In post 570, Kmd4390 wrote:Guys I'm confused. Mathdino disagrees with like all of my reads and I expected us to be on the same page coming in to this. He says my issues with unabomb can be chalked up to language issues with English (which I actually didn't know) and thinks mulch is scum. I really wanted to vote unabomb but I really don't know. Maybe mulch is ok on a commination of policy and hoping that people who have played with him know him better than I do.
Also I just read page 15 and have nothing new to add.
Here's where it starts for me. The phrasing of "I really wanted to vote unabomb but I really don't know" feels super genuine, and not the kind of way I think scum faking hydra dissonance says it here. The line about him having issues with unabomb that math says can be chalked up to language issues is also probably extremely difficult to fake. To have that line of reasoning occur, you need to actually have that language misunderstanding,
and
have that misunderstanding influence a read, and then have kmd talk to math about it. The only way to fake it is basically if kmd was explaining reasoning to his teammates for all of his fake reads, which is possible but I think moderately less likely than the town explanation.
The stance on Mulch is also not a scum stance IMO and this is a pattern that will continue; saying he might be willing to lynch mulch based on the reads of other people who know him better is just asking for an eventual Mulch lynch if they're buddies. And he later follows through with this when Toranga flips his read on Mulch, as we'll see.
In post 666, Kmd4390 wrote:Mulch, it's your Transcend push that Mathdino doesn't like. He says Transcend's test on you was something he obviously believes. And then there's some stuff about how it seems like something momo would do which I don't really get because I've never played with momo. Also, if he was trying to get you to react badly, why would he back off and vote tor?
implosion wrote:This is something he has explicitly stated he just does sometimes.
Mulch wrote:I have?
Uhh...
Mulch wrote:.... as a town strategy?
So why are you trying to pin it on me as if it's not towny?
Regardless of the fact that I did it this game because I was pretty sure Toranaga took town so it's not exactly random
but still
Uhhhhh. Yeah. If anything, Mulch looks townier from this.
implosion wrote:I mean.
The benefit of doing it as scum is pretty damn apparent from the argument that you make in that thread. You "confirm yourself as town."
I personally think it's meaningless in terms of reading into your alignment, whereas it could potentially be very useful for reading into the alignment of someone without the same meta of having done it before.
When he did it, it said more about tora than about himself though. That's what made me town read Mulch as a result. Why go through that much effort to make someone else obvtown if he was scum?
This argument. I really do not think Kmd makes this argument and continues hammering it over and over and over as scum with Mulch. But the reason why I think this will become apparent more with the frequency with which he reasserts it.
In post 846, Kmd4390 wrote:
Can you be more specific? Especially on the second one because that's likely something his team discussed pre-game. I'm willing to be at least half of the teams talked about who each team would give scum roles to.
This offhandedly doesn't feel like a scum->scum interaction to me.
In post 1047, Kmd4390 wrote: In post 1035, Kagami wrote:So you meant "I don't think scum-mulch claims masons with town-tora?"
I don't think Mulch as scum makes such a big show of how town Tora is.
Kagami wrote:Kmd, the exit is scum-indicative if anything, since town-mulch is reasonably likely to come to a different conclusion from the "reaction test."
The exit means nothing. Like I said, the claim was never sticking unless they were actually masons or scum together and in either of those cases they don't claim in RVS. The exit was inevitable.
Kagami wrote:If you believe the entry makes him town, then thats one thing, but that's not at all what you said.
Nope. It meant nothing to me when he first claimed. My instinct was just to wait and see what Tora says.
Implosion wrote:Basically, free towncred; I can easily see scum-mulch doing this to town-Toranga if he assumes that toranga is going to be townread either way, especially since mulch may have thought of it during pregame/may have been thinking about it before then when he saw he was getting scum role PM. Basically I just don't think there's any negative utility to doing it as scum if he was under the assumption that toranga was going to be obvtown, and there is simple positive utility in it giving him potential towncred/him later being able to say "look at me, i broke my scum meta!"
I sort of agree that it's somewhat unlikely to come from scum mulch who thinks he might have been able to get away with a mislynch on toranga.
I dunno. The way he went into it being regardless of how he flips and don't worry about his own alignment because Tora is confirmed town regardless doesn't make me think he was after any town cred. It seems like if he'd been lynched he'd go "oh well at least I confirmed Tora as town".
Patrick wrote:I feel alot better about implosion and Unabomba. I'm unsure if I'm just seeing ghosts on KMD because he's posted alot of stuff relevant to the game and talked about a good number of people, but I get an empty feeling from the apparent internal turmoil in his team about reads in this game, whereas I feel like I often townread that kind of thing. No clue on Cabd, and Kagami seems entirely unimpressive so far. Probably worth a read of 4:8 Nightless, but that'll have to be for another day. I'd like to hear from Aris, but comments from Cheet/implosion suggest to me that slot is not worth focussing on now.
I mean I wouldn't call it turmoil. Mathdino and I actually sync pretty well together from the little bit of recent experience I have with him. It's just we got opposite impressions on this game when we read it. He has more experience with unabomb than I do so maybe I need to default to him on that read. I think we still disagree on Transcend but we haven't talked much about him. We just disagreed on some reads. It's bound to happen from time to time. I'd be pretty shocked if anyone could honestly tell me that across five games their teams agree on every read. The difference is probably that Mathdino is more vocal and assertive than most people. Which is fine. It just came off wrong I think.
Here we see him continue to argue about Mulch being town because of the toranga masons thing. The reason why I think this is town is that he's drawing so much flak for it, even if that flak isn't really directly throwing shade on kmd's alignment. I think at some point in this back and forth, scum-kmd would accept that this is not an argument for town-mulch that the town is buying, and just give up trying to argue the point. But he keeps at it. He makes this a sort of central part of the way he's approaching coming up with reads in the game. And I don't think he'd feel like he could get away with that as scum. I think as scum, he backs off from this point eventually, while still keeping Mulch as town or nulltown so that he doesn't have to flow toward a wagon if one crops up.
In post 961, Kmd4390 wrote: In post 956, UnaBombaH wrote: In post 946, Kmd4390 wrote:Your OMGUS is showing with your comments at both cheer and myself and then your vote.
I would never think "you suck" about players who are more experienced and sound players than I might ever be.
My comments towards you and "cheer" (cheetory?) are based solely on your posts/actions in the game.
I do not think you suck, I think your actions might have scummy motivations.
![:]](./images/smilies/icon_smiling.png "Cheerful Smile")
Yeah that was cheet. Auto correct sucks. But yeah Mathdino says OMGUS is something town-you does and it seems like your reads are based entirely on that despite what you say. I'll reluctantly:
Unvote, Vote Transcend
He wants me to vote mulch but that would be purely policy for me and I don't at all love that idea.
From Mathdino, paraphrased:
Una
- Drop your Aris scum read. He would never pick a scum role. However, you pushing this does show that you are town.
-team mafia is town sided. Mulch's play takes away from that because people not in the game won't bother to keep up. Saying town loses if we mislynch mulch is BS. What are your thoughts on mulch vs transcend?
- you're probably right about scum hiding in the chaos. Lynch either a spammer or a lurker.
-youre being scum read for being awkward and uncharismatic and not seeming to care who the Lynch is.
-this slot is backed by our reads and meta knowledge and you'll be able to tell if it's a scum slot by our accuracy.
"He wants me to vote mulch but that would be purely policy for me and I don't at all love that idea."
Does he really say that line as scum with mulch?
I really think the answer is no. Can't explain why in depth but. Judge for yourself.
In post 2131, Kmd4390 wrote:Tora, why is Mulch scum? This is important. There's a chance I trust you and switch wagons.
In post 2139, Kmd4390 wrote: In post 2136, Mulch wrote: In post 2134, Kmd4390 wrote: In post 2132, Mulch wrote: In post 2131, Kmd4390 wrote:Tora, why is Mulch scum? This is important. There's a chance I trust you and switch wagons.
Don't worry he'll switch eventually or else lolhim and I get to rub it in his face forever
Then why'd you call it a death sentence for you?
Because he knows how to read me so if he continues to say I'm scum I'm not even going to fight it
Ok.
Unvote, Vote Mulch
Tora wrote:I skimmed his ISO and the content is lacking. I disliked transcend's push on him to the point of hard scumreading transcend, but it's not strong enough to give mulch a pass. he didn't scumhunt. I ask for two ISOs, he gives me two likely town ISOs. your ISO doesn't need anyone reviewing it. all of those mathdino stances are unlikely to come from scum, period. he hasn't delivered. town mulch is better than this. I'm holding him to this standard and think his lynch is ok this gameday.
I think una and implosion should be looked at.
I think I like this guy.
In post 2153, Kmd4390 wrote:Well that was short lived.
Unvote, Vote Kagami
I still don't like mulch's answer to me for the record.
And here we see him follow through with his promise to trust people who can read Mulch better than he can. This shows it wasn't an empty promise, even if he immediately unvoted Mulch. And even then I think he might be afraid that the immediate vote-unvote of a scumbuddy would draw ire toward the slot in the event of his own flip.
