Large Normal 208 - Fireworks Festival [End]

[Nero Cain]

but ok, yeah, it was guilty and I screwed up. Chill the fuck out guys.

[Transcend]

Getting ass lynched was the game winning move imo

It was kinda half assed too.

[Regfan]

Congrats scum, certainly the more deserving team during this game.

@Nero - Will say this; I don't mind you not claiming your "guilty" on D4 if you're contemplating the possibility of it being a false positive due to a scum role visiting the person (I mean obviously it was a guilty here but I think it's plausible to end up where you're doubting it and think there's +EV in holding it there if only just to secure another invest), might even shrug that as a small thing if you don't bring it up D5 but on D6 where it's LYLO regardless of what you think of the result it's something you have to bring up at day start. Other players absolutely deserve the ability to think about and discuss that information and wanting to save it or hold it back on that is pretty unfair and disrespectful to the rest of the town. You bringing up the result probably doesn't change the result of the game, scum might still win here at F7 and if not probably at F5 or F3 but town deserve the chance to pull it back with that info.

[AxleGreaser]

Of the scum, Axe played the best. I was light scum reading him early for active lurking but he really owned me late game.

(Wait for it.... wait until you also see how badddddd I played. I had a RL excuse though.)

Please be aware if I roll town next game.. and CABD and HST (or their metric equivalent) are in both the game. (even if we don't have a D1 day vig or claimed masons filling up the thread
and if you don't allow room for the outed town PRs to have their moment in the sun...

and once he stops having fun messing with all the delicious attentions

(yeah that is a normal >>human<< thing that happens) (then they (the moment in the sun town PRs) without that due deference, they get grumpy town implodes and you/town loses)(team work is good, even when it means you step back)
So my advice to all townies when that happens stand back and accept that some people may slightly scum read your quietness.

but anyway if Just CABD and HST are in the game, and scum cant likely kill both of them. I am likely to step back again somewhat as town.

It will look quite bit like what you saw. It was a conscious decision to mimic what actual town me would do. if instead you have some subtle thing, then keep schtum(my advice),
However at that strategic level I know that's whats town me would have done because at strategy level i decided that before I got my PM while I was wondering about the game. And what i would do in in it while doing back ground on the people I would play with, and also to get warmed up as its been a while between games.

I even have a name for that play decision as town. Its called a slow dance. I expect I will slow dance with Rhah too BTW. Although perhaps i had better read the mason PT as i apparently misread him all game.

Note its different when there is only two. Three has different game theory ramifications.

Skip: objection!!!! but you were scum....
Axle: yep and scum who knew what town him would do at that level of choosing how to play during this game if I had been town.

Axle: good boy skip.

[Lucky2u]

Hey Masons! On a scale of 1-10, how disappointed are you guys that I flipped green?

Why did I get so tunneled you were a mason.....

It was in my mind simply not a possible thing on the planet that the masons scum read was genuine.
I assumed they were dragging you around to look for scum wanting an easy lynch.
That led to me setting the P Value for you being their mason buddy at P=1.5.
I still keep rereading the flips.

I read pie mentioning this in the dead thread. I don't know how you made that leap but that is some serious paranoia man. Still, of the 3 remaining scum, I had you as the most town so you did something right in my eyes.

[mhsmith0]

Not that I'm blaming the low (FMPOV) town power on the loss but I feel like we should have had at least another investigation role.

I think I disagree? 14/4 and town got a free dayvig that was almost always gonna hit a scumspect. Six people died at towns hands instead of the usual five for a 4 man scum team, and town also got a jk masons and a weak investigative role. Five power roles, four highly claimable (idk why the jk was lynched here, that a claim that SHOULD get some space most of the time) and the motion detector has realistic odds of being useful directly anyway even if it won’t divert an early lynch.

The jailkeeper is relatively weak in a large game... but most of towns power was passive (masons) or day power (dayvig) so the typical blocking of town aspect didn’t really play as much as it normally might in a large, so it’s probably pretty useful overall.

[Transcend]

Btw you wouldn't catch me dead as town pushing on asd

The town was just legitimately shit, i could do anything and still win the game.

[Transcend]

Like this was no means a good scum performance by me

It was just horrid town

Also whiskers there's this thing called communicating with your teammates

[Raskolnikov]

I think I disagree? 14/4 and town got a free dayvig that was almost always gonna hit a scumspect. Six people died at towns hands instead of the usual five for a 4 man scum team, and town also got a jk masons and a weak investigative role. Five power roles, four highly claimable (idk why the jk was lynched here, that a claim that SHOULD get some space most of the time) and the motion detector has realistic odds of being useful directly anyway even if it won’t divert an early lynch.

The jailkeeper is relatively weak in a large game... but most of towns power was passive (masons) or day power (dayvig) so the typical blocking of town aspect didn’t really play as much as it normally might in a large, so it’s probably pretty useful overall.

yo smith you gotta balance differently for MS I think we need cop+doc combo every game to have a fighting chance

[Transcend]

Also no objections to releasing my scum pt

[Transcend]

Didn't read a single post of axle's both in thread and in my scum pt

[Transcend]

In their entirety

[AxleGreaser]

[AxleGreaser]

[Transcend]

You still owned though and i just blind town read you.

You have a unique way of playing for sure.

[AxleGreaser]

I am, ime, fairly unique.

[pienyan]

So, this game.

This is a pretty long post, but I've done my best to keep it concrete. Bear with me.

I would say there were probably three major overarching issues from the town side, both general patterns and specific mistakes, that turned the game into the snowball from hell that it was. The first was the complete lack of coordination throughout pretty much the entire town. I'm not gonna write a bunch of ~words~ about this since probably a lot of you understand this now that it's over, but I do want to give a bit of a sense of perspective: around Day 3 or Day 4, actually, a lot of people had reads that were significantly above average. HST was onto basically the entire team at the time he died. Smocaine was basically onto the entire team. A lot of people were onto Math, several people at at least one point had their sights set on Whiskers and Axle too. There were people who were either ambivalent or not active, which when you flip it around means "they're not really holding strong opinions, so I might as well check to see if they're receptive to the stuff I'm putting down". And, most significantly, at that part of the game a lot of the scum team was bussing each other.

What should have happened there was that town should have started to block up and form a functional unit. This probably was the best chance for town to start cooperating to really push the game in a good direction instead of being a bunch of individual people fighting each to push it in their own directions (or lack thereof). But the way it played out here, scum were able to recover by taking the initiative and simply power-bussing Math, allowing them to maintain control over the flow of the game, and town lost sight of things in general after D4.

I think town would have had a shot at winning this game had they all found each other around D3~D4-ish; not to say they necessarily would have won as the scum team was playing pretty well imo, but at least it would have been a lot more of a contest.

But, onto the next two points.

The second was the Arotws lynch. Arotws was the only claimed protective PR in the game. Moreover, assuming his role to be a fake claim, the setup would have been very imbalanced in favor of scum even after taking the Motion Detector into account. Two masons + a weak investigative + a 1x dayvig is not a substantial amount of town power, at all. It's three clears, one kill and a weak investigative, so effectively, it's a bunch of weak investigation. What's missing? Protection. It really should have been a confirmed town role purely based on the balance of the game, and this should have been resolved as soon as the massclaim completed, which didn't happen, again because for one there was hardly enough coordination to even complete the massclaim but by the time everyone *had* claimed there was so much noise that the focus had shifted too far away from actually figuring out the setup.

The third, and probably the one that threw me for a loop the most as I was watching the game, was no one noticing the fact that

both

Shiro

and

Axle scum slipped, the latter of whom did so in a way that

also

implicated Whiskers.

I kinda assumed Shiro was the null point in which case Nero is scum reading like everyone which is kinda worrisome.
.. wait Nero has Shiro above IaI one of his town reads.

That because Shiro is too adorable to properly scumread ^_^

Other than an "OMG Shiro is lurking scum!" there's not really a reason to suspect her yet. So I won't.

Which technically I didn't even do, I have proper V/LA and everything I was just busy.

Tbh I was about to want to vote TIAM but then I recalled he was the mason soooo it kinda destroyed that read that was forming from his interaction with joey.


I am gonna ISO flubber and then whisker to see what the fuss is about. Is there a specific point that things started going down or like a salad of everything

This was a Shiro post where the conversation went like this.
"The only reason to suspect Shiro is the possibility of them being lurking scum!"
"Hey wait, technically that isn't what I've been doing."

@Whiskers

I believe Rhahs question may be going here

If I'm the only one that's going to make cases this game, then I'm

only ever

going to vote my reads, and good fucking luck to the rest of you.

Spoiler: open if you want heads up onwhat i think is going on

If I'm the only one that's going to make cases this game, then I'm

only ever

going to vote my reads, and good fucking luck to the rest of you.

Whiskers could you quote your Alisae case for me please

Rhahs real question.
Rhah RQ: Why the sudden push for cases now?
Rhah RQ: When back before

on D1

you were prepared to do anything?

Whisk: Alisae was D1 wagon for reactions? To feel people out?

bad news is, Rhah: well that was why you should have been making stuff out of all those posts back then?

Whisk: yeah but if I went all casey and full certain of it, then if it was wrong, that would score double mislynch.
So on D1 your largely caseless vote was as strong as your read.

This was Axle straight up cross posting a post that was supposed to go in the scum PT, and since he was talking to Whiskers, it outed both of them, not just Axle. In fact, after he made this post and realized what he did, he PM'ed me in a panic asking if I should redact the post and modkill him instead (which of course I couldn't do, if you scum slip you just gotta play it as it lies) and spent several RL days freaking out in the scum PT afterward.

A lot of this, imo, also serves as an argument for why really high post rates are a really bad thing. Excessive noise makes it that much harder to do all three of these things - discuss reads clearly with the other players, coordinate claims, and read posts carefully to potentially spot those subtle, yet very incriminating contradictions or slips that come up from time to time. It also makes it harder for the people who are behind on the game or replacing in to get up to date on what's going on, so it makes the people who have fell behind that much more likely to stay behind. Multiple players ended up being affected by this throughout the game.

None of this is intended to take anything away from the scum team. As I said before, I think they were playing pretty well entirely independently on all of this stuff. They were very efficient at doing what they needed to do, to the point where I imagine they would have had a very decent % to win the game even without the entire town imploding on itself, and they did very well fighting off their own lynches/derailing them onto elsewhere on the occasions where a serious wagon did build on one of them. But as for town's fate the way the game played out *here*? It didn't need to be like this.

I already said this before, but seriously, I want to give an extra special thanks to Math, Transcend, Flairs, Lucky2u, Arotws, Viomi, Smocaine and Sauce. All of you. I also wanna thank Nexus and T-Bone, both for listmod stuff in general but because they were both super reliable when I'd freak out and urgently go to them for questions. And Regfan for being a total noob. And all my reviewers, for of course reviewing the game. This game legit passed review with no change in two days. @_@

Last, if you want a trick to finding good fireworks images, search "花火" (hanabi, meaning fireworks) instead of "fireworks".

Thanks everyone for playing. That is all. *bows*

[Lucky2u]

Thanks for modding Pie. I don't normally play large games, and I don't normally replace into games that have over 100 pages already. I was willing to do it to stalk Cabd... and then... well he went and died. Either way I enjoyed it overall.

[Smocaine]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/ ... me-war.gif

What the fuck did I replace into...

Anyway, I see my predecessor already claimed. I Jailkept Mathblade last night because I figured he was scum.

VOTE: Mathblade
Now I have to go to sleep. I'll answer questions in the morning.

This got lynched post math flip el o el

[MathBlade]

Technically I also scumslipped too and didn't actually read the thread first to see Alisae claim miller. I was literally just making up shit to bury the fact my slot unclaimed miller which is autopolicy lol.

[MathBlade]

I really gotta give kudos to my buddies Axle, Transcend, and Whiskers. They had the foresight to bus me when I fell apart because of "reasons" (and that's all I'm saying on that) D3. I'm still debating if I should release the PT but I wasn't in a good frame of mind. So kudos to them and they did things really well. The biggest thing I would say is Whiskers needs to get the scum PT more in lylo.

[pienyan]

^Yeah that was pretty lol. When Nero had voted Lucky, Trans and Axle were both online at the same time multiple times to quickhammer, and there were times where Whiskers was online with them, but Whiskers wasn't checking into the scum PT so that they all would know the three of them were all online, so the lynch never got quickhammered.
It wasn't going to affect the final outcome of the game at that point, but still.

[Transcend]

I fucked my sleeping schedule for no good reason

[Smocaine]

Ask for some editing to be done Mathblade. I wanna read the pt.

[Joey_]

Disgusting performance