Open 703: Masons and Mafia Town Win!

[Alisaes French Maid]

Day 1, VC 11

With 12 Alive it takes 7 to lynch!

wavemode (2) -

Almost50, JunkoChan

Gamma Emerald (1) -

humaneatingmonkey

humaneatingmonkey (1) -

TwoInAMillion

Not Voting (8) -

CommKnight, wavemode, havingfitz, Hongzi, mozamis, Gamma Emerald, MawhrinSkel, rb

Mod Notes

- wavemode is VLA until the 17th
- Gamma Emerald will be VLA from the 21st to the 25th
- havingfitz is VLA until Monday

Deadline:

(expired on 2017-12-22 18:00:00)

[CommKnight]

Everybody needs to stop monkeying around here.

[rb]

there's no way we're lynching gamma lol

catching up on last few pages now

[rb]

speculation on who got shot is pointless wifom

VOTE: CommKnight

but this is h0t

[havingfitz]

Typed this up yesterday but couldn't post. Was right after jz died. Will catch up this morning on game since jz died.
--------------------------------
Caught up reading this morning and then RL got in the way. Was trying to put thoughts to post when noticed scum committed suicide.

Too bad we do not know who jz flinched on. Confirmed town would be nice.

I could see scum being on the jzhenson wagon. Though I was tr'ing Hongzi and slight leaning town on Almost. So that would leave hem. Which could be the case.

I was/am up in the air a bit on Gamma. Not sure they've done anything that townish in the game up to this point and still want to ISO him...but jzhenson's willingness to allow Gamma to be at the brink of being lynched (albeit it only L-1 for a few minutes between posts 213-217) doesn't seem like the level of bussing scum would want to do D1 if it can be helped.

I still plan on getting a catch up post up by tomorrow but here's where my head's at at the moment:

tr - Hongzi, mozamis
lean town - rb, CommKnight, TIAM, A50
needs sorting - Mawhrinskel.........Gamma
suspects - wavemode, Junko, hem

[havingfitz]

OK...read up 4-5 pages from the jz death.

I was a bit tentative on A50 because I felt it wasn't the A50 I was used to. Making a lot of jokes...just getting a different feel from him. My read this morning has been the A50 I am used to. He joins Hongzi and mozamis as a top town read.

That said...I disagree that jz was likely to shoot Gamma and therefore Gamma is 95% confirmed town. jz could have seen something from someone that made him think he was hitting a mason. Regardless of what he may have thought Gamma was...why shoot someone who is a frontrunner to be lynched day 1? And there is the slimmer chance Gamma is scum as well (thought less likely after the jz death than before).

So I'm inclined to let Gamma stay alive for VCA reasons rather than for "I think jz shot him" reasons.

[humaneatingmonkey]

fitz, look at that VCA again. Jz started hopped off the Gamma wagon. Instead of voting his counterwagon, he started another wagon on Junkochan

[humaneatingmonkey]

fitz, look at that VCA again. Jz started hopped off the Gamma wagon. Instead of voting his counterwagon, he started another wagon on Junkochan

Why is this not relevant information? A lot of people miss this when analyzing the Jz-Gamma association.

[wavemode]

VOTE: TwoInAMillion

[havingfitz]

fitz, look at that VCA again. Jz started hopped off the Gamma wagon. Instead of voting his counterwagon, he started another wagon on Junkochan

Agreed...if jz and Gamma were both scum it makes sense that he'd get off Gamma.

But likewise and more telling imo is that jz kept supporting the L-2 Gamma wagon for longer than I think scum would bus for on D1. A span of 80 posts over 3 pages during which time I believe jz posted a few times.

Additionally ..I think L-2 scum!Gamma takes a shot as scum (or fakeclaims mason). I don't think scum!Gamma just let's his wagon roll over him without a fight.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't think he was too adamant about it like how you paint it to be. Look at his ISO, he was barely pushing for Gamma before moving on to Junko. So the argument would be invalid.

Spoiler: Check the shit out of it, this happened sequentially without anything removed or added

I find it difficult to get reads from speculating about the strategy. It's essentially a logic puzzle, and while people can be bad at solving a logic puzzle, analyzing it has very little to do with your alignment. Scum can easily join in on that discussion without having to give anything away. I said this before, but I think there are much more interesting discussions to be had.

I'm kinda offput by the amount of pushback Comm is receiving but A50 has some sound reasoning in his most recent post so I'll think on it a bit.

Like with this post. It's so noncommittal, and reads almost like "I want to have a say in this discussion but I'm not sure where it's gonna go so I'll chime in here and wait it out." A scummy take on (as I see it) a fruitless dialogue.

UNVOTE: rb
VOTE: Gamma Emerald

VOTE: jzhenson93

I don't like how this guy is approaching this game at all. He's an alt account, right?

Popping in tonight to address this, giving things a re-read tomorrow morning to see what comes of it.

I was on mafiascum when I was in high school and, even though I really enjoy playing mafia, I didn't have a mature enough handle on managing my time and ended up chronically replacing out of games.

Now that I'm done with my master's and settling into a more stable schedule, I came back to the site to get back into mafia as a hobby. So I guess you could call me an alt, but there's no main account with sizeable enough experience to really matter.

To be honest I got so behind in this thread that Idk where to start (I did read all of it and basicly monkeymonkey took over the leading position while making a enormous amount of readings I agree with this list, (sorry again for inactivity) I had a whole plan around my first few posts but it's too late for that I think the fact that Gamma wasn't hammered yet means that he is either a mason or scum and I'm inclined to believe that he is scum.

I'm willing to join the wagon once you guys feel confortable with ending the day.

I don't like this at all.

The suspicion referenced in the post you were responding to didn't mention anything about activity at all, but you spend lots of time apologizing for inactivity before addressing the original reason for suspicion. Feels like an attempt to cushion direct responses to criticism with as much sympathetic content as possible.

UNVOTE: Gamma Emerald
VOTE: JunkoChan

The reason I'm popping up on lists of scumreads right now appears to be related to the fact that my reads are being read as "inorganic." My rb vote was not anywhere close to the strongest read I've ever had, but felt more productive than a random vote. Other than that, I'm not sure how to address the claim that my posts are inorganic, except maybe by adding pictures of flowers or something.

I agree that scum would want to shoot instead of waiting for a hammer. That's a new dimension of this setup that I haven't considered. But now that it's out in the open, would it be subject for WIFOM? Gamma's not in danger right now since I haven't had the free time to really push for it. He was in L-1 for only a brief period by me. I want to test that theory.

I wholeheartedly believe that Gamma will flip red here and I don't know why anybody would otherwise.

If you're town, the worst case scenario is that Gamma's flip will open a lot of new reads. Best case is we lynch scum. I think we will.
If you're scum, you ought to be bussing now anyway. Gamma WILL be lynched as long as Moz and I are alive. You bet your ass we will take you down with him.

@TwoInAMillion
@Hongzi
@CommKnight
@MawhrinSkel
@wavemode
@havingfitz

Let's lynch Gamma -right now-.

Be back later with more and wall posts.

[wavemode]

As a general rule I don't vote my townreads for information

Sorry

[Hongzi]

VOTE: wavemode

this is who we should lynch

Gamma's flip would be informative and would confirm some of the WIFOM coming from A50. I'm not saying A50 is wrong either, but there are certain assumptions that need to be made for the scenario to resolve. Scummy play though? wavemode. If wavemode flips red, 2IAM for sure.

[TwoInAMillion]

I'm pretty sure hem in scum, so that makes it likely that Gamma is town/

[wavemode]

VOTE: wavemode

this is who we should lynch

Gamma's flip would be informative and would confirm some of the WIFOM coming from A50. I'm not saying A50 is wrong either, but there are certain assumptions that need to be made for the scenario to resolve. Scummy play though? wavemode. If wavemode flips red, 2IAM for sure.

See, this is funny

Because if someone asks you, hey why is wavemode scummy

You will also have no real answer

Instead you will get indignant and spout a bunch of things are are completely NAI

[havingfitz]

VOTE: wavemode

this is who we should lynch

Hey why is wavemode scummy?

[Hongzi]

VOTE: wavemode

this is who we should lynch

Hey why is wavemode scummy?

Bullshit read list that flips the game state on its head. Unwillingness to share thought process with others beyond circular reasoning. Distanced himself from jz in his read list, then tried to establish some towncred by calling him a bonehead. Now, I think he's voting his partner. No change in why A50, the obvtown even when he scumread him, changed.

As for indignation:

VOTE: wavemode

this is who we should lynch

Gamma's flip would be informative and would confirm some of the WIFOM coming from A50. I'm not saying A50 is wrong either, but there are certain assumptions that need to be made for the scenario to resolve. Scummy play though? wavemode. If wavemode flips red, 2IAM for sure.

See, this is funny

Because if someone asks you, hey why is wavemode scummy

You will also have no real answer

Instead you will get indignant and spout a bunch of things are are completely NAI

I'll keep letting you demonstrate that to the class.

[CommKnight]

VOTE: MawhinSkel

1.) Gamma isn't being lynched today, suck it up.
2.) We already have information without flipping him. Pushing for his flip seems to be you wanting to know if he's VT or Mason.
3.) Skel and Junko are more informational at this point.

[wavemode]

Bullshit read list that flips the game state on its head. Unwillingness to share thought process with others beyond circular reasoning. Distanced himself from jz in his read list, then tried to establish some towncred by calling him a bonehead. Now, I think he's voting his partner.

My prediction was incorrect

These aren't things that are NAI, they're just false statements

Well ok then

[Hongzi]

Bullshit read list that flips the game state on its head. Unwillingness to share thought process with others beyond circular reasoning. Distanced himself from jz in his read list, then tried to establish some towncred by calling him a bonehead. Now, I think he's voting his partner.

My prediction was incorrect

These aren't things that are NAI, they're just false statements

Well ok then

If I'm spitting out such egregiously false stuff, vote for me. All of my analysis is rooted in posts you made and a read of your ISO is all anybody needs to confirm it. You seem deeply unwilling to work with even someone YOU townread.

[wavemode]

lmao, "deeply unwilling"? how do I work with you when your perception of me is colored from the start

Bruh, if I'm scum for coloring jz white instead of red nothing I say at this point will change that

The rest of the stuff is just false or based on faulty assumptions, or on me simply not being as active as other players

[Almost50]

My prediction was incorrect

And yet you don't seem to have reevaluated anything, as proven by you currently casting a vote on TIAM.

If you want us to believe you realized your reads were bad you need to provide a new read list and it had better have some reasoning for how you read people the way you do.

You see, none of us here has a crystal ball. We only see what you post, and we develop our reads accordingly, so help me out here if you're Town.

[wavemode]

Why do you consider TIAM a bad vote

[mozamis]

Why is this not relevant information?

I agree, it IS very relevant infomation. Scum love to bus for a bit, for distancing, and then get off the wagon. "soft bussing".
Come on guys, we're letting scum slip away here.

[Hongzi]

or on me simply not being as active as other players

Which part of my read on you

specifically

references your activity level