Open 705: Polygamist - Game Over

[MathBlade]

Ebwop** really fuck phones

[Mathdino]

@Sky: Yeah. If you 4 are scum there are multiple avenues you could've taken to win that you haven't yet.

1. That 4-man team has me pretty well pocketed by now. Holding off on the lynch on cy/Lalendra holds no utility when you could just get me to lynch Mop tomorrow.

2. You could also lynch cy/Lalendra, encourage Red/hyung on the "scumslip" angle and then get me lynched tomorrow.

3. You could also have just let me kingmake sheep.

4. You could also have helped sheep in going after Mop a long time ago for the "scumslip" thing and then just have me lynch cy tomorrow.

5. If Blue is suspecting Math/sheep as their scumteam of choice, they're playing pretty weirdly by framing sheep as a better lynch than Math.

[Lalendra]

Okay, so from your perspective, and assuming I'm town, who the hell are sheep/Tora buddies with?

I'm not assuming you're town.

[Lalendra]

@Lalendra

Your last 'scumhunting' post you have in that wall is when the vote tally looked like this -

DiamondSentinel (4) - sheepsaysmeep, cytheflyguy, Mathblade, RedFlavor
cytheflyguy (3) - Toranaga, Sky_Paladin, Mathdino
sheepsaysmeep (2) - DiamondSentinel, momo
momo (1) - Lalendra

Not Voting (2) - Kop, hyung

Right now, the tally looks like this

cytheflyguy (6) - Toranaga, Sky_Paladin, Mathdino, sheepsaysmeep, Mathblade, momo
Mathdino (3) - hyung, RedFlavor, Lalendra
sheepsaysmeep (1) - DiamondSentinel
DiamondSentinel (1) - cytheflyguy

Not Voting (1) - Kop

Your stated reason for getting on the Mathdino wagon was because of a scumslip that Hyung brought up.

So when I say "I don't remember you posting anything?" it's because I don't remember you bringing anything new to the table.

My reads haven't changed. I still feel the Math/Math/Sheep/Tora scumteam. And fwiw, I was thinking this before the wagon on Cy took off, so inb4 OMGUS accusations.

[Sky_Paladin]

Thank you. I wanted clarification because I couldn't understand the context in these teams -

that team could pretty easily get on my/Red's good side and speedlynch either Mop or Math.

I was trying to work out how you meant blue/sheep could possibly get a lynch on Math after we'd gotten on your goodside, surely you wouldn't vote for Math - my first thought was 'Did Dino just scumslip that he's not actually partners with Blade, surely I am mistaken'.

Your explanation checks out so I'll go back to my quiet corner for now and watch to see what Lalendra does.

CUT BY LALENDRA well there goes my quiet time.

OK Lalendra. Assume Dino is scum. Who is his scumslot partner?

If you flipped either Dino or the other slot and they come up green, who is your lynch in LYLO?

[Lalendra]

In post 963, Mathdino wrote:
We have a political problem going on. Have you been reading?

I haven't seen any comment from you since before I gave sheep, Tora, and Red that questionnaire a while back.



I have been.

Some point incorrectly scumread you.

Wait...is this your way of explaining a scumslip? Saying you "accidentally" scumread your partner seems a bit fishy to me.

[Sky_Paladin]

You did mention something about thinking about voting Dino the first time the Cy wagon emerged and around the time Diamond/Sky pushed Math over Sheep iirc. Why didn't you join in then?

[Mathdino]

Lalendra that's literally a lie. NAI because I'm pretty convinced you're just not paying attention.

Hi all! Happy New year. Finally got a chance to read and I'm confirming my lover is cy. This is the first time I have played this setup, but as of right now, I'm not getting the best vibes from math. He seems way too eager to peg the ones who followed his early lead on claiming lovers as town. That said, I don't really think that those who claimed after he proposed this approach are the other two scum, because it would be too obvious. I think they were townies who were following his lead. I know it's been said already, but it really feels like the random lynch approach is icky; seems like an easy way to mislynch and then say "oh well, better luck next time." We can't afford that. He even says that if he were confirmed town he would still choose randomly, but I don't believe that's true. The "I know this is scummy but we should do it anyway" just feels like backpedaling. Also not a huge fan of the overly-aggressive "follow the townbloc/sheep me cuz I'm obvtown" tone of his posts thus far. (And before he tries to say this is OMGUS, I feel that I have plenty of reasons for my vote, whereas his is completely arbitrary.)

VOTE: MathDino

First mention of Mathscum, literally says the other people on that page (sheep/Tora) are probably town just following me around. This is after I started pushing sheep's cy vote.

I'm not going to pretend to understand your math fully, but if there are 4 people on the wagon, how do i know that all four of you aren't scum, and the ones not jumping on the wagon aren't town? You could be scum taking a power town approach and espousing the random approach to look neutral. That would make sheep your scum buddy and makes it make sense that you are passively throwing shade at anyone not voting us and low key pressuring people to sheep your vote for town cred. Honestly that all makes so much sense that i would feel like i had the whole game figured out if it wasn't for how much i still don't like momo's slip or his response to it.

And this is the first time that you actually suggested Math/sheep. You were more than a clear lynch option at this point.

[Lalendra]

OK Lalendra. Assume Dino is scum. Who is his scumslot partner?

If you flipped either Dino or the other slot and they come up green, who is your lynch in LYLO?

I still think tora/sheep if Dino flips scum. If we lynch one pair, I would probably start D2 from the pov that I am still scumreading the other pair, but would need to reassess in light of the flip and rethink any associatives I have established between the pairs. However I reeeeally don't think that either pair will flip green.

p-edit: So I'm a lynch option because of these two things: a) my reads changed from the literal first post I made (seems reasonable given the fact that, idk, things have happened? and b) I didn't suggest a Math/sheep scumteam until...over 400 posts ago? That doesn't even make sense.

[Mathdino]

I never said that's why you're a lynch option. You claimed that your Math/Math/sheep/Tora theory predates your wagon's seriousness. I'm telling you you're wrong and are continuing to contribute nothing.

And earlier I was literally asking you to assume I'm town. Who would you be scumreading if you were in my shoes?

On another note, Sky blatantly fishing for scumslips after claiming repeatedly that he doesn't believe in slips strongly indicates hypocritical/doesn't-know-wtf-he's-doing town. Pretty solid on Sky/Diamond-town, I would REALLY like it for Diamond to hammer because I'm pretty sure Kop's not going to now that Diamond threatened him.

[Sky_Paladin]

Well I think there is a difference between going 'Hey, could you explain what you meant here?' and going 'OMG SCUMSLIP' so I thought well, is this it, the holy grail of scumslips that I see before me?

This thing, I don't believe in?

but



So I asked to clarify and, once again, I did not believe in a lie.

[Sky_Paladin]

...........................that is supposed to be the "I want to believe" meme image but apparently I failed to meme :/

[Lalendra]

You're right, I misread, you said "you WERE a lynch option". My bad.

But can you understand why I feel like it's an exercise in futility for me to speculate on what your scumreads would be if you were town, considering I'm pretty thoroughly convinced that you're scum? I'm also not great at speculating on another person's reads (particularly when I disagree with pretty much everything you've done this game).

[sheepsaysmeep]

holy shit what happened here

[Sky_Paladin]

In all seriousness though.

Lalendra; the reason I am interested in your opinion in what you would do if Math flips green is because I want to disassociate your feelings from your strategy, because I am interested in your strategy, aka, how you will win the game. When I see your strategy it helps me to know your alignment.

I'm no stranger to feelings, I raged for the first half of the game at Dino and Sheep over it. But when feelings influence your behavior then the strategy is hard to see and when it's murky and unclear it is hard to see benevolence.

Somewhere in my prior posts I listed off the groups that I could see - there was Dino/Sheep team, and Cy/Red teams. To me these are likely scumclumps. I also saw a third possible Kop/Sheep team.

Aside from my previous metadive that showed sheep has more inline with their scum game, they're in two of my three preferred scumteam picks, so sheep is one of my preferred lynches.

But what if I was wrong about sheep? Hypothetically a sheep wagon could emerge, eg if all of you on Dino switched to Sheep, and you know that I want to lynch sheep - suddenly that's six votes, and you just need to persuade one of the Kop/Momo pair to hammer. If you were serious, it would be E-Z. But then shock, sheep flips green. Here we are in LYLO. What do you do?

It's not acceptable to then auto-vote Dino (or sheep) if Sheep (or Dino) flips green, because a big chunk of your reads and bias is saying that they must be scum together. So when you get the new evidence that says that at least one of them is not scum, that invalidates your position. That means your strategy for LYLO is to just guess, and just guessing is not good enough, because scum can manipulate guesses and feelings.

So to cut a long story short.

We flip Dino and he's green. Who is your pick in LYLO? Hint - it can't be sheep.
We flip Sheep and he's green. Who is your pick in LYLO? Hint - it can't be Dino.

[Lalendra]

I guess the only pair I could see other than those two is momo, because I'm still not a huge fan of that slip earlier and feel it was never explained away. I would be open to not lynching him if he presented more evidence to the contrary, but as of right now, that's my first thought if either of the pairs I scumread are incorrect.

[Sky_Paladin]

Momo and Kop *with who*?

[Mathdino]

The fact that Sky isn't as bloodthirsty for the hammer as I am likely means Blue is town if Lacy flips town.

But seriously, I don't think Lalendra has been present enough to give a workable roadmap for tomorrow. Lynch prevents Llama from having to replace cytheflyguy.

[MathBlade]

In post 963, Mathdino wrote:
We have a political problem going on. Have you been reading?

I haven't seen any comment from you since before I gave sheep, Tora, and Red that questionnaire a while back.



I have been.

Some point incorrectly scumread you.

Wait...is this your way of explaining a scumslip? Saying you "accidentally" scumread your partner seems a bit fishy to me.

1) I can’t scumslip I am town?
2) I was quoting/talking about Diamond’s reads?

I am confused.

[Mathdino]

Mathblade please comment on me and Sky sitting in the thread together listing out all the possible scumteams and what makes sense or not.

[MathBlade]

Ohhh phone autocorrect Some players incorrectly scumread you. Lol

[Lalendra]

There's a reason I said "only". I would have to do a lot of rereading to find the most likely scumpartners with Mop if it wasn't either sheep or dino, because those are the scumpairs that I have felt the most strongly about. Plus, if Momo/Kop are caught scum, it doesn't very much matter who their partners are.

p-edit: I thought you were saying "incorrectly scumread you" to Dino, if that wasn't what you meant then disregard my point entirely.

[Lalendra]

(p-edit directed at Mathblade)

[MathBlade]

Mathblade please comment on me and Sky sitting in the thread together listing out all the possible scumteams and what makes sense or not.

Okay. I feel it is spam.

Cy is scum because of the lack of hammer.

I am at work. If in the absolute extreme case cy flips green then worlds matter. Right now it just doesn’t and there is no evidence to the contrary.

As I said before either you should be voting cy or explaining why cy is town to you.

[sheepsaysmeep]

how could this happen to me