Mini Normal 1963 - List Mod Mafia Game Over

[skitter30]

God, someday people will wake up and recognize that if wavemode is up at 3 am on Christmas writing wallposts,

I don't really do Christmas; I'm on break and it's a random Sunday night for me right now and I have some time on my hands. But you do, so we can like take a break for a day so you can like enjoy the holiday?

Idk. I'm not saying my day1 reads were perfect. I'm saying that after a week of evaluating this, those are my reads, and the team you're positing just doesn't make sense to me. I just don't see it.

I'll try to reevaluate it in the morning I guess, since there's compelling evidence on both sides, but that's kinda where my head's at right now.

[wavemode]

I dunno. I think the sticking-to-your-guns and not-understanding-what-I'm-not-understanding is actually kinda townie tbh. Like since you claimed, everything has been internally consistent at least. And while I don't fully understand your POV, or why you made the choices you did, you understand it, and the conviction and exasperation of 'why don't you just understand what I'm saying?' coming from you seems real? I don't know if I explained that well.

You see this? This is called seeing the light. Have you ever wondered why I've literally never been lynched when I was town? Because when I'm town, I *bleed* town. You're seeing what rb saw in Mini 1931 when I was wagoned. You're seeing what Transcend saw in Open 694. You're seeing what mozamis saw in Open 703. In every one of those games the scumteam (and bad town) thought they could take me down, but it took an experienced eye to recognize that I really was in it to win it. I really, really need you to be that experienced eye at this point. This is probably the most strenuous game of mafia I've ever played, so please don't let all this effort have been for nothing. I really, really,

really

don't give half of one iota of a shit about my scum record (because it'f fucking easy and winning as scum means nothing...), but as town, I put my heart and soul into it. I feel like I've done everything I possibly can to show you I'm town here and I really need you to see this.

We can start from the beginning. You can start from literally post #1 and explain to me what exactly is so problematic about my ISO that the literally mountains and mountains of evidence that all say "WAVEMODE IS TOWN" are irrelevant, and I will try to explain to you why I made those posts. But I need you to see this.

[wavemode]

And the fact that he's never reconsidered his support of you is honestly a little odd given that it's MYLO?

implosion has considered a lot of things critically if you actually read his posts... like, actually explain this one to me skitter. Flubber's absurd reasoning for

instantly

digging in his heels in opposition to my claim and literally unwaveringly supporting Seph this entire gameday, is not more weird?

[skitter30]

Ah fuck it. That post kinda bleeds town. I don't think you care about it this much if you're scum, and it just doesn't match your meta and there's no reason for defending TIAM of all people, especially since he flipped goon, and you're too annoyed with me for just not getting it and for not getting you.

Sorry for being inconsiderate; I really do forget about Christmas and I really do mean this. I had started writing up another post before my last before I realized that it's fucking Christmas and that you're spending it trying to convince me of this. And like, there's better things to spend a holiday doing. Like, go to sleep and spend time with your family?

Like I think you need me to hear this: I believe you. I don't think you care this much otherwise.

But like, dude, it's Christmas. Like I'll be around tomorrow and we can talk about it then, but like go to sleep?

[Flubbernugget]

mylo as scum is a lot more exciting than mylo as town

Don't let wave not caring about his family influence this game and he can get fucked for playing that card post-game too

VOTE: wave 22 hours to deadline

[Sergtacos]

for some reason i think flub is scum even though he doesnt have a gun. my gut is telling me hes scum

[Sergtacos]

i really dont know anymore :/

[skitter30]

Heya Serg. I hope you had a good time at Disney!

I think I've come a round to town!wave tbh. I don't think he cares this much as scum, and I don't think he gets this frustrated with me for not getting it either.

I dunno; I can't really tell anymore. What do you want to do?

[Sergtacos]

I had a great time at Disney

I think Flub could still be scum too idk, a scum doctor sounds likely because of a vig.

I think Implo could be scum as well

Wave, eh would scum put that much effort, maybe but sigh, wish wave would told us he was a odd night cop yesterday if he is one and that "check me" is just wtf if he's a cop because imma get a gun on him so....

[skitter30]

Happy you had a good time!

But there has to be scum in wave/seph though, that's the thing. Gah everyone's kinda scummy now :/

And yeah that's kinda a major sticking point, that he lied through mass-claim and told you to check him.

And I feel kinda AtE'd at too :/

But I also don't think he goes through all of this as scum?

I dunno. Who do you think is scummier in {wave/seph}?

[skitter30]

Logically, I think the gamestate points to wave/implosion. I don't think literally *all* my reads are off. However, emotionally, I don't think wave is scum here; I don't think it matters to him that much as scum tbh. Or maybe I just let AtE get to me because I'm really bad at cutting past that.

I dunno who Seph's partner is if he's scum. Like I kinda think Wave is town but I can't really make the gamestate make sense to me cohesively if Seph is scum, especially not with Flubber. Like scum!Seph gets out of RVS by seriously wagoning his partner and grilling him for that joke in the beginning, all while arguing with Two about it? Like do all of them get involved there and entengle themselves with that when people were making such a huge deal about it? And some posts of Two's indicate that Flubber is probably not scum with him? And Seph just randomly forgot about Flubber when writing a readslist at some point? And we started day 3 by *both* of them quickvoting TIAM in possible MYLO?

I just don't see a seph/flubber/two team. Like I'm trying to reevluate as you asked, but the entire game just feels *wrong* to me if it's Seph/Flubber. Idk how to say this better than I am right now. Like it just feels wrong and the entire game literally doesn't make sense to me right now if that's the team. I can see like every other pairing more than that right now, to some degree or another. I just don't see this one.

I can't think of that many problems with a Seph/implosion team, but there's the obvious question of why Implosion is siding with wave right now if he could just win by siding with Seph.

But there really is no reason for wave to gambit for TIAM after all. :/

I kinda still want to lynch implosion. I'm aware that this isn't happening. I still don't think he's town here, and is independently my best guess for scum.

[implosion]

I am sick. But alas.

I dunno who Seph's partner is if he's scum. Like I kinda think Wave is town but I can't really make the gamestate make sense to me cohesively if Seph is scum, especially not with Flubber. Like scum!Seph gets out of RVS by seriously wagoning his partner and grilling him for that joke in the beginning, all while arguing with Two about it?

Lots of factors go in to what scum do in RVS. And I see what you're getting at here, but I think scum with a particular mindset is entirely capable of doing that kind of distancing early on. It's not something I'd expect the average game to contain, but it's definitely something that I'd expect some games to contain.

And we started day 3 by *both* of them quickvoting TIAM in possible MYLO?

I *think* I mentioned why this isn't even that weird. But it isn't weird at all if they were both going into the day with the mindset of assuming TIAM was going down, which is an entirely sensible mindset to have as scum whose scumbuddy just quickhammered. I imagine they probably discussed it in their PT and came to that conclusion.

And the other points you're making about that team are just like, idk. I don't know why you're putting so much weight into them.

I haven't had the focus to read the game very closely; skitter, I remember you asking flub what he thought of my case on him but don't remember you talking about it. What do you think of the case?

[wavemode]

And I feel kinda AtE'd at too :/

To be fair, I've presented pure factual reasoning again and again, and it all points to me being town, but you were still going to lynch me anyway...

Now, there are two problems with this here:

I dunno who Seph's partner is if he's scum. Like I kinda think Wave is town but I can't really make the gamestate make sense to me cohesively if Seph is scum, especially not with Flubber. Like scum!Seph gets out of RVS by seriously wagoning his partner and grilling him for that joke in the beginning, all while arguing with Two about it? Like do all of them get involved there and entengle themselves with that when people were making such a huge deal about it? And some posts of Two's indicate that Flubber is probably not scum with him? And Seph just randomly forgot about Flubber when writing a readslist at some point? And we started day 3 by *both* of them quickvoting TIAM in possible MYLO?

I just don't see a seph/flubber/two team. Like I'm trying to reevluate as you asked, but the entire game just feels *wrong* to me if it's Seph/Flubber. Idk how to say this better than I am right now. Like it just feels wrong and the entire game literally doesn't make sense to me right now if that's the team. I can see like every other pairing more than that right now, to some degree or another. I just don't see this one.

The first is that you're drawing the assumption of this not possibly being the scumteam purely on the basis of an RVS wagon that dissipated quickly (in fact, Seph was the first to unvote) and, honestly, was never really going anywhere in the first place. In other words, if they're scum and were just trying to show distance, it's working on you.

The second is that nothing has technically yet ruled out a Seph-imp team, if you really think about it. If we're convinced of implosion being scum (I'm not, personally, but let's just say for the sake of argument) then choosing to bus Seph once the guilty came out would work in his favor, while it was still uncertain who would side with whom. And suddenly switching sides to vote against me might have raised eyebrows, so he's sticking to his guns. Again, I'm speaking purely hypothetically - I don't really see the scumteam having two goons here, so I don't see scum!imp. But I'm just saying, it's currently highly illogical for you to let your feeling that imp is scum here automatically lead you to believe that the team is necessarily wave-imp, and not any other configuration.

[skitter30]

Fuck it.

VOTE: Seph

Both options feel kinda wrong to me right now, and I keep on changing my mind; I wouldn't be surprised if I switched again tonight.

Wave, if you're scum and AtE'd this out of me, I'm going to be some combo of impressed and really, really pissed.

------

I am sick. But alas.

Feel better!

And the other points you're making about that team are just like, idk. I don't know why you're putting so much weight into them.

Cuz my model of the game literally depends on associatives and relationships players have with each other and that's how I understand it on a fundamental level. I was really fucking hoping there wasn't an SK cuz I literally have no idea how to read the gamestate in multiball.

(here and here)

I haven't had the focus to read the game very closely; skitter, I remember you asking flub what he thought of my case on him but don't remember you talking about it. What do you think of the case?

I don't think it's AI, since as you pointed out, that's kinda where you have to go; I think it reads similarly to your wossi case from earlier in the game; I think you're highlighting things that make him look worse; I actually think he *is* disengaged town (I'm going to pull a wave and say that I can't talk about ongoing games).

necessarily wave-imp, and not any other configuration.

Flubber/imp isn't an option given that you're in a 1v1 with Seph. I think wave/imp is more likely; your interactions today look more partner-y than seph/imp do today.= (or all game even)

[Sergtacos]

why dont we vote for imp?

[skitter30]

I would vote for Imp. It does however just kick the seph/wave thing down the road till tomorrow. We might get another check from you tonight, but if they think you'll get an incriminating result, it'll be you. If not it's me but you'll have a result.

I also don't know if we have the votes for Imp before tomorrow morning? Although I suppose everyone except for wave/imp have said they're willing to vote there and to lynch seph we need implosion to show up tonight; the votes are already there for wave.

For implosion we'd need you/me/seph/flubber.

[skitter30]

I guess I'm voting seph now cuz I really don't think scum!wave goes out on a limb for TIAM here, especially not when he flipped goon. Like I think he'd just bus him and move on (kinda like Seph did ....). Like if TIAM had flipped an important PR, I can kinda see him trying to save him, but I really just don't see why he goes that route here. Like why bother? And it just doesn't fit his meta.

And the exasperation at me just not getting his POV seems kinda genuine.

And some of Seph's posts feel kinda manufactured to agree with me and to tell me what he thinks I want to hear. Worst one is 1369

[Sergtacos]

Honestly if Wave is scum imma hate myself for believing that odd night town claim and imma die tonight, not u skitter.

[skitter30]

I'm still surprised you didn't die last night tbh.

I'm going to be really, really frustrated if wave is scum here and I fell for that. Like the odd-night town thing feels off too. (asking to be investigated, not wanting to check Two, defending implosion)

I dunno. They both seem off to be me.

But wave also has other points in his favor. Namely, there's literally no reason for scum!wave to start defending TIAM there and to create that associative in the first place. And how exasperated/frustrated he is at me right now.

Which option feels better to you? They both make me feel kinda uneasy tbh. Right now I think Seph is scum, but writing this post makes me want to switch again ...

[Sergtacos]

I'm still surprised you didn't die last night tbh.

I'm going to be really, really frustrated if wave is scum here and I fell for that. Like the odd-night town thing feels off too. (asking to be investigated, not wanting to check Two, defending implosion)

I dunno. They both seem off to be me.

But wave also has other points in his favor. Namely, there's literally no reason for scum!wave to start defending TIAM there and to create that associative in the first place. And how exasperated/frustrated he is at me right now.

Which option feels better to you? They both make me feel kinda uneasy tbh. Right now I think Seph is scum, but writing this post makes me want to switch again ...

Well i bet the odds were high to hit scum i guess, i mean Chip would had to hit Imp, Seph, Wave or Flub and its a 50% chance and I bet they wouldn't want to risk that so killed of Chip. Let's read Chip's ISO and see who he wouldve wanted to shoot and who made someone a little scared that there was a vig. lets vote on that person based on that?
only if this was in person sigh im not good with online mafia :/

[skitter30]

Right, I'm an idiot; that's why I made him list his reads yesterday.

Give me a sec.

[skitter30]

Early game:

don't feel neglected.

If you had an instant one shot bullet right now and had to use it, who would you shoot?

Also, what is the best strategy for reading somebody like TwoInAMillion?

I'd shoot the guy my vote is on (wave), obv. Kind of a non-question. Also for neglecting me.

First time playing with TIAM. Strikes me as a lynchbait type. Best way to read is through that filter.

I'm an idiot who forgot she made him say his reads for this express purpose yesterday , but this does look kinda bad for wave:

VOTE: TIAM

This vote looks bad from wave.

Right now I'm thinking wave > Sephi > implosion > flubber, but l I e I said I'm not that confident of my reads in this game. If you all care to wait a bit, I'll reread and post a revised list if necessary...

But there's also the fact that we had planned for him to shoot you if TIAM flipped town; wave was never getting shot yesterday.

Skitter, you're confirmed not to have a gun by a guy I'm instructed to shoot tonight if his 2IAM read doesn't pan out, ie someone who is not locktown himself.

If 2IAM flips green and i shoot Taco and he flips red and I get NKed, at least give serious thought to scum.skitter.

And this is kinda relevant too.

I guess the question is why I didn't vig one of the named players - wave, Taco, 2IAM? Main thing is, i tend to misdirect as vig, so my shots don't get traced back to me. At the very least, I don't shoot anyone I've made remarks of that kind about.

Also, at that point i don't think i was considering Dani specifically.

[skitter30]

And I'm back to wanting wave.

[wavemode]

You do know killing chip doesn't prevent him from killing that night, right? How does theory make sense

[Sergtacos]

VOTE: Wave