Open 705: Polygamist - Game Over

[hyung]

Reposting just so it doesn't get overlooked or lost:

Kop/momo was actually my thought for tomorrow's lynch, since scum isn't you guys and it isn't sheep/Tora.

LOL

Guys Mathdino just admitted he knows cy is a mislynch. If he really thought cy was Mafia, there wouldn't be a tomorrow.

[Mathdino]

If you honest to god after everything that happened think I'm scum, figure out which pair you think I'm lovers with and we'll see if we can compromise. Kop/momo was actually my thought for tomorrow's lynch, since scum isn't you guys and it isn't sheep/Tora.

You missed the real quote btw.

[hyung]

I would also like to note that the front page says Sky has been active but he has been mysteriously absent from this thread this whole time

Could be a coincidence but as long as we get one Maf it's fine.

[Mathdino]

Who exactly are you planning to lynch tomorrow if you actually manage to lynch me?

Restate your entire case on me please.

[Sky_Paladin]

I don't really see it as a scum slip for the same reason I don't accept pretty much every 'townslip' that I see; context is easy to misrep or misread in a forum based game.

I do have some other thoughts that I will share in my next big catch up but I can't really do anything right now.

[Mathdino]

Vote Count

DiamondSentinel (5) - sheepsaysmeep, cytheflyguy, Mathdino, Mathblade, RedFlavor
Mathdino (2) - Sky_Paladin, DiamondSentinel
cytheflyguy (1) - Toranaga
RedFlavor (1) - momo
momo (1) - Lalendra

Not Voting (2) - Kop, hyung

Kop has been prodded

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline for day one is January 25th 7PM PST in (expired on 2018-01-25 19:00:00)

also not like this happened or anything

but you wouldn't know that because you didn't read the game

read or replace out

[Mathdino]

In order to argue I'm scum, you need to argue that me being scum is consistent with some other pair being scum.

For example, I realised that sheep/Tora as scum doesn't make sense paired with most other pairs, and so they're more likely to be town.

Give me a possible pairing, assuming you actually think that was a scumslip.

[DiamondSentinel]

yeah i need to free up some time can we just thunderdome two lynches

I know what I said in the past, but are we just ignoring this scumslip? Like, this is a blatant scumslip.

Can we deal with this here? Please?

[DiamondSentinel]

I don't really see it as a scum slip for the same reason I don't accept pretty much every 'townslip' that I see; context is easy to misrep or misread in a forum based game.

I do have some other thoughts that I will share in my next big catch up but I can't really do anything right now.

Agreed. MathDino's could be a scumslip, but could just as easily not be one.

However, I think that sheep's is almost 100% a scumslip.

[RedFlavor]

yeah i need to free up some time can we just thunderdome two lynches

I know what I said in the past, but are we just ignoring this scumslip? Like, this is a blatant scumslip.

Can we deal with this here? Please?

What is thunderdome

[DiamondSentinel]

yeah i need to free up some time can we just thunderdome two lynches

I know what I said in the past, but are we just ignoring this scumslip? Like, this is a blatant scumslip.

Can we deal with this here? Please?

What is thunderdome

Essentially speedlynch.

[Sky_Paladin]

In order to argue I'm scum, you need to argue that me being scum is consistent with some other pair being scum.

I just want to point out this is not strictly true - if the scum strategy is to fake-bus, then they'd be trying not to be picked as a team with anybody, or, if one of the scum teams is the kop/momo team, it'd be hard to draw associations against them due to their inactivity.

I'm surprised by the sudden votes for Dino. If they had come around 72 hours before now I might have accepted it as people agreeing with Diamond and my push however that timing window has well and truly passed. I'm interested in seeing Lalendra/Cy's responses to the situation.

[Mathdino]

In order to argue I'm scum, you need to argue that me being scum is consistent with some other pair being scum.

I just want to point out this is not strictly true - if the scum strategy is to fake-bus, then they'd be trying not to be picked as a team with anybody, or, if one of the scum teams is the kop/momo team, it'd be hard to draw associations against them due to their inactivity.

I'm surprised by the sudden votes for Dino. If they had come around 72 hours before now I might have accepted it as people agreeing with Diamond and my push however that timing window has well and truly passed. I'm interested in seeing Lalendra/Cy's responses to the situation.

You're taking my argument too far. All I'm telling them is they need to come up with possible partners for me, and if they can't, then the case makes no sense. Sure, it could be scum-me's strategy to fake-bus, but then they need to propose the scenario in which I do.

The sudden votes were, in my understanding,
1. Because I fucked up the VC (it looks like I didn't notice sheep's vote) and they think that I would try to trick someone into hammering (because this ever works).

2. Because I keep punking people to reaction test them and that's

wrong

. hyung seems to think that me trying to clear him as town makes me scum, which is hilarious and, if he knew shit about me, is basically null.

3. Because of a nonsensical scumslip on the levels of "THAT GUY JUST SAID THERE ARE 3 MAFIA, HOW'S HE KNOW THAT" or "HOW DOES THIS GUY KNOW THAT GUY IS TOWN". I think literally all the times I've ever been lynched in my career were as town because I started assuming things that I didn't know.
What they don't realise about me is that I don't scumslip as scum (unless it's multiball which I suck at). A large portion of my scumhunting/townhunting is based on instigating and classifying mistakes and slips. I'm

hyperaware

of that shit as scum. I once-over and rewrite my posts (it's a flaw in my scumgame tbh).
Unfortunately it looks like they're pretty fucking disinterested in reading the game (which honestly warrants replacement) or meta-diving me for this kind of thing.

Honestly fuck a setup that only takes one townteam not playing ball in order to ruin town's majority. With 12 players, that should absolutely never happen.

[Mathdino]

Oh by the way now that RedFlavor answered my questions Sky, I'm willing to talk about the sheep/Tora/Red idea.

I don't think it makes sense. RedFlavor knew that to get on my good side, he had to propose sheep roll the dice. Instead he unironically suggested I do it, which has a high chance of hitting him. I also believe him when he says that he thought town might go along with it. It makes it absolutely stupid of him to take a 30% winrate upon me rolling the dice.

I'm not sure about RedFlavor and other scumteams. RedFlavor with other teams:

Lalendra/cy: It's possible that by the time the cy wagon started up, Red realised that there was too much pushback against my idea that the cy lynch wouldn't actually go through. This is consistent with them dodging the hammer. Honestly this team would be ideal because it means that we don't need either pair to get majority. I'm not sure it makes too much sense though. Red could've easily been like "nah I don't townread sheep like Math does, I'm not sheeping that".

Kop/momo: I don't think they were even active at the same time, so I guess this is possible. This just makes Kop/momo the ideal lynch tomorrow if they could be partners with everyone honestly.

Sky/Diamond: Weirdly, this is consistent, and is only inconsistent with the fact that I'm townreading too many people in this team.

All that said, Red's responses and hyung's reaction ("HEY FUCK YOU FOR TRYING TO PROVE IM TOWN, I COULDVE BEEN SCUM YOU IDIOT" instead of just faking a slip and taking the cred) strongly make me believe in Red/hyung locktown.

Need thoughts on this, Sky.

[Sky_Paladin]

I'm not seeing Red/Sheep at this point tbh either. I'm not sure if I actually ever saw that as a thing outside of them voting with Sheep at one point.

I do see Red/Cy as significantly more likely, with out of the two, Red probably the more scummy with the vote switch on to you and Hyung. I really didn't like that timing. What was Red waiting for? Red's been on the Cy wagon, the Diamond wagon, and now you (although there's no real wagon there, my feeling is that if this is a scum push, more votes will appear). I'm not really buying that Hyung thought he was seriously voting Cy and jumped off right away. I don't like that Red/Cy have been voting together and otherwise looking quite erratic. I'm not suggesting we lynch Red; if I'm right/you're right, the common element there is Cy/Lalendra, so we can both be satisfied with that flip.

Kop/Momo would be a policy: Lynch deadweight afk players. If we can't seem to agree on anything I think we can atleast consolidate there and no real harm is done to town, with a good shot of hitting lurkscum. Last resort however.

Sky/Diamond well you know my opinion on this ^__~ I think the case that we're scum with Cy hinges on the idea that Cy didn't get hammered at L-2 when our slot could have done it. The only other slot that could have done it iirc is Momo/Kop who was afk; and I think sheep had jumped off the wagon (presumably to hammer if range came in). So I do think this case is not as strong compared with the erratic votes.

Sky/Red - Not brought up but I think it bears mentioning because after Sky/Diamond made a big push on Dino, you would think if we were scum more players would have joined in on that. If we were buddies, Red should have responded way earlier when they voted us, and I can't see a realistic scenario where either Red or Cy would leave us within hammer range (Tora had made intent to hammer) if we were scum together.

~~
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on townslip/scumslip because you love them and I don't rate it. However I think your other points have merit.

[cytheflyguy]

Open wolfing basically exactly what Dino has done all game.

I'm probably not going to try to convince Dino and Blade that they are scum with Sheep since they're not inclined to believe me but I'm inspired to do some work to see if I can get the many afk and neutral players out there to vote. I was pretty salty that Blade/Sheep/Dino all decided that I'm scum but then I figured well I've been calling them scum all game, so that's fair.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dino

Aside from my many repeated statements that are trivially accessible in my iso the fact that Cy/Red both showed up to immediately vote for my slot when there was a better wagon around (sheep) should be enough of a concern that players go uh oh.

So to Lalendra/Cy/Momo/et al, what do you think about that?

More importantly, are you happy to go into LYLO tomorrow with Dino, who's stated strat is to arbitrarily pick a player (it could be you) and vote regardless of interactions, vote count analysis etc?

In other words why the fudge are players willing to sheep a slot that has no scum hunting except for badly put together fake reaction tests. Both Dino and Blade ignored my explanations for what was in my private topic which suggests to me that they were not looking for an explanation, they were looking for a target.

I am unwilling to go into LYLO while that slot is still active and if you are interested in playing the game of mafia, you should be putting your votes there.

If you disagree, please provide reasons.

At this point I'd rather play with Dino in a potential LyLo because math is NAI. I'm scum reading you for the same reason I stated, and for that reason my vote will stand. Where your logic kinda fails is that it was more a fight of personal pride then pushing town into submission, and if you argue that that's what is plan was the entire time, then we get into WIFOM territory, which I'd rather not get into.

[cytheflyguy]

The other reason is mainly Dino's attitude and playstyle seems hellbent on his way or the highway and that looks a lot like open wolfing to me.

I'm confused about all these references to wolfing, isn't wolf a 3rd party that only exists in multiball?

Wolf is another word for scum.
But I suspect you were coached to ask.

Honestly, I never knew the proper definition. I suspected as much but I never asked. I don't understand how that's a coached question that can benefit anyone.

[cytheflyguy]

one does not simply get pre-ins for an open
idk how the hell you did it

off topic so i'm going to say something game relevant

drunkposting is a major major towntell so tora is probably still town

also if these guys flip town what's your theory?



anyway off topic, yeah the moment i /in'd to mod i got 1 pre-in. got another from sitechat and got another PM asking about it over the past day

i also have 1 person in the replacement queue

the flavour/style is gonna be cool but idk how they knew that

Is this based off experience? I've played a game before (finished now), where there was a scum who was drunk posting.

[cytheflyguy]

"who should we lynch tomorrow"

phone post

knowing my alignment when Diamond/Sky flips I would say the votes that are the most suspicious on my wagon are Cy/Lalendra followed by Red/whoever red is team with. Cy most suspicious because natural progression should have been a vote on sheep to stay alive but the vote on dia suggests he knew he wasn't in any danger aka scum were already on the cy wagon and he was confident that he would get ~2 votes shifted wherever. Lalendra ambivalent about voting also concerning.

Second place is Sheep/Tora.

Third place is afk slot - possibly scum is super unmotivated this game due to giant walls and killing a blank slot probably just as good or better than random lynch or scumhunting

my preference is hyung because despite promising to catch up they never did. and also iric they are buddies with red who as mentioned above has troubling votes

cut by hyhung lol

Again, I'm not trying to vote for what's easy, I'm trying to vote for what's scum.

[Sky_Paladin]

Again, I'm not trying to vote for what's easy, I'm trying to vote for what's scum.

Dino/Sheep think that you are scum buddies with my slot. From your perspective, which slot would Diamond/Sky be scum buddies with?

[cytheflyguy]

Again, I'm not trying to vote for what's easy, I'm trying to vote for what's scum.

Dino/Sheep think that you are scum buddies with my slot. From your perspective, which slot would Diamond/Sky be scum buddies with?

For the record, I said that before reading the rest of the game.

For your question: I can rule out the Math's, sheep, or myself. Seeing their current reaction, I'd have to rule out Hyung as well.

This would leave Momo's hydra. Which would make sense because of how he caused commotion as you were on the chopping block. However, I can't say anything either way because there's so little content.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

cytheflyguy (5) - Toranaga, Sky_Paladin, Mathdino, sheepsaysmeep, Mathblade
Mathdino (2) - hyung, RedFlavor
sheepsaysmeep (2) - DiamondSentinel, momo
momo (1) - Lalendra
DiamondSentinel (1) - cytheflyguy

Not Voting (1) - Kop

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline for day one is January 25th 7PM PST in (expired on 2018-01-25 19:00:00)

[MathBlade]

Whatever. I'm kinda done dealing with this. When/if you lynch me, I hope for your sake you're scum, or else you need to never play mafia again, considering you're making up reasons to lynch me, and are now going back and forth on your reads on me and your partner.

First it's Sky's wagon hopping. Now they're being super townie. And this is all in the span of under a day.

PEdit: Sky, it's useless. This town hasn't been willing to believe us/townread us since we both took offense at Math's rando-lynch strat. It's not a matter of "I'm right/you're wrong'. It's a matter of "Nobody even bothers trying to listen to what I have to say" at this point. Every god damned game a scum starts a wagon on me and the rest of the town is just like "omg yeah they don't fit current meta lynch with fire" and lo and behold, I flip town. Can't remember the last time I got lynched as scum. Probably SaGa Frontier, when I was unlynchable.
At this point it's just me pissed off, as I am every town game because nobody bothers to try and read me.

This is inaccurate. I am against it as well.

Come vote cy as Diamond already is. Show me you’re not scum. Either we win (yay!) or we have enough information to demolish the information from the previous wagon and who hammers will help determine what’s left.

Show me it isn’t you and sky and cy and Lalendra.

[Mathdino]

Is this based off experience? I've played a game before (finished now), where there was a scum who was drunk posting.

It is, yeah. He also restated his theories well even while drunk.

hyung was also drunkposting IIRC and answered questions well. Unfortunately it sounds like he's a paranoid drunk.

[Mathdino]

@Mod: Request prods on momo and Kop.