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In post 415, Not_Mafia wrote:I bet May steps down within 72 hours, who wants an avatar bet?

i'll take it. i'm risky.

One week?

fine

yeah i think it's overwhelmingly likely a tory/dup confidence/supply deal gets worked out, maybe a tiny chance of a new election but that's all that can happen i think

In post 417, zoraster wrote:yeah. not taking that.

i still win my bet, though. doesn't really feel like i should but... whatever.

You won fair and square. If I wanted to offer a less extreme bet I could have.

Labour – 277 (53.5%)
Conservative – 76 (14.7%)
UKIP – 69 (13.3%)
Greens – 46 (8.9%)
Lib Dems – 38 (7.4%)

The revolution begins at my school.

This should be enough for jezza to stick around and fuck over the tories which tbh im happy with for this election

are we not gonna get a SINGLE scalp this morning come on

NIGHT ALL. THIS HAS BEEN WILD.

Kinda pipe dreaming here, probably, but what if Corbyn offers to head a national unity government, with ministers from all parties, and with the specific aim of negotiating a soft Brexit (I.e. negotiate the best deal that maintains single market access), with a guarantee that there'll be a new general election in 2019 after the deal is agreed?

He has an openness to his approach that makes me think he could make that work, unlike May. And if an arrangement like that was agreed on, it would give UK a good platform for negotiations with the EU.

I wonder if any/enough pro-Remain Tory MPs would consider that option. Cos the alternative of the Tories trying to push for a harder Brexit with DUP support seems clearly less stable.

SNP won NE Fife by 2 (TWO) votes. Incredible.

In post 435, imaginality wrote:Kinda pipe dreaming here, probably, but what if Corbyn offers to head a national unity government, with ministers from all parties, and with the specific aim of negotiating a soft Brexit (I.e. negotiate the best deal that maintains single market access), with a guarantee that there'll be a new general election in 2019 after the deal is agreed?

He has an openness to his approach that makes me think he could make that work, unlike May. And if an arrangement like that was agreed on, it would give UK a good platform for negotiations with the EU.

I wonder if any/enough pro-Remain Tory MPs would consider that option. Cos the alternative of the Tories trying to push for a harder Brexit with DUP support seems clearly less stable.

That's a terrible plan long term.
No one will be happy after Brexit. It's going to suck no matter who negotiates it, and it's best to hang that around the conservatives necks instead of taking all the crap for it when you didn't even want it in the first place.

In post 437, shaft.ed wrote:

In post 435, imaginality wrote:Kinda pipe dreaming here, probably, but what if Corbyn offers to head a national unity government, with ministers from all parties, and with the specific aim of negotiating a soft Brexit (I.e. negotiate the best deal that maintains single market access), with a guarantee that there'll be a new general election in 2019 after the deal is agreed?

He has an openness to his approach that makes me think he could make that work, unlike May. And if an arrangement like that was agreed on, it would give UK a good platform for negotiations with the EU.

I wonder if any/enough pro-Remain Tory MPs would consider that option. Cos the alternative of the Tories trying to push for a harder Brexit with DUP support seems clearly less stable.

That's a terrible plan long term.
No one will be happy after Brexit. It's going to suck no matter who negotiates it, and it's best to hang that around the conservatives necks instead of taking all the crap for it when you didn't even want it in the first place.

That's a very politically minded move. If you feel you are just actually capable of getting a better deal and care about the country, you might want to head it up.

con...grats? idk

oh good, the DUP are here to save the day. Now we have a PM who votes against gay rights aligned with a party who feel being gay is unnatural and a sin.

In post 438, chamber wrote:

In post 437, shaft.ed wrote:

In post 435, imaginality wrote:Kinda pipe dreaming here, probably, but what if Corbyn offers to head a national unity government, with ministers from all parties, and with the specific aim of negotiating a soft Brexit (I.e. negotiate the best deal that maintains single market access), with a guarantee that there'll be a new general election in 2019 after the deal is agreed?

He has an openness to his approach that makes me think he could make that work, unlike May. And if an arrangement like that was agreed on, it would give UK a good platform for negotiations with the EU.

I wonder if any/enough pro-Remain Tory MPs would consider that option. Cos the alternative of the Tories trying to push for a harder Brexit with DUP support seems clearly less stable.

That's a terrible plan long term.
No one will be happy after Brexit. It's going to suck no matter who negotiates it, and it's best to hang that around the conservatives necks instead of taking all the crap for it when you didn't even want it in the first place.

That's a very politically minded move. If you feel you are just actually capable of getting a better deal and care about the country, you might want to head it up.

I don't think it matters who negotiates the deal, its going to be harmful either way
it's definitely going to annoy people either way, because life is going to be more complicated on the day to day and that will all get stuck on whoever is the face of negotiations.

In post 437, shaft.ed wrote:That's a terrible plan long term.
No one will be happy after Brexit. It's going to suck no matter who negotiates it, and it's best to hang that around the conservatives necks instead of taking all the crap for it when you didn't even want it in the first place.

If you are in politics but don't want to actually lead the country, what the hell are you doing? In the rest of the coming decade you aren't going to make as much as an impact as you would in the coming 2 years. Sure you could look away the moment it's getting tough then whine that your opponents messed it all up. All you've managed is help your country to shit from your point of view, and shown your voters that you don't have the guts to make tough decisions when they are asked from you.

Now Corbyn could never lead a government of national unity. He's barely able to lead his own party. So it does sound like a pipe dream.

I've been reading a lot of material from actual UK citizens reacting to this election. For every "Wow I was so wrong about Corbyn" there's a butthurt Blairite saying "Corbyn is still crap and unelectable he just benefited from Tory incompetence."

I don't buy it.

Now I'm just an American looking in, but the Conservatives made the biggest dividends from SNP slumping and UKIP imploding, yet Labour still increased their total share of the vote by . They only trailed by of the vote and yet the Tories still have 50+ more seats. The Conservatives are clearly being propped up by the electoral system - the British left mostly united around Labour.

Blairites will say "this was his chance to be electable and they still didn't get a majority" but that's crap. This is clearly indicative of a leftward shift taking hold. Such a notion is clearly ignoring that the Conservatives get dozens and dozens of free seats from the rural regions.

The biggest anomaly for me as a foreign is how the Conservatives made such gains in Scotland. Several Scottish districts that voted Labour or LibDem as recently as 2010 and fell to the SNP surge between 2010-2015 suddenly went Tory. Personally I can only explain it as from the uncertainty over Brexit - can a native help clear things up for me here? If that's the case then I would expect Labour to make even more gains in 2020, especially in Scotland.

Sturgeon seeks to drive Scottish people further with another independence referendum. And foolish people would rather vote Tory (whose entire manifesto revolved around the referendum I feel) than SNP (who aside from independence do have other pledges). I don't think I agree with independence but I sure as hell would rather be independent than run by the Tories/DUP.

People seem to forget you can vote no in the referendum, and I actually think another referendum would see another no vote. Especially after last night.

In post 443, Wraith wrote:Blairite

Blairite!

In post 444, Mac wrote:Sturgeon seeks to drive Scottish people further with another independence referendum. And foolish people would rather vote Tory (whose entire manifesto revolved around the referendum I feel) than SNP (who aside from independence do have other pledges). I don't think I agree with independence but I sure as hell would rather be independent than run by the Tories/DUP.

People seem to forget you can vote no in the referendum, and I actually think another referendum would see another no vote. Especially after last night.

That's actually shocking to me. After the Brexit vote succeeded I expected huge backlash in Scotland and demands for another independence referendum. I was under the impression the No vote only won the original referendum largely because of the economic uncertainty of leaving the UK and the EU and having to re-apply for membership.

In post 440, Mac wrote:oh good, the DUP are here to save the day. Now we have a PM who votes against gay rights aligned with a party who feel being gay is unnatural and a sin.

dw they know its career suicide to push through anti-lgbt legislation. although may is stupid enough to try anyway. in which case they get completely fucked over.

In post 443, Wraith wrote:I've been reading a lot of material from actual UK citizens reacting to this election. For every "Wow I was so wrong about Corbyn" there's a butthurt Blairite saying "Corbyn is still crap and unelectable he just benefited from Tory incompetence."

I don't buy it.

Now I'm just an American looking in, but the Conservatives made the biggest dividends from SNP slumping and UKIP imploding, yet Labour still increased their total share of the vote by

10 freaking %

. They only trailed by

2.4%

of the vote and yet the Tories still have 50+ more seats. The Conservatives are clearly being propped up by the electoral system - the British left mostly united around Labour.

Blairites will say "this was his chance to be electable and they still didn't get a majority" but that's crap. This is clearly indicative of a leftward shift taking hold. Such a notion is clearly ignoring that the Conservatives get dozens and dozens of free seats from the rural regions.

The biggest anomaly for me as a foreign is how the Conservatives made such gains in Scotland. Several Scottish districts that voted Labour or LibDem as recently as 2010 and fell to the SNP surge between 2010-2015 suddenly went Tory. Personally I can only explain it as from the uncertainty over Brexit - can a native help clear things up for me here? If that's the case then I would expect Labour to make even more gains in 2020, especially in Scotland.

Ruth Davidson has a lot to do with it.
also some blairites e.g. Jack Straw are potentially supporting Corbyn

I imagine Brexit negotiations take on an even greater emphasis on Northern Ireland.

In post 446, Wraith wrote:

In post 444, Mac wrote:Sturgeon seeks to drive Scottish people further with another independence referendum. And foolish people would rather vote Tory (whose entire manifesto revolved around the referendum I feel) than SNP (who aside from independence do have other pledges). I don't think I agree with independence but I sure as hell would rather be independent than run by the Tories/DUP.

People seem to forget you can vote no in the referendum, and I actually think another referendum would see another no vote. Especially after last night.

That's actually shocking to me. After the Brexit vote succeeded I expected huge backlash in Scotland and

more

demands for another independence referendum. I was under the impression the No vote only won the original referendum largely because of the economic uncertainty of leaving the UK and the EU and having to re-apply for membership.

Referendum after referendum is having it's toll on people who can't be bothered with the nation being divided again and, to be honest, it has had the same effect on me only I didn't stoop to voting the Tories.