Mini 1949: NFL Mafia - Day 1

[ActionDan]

+1 Desperado

nice scumclaim

how so?

why do you like desp's posting, lets start there

He's willing to notice that MathBlade's reasoning was crap.

Quality town posting

[Persivul]

Vote Count 1.3

Drixx (1) - Thor665
Mathblade (2) - dramonic, Desperado
Assemblerotws (3) - Ellibereth, ActionDan, TwoInAMillion
Desperado (1) - gerryoat
gerryoat (1) - Chesskid3
Chesskid3 (1) - Mathblade

Not voting (4) - Assemblerotws, EeveeLution Army, Drixx, mozamis,

Day 1 will end in (expired on 2017-09-26 05:30:00)

Mod Notes:

None

Football Ranking

L 39 Chesskid3 - San Francisco 49ers

[Thor665]

I'm torn on what to think of mathblade to be honest. I'm ok lynching within the weak teams, but the fact that nobody has really taken much of a stance on it besides the guy who parroted me and one other person makes me uneasy that it's an all town block and it's a bad road to go down.

Thor make me feel better

People not addressing plans is an interesting question if you want to apply scum/town vibes o it, but I'm not sure I'm smart enough to read them.
Your plan was ignored (which you're taking it as being pro-town as, presumably, it's good enough scum are scared to attack it)
Math's plan was assaulted aggressively and ongoing (on, as far as I can tell since Dram is actually the frontrunner for the logic against it, a basis that scum may lie if forced to claim)
I got nothing brilliant on either take, as I actually am currently vibing both of you, and both plans, as pro-town. I don't think it's a gimmee read though.
If you like you plan, go for it, just because other people don't agree changes very little as a strategy for it on Day 1, since by definition we'll hit in one of the groups

But again, there is nothing that stops scum from saying they grabbed low accountability roles like jk, doc, watcher and claiming to target irrelevant players, while actually taking something else.

Sure...and?

Claiming to have protected someone both doesn't give any information to the town and it removes the role from the town's perceived list, giving scum both a safety vs doc and a free role (whatever they actually picked) for use later. Same thing for "I copped the dead guy" or "I watched this person nobody visited".
There's no information there AND we (think) the role just went to waste. Because these things can and WILL most likely happen with town players as well. There's a 90% chance (not actual stats) that if anyone in the town grabs doc, he's gonna fail his protection. There's a good chance that someone grabbing watcher won't see anything.
We can't just lynch these players "just in case"

Math's plan does not involve that - so you're arguing against a straw man here.

I would much, MUCH rather keep scum in the dark as to what roles are taken and gamble on the chance they'll lose their pick if their team wins by trying to grab something that's already gone.

Since, theoretically, town should have more chances at getting roles (and thus missing them) - this seems to benefit scum more than town, yeah?

UNLESS your role has very obvious immediate utility (like a cop result on a living player), I think claiming is dumb, and even in those cases I think it's much better to leave the role open to wifom and just say "I have an inno on X" without specifying the nature of the inno.

Which is a big part of Math's plan that I like, and I still don't get the explosion against it, since he's already advocating some of the best obvious play for a big chunk of the roles.

Of course that only works if your inno is a real inno and not "I tracked that player and they didnt visit". That's not a real inno (haven't check the role list to see what can provide real innos besides cop)

Eh, failed tracks are still info.

Also it's obvious but immediate claiming also kills roles like IC <_<

I would dare say that the people who should take the IC role are exactly the sorts of players who should use it immediately.

Looking at your rebuttal I see;
"Scum might lie"
"Straw Man"
"Some mild agreement"

At that stage, I can get you generally disagreeing with the plan.
But what do you think about people somehow translating it into "scum plan!"
Because it's really not, and even if you don't like the plan it's still generally a pro-town basic mindset and shows some goals to game solve and help town more than to aid scum machinations.
I find the assault on the plan overwrought and would happily wager scum were in on that pool.
What do you think?

[Ellibereth]

day ends in two fucking days can we lynch assembly

[Ellibereth]

Not voting (4) - Assemblerotws, EeveeLution Army, Drixx, mozamis,
^^^
also wtf is this horseshit

[MathBlade]

day ends in two fucking days can we lynch assembly

Day ends in two days can we just lynch chesskid?

[MathBlade]

I'm torn on what to think of mathblade to be honest. I'm ok lynching within the weak teams, but the fact that nobody has really taken much of a stance on it besides the guy who parroted me and one other person makes me uneasy that it's an all town block and it's a bad road to go down.

Thor make me feel better

People not addressing plans is an interesting question if you want to apply scum/town vibes o it, but I'm not sure I'm smart enough to read them.
Your plan was ignored (which you're taking it as being pro-town as, presumably, it's good enough scum are scared to attack it)
Math's plan was assaulted aggressively and ongoing (on, as far as I can tell since Dram is actually the frontrunner for the logic against it, a basis that scum may lie if forced to claim)
I got nothing brilliant on either take, as I actually am currently vibing both of you, and both plans, as pro-town. I don't think it's a gimmee read though.
If you like you plan, go for it, just because other people don't agree changes very little as a strategy for it on Day 1, since by definition we'll hit in one of the groups

But again, there is nothing that stops scum from saying they grabbed low accountability roles like jk, doc, watcher and claiming to target irrelevant players, while actually taking something else.

Sure...and?

Claiming to have protected someone both doesn't give any information to the town and it removes the role from the town's perceived list, giving scum both a safety vs doc and a free role (whatever they actually picked) for use later. Same thing for "I copped the dead guy" or "I watched this person nobody visited".
There's no information there AND we (think) the role just went to waste. Because these things can and WILL most likely happen with town players as well. There's a 90% chance (not actual stats) that if anyone in the town grabs doc, he's gonna fail his protection. There's a good chance that someone grabbing watcher won't see anything.
We can't just lynch these players "just in case"

Math's plan does not involve that - so you're arguing against a straw man here.

I would much, MUCH rather keep scum in the dark as to what roles are taken and gamble on the chance they'll lose their pick if their team wins by trying to grab something that's already gone.

Since, theoretically, town should have more chances at getting roles (and thus missing them) - this seems to benefit scum more than town, yeah?

UNLESS your role has very obvious immediate utility (like a cop result on a living player), I think claiming is dumb, and even in those cases I think it's much better to leave the role open to wifom and just say "I have an inno on X" without specifying the nature of the inno.

Which is a big part of Math's plan that I like, and I still don't get the explosion against it, since he's already advocating some of the best obvious play for a big chunk of the roles.

Of course that only works if your inno is a real inno and not "I tracked that player and they didnt visit". That's not a real inno (haven't check the role list to see what can provide real innos besides cop)

Eh, failed tracks are still info.

Also it's obvious but immediate claiming also kills roles like IC <_<

I would dare say that the people who should take the IC role are exactly the sorts of players who should use it immediately.

Looking at your rebuttal I see;
"Scum might lie"
"Straw Man"
"Some mild agreement"

At that stage, I can get you generally disagreeing with the plan.
But what do you think about people somehow translating it into "scum plan!"
Because it's really not, and even if you don't like the plan it's still generally a pro-town basic mindset and shows some goals to game solve and help town more than to aid scum machinations.
I find the assault on the plan overwrought and would happily wager scum were in on that pool.
What do you think?

The entire plan by chesskid was not attacked because chesskid is scum.

I shoot it down with one post and boom it is done.

However even after I say "whatever drop it" (paraphrase) dramonic still goes on about it and so do you.

So chesskid + (dramonic/Thor)?

[MathBlade]

Math "my body is a vessel for my superbrain" Blade

Considering how sore my body is that might just be a thing.

[Assemblerotws]

I am capable of acknowledging antitown when it is shoved in my face.

VOTE: Dramonic

[dramonic]

Apparently not

[dramonic]

@Thor: I'm confused about whats confusing you.
Math's plan basically gives scum two roles a pop AND removes a role for town. Math's plan gives scum knowledge of every role leaving the pool in addition to what they pick.
Math's plan is basically "give scum all the information they could want and feed town false info" with a nice paintjob.

But its fine we're apparently both scum with chesskid so I'll stop arguing and reap the benefits of the proscum plan

[dramonic]

Also irt town missing roles: scum missing role is more important and town "misses" roles regardless.
Irt IC: Ill give you that one

[EeveeLution Army]

Btw i was mostly against maths plan because he's like "if you pick a role benefiting scum or passive I'll take it as a scum claim" and that to me is bs

[MathBlade]

Btw i was mostly against maths plan because he's like "if you pick a role benefiting scum or passive I'll take it as a scum claim" and that to me is bs

Oh I still will. That part isn't a debate. Take ninja or strongman and I will tunnel you to kingdom come.

[Drixx]

Like ... at this point I kind of want to lynch among the pool of people taking snarky swings at Mathblade. Just on policy.

[gerryoat]

Hm. Maybe I should reconsider chess

[MathBlade]

Like ... at this point I kind of want to lynch among the pool of people taking snarky swings at Mathblade. Just on policy.

Why? I think differently. I kinda expect to get votes and told my thinking is silly. I just don't want the personal attacks.

[MathBlade]

I am capable of acknowledging antitown when it is shoved in my face.

VOTE: Dramonic

And if assemblerotws is scum so is dramonic.

[TwoInAMillion]

I don't agree with MB's assesment. Let's go ahead with assemble.

[gerryoat]

if you dont agree with MB shouldnt you be voting MB? im confused

[TwoInAMillion]

I would but other people don't seem on board with a MB lynch. He is death tunneling me for no reason so other people don't really care because it's not them I think. But yeah I would be down for MB.

[EeveeLution Army]

Where is there a personal attack? @mathblade

[EeveeLution Army]

Also disagreeing with a plan isn't a reason to lynch someone unless the plan was obviously suggested for malicious purposes.

[dramonic]

I am capable of acknowledging antitown when it is shoved in my face.

VOTE: Dramonic

And if assemblerotws is scum so is dramonic.

If I were scum id just leave you alive for the further mislynch

[gerryoat]

i hate the jets