Mini 1942 - Switchboard 2 [Game Over]

[BlackVoid]

Alright, since you both claimed, I'm going to lay my cards on the table:

My priority level is five. My switch state became On at the beginning of D2. It was turned Off at the beginning of D3.
My predecessor didn't submit an action N1. He toggled Off Nosferatu on N2 and N3. I turned myself back on N4.

Nos's claims match up with what I know although I have no idea if that's alignment indicative.

[BlackVoid]

@IAI, I'm not sure I understand the reason behind your gambit. Why were you so particular about wanting to get Nos lynched D4 that you'd give town wrong info? If you are town and you get lynched, it's game over. That doesn't change whether you got lynched last DP or this DP. You also need to correctly lynch out of Creature/Keychain to win the game and that doesn't change either. Why did the order matter so much? If anything, the opposite makes more sense: if you saw votes on you and people not trusting you because Fitz crumb, then it makes more sense to scumhunt in Creature/Keychain, lynch scum and hope town get more info to clear you/condemn Nos. It does feel like you knew Keychain being flipped would set you back and tried going for the win yesterday whereas Nos was very willing to vote Keychain. Also, your play D4 makes sense if you were truly turned on and it would have been auto-win if we lynched Nos. But knowing you were turned off, your refusal to scumhunt much within Creature/Keychain makes much less sense.

[BlackVoid]

From a you-scum perspective, the explanation would be that you said you were turned on because you wanted to lynch Nos and win. But when you realized Keychain was getting lynched instead and that would lead to auto-loss, you said it was a gambit and you were turned off after all so you have the chance to avoid auto-loss. That seems a lot more straightforward.

[Nosferatu]

yeah im priority

[Nosferatu]

10

[BlackVoid]

VOTE: fitz

Why did you choose to vote Fitz over Flubber here?

[BlackVoid]

ok if I had to guess, I think that IAI is the goon and mjoll was the roleblocker

luv then key then creature should claim

can we just get on with it

How did Creature go from your biggest suspect to biggest townread in the span of a page?

[I Am Innocent]

@IAI, I'm not sure I understand the reason behind your gambit. Why were you so particular about wanting to get Nos lynched D4 that you'd give town wrong info? If you are town and you get lynched, it's game over. That doesn't change whether you got lynched last DP or this DP. You also need to correctly lynch out of Creature/Keychain to win the game and that doesn't change either. Why did the order matter so much? If anything, the opposite makes more sense: if you saw votes on you and people not trusting you because Fitz crumb, then it makes more sense to scumhunt in Creature/Keychain, lynch scum and hope town get more info to clear you/condemn Nos. It does feel like you knew Keychain being flipped would set you back and tried going for the win yesterday whereas Nos was very willing to vote Keychain. Also, your play D4 makes sense if you were truly turned on and it would have been auto-win if we lynched Nos. But knowing you were turned off, your refusal to scumhunt much within Creature/Keychain makes much less sense.

It's actually the opposite. I was hoping to keep it between nos and myself so I'd be confirmed town. That was why I wanted to avoid creature/keychain. Having to explain the gambit is much easier once you win the 1 vs 1 and become confirmed town.

Key and nos came at me very quickly. When nos faked CC I thought I knew that scum was going all in on me. Which is why I tried the gambit, figured I had nothing to lose.

[I Am Innocent]

From a you-scum perspective, the explanation would be that you said you were turned on because you wanted to lynch Nos and win. But when you realized Keychain was getting lynched instead and that would lead to auto-loss, you said it was a gambit and you were turned off after all so you have the chance to avoid auto-loss. That seems a lot more straightforward.

It was MyLo yesterday. Why would scum want to put all their eggs in one basket? Why would I only want to lynch Nos when from a scum perspective I would have had two options for a win? And why would scum IAI have his teammate Key push the hardest on him in MyLo rather than have them keep their options open?

It doesn't line up. What does is:

1) the hard push by both of them on me
2) the lack of Nos to give any info on night actions before the mass claim
3) the pushback to give info on night actions after the claim
4) saying he hid behind fitz and then later saying on no I was wrong my switch was off
5) the back and forth distance vote on key and vote on me yesterday
6) nos wanting to push the mass claim, and as soon as key was asked to go first he wanted to slow it down, even came up with his own order where lil went before key
7) saying his switch was on again for N4 yet lied again

Srsly read nos play D4 again with the assumption he is scum. It's pretty obvious he is teammates with key.

[BlackVoid]

@IAI, Nos, did either of you crumb your role in any way? @Nos, in 1431, why did you assume your switch was on even if the mod didn't confirm anything? Looks like everytime your switch state changes, the mod tells you.

[BlackVoid]

It's actually the opposite. I was hoping to keep it between nos and myself so I'd be confirmed town. That was why I wanted to avoid creature/keychain. Having to explain the gambit is much easier once you win the 1 vs 1 and become confirmed town.

Key and nos came at me very quickly. When nos faked CC I thought I knew that scum was going all in on me. Which is why I tried the gambit, figured I had nothing to lose.

I still don't understand. If you're town, you need to do two things to win. a) Out-debate Nos. b) Pick correctly between Creature and Keychain. The order doesn't really matter and if anything, doing B first will give you a better chance of winning A. But you were really, really focused on doing A first. You already knew Nos was scum so lynching him doesn't really make a difference as far as looking for partner-interactions go.

[I Am Innocent]

I won't deny that. I just don't think our best move is to let them know who the top priority players are. It puts our PR's at risk. By keeping it hidden, it lets appropriate town players (read: vanilla) try and draw the night kills. Knowing the priority numbers, scum can just start picking off people higher than them until they have the upper hand.

Priority numbers don't correlate with PRs though.
If anything, I'd expect more PRs in the low priority for balance purposes, but that's purely speculation.

And while you're right in that scum may try to pick off the high priorities.... We've got a Tracker, Watcher, and JK here. With even a single one of them turned on scum's gonna have problems not being caught if they go that route.

I believe this is a low risk high reward scenario for Town.
Only scum should be scared

I never said they correlated. But if scum just picks off people above their highest priority, they can start turning off roles and agin the upper hand.

That's what our PRs are for. JK protects high priority, except PR claims. Watcher observes high priority targets, especially a PR that the JK won't be protecting. Tracker just does their thing.
Picking off high priorities is not a sustainable tactic for scum.

This has me thinking:

mod, do roles such as JK or RBer block only other roles, or switch attempts too?

I think last game I and MOI debated on forcing everybody to switch "on" the person above them in the player list (top player on the list then does the player on the bottom).

Positive side is all town power roles would be turned on (or scum risks getting caught if not), down side is scum roles are too. I personally think that is a risk worth taking though, depending on the answer the mod gives. If RBer does affect switch attempts too, I'd take back this recommendation tho.

Yeah pointed out my role in a "fake question" to the mod.

[I Am Innocent]

It's actually the opposite. I was hoping to keep it between nos and myself so I'd be confirmed town. That was why I wanted to avoid creature/keychain. Having to explain the gambit is much easier once you win the 1 vs 1 and become confirmed town.

Key and nos came at me very quickly. When nos faked CC I thought I knew that scum was going all in on me. Which is why I tried the gambit, figured I had nothing to lose.

I still don't understand. If you're town, you need to do two things to win. a) Out-debate Nos. b) Pick correctly between Creature and Keychain. The order doesn't really matter and if anything, doing B first will give you a better chance of winning A. But you were really, really focused on doing A first. You already knew Nos was scum so lynching him doesn't really make a difference as far as looking for partner-interactions go.

Are you referring to pre or post gambit?

[I Am Innocent]

Once I did the gambit I was like oh crap if we successfully do b) and then someone dies I am going to be autolynched for the loss. I'd rather KEEP it on me/nos and become confirmed town then do b).

If you're talking pre gambit, I had someone point out a supposed crumb, got two quick votes and a fake CC, and looking back may have panicked with the fake gambit. It seemed like a good move. Nos did tighten up at that point.

[BlackVoid]

It was MyLo yesterday. Why would scum want to put all their eggs in one basket? Why would I only want to lynch Nos when from a scum perspective I would have had two options for a win? And why would scum IAI have his teammate Key push the hardest on him in MyLo rather than have them keep their options open?

It doesn't line up. What does is:

1) the hard push by both of them on me
2) the lack of Nos to give any info on night actions before the mass claim
3) the pushback to give info on night actions after the claim
4) saying he hid behind fitz and then later saying on no I was wrong my switch was off
5) the back and forth distance vote on key and vote on me yesterday
6) nos wanting to push the mass claim, and as soon as key was asked to go first he wanted to slow it down, even came up with his own order where lil went before key
7) saying his switch was on again for N4 yet lied again

Srsly read nos play D4 again with the assumption he is scum. It's pretty obvious he is teammates with key.

I don't think there was any realistic chance of Creature being mislynched here. If we were going to lynch in {Creature, Keychain}, it was always Keychain that was getting lynched so I wouldn't say you had two options for a win. Your only real shot would have been to divert the lynch onto Nos.

If you are scum with Keychain, then I think she'd have seen Fitz's crumb as a guilty and thought it was a huge risk not to bus at that point. Also, pushing each other is the opposite of putting all your eggs in one basket - I think if one of you flipped, the other would want to look good.

I asked Nos questions about his D4 and I'll wait for his response. But why does your entire case on him rest solely on D4 stuff?

I read through the entire game and his interactions with the flipped scum are actually a lot better than yours. While you were tunneling Realeo D2, he was voting Flubbernugget, the counterwagon. Keychain spent most of the early D2 tunneling him, and then he broke down completely (923 and 925) and then Keychain unvoted. It's hard to see all that as theater. Looks more like Keychain was tunneling a townie and backed off almost because she felt bad (929)?

[BlackVoid]

Once I did the gambit I was like oh crap if we successfully do b) and then someone dies I am going to be autolynched for the loss. I'd rather KEEP it on me/nos and become confirmed town then do b).

If you're talking pre gambit, I had someone point out a supposed crumb, got two quick votes and a fake CC, and looking back may have panicked with the fake gambit. It seemed like a good move. Nos did tighten up at that point.

So, you did a gambit where you locked yourself into getting auto-lynched if we successfully lynched scum outside of the you/Nos pair? I don't see the utility there.

But I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on D1/D2. You never really pushed any of the scum and focused almost exclusively on town. Would you say you were having an off-game here and is there a reason why? Your accuracy rate as town is normally much higher. You were majorly responsible for both town lynches and I don't think you spent much time at all focusing on any of Flubber/Keychain/Nos throughout the game.

[I Am Innocent]

His vote on flubber D2 was "to sort him out", that's text book let me distance from my partner but give me an out for later.

I actually have inside info so maybe I'm biased, but yeah the key/nos interactions felt like look at me I'm participating but not committing to this read. The unvote by key was just bad. There were a few bad lines by nos in there that I can quote when I get on a computer.

[BlackVoid]

I don't really understand why you were never able to recognize that Realeo/Mozamis were town. They both had a very townie frustration to them which reminded me of Kairal in that musical mafia game we played together where you picked up on him being town and talked me into it when I wasn't very sure.

[I Am Innocent]

Once I did the gambit I was like oh crap if we successfully do b) and then someone dies I am going to be autolynched for the loss. I'd rather KEEP it on me/nos and become confirmed town then do b).

If you're talking pre gambit, I had someone point out a supposed crumb, got two quick votes and a fake CC, and looking back may have panicked with the fake gambit. It seemed like a good move. Nos did tighten up at that point.

So, you did a gambit where you locked yourself into getting auto-lynched if we successfully lynched scum outside of the you/Nos pair? I don't see the utility there.

But I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on D1/D2. You never really pushed any of the scum and focused almost exclusively on town. Would you say you were having an off-game here and is there a reason why? Your accuracy rate as town is normally much higher. You were majorly responsible for both town lynches and I don't think you spent much time at all focusing on any of Flubber/Keychain/Nos throughout the game.

yeah I was wrong about flubber and nos. flubber I played a game with and nailed as scum D1. His play here was much different. He didn't seem to care whereas in that game I caught him thru fake scumhunting. Nos I don't care attitude also gained an incorrect town read.

Key was always off to me. When she pushed me to divulge the optimal scum play D2 I became very wary of her. Remember it was me not Nos who said she should mass claim first D4. Picking one of the town to mass claim first, as Nos suggested, would have given Key a chance to pick who she wanted to CC.

And in all fairness, town hunting is also a very important part of my game and I correctly nailed rad rat and fitz, and to a lesser degree your slot and aubrey (tho at times both of these slots made me question things about them)

[I Am Innocent]

I don't really understand why you were never able to recognize that Realeo/Mozamis were town. They both had a very townie frustration to them which reminded me of Kairal in that musical mafia game we played together where you picked up on him being town and talked me into it when I wasn't very sure.

Moz dropped a scum tell early on. Giving full reads list without really explaining the why on the reads. His read on me was particularly weak. At one point it was scum IAI is very dangerous so we need to be careful with this slot to IAI is too good a town player to be playing like this. The only concrete reason he ever threw out at me was he didn't like my scum chick read but in his next reads list he had chick as scum!

Realeo dropped the scum syndesis tell which is when scum say why is nobody paying attention to me. And the part I hated about realeo the most was how his play changed once his wagon got going. He started to push his scum reads like he never did to that point in the game. Went hard after fitz, who I had a strong town read on from his early D1 play.

[Nosferatu]

ok if I had to guess, I think that IAI is the goon and mjoll was the roleblocker

luv then key then creature should claim

can we just get on with it

How did Creature go from your biggest suspect to biggest townread in the span of a page?

he wasnt, i wanted him to claim last because i didnt want for him to weasel out or something

[Nosferatu]

@IAI, Nos, did either of you crumb your role in any way? @Nos, in 1431, why did you assume your switch was on even if the mod didn't confirm anything? Looks like everytime your switch state changes, the mod tells you.

i just assumed he didnt bother

[Nosferatu]

also no i didnt crumb even though i planned on doing it

[Nosferatu]

79 Straight out of the gate with some setup spec questions, I feel good about this since he could've easily just asked those questions in scum PT
I'm going to ignore the setup breaking stuff since I personally find it uninteresting and more importantly NAI
369 Catch-up that kind of implies he wasn't really reading o/
1. Opposes priority claiming which is good
2. Shooting RR's 28 gives me good vibez too
3. Dig on realeo's 37 is a reach. I've never seen scum go for such cheap town tells.
4. Chick doesn't phrase 71 in a really pockety way, don't like this point.
5. Would love to hear why fitz liked 77. First half was fence-sitting, other half was piggybacking off of key's earlier post.
6. shading moza's anti-claim stance because he claimed priority seems kinda bleh. closest analogy I can think of is throwing away your headset because it's not a building.

452 Boy do I love seeing this
1. I would not townread either realeo or aubrey based on this page (10)
2. Why did two of your scumreads become townleans?
3. I cannot tell you the physical pain it brought me to see that your only proper town read was yourself.

520-571 Extremely hung up on the use of 20 minutes for seemingly no reason. Bad vibez.

728 this vote is bad. REALLY BAD. especially within the context of that flip.

1073 Ok couple bad things here.
1. Realeo scumread because he got mad over a question is? Scum motivation there?
2. Still no reads
3. Zero justification for any of those scumreads
4. First bit about realeo's 825 is lowkey garbage

1107 Do not like the tone shift here.

Gonna put this at nullscum

^why i voted fitz

[BlackVoid]

What do you think, Creature?