Player Titles - Ideas, Suggestions, & Comments
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Psyche he/theySurvivorhe/they
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10874
- Joined: April 28, 2011
- Pronoun: he/they
Player Titles - Ideas, Suggestions, & Comments
This thread has been created to allow community members to make suggestions, discuss ideas, and to comment on the current Title Fairy procedures.
Keep it civil! This is for productive discussion, not snarky takedowns.
Understand that while your input is definitely valued, ultimately the current Title Fairy has to make the call that it believes is in the best interest of the Title Fairy institution and MS. It is not a democracy.
This thread is not for nominations for player titles. Go hereto make a nomination of a player.-
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Psyche he/theySurvivorhe/they
- Survivor
- Survivor
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So, here are my plans.
I think titles matter, and that titles should continue to matter. This system I really respect derives its value, I think, from the value of what it produces. Yeah, they're just small text strings, but they're small text strings that follow a user wherever they go on this forum and are specially crafted to hold a lot of meaning to a lot of people. Deep to their core, they're nice, shiny gifts, given from a community to a user. I think the Title Fairy's mission is to preserve this community-centered process and these high standards.My overall strategy for preserving and building this institution will be to emphasize title standards on the one hand, and to help users more frequently meet them on the other.Better titles, more titles.
Titles should not just be gifts, but really nice gifts. Higher standards alone are straightforwardly implemented (I can just reject titles I don't think are good)! But with this emphasis alone, there will merely be fewer titles, not more good titles. Is anyone really better off? Title quality is therefore not the only issue; there's a fundamental scarcity. There's a number of users who the community would probably agree deserve good titles, but the work required for producing them is too difficult to match demand. I have several ideas for improving title productivity while simultaneously emphasizing title standards:
-It's easier for a lot of people to reach the goalposts if they know exactly where those goalposts are. Right now, to some extent it's clear to scummers what doesn't count as a good title (eg username puns), but more ambiguous whatClearer, crowd-sourced, more positive standards for good titles.does. I will try to workshop with the community a set of positive guidelines (ie best practices) for good titles so that users can get a clear suggestive sense of what a community is looking for in title nominations. Of course, a problem with specifying standards for titles is that they can be constraining. My plan to avoid this might be to emphasize a diversity of viewpoints on how good titles stand out, so people feel empowered to assert their own standards in dialogue with everyone else's. Or maybe can be communicated in a less prescriptive manner (ie a pool of the site's favorite titles annotated with explanations for their success that can be used as exemplars).
-I will do stuff to make the Title Fairy subforum more exciting and well-known around the site, being a bit theatrical, creating 'events' based around titles, and actively inviting people to participate in title nominations/discussions. The workshopping I mentioned above is one example of this, but I have others. I might organize a poll or other game to highlight forgotten-yet-really-good titles, or to sort how much the community values different titles. Maybe I'll recognize people for a record of particularly successful title nomination(s), encouraging them and potential emulators. With respect to all of these ideas, I'll start small and avoid concurrence to make sure things run smoothly and no crowding out of activity happens elsewhere on the site. But still, lots can be done.Facilitated community involvement and a more active subforum.
-I like to code stuff, and I'm really interested in understanding thoroughly how good titles are made. I will try to produce tools to facilitate this process. For example, I mentioned this before in the old title thread, suggesting the possibility of inventing a pun-title generator that takes a list of or a single "reference" to be made about a user (like, for example, "Rap") and performs a series of synonym/homophone and idiom searches to produce an exhaustive list of idiomatic puns on the original reference(s). Of course, if they're interested in a non-pun-based title the tool might not be as useful. However, for a subset of users who really want to nominate someone for some reason but can't quite find a clever way to phrase it, a tool like this could be a great resource, without ever really decentering the users' place or the community's place in the title nomination process. This and other resources might not need to be so computationally intensive, but the same strategy holds true: facilitate user creativity by giving them certain kinds of information.Programmatically designed tools and other resources for brainstorming titles.
There's probably more I could do. If you have more ideas for initiatives that serve my general strategy, or wanna talk through my general strategy, here we are. In the short term, the title subforum will be much like it's always been, but with me approving/rejecting/moderating noms. But in my free time, tinkering lots of tinkering.-
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McMenno they/themOne For Aren't-We-Allthey/them
- One For Aren't-We-All
- One For Aren't-We-All
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Aristophanes He/HimMr. Blue SkyHe/Him
- Mr. Blue Sky
- Mr. Blue Sky
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- Location: Hiding from Actual Cannibal Shia Lebeouf
Pssst
There's no link to the Fairy Nom thread here...
Just thought I'd mention itHalf meme, Half real, All Aristophanes ;)- JingleAri has appeared way too competent for me to even pretend to know what they're thinking
- MooseEatsBear on discord mafiait wouldn’t be an ari sig unless it takes up half the screen on mobile - Vonflare-
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Aristophanes He/HimMr. Blue SkyHe/Him
- Mr. Blue Sky
- Mr. Blue Sky
- Posts: 17170
- Joined: December 30, 2014
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: Hiding from Actual Cannibal Shia Lebeouf
Also, just read through and I love your ideas
I'll gladly help hash things out with you here!Half meme, Half real, All Aristophanes ;)- JingleAri has appeared way too competent for me to even pretend to know what they're thinking
- MooseEatsBear on discord mafiait wouldn’t be an ari sig unless it takes up half the screen on mobile - Vonflare-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
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Update titles wiki if you can
or bribe someone to do that for youFalse tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Psyche he/theySurvivorhe/they
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10874
- Joined: April 28, 2011
- Pronoun: he/they
If you do anything too fancy to the title wiki, it will stop you, as it takes up too much memory or something. I'd like a find a way to clean the page up while keeping things simple. Maybe format it like this: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases ?-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18753
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
I think it will just warn you but will let you post it anyway?False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18753
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
and that format is awsomeFalse tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Davsto He/HimFarce of HabitHe/Him
- Farce of Habit
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Okay I have a big bugbear with certain titles which I think that, 90% of the time, are kinda crap. Don't get me wrong - sometimes they're great, there are exception to every rule - but usually they're really not.
Titles based on a single, recent event.
I think that maybe something cool and interesting happened, and people clamour to give a title for it, but the actual thing isn't that memorable and within a few weeks it's no longer a big thing and the title is outdated within a month or two, when titles are supposed to be some longstanding thing that endures for a long time without becoming dated.
I'm not going to say that they should be stopped outright, but I think certain steps could be taken to reduce them, or at least make sure only the really good ones of actually memorable events survive.
My personal idea is that a title based on a recent event (within the last week or from a game which ended within the last week) should be delayed once they gain enough popularity - and then be reintroduced by the Title Fairy within a week or so, and then made to go through the nthing process from scratch. I suppose there's a minor issue of slowing the process down, but I think it would genuinely help boost the quality, because if an event isn't memorable enough to be worth giving a title for just one week after it happens, then it definitely isn't worth a title in the first place.-
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McMenno they/themOne For Aren't-We-Allthey/them
- One For Aren't-We-All
- One For Aren't-We-All
- Posts: 5159
- Joined: February 18, 2015
- Pronoun: they/them
- Location: In spaaaace
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Firebringer Trail Blazer
- Trail Blazer
- Trail Blazer
- Posts: 52976
- Joined: June 28, 2015
- Location: woofbringer
Examples?
Show"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown-
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Davsto He/HimFarce of HabitHe/Him
- Farce of Habit
- Farce of Habit
- Posts: 5279
- Joined: June 29, 2015
- Pronoun: He/Him
lalalducks - best newcrummer
CuddlyCaucasian - Professor of being a dog
animorpherv1 - honey trap
Shadoweh - Idol Hands
Pine - In Your Head (I think this was just based on one game, right?)
Okay, maybe not 90%, but I'd say that the first and third of those titles are genuinely bad as well as already quite outdated, and the second is pretty weak too.
They're not always bad, but I feel that they're just inherently lower quality than other titles, and yet more likely to get nths as people get all excited and motivated about this thrilling thing what just happened.-
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McMenno they/themOne For Aren't-We-Allthey/them
- One For Aren't-We-All
- One For Aren't-We-All
- Posts: 5159
- Joined: February 18, 2015
- Pronoun: they/them
- Location: In spaaaace
not based on a recent eventIn post 12, Davsto wrote:Shadoweh - Idol Hands-
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Firebringer Trail Blazer
- Trail Blazer
- Trail Blazer
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- Joined: June 28, 2015
- Location: woofbringer
Idol hands is based of multiple survivor games as far as I know.In post 12, Davsto wrote:lalalducks - best newcrummer
CuddlyCaucasian - Professor of being a dog
animorpherv1 - honey trap
Shadoweh - Idol Hands
Pine - In Your Head (I think this was just based on one game, right?)
And in your head is from two mafia games and I think a third one is being planned
I agree that ducks title hasn't aged well and I don't think cuddly will either, but animorph I think was a big site thing.Show"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown-
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Davsto He/HimFarce of HabitHe/Him
- Farce of Habit
- Farce of Habit
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and that's one of the good ones, which if anything helps my pointIn post 13, McMenno wrote:
not based on a recent eventIn post 12, Davsto wrote:Shadoweh - Idol Hands-
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Creature Solve This Game
- Solve This Game
- Solve This Game
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Davsto He/HimFarce of HabitHe/Him
- Farce of Habit
- Farce of Habit
- Posts: 5279
- Joined: June 29, 2015
- Pronoun: He/Him
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Psyche he/theySurvivorhe/they
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10874
- Joined: April 28, 2011
- Pronoun: he/they
I think it's a decent idea, but I want to find a way to implement it that's minimally obtrusive or elaborate. Ideally users should be able to decide for themselves if a title will stand the test of time or not. Or at least I should be able to make that call if they can't. But yeah, people can get starry-eyed.
Maybe I'll come up with a possible Step 3 decision option besides approval/rejection - maybe call it "Limbo" - where I require titles I'm ambivalent or concerned about to jump a higher hurdle that's specified according to the situation (maybe extra nths, a waiting period, more evidence, etc). And a special case of that could be event-based titles potentially too soon after the referenced event?-
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Aristophanes He/HimMr. Blue SkyHe/Him
- Mr. Blue Sky
- Mr. Blue Sky
- Posts: 17170
- Joined: December 30, 2014
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- Location: Hiding from Actual Cannibal Shia Lebeouf
At least three of these are based on things I remember and think we're worthy events, and a couple are based on more than one example or instance of things/have a deeper meaning to the characters at play.In post 12, Davsto wrote:lalalducks - best newcrummer
CuddlyCaucasian - Professor of being a dog
animorpherv1 - honey trap
Shadoweh - Idol Hands
Pine - In Your Head
Yes, I find 2 unremarkable now. Not saying which two.Half meme, Half real, All Aristophanes ;)- JingleAri has appeared way too competent for me to even pretend to know what they're thinking
- MooseEatsBear on discord mafiait wouldn’t be an ari sig unless it takes up half the screen on mobile - Vonflare-
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Aristophanes He/HimMr. Blue SkyHe/Him
- Mr. Blue Sky
- Mr. Blue Sky
- Posts: 17170
- Joined: December 30, 2014
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: Hiding from Actual Cannibal Shia Lebeouf
Make a council of title holders to decide if a title is good after the general public has decided?
Like, 5 Nth in the Fairy thread, then some sort of consensus from a higher council in the 48 hours, then you give the approval?
This would remove some starry eyed results and placate the calls for "only titled members deciding who gets titles" crowd.Half meme, Half real, All Aristophanes ;)- JingleAri has appeared way too competent for me to even pretend to know what they're thinking
- MooseEatsBear on discord mafiait wouldn’t be an ari sig unless it takes up half the screen on mobile - Vonflare-
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Creature Solve This Game
- Solve This Game
- Solve This Game
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- Joined: January 26, 2016
- Location: Lands of Fire
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Davsto He/HimFarce of HabitHe/Him
- Farce of Habit
- Farce of Habit
- Posts: 5279
- Joined: June 29, 2015
- Pronoun: He/Him
wait people were actually serious about thatIn post 20, Aristophanes wrote:"only titled members deciding who gets titles" crowd.
i was under the impression that it was entirely a joke-
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Aristophanes He/HimMr. Blue SkyHe/Him
- Mr. Blue Sky
- Mr. Blue Sky
- Posts: 17170
- Joined: December 30, 2014
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: Hiding from Actual Cannibal Shia Lebeouf
Well they'd be handpicked by Psyche and reviewed to be good title Pixies willing to be unbiased in their reviewsHalf meme, Half real, All Aristophanes ;)- JingleAri has appeared way too competent for me to even pretend to know what they're thinking
- MooseEatsBear on discord mafiait wouldn’t be an ari sig unless it takes up half the screen on mobile - Vonflare-
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Aristophanes He/HimMr. Blue SkyHe/Him
- Mr. Blue Sky
- Mr. Blue Sky
- Posts: 17170
- Joined: December 30, 2014
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: Hiding from Actual Cannibal Shia Lebeouf
(I might be mentioning it just to show it is ridiculous, but it was a suggestion toon and therefore it is not officially noted and discussed )In post 22, Davsto wrote:
wait people were actually serious about thatIn post 20, Aristophanes wrote:"only titled members deciding who gets titles" crowd.
i was under the impression that it was entirely a jokeHalf meme, Half real, All Aristophanes ;)- JingleAri has appeared way too competent for me to even pretend to know what they're thinking
- MooseEatsBear on discord mafiait wouldn’t be an ari sig unless it takes up half the screen on mobile - Vonflare
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