Mini 1918: Paint Mafia Threequel! Game Over!

[Bomberman]

Wow jee who would've fucking guessed it.

Vote: Varsoon

Oop

[Aristophanes]

Hey Bomber, your alt is showing

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Bomber

Again, you made this easy for me.

[Varsoon]

Assuming you killed Max because they were voting you yesterday but Aristo was still up in the air?

[Bomberman]

I wouldn't answer that even if I was scum, therefore I don't know why you're creating a false dichotomy.

[Bomberman]

It doesn't really matter though. My vote goes back on you. I'll answer any questions you have aristo.

Vote: Varsoon

[Aristophanes]

I was unprepared for Lylo, so allow me to read up after work tonight and return with questions. In the meantine, a towncase for yourselves and a scumcase for your opponent will aid me greatly, if that is possible

[Varsoon]

Scumcase for Bomber:

To me, scum is almost certainly on the Raya wagon, out of Fro99er, aptil, MaxwellPuckett, Bomberman, and Havo.
Which makes my skin crawl that we colorflipped Penguin instead of one of those suspects, and it drives my paranoia more because fro99er lead that push for the colorflip.
Where this gets unnerving is looking at people who were complicit with colorflipping OUTSIDE of the Raya wagon: MaxwellPuckett, Bomberman, Havo, Fro99er.
Literally the whole Raya wagon with the exception of Aptil, who was voting for Maxwell.

What does this mean to me?
We should be most critical of Bomberman/Havo.
If we find scum in Max/Aptil, it's very likely the other is town.
Fro99er continues to be an enigma to me and why they color checked outside of the Raya wagon confounds me.

To add on to that: Bomber's been on pretty much every bad town mislynch and kept a wide lynch pool. When confronted, Bomber AtE's and acts like they are crumbling under the pressure to perform as town.
Furthermore, Bomber's constantly been trying to get people paranoid of my slot all game while not dedicating a case or wagon there. :/

Towncase for me:

@Bomber: What

still

makes me town? I didn't realize I had to constantly

prove

I'm town. Pretty sure I don't have to do anything to have my alignment. If you want proof for why I'm still here despite being a good player (this is still news to me), look no further than your own play and who was killed so far. Your paranoia of me, if you're town, has driven you to playing in a really self-destructive way. It's likely why town!bomber gets painted and town!bomber gets flipped, all to drive that paranoia while keeping as many lynch options on the table. Now look at scum's kills. Infinity (a PR), JJH (necessary kill after Aptil's scumgambit), fro99er (another PR), and Titus (confirmed town). I can bet you dollars to donuts that if I was colorflipped early or had either of those PRs, I'd be dead and one of those folks would be alive, likely in the same position I'm in now--left alive because scum can do precisely that.

To add on to that: Last night, the kill could've been on me, Max, or Aristo. If I was killed, Max would very likely still be townread by Aristo and Max was already voting Bomber. Bomber gets lynched and loses.
If Aristo was killed, Max (who is townread in this situation) goes back to voting Bomber and I vote Bomber as I was doing. Bomber gets lynched and loses.
With the Max kill, the same dichotomy of Varsoon vs Bomber exists, but because I'm not nearly the universal townread that Max was, the lynch could go either way.
If I am scum, there's no reason for me to kill Max over Aristo, since Max was already dedicated to a Bomber lynch.

[Bomberman]

I've made clear statements that I felt it was you/Havo, the part of the problem was that I was unsure on which of you needed to go first. The problem with your play and the reason I have been suspecting you throughout this whole game is because your play is so calculated. it all started with what happened with Aptil, and the events of N2. In my head, I felt there was no way Havo would be able to pull something off like that without the help of someone more resourceful. Everything you've done that has lead up to this has been planned, from your phrasing, encouragement of activity, and vote patterns. This is just a small tidbit but I have more to go over once a bit later.

[Bomberman]

While it's on my mind: The way you've played this game, from the very start is a case of too good to be true. Townies have faults, but you have been playing in a way that seemingly does not have them. Even in the mislynches and wrong reads that you've proclaimed, nobody bothered to question or consider those ideals because of the way you presented yourself. Why is that you hold me at arm's length the whole game, trying to address problems such as activity without being forthright yourself? It's evident in your posting that you only serve to look the part and not actually do what is needed to be town. You never stuck your neck out throughout this whole game nor considered your own mistakes, and your thought processes only filled in minor gaps without really going into the way you felt about things. I remembered when I initially felt something was off and stated that I felt that it was strange that you were not killed over infinity, despite it being a case of WIFOM. I think that your experience and credibility was your own downfall for me, because logic persists that the way you interacted with TwoFace and was on his wagon dictated that you weren't aligned with him in assumption.

That's not the case here though. You clearly set yourself from the moment you were posturing about previous games and the mechanics. This is not the point I am trying to make here, rather I just want to point it out.

I have made mistakes. I have been on the wrong lynch. I've been sloppy in some regards, and maybe not too consistent. I was a walking contradiction at times and I had a poor grasp of the mechanics, needing to have things explained to me. I mislynched Havo and I accept that, but I knew that dwelling on that fact wouldn't matter if it I couldn't correct myself for a change. I could've been a lot more forceful myself, but it's very hard when you feel like nobody is listening. I opted to sit and wait for things to happen, only to find us reaching deadline again and again. I'm not really the type of player who assumes the leader role, but I do kick myself at times for not giving it a chance. I have displayed cowardice for the reasons I stated before, where I simply just didn't want to be wrong again. I have had a conscience about my decisions, some even killing my motivation. I felt very exasperated. I can't say that I wished I was lynched yesterday but I surely was about to accept a loss, at the expense of a last ditch effort. I'm sure this can come off as AtE and purely emotional, but to deny the fact that emotions don't exist in Mafia is pretty foolish if you ask me.

That's why I couldn't townread you, that's why I always had you as null. That's why I suspected you in the back of mind. Nothing you said felt like it had emotion. Like it had some sort of meaning, and that it was important to you.

[Varsoon]

For most the game, I thought you were town. I had to readjust and re-read and when I did, you ended up near the bottom of a list of people likely to be scum.
If you're trying to uphold that my infallibility is somehow equal to me being scum, you're disregarding the people who've voted me and the flak I've taken for having controversial opinions and pushes in this game.
There's no excuse for you, as town, to have allowed so many mislynches to go through. That alone should be enough to prove you're scum to anyone.

What really bothers me is that it's clear that you half-assed your way through the game. I can't recall any hard stances you've taken or any major game moments that you were a part of besides when shit wasn't working out. You've drug your feet and gotten by and it's incredibly frustrating that your final defense, when you're finally at LYLO, to get out of the loss you've had coming your way since your buddy Aptil's gambit fell through, is to just continue to insist that scum-you wouldn't be so incompetent.

It's especially fucking annoying that you're propping up competency as a scum feature and lackluster play as a town one, not just because it's NAI as fuck, but because it's a fucking huge problem on this site. You sowed town disinterest and now you're trying to uphold that you're town for doing so? Please, eat rope.

[Varsoon]

P-EDIT: There's no excuse for you, as town, to have allowed so many mislynches and NO LYNCHES to go through.

[Varsoon]

How many no-lynches have we had? Two? Three?
And you can't try to convince me that you 'just were not around' at the time.
You swung the Raya mislynch the second you got the chance to.
You were complicit on every mislynch since then and abstained wholly when the wagons were between you and other players--all the way up until the end here, where a lynch on me yesterday would've won you the game.

[Varsoon]

It's no surprise that game interest tanked the second both your buddies were gone and you were the only one left.
You ducked out and let town go at it against each other.

[Bomberman]

For most the game, I thought you were town. I had to readjust and re-read and when I did, you ended up near the bottom of a list of people likely to be scum.
If you're trying to uphold that my infallibility is somehow equal to me being scum, you're disregarding the people who've voted me and the flak I've taken for having controversial opinions and pushes in this game.
There's no excuse for you, as town, to have allowed so many mislynches to go through. That alone should be enough to prove you're scum to anyone.

Who else voted you? The instances are few and far between, and your slot always seemed to escape pressure even when I was pursuing it and trying to tell everyone how I felt about you. The fact of the matter is that I don't have the established credibility that i'd like, and it's my own fault for merely acting complacent when people weren't listening. I find it strange how when I yelled out in the distance (hypothetically) you were the only one to mostly reply to me. There was many instances where I was like 'man, I fucking hate how things are going' and you would play yes man and agree with me, but the fact that you were the only one who really gave me any sort of feedback says a lot about the state of the game. Apathy was plaguing us and I fell into that state many times, which included how the Raya hammer happened. I merely accepted it because fro99er had reins and was being the most loud and obnoxious, which I then felt was scumspect because of the fact he lead us down the wrong path twice.

You never really had to do that however because your only goal was to get through another phase, but I never felt you really learned or progressed based on what you knew. Even players like Apricity who admitted to be playing poorly at the least showed humility, and while scum can very much do this, it's a lot different based on the environment we were in. I just never felt that same kind of emotional output from you, which is to say that you didn't ponder on why the state of the game became as it did. You always veered your head to say the right thing at the right time, but then again you too have been 'wrong', though the difference is that it doesn't matter to you.

How many no-lynches have we had? Two? Three?
And you can't try to convince me that you 'just were not around' at the time.
You swung the Raya mislynch the second you got the chance to.
You were complicit on every mislynch since then and abstained wholly when the wagons were between you and other players--all the way up until the end here, where a lynch on me yesterday would've won you the game.

Raya happened on circumstance, nothing more and nothing less. She was in a bad spot and fro99er was breathing down my neck and I really didn't have the gall to disagree, hoping to use the information I got out of her flip instead of putting my foot down. I didn't really townread Raya all too strongly and felt like it wasn't a lost asset, so I did what was needed in order to avoid NL. The other cases were never my fault, and I always tried to put my vote down as deadline began to creep up. To say I swung the Raya lynch is a complete stretch of what happened, my hands were completely tied. You can go look at my posts and see how I always remained true to what I said, despite times where I waffled between you and Havo and numbers began to decline. I tried to gamesolve where I could and talked to Havo many times, and stayed focused on the people I suspected.

[Varsoon]

Being wrong does matter to me.
I was wrong about Havo.
I lead that. I own that.
Havo kept telling me it wasn't them.
No amount of me blaming myself over fucking that up will change what happened.
But there's just no way I'm going to flop over and not play as best I can to win now that it's only me against what is clearly just a singular person who could possibly be scum.

I've been voted by almost every player in the game at least once, iirc.

[Aristophanes]

I'll read these cases at work today. 2 hours of phone calls took me awqy from this last night and I apologize for that!

[Aristophanes]

If you want proof for why I'm still here despite being a good player (this is still news to me)

The way you've played this game, from the very start is a case of too good to be true. Townies have faults, but you have been playing in a way that seemingly does not have them.

The above is why, Varsoon!

[Aristophanes]

I have made mistakes. I have been on the wrong lynch. I've been sloppy in some regards, and maybe not too consistent. I was a walking contradiction at times and I had a poor grasp of the mechanics, needing to have things explained to me. I mislynched Havo and I accept that, but I knew that dwelling on that fact wouldn't matter if it I couldn't correct myself for a change. I could've been a lot more forceful myself, but it's very hard when you feel like nobody is listening. I opted to sit and wait for things to happen, only to find us reaching deadline again and again. I'm not really the type of player who assumes the leader role, but I do kick myself at times for not giving it a chance. I have displayed cowardice for the reasons I stated before, where I simply just didn't want to be wrong again. I have had a conscience about my decisions, some even killing my motivation. I felt very exasperated. I can't say that I wished I was lynched yesterday but I surely was about to accept a loss, at the expense of a last ditch effort. I'm sure this can come off as AtE and purely emotional, but to deny the fact that emotions don't exist in Mafia is pretty foolish if you ask me.

I really liked this for town at the beginning of the paragraph, but by the end I didn't. Started out self aware, but it ended in too weird a way. Plus, I've seen posts like this before from scum plenty of times.

Also, I liked Varsoon's casing post quite a lot!

I'll continue reading.

[Aristophanes]

There's no excuse for you, as town, to have allowed so many mislynches to go through. That alone should be enough to prove you're scum to anyone.

It happens, man. I don't think this is very valid.

[Aristophanes]

Bomber's narrative of Varsoon as unemotional scum sucks.
Varsoon's playing victim a little here which also sucks.

I've now read all of today's posts.

Time for a quick Iso Dive before work.

[Aristophanes]

Time for a quick Iso Dive before work.

I lied. This will come tonight, likely with a final decision and hammer

[Varsoon]

I'm glad you're taking the time to read over things, Aristo. I've seen a lot of conf-town in your position just go with a gut quick-hammer and the game feels cheapened for it. Then again, I'm assuming that's also why you're still alive instead of Max. :/

Regardless, please keep the deadline in mind. I can't be critical of Bomber for not being around for lynches without also telling you that a lot of why we're in this predicament is because you weren't around to make a decision during the last day we had. Then again, you not showing up has given you more time to consider the options, but this time the deadline really is important and this time Max can't give any PoV.

Deadline is: (expired on 2017-07-22 09:00:00)
Just set an alarm or something so you can be around before it, is all. I do that all the time for my games, especially when I'm modding them and I need to flip the game phase before people get all frustrated in twilight.

[Varsoon]

I'm just tired of being left around in LYLO in games that I feel I'm doing good in. A long time ago, I realized it was often because scum had me pinned and I wouldn't be able to perform late-game, or that they knew I'd fall for their gambits, or I was already buddied, etc. Which, of course, lead to me being really critical of myself when I got to those clutch game states, which also weakened my play.

Just wish scum had the sense to off me early, like they did in the last game I was town in, where I was identified as too dangerous for scum to keep around because I was already making cases against 2/3 their team. Then again, the kills this game have been kind of locked down due to the paint mechanic, and there was never a really huge push (from scum) to get my color revealed here.

Regardless, if you need anything, let me know. I'll be around, but I don't think we gain much from me walling up against Bomber any more than I have.

[Bomberman]

I have made mistakes. I have been on the wrong lynch. I've been sloppy in some regards, and maybe not too consistent. I was a walking contradiction at times and I had a poor grasp of the mechanics, needing to have things explained to me. I mislynched Havo and I accept that, but I knew that dwelling on that fact wouldn't matter if it I couldn't correct myself for a change. I could've been a lot more forceful myself, but it's very hard when you feel like nobody is listening. I opted to sit and wait for things to happen, only to find us reaching deadline again and again. I'm not really the type of player who assumes the leader role, but I do kick myself at times for not giving it a chance. I have displayed cowardice for the reasons I stated before, where I simply just didn't want to be wrong again. I have had a conscience about my decisions, some even killing my motivation. I felt very exasperated. I can't say that I wished I was lynched yesterday but I surely was about to accept a loss, at the expense of a last ditch effort. I'm sure this can come off as AtE and purely emotional, but to deny the fact that emotions don't exist in Mafia is pretty foolish if you ask me.

I really liked this for town at the beginning of the paragraph, but by the end I didn't. Started out self aware, but it ended in too weird a way. Plus, I've seen posts like this before from scum plenty of times.

Also, I liked Varsoon's casing post quite a lot!

I'll continue reading.

The last statement was to further exemplify how varsoon's unemotional state doesn't bode well for town behavior. Not all town are the same and the way Varsoon is playing is not isolated by any means, but good scum know their best bet is to try and emulate townplay. My argument I was making is that townies are more likely to slip up and make mistakes, even post things that could be considered scummy, while actual scum are more likely to try and cover all their bases. There's a lack of honesty in his play, and it all felt too calculated and planned for it to be genuine. Does this make clearer sense? I agree with varsoon that walling against my crossvote isn't exactly productive, but I also believe that varsoon is a type of player that would gladly do it and fight on those terms. Those terms in itself are the foundation of my 'case', if you really want to call it that.