Mafiascum.net

In post 399, nancy wrote:LESBIANS LESBIANS LESBIANS

LESBIANS

In post 351, Ginngie wrote:"The paragon of mafiascum is lynchbait"

>_>

<_<

Is that really what story you want too sell?

He certainly wasn't before but he lost a good deal of his cool since he got that award.

In post 393, Imperium wrote:

In post 272, Polar Vortex wrote:Directly confronting them does show a townier mindset than complaining about them and calling them scum.

I don't think the word you're looking for here is "townier", just that there's a productive approach and a not so productive approach here.

I mean in comparison, it is townier than the negative approach I thought he did at first. In itself it's just ok/not scummy.

This feels too easy

I dont really care that it is but it's just leagues different from part 1

I'm feeling pretty good about Imperium. They make a good point on Caryatid.

Sounds like you've done a lot of making sure I'm not townread for anything silly, Imperium, but do you have any thoughts yourself on my alignment?

what's part 1?

I'm feeling really sick today by the way so sorry for not getting more involved.

In post 404, Ginngie wrote:This feels too easy

People always say stuff like this and then go on to lose.

HEY spiffeh!
Is it tomorrow yet? Cuz I think it's time for you to start talking.
Why are you waiting for those people to post?
What happens when they do?
Let's see your hand. You have been making promises. Now I want answers.


@heartless...there was a nancy-game...girls/girls PART 1. This is now part 2- Mina's apartment.

'kay i guess that's my next shitter read

In post 406, Prism wrote:Sounds like you've done a lot of making sure I'm not townread for anything silly, Imperium, but do you have any thoughts yourself on my alignment?

Cautious optimism, but nothing actually worth a mention yet.

I've liked your general posting, and I think that the way you've defended Ahsoka and Spiffeh looks genuine. I also liked your Cary (this looks town, no it doesn't) progression although I'm fully aware that you're fully capable of faking it as scum.

Sorry, Nance. Auto-correct!

In post 359, Imperium wrote:ANTIHERO - I was gonna say let's have a wine and cheese night tonight and then I found out I have to wake up before dawn in the morning. . I'm still planning to drink some wine and catch up tonight, but it will be with less abandon. But hopefully without too much bitching because I'm in a grumpy ass mood today.

Anyway hi to all! I'm not really here yet; I just mostly wanted to complain about above, but I should be back in a little bit

This did not happen. I was told if the thought of playing mafia made me want to kick puppies, I shouldn't play mafia.

*no puppies were injured in tonight's anger episodes.

Maybe tomorrow.

Feeling a bit sharper, taking advantage of it while I can.

First off, really like VNB's #345. Don't agree with all of the reads but some strike me as more skepticism than malice (ex. mastina) while others seem likely. I also just honestly buy the phone story. Conveniently sums up my feelings on Polar-ton of questions, range of usefulness in their answers, near 0 use for reading Polar.

In post 340, Imperium wrote:Spiffeh, me putting you on the bottom of the list doesn't mean that you're my strongest scumread; in fact, it meant that you were the last person who I thought to place in that group. I thought that you actively doing nothing at that point (whether you were aware of it or not) was a line you'd be more likely to take as scum over town, but the biggest reason I put you on that list was so Tammy would look at you specifically since it's not like I have any real capacity to read you.

I'm not really getting this. This is the type of thing you walk up to your hydra partner and just say "Hey, mind taking a look at Spiffeh for me?". Dunno what kind of underhanded signaling you need to get your own hydra partner to look at something. I'm still not really doubting this slot-I'd put it at my top slot next to Ginn-but this just makes me go ???

Heartless's kmd read was strange, with TTH explaining Anti's read using quotes...rather than just having Anti check in himself and give the read. Feels like a really forced hydra reaction. The timing behind #136 is also just forced and stranged for a natural scumread. I really dislike their townread on Cary, and I'll delve into that in a bit because I've got a lot of problems with Cary's 327 which is the one TTH cited.

Two issues I have with Carya so far, 1) Odd Progression on Spiffeh 2) All of #327.

Spiffeh gets slotted into the Carya's second-top slot for his entrance. Next time he's brought up:

In post 226, Caryatid wrote:Spiffeh was so high because I really liked his opening and I think the "predict the scum" thing, while silly, is something I'll want to look back on later in the game once we have some flips because I do think scum would answer that differently than town would. Unfortunately, he's done literally nothing since then, so probably I jumped the gun there. I liked his entrance though.

Okay, so he hasn't done much, that's a shame, but his entrance is still fine.

In post 232, Caryatid wrote:VOTE: Spiffeh L-2

Oh, okay. I guess this is for pressure, he hadn't done anything since 140ish at this point. Carya had just given an Ahsoka read that was really worth pushing before but again, okay sure. Next mention:

In post 327, Caryatid wrote:I think if they're town then it'll really shine through in their posting and if they're not then we'll know. Spiffeh's the one I'm more worried about slipping away.

This is a really strong feeling about Spiffeh, with no clear basis. He had posted plenty since their pressure vote but there's no critique of any of that content from Carya.

They do cite their lack of reads later in a followup, but Carya makes it clear that this is something they did at the time of posting in #352, making it an unlikely candidate for their emotion in #327.

There are moments in Carya's play that also just feels to me like scum who have the tiny behaviors, tonewise, down to rote routine.

In post 327, Caryatid wrote:Mastina do you know why 317 makes me a little paranoid of you? But I like that you're pushing Spiffeh so I'm setting it aside for now but I just...want it noted...for postgame cred or something...that it was page 13 when I started worrying.

This feels so, so fake to me. And again, what they've verbalized about Spiffeh so far is that they liked Spiffeh's entrance but just not his lack of content. The phrasing of it as a question is just weird to me. What's the goal here? NMS going to solve your paranoia just because they know you are? This reads like banter but it's the type of banter that's meant to break into a townbloc.

On another note, this post:

In post 230, Caryatid wrote:The way I feel about camn is that I really liked 118 because it made me laugh and it was off the cuff and cute and I liked her push on Ginngie at first and then in 180 she was talking about awareness and it struck me as odd because I think in general as scum it's easier to have a better awareness of the game state than as town and you have more information to work with, so I feel just about the opposite about situation awareness as camn seems to :/ but her longer explanation in 182 was okay? If it's about nervousness and misreading the town and way her actions would come off to this playerlist then that's a different thing from whta I thought it was and it resonates.

I just want to think about her some more before I have a real read but if you have something, I want to hear it.

This is just a wild read that comes off as faking indecisiveness.

The opener for thinking that camn was town is wack, #118 is just a joke that's almost certainly NAI:

In post 118, camn wrote:Outguess the mod works sometimes?

#180, the post that gave them hesitation, isn't even close to talking about gamestate. It's just about the playerlist, applying to how camn expects Gin to adjust to it as scum:

In post 180, camn wrote:Its not about 'caring' but about awareness.
I am sure you are AWARE of the playerlist.

Her longer explanation actually makes it clear that it's more playerlist, as it launches into deeper speculation.

Misreading it is definitely possible, and Carya's 230 come to the correct conclusion of what camn's #182 was about in the end, but the read applied to it feels disingenuous to me. #180 and #182 might as well be combined posts with their spacing and themes, and Carya's reaction feels like fake indecision.

Ginngie wrote:Why do people purposefully take out quote links when quoting people

If this is at me, it's because I don't usually hit the "quote" button. I copy and paste and add the quote tags in manually.

Heartless wrote:is a vig killing someone because they're neg utility something you've seen actually happen? if so, link plz

Not off the top of my head, but it is basically ALWAYS discussed when someone claims negative utility so the perception that it could happen is enough that a lot of scum won't do it. Either way, I think it's much more likely that mastina claimed negative utility because mastina is negative utility than any kind of tinfoil theory that it benefits scum. If mastina is scum, the claim is probably because of something actually related to mastina's real role.

__________________

On Ginngie's self vote, I didn't like it at first but thought it may have been an emotional kind of thing which could come from either alignment. However, in the interaction with camn, ginngie comes off pretty calm and collected so I can only see it as a joke (doesn't come off that way at all) or a calculated attempt to accomplish something. I can't see what town would want to accomplish. tl;dr I still don't like the self vote.

Ginngie wrote:Cards was literally an actual reads list with tiers and it's WAY too early to have that structured of a list

It really wasn't. Sure, you don't have much info yet at that stage of a game so any accuracy is probably difficult to come by, but it's to get a read on any given post. So having a tiered reads list is entirely possible as long as it comes with the understanding that things can and probably will change later.

Ginngie wrote:As it stands it's obvious I'm trying to do my own thing and appealing to no one but my own play style.

This may be nitpicky, but that makes it sound like you're trying too hard to match your own meta...

camn wrote:Stop being silly... your command of English is excellent.

There is a context to actions.
In a different game.. I think a player like you, AS SCUM OR TOWN, consider self-voting because it shows emotion.. it shows lack of concern over votes, or otherwise expresses a towniness to players who will read into things on that level. It is manipulative, but that is not really the worst. You as town manipulating people into overcoming thier suspicions and thinking you are town is fine, and pro-town.

BUT HERE, I think you MUST know that we would see through that shit, because you are certainly aware of the experience level of this playerlist.
So, AS TOWN, I think you would realize that the risk of that kind of attempts at manipulation is more than in a game with a different playerlist.
But AS SCUM, maybe you are a little nervous that we are just gonna catch you.. so you go for it. The possible benefit is a little greater, and outweighs the risk.

That was my calculus.
Is it correct? Maybe. Maybe not.

Would I even be talking about it if you didn't keep bringing it up?
Probably not.
I liked your subsequent responses and I am over it.

Do I love parsing posts word by word?
Not really, it's boring af.

I can't tell if this is overthinking or spot on, but either way it feels genuine.

camn wrote:Would I even be talking about it if you didn't keep bringing it up?
Probably not.

Ginngie wrote:You're a good noodle :3

This post following those two lines of camn's post, however, feels like an attempt to shake pressure after JUST saying that Ginngie doesn't mind votes. So I'm leaning towards camn's observation being spot on rather than overthinking.

Imperium wrote:Why do you think that mastina's 48 was the equivalent of putting a "vig me" post it note on her own bag? I mean, maybe I have a different approach to the game than you do, but I can't say that I'd think that "our role is negative utility if another role exists in the game but I don't currently think the chances of that are very high" is anywhere near a "this is going to fuck the game over, kill" it claim as something like camn's Hated claim would be.

Does this mean that you're townreading mastina and camn? How strong are your townreads on each of them?

The idea of a vig shooting negative utilities is nothing new. It seems unnecessarily risky for scum. It's just one dangerous trade off for I don't even know what benefit. I can only remember one time where scum fakeclaimed a negative utility and survived to endgame and that was in like 2009. Yes, I have townreads on both mastina and camn. The mastina one is still pretty weak because I haven't seen enough from that slot to have a confident read. The one on camn is a little stronger because I liked the exchange with Ginngie.

Imperium wrote: Already asked the same question Prism did, but I don't think that you actually answered all of his questions here.

What didn't I answer?

Imperium wrote:Why was Spiffeh so high - the only thing he did was the "predict the scum" thing and I don't understand why that looks town at all

You listed him as an angry face (scum read?) so I have to ask. Was the "predict the scum" thing scummy to you?

Cary wrote:Ahsoka's entrance sucked. At that time she only had the one post where she wanted to know why people were scumreading her when she hadn't posted. But since then it just seems like she's having trouble getting her feet and she is the sort of player who has trouble getting her feet as scum so I don't like it.

Fully agree except that I'm not sure of the meta part. The post about scum reads was pretty bad though. I could probably vote on that alone.

Prism wrote: Any questions for a drunk Prism who presumably is more sloppy as scum or more genuine as town now's your chance

This feels manipulative. Like someone who is more in control than they are letting on and trying to get people to town read them.

_________________

I don't get the spiff wagon. Anyone wanna explain?

_________________

I'm through page 10 but decided when I started that I'd stop at 3am. I'll finish this tomorrow.

People I'm probably not voting anytime soon: Imperium, Ginn, NMS (Got a lot better when they started walling, both a blessing and a curse)

One notch below but probably still no: Ahsoka, Spiffeh, VNB

No idea: camn (probably lean town? not sure what my basis is here), Polar, kmd

Yeah let's vote these fuckers: Maxwell, Carya, Heartless

P-Edit: Made before kmd's last post, will get this out first though

Prism makes me doubt the ever living shit out of my Cary read

Yeah that was a pretty good post from kmd. I think you're offtrack on Ginngie, but this is my 3rd rodeo of hers so I'm used to it.

Specifically, where I think camn went wrong in #182 is that I think she got them mixed up. Scum Ginngie is afraid and plays the safe route. Town Ginngie has a of faith in the ability of a town Nacho/mastina to correctly get their alignment.

As far as me being drunk the night of my birthday, sorry but I don't play it up and pretend to forget that a backspace key exists like other people. You're right-I was well in control; but it really doesn't matter how much I've had, it's a true statement. I wasn't playing up my drunkenness, only stating that it wasn't like my play was going to tighten up. It's an invitation to , not to townread me. Decide for yourself how control I was in then.

In post 419, Ginngie wrote:Prism makes me doubt the ever living shit out of my Cary read

Your quote from earlier, this one:

In post 227, Ginngie wrote:

In post 226, Caryatid wrote:That tier is just above "null, hasn't posted, but it's the middle of the night in their time zone" tier (you), just above "null, hasn't posted, but it's daytime in their time zone" (Shadowphant). I originally had fewer tiers but I kept finding I did feel a little bit more strongly about one person than another.

Not gonna lie, I don't see scum caring about details like this.

is actually another example of those rote, tiny ingrained behaviors I meant, and I fundamentally disagree with townreading it. From new players I can see the argument but this was extremely trivial to fake as scum.

I made reference to the same feeling in Buttersnap Shitfuckery when people started townreading the tone of Transcend. The context is different-these feel more forum vs. chat-oriented, for instance, but the principle of "ingrained scum shortcut/tiny tonal behavior" is the same.

It's also worth noting that these behaviors are powerful because they're both . The first especially is a big key-it speaks to the value of digging deeper, not instalynching.

In post 417, Kmd4390 wrote:ginngie comes off pretty calm and collected so I can only see it as a joke (doesn't come off that way at all) or a calculated attempt to accomplish something.

Agree so much. The question of course being WHAT was Gin trying to accomplish?
Now, I see town-Gin in a lot of eir other posts.. so I am not hanging a total scumread on this.. but it certainly is hanging around in the back of my head.

However... Prism might be right here:

In post 420, Prism wrote:Specifically, where I think camn went wrong in #182 is that I think she got them mixed up.

We will see. I certainly would rather see a D1 lynch on Spiffeh right now than on Gin.

I feel like my Maxwell vote is really worth more pressure. They've been sick so I get the hesitance but their posting has been lackluster.

In post 134, MaxwellPuckett wrote:Prisms town! Totes.
VOTE: Ahsoka Tano

Ginngie pls dont self if youre town even as a joke its just confusing to us good honest folks

Ignoring obvious underexplained reads, second part is just weird. "Don't self even if you're town," does Maxwell think it's scum? town? NAI? Implied they're confused by it by saying it generally confuses townies but that confusion is not apparent at all. Just a regular "Don't be antitown as town!" and then move along.

In post 271, MaxwellPuckett wrote:Hey all Ill get into this soon, been pretty damn sick
Ahsokas posting hasn't improved but w the consistent weirdness im not sure if i find it AI anymore

See: fake nuance

Can you explain the desire to lynch Spiffeh? I still see basically no real reason behind it. Closest I've seen is his lack of reads, but I don't see much reason to think there's this immediate, AI need for that.

I liked his inquisition of Nacho, even as town Nacho unintentionally pulled some bullshit, and now he's just frustrated because of dumb shit like Mastina typing 2 massive walls that just say "He just like Spiffeh town. I This is Spiffeh scum. I don't know. I it." She might be right, but if she's wrong of course Spiffeh is going to think to himself "This is dumb shit and I'm pissed I have to deal with it, especially after that Nacho bullshit earlier"