Rocky Horror Picture Show - players suck, game over

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Bonn

Voting is practically a waste regardless, mutant.

[mutantdevle]

Yeah and if we all had that mentality then we'd have no hope of winning.

[Varsoon]

Mutant,
I don't know what your win condition is. Hell, I don't even know what mine is. All I can figure is that I win this game solely by surviving to the end.
In a game where survival is literally the ONLY thing I have to aspire towards, why the fuck would I care about anything beyond that?
I'm in a 'winning' state by goddamn default.

@Drixx: Block the person with kills unless you can be sure they'll shoot cult. Rationale for it is what I just wrote.

[Chickadee]

Do not block me. I have another action I can take aside from killing. I've claimed as much.

[mutantdevle]

I'm under the impression (and I think most people are too) that us neutrals don't win by simply surviving. We have to survive AND not let cult win. If either cult wins, we don't. If we die, we can't win either. The game ends once everyone is either dead or immunised. A cult must hold the majority to win, it's not whichever cult gets the highest number of members. If we have the majority instead, we win. That's why it's crucial to immunise the right people, to keep our numbers and hence increase the chance we win.

I don't remember who it was, but someone told us this earlier and that they found out from asking the mod. So if you're in doubt, then ask the mod about it yourself.

[SnarkySnowman]

I can confirm that neutrals cannot win by merely surviving, mutant

[Gamma Emerald]

Mutant,
I don't know what your win condition is. Hell, I don't even know what mine is. All I can figure is that I win this game solely by surviving to the end.
In a game where survival is literally the ONLY thing I have to aspire towards, why the fuck would I care about anything beyond that?
I'm in a 'winning' state by goddamn default.

@Drixx: Block the person with kills unless you can be sure they'll shoot cult. Rationale for it is what I just wrote.

I don't think it's actually "neutral survivor", but a role that's meant to be like "you win if no group faction wins"
And given that kills are the only way of getting rid of players I don't want kills blocked ever.

[Lifthrasil]

It could be scum baiting immunize votes

I know. But so could be any other train. And honestly, I don't know who to vote for. You seem to be playing your normal town game, but you don't want to be immunized. I don't want to vote Venmar or Srceenplay and I have no read whatsoever on Boonskiies. ...

Ah well, without a successful vote this play phase might never end and the game might become even more stuck than it is already. So I'll just tag along on Boon.

VOTE: Boonskiies

[Cerberus v666]

VOTE: Boonskies

[Chickadee]

VOTE: Boonskies

[Almost50]

VOTE: Boon

Not fully convinced, but it's better than not voting anyone this phase.

[Srceenplay]

VOTE: boon

[Varsoon]

I'm under the impression

Stopped reading there
Keep assuming how the setup works and bumbling in the dark.
We're already past critical mass on possible recruits, so cult could just swing any 'immune' vote where they want.
Like on Boonskies.
VOTE: Boon

[mutantdevle]

Well Varsoon maybe if you were actually reading things you'd know you don't win by simply surviving and that the cults are not past critical mass.

2 or 3 people have already confirmed that we don't win by simply surviving and you have the option to clarify it with the mod if you wish. "I'm under the impression" just means that I have not clarified it for myself so I don't know 100% for certain but the point is I don't need to. As for being past critical mass:

So, if I'm tracking, there are now 5 cult members.

1 team of 2 and 1 team of 3
or
1 team of 1 and 1 team of 4

5 players, either split into 2v3 or 4v1, are not going to have that much swing on us.

Like dude, why you gotta drag everyone down by reinstating how pointless our power is over and over again? Can't you just accept what little power we collectively have and try to use that as best to our advantage as possible?


VOTE: boonskies

[Varsoon]

I do read things, I just don't make worthless assumptions about the gamestate based off of knowledge that isn't hard-confirmed.
I sincerely hope that you are on the losing side of this game, if only for your goddamn hubris.

[mutantdevle]

I'm not being overconfident in my words, I'm simply trying to do

something

. I've been trying to boost morale all game, it's worked with some people, but not with others. We shouldn't just be giving up and doing things randomly just because nothing is hard confirmed, we should be throwing theories around and trying to make connections to help game solve. Who cares if we don't get everything right, theorising and considering a range of possibilities is part of the fun of mafia. When you have a read on someone in a standard mafia game, you don't always have hard evidence because you're not supposed to. Mafia is not a game of absolutes. The extent of that this game may be uncomfortable for you but that shouldn't mean you should just give up and not care.

[Boonskiies]

Not for very much longer....

[Boonskiies]

Getting voted means i become immune to being cult, right? So if both cults are wiped out, I win?

[Varsoon]

By not caring, I ensure my continued survival.
You're a rube for caring about things.

[Gamma Emerald]

no ur a rube for constantly bashing any pro-town play

[Varsoon]

There is no town, chumpus wumpus.

I've already presented the optimal strat for winning this games, you cards just didn't care to listen then.

Now my number one goal is to survive to endgame. So long as I'm not culted, I win if we're in the 'great' state you rhombuses keep slanting off about.

[Varsoon]

If I'm suuuuuch a chore to be around, why don't you just lynch me, then?
Oh, wait, you can't, sucks to suck.

Spend another 60 pages speculating in the dark about a game three people are actually capable of playing. IF you end up actually wanting advice on how to win this or worthwhile input from my end, I'll be around, but I'm not going to be a part of the masturbatory peanut gallery that is the entire going-ons of the usual 'play' phase thread.

[Cerberus v666]

If I'm suuuuuch a chore to be around, why don't you just lynch me, then?
Oh, wait, you can't, sucks to suck.

Spend another 60 pages speculating in the dark about a game three people are actually capable of playing. IF you end up actually wanting advice on how to win this or worthwhile input from my end, I'll be around, but I'm not going to be a part of the masturbatory peanut gallery that is the entire going-ons of the usual 'play' phase thread.

Three people?

Which three?

[Varsoon]

Cult Leader A
Cult Leader B
Survival Faction PR

There's a chance there's a second Survival Faction PR that actually has some degree of game control as well.
Consider the previous setup from this mod; Maplewood Village. In that game, which was a revision of a setup he liked and ran before, featured only a handful of roles that actually had a level of control over the gamestate and knowledge of what was going on. Everyone else was left blindly ambling about, hoping they could win with what little role info and setup info they had. Mutantdevle tried to make the case that mafia IS a game of working out a solution to a problemset with unknown variables, but there's a huge disparity between the public knowledge and power balance in a regular game of mafia compared to the kinds of games Drealmerz likes to design.

Now, Cerb, you should know I don't like putting in work. I hate it. I get good (maybe, arguably good, but likely not) ideas but executing them always feels like a pain.
Go back through and see which players were willing to vote for any immunize target and who did not vote for anyone. You'll likely find your Cult Leaders in the will-vote-for-anyone bracket during Day 1 or 2, but once they start building up their cult, they are far less likely to vote to immunize people already on their side. If you go check the vote patterns, which you'll have to actually do by sorting through the game thread because Drealmerz posts a VC about once every blue moon (okay lol we've gotten 20 VCs within 72 pages, so it's not TERRIBLE but it's bad if you care to use to calculate what I'm proposing).

As far as WHO the cult leaders are, I don't think they're anyone who claimed power so far, so long as we're assuming the vig is town-sided.

[Varsoon]

Oh, but, yeah, you slackers, keep insisting 'Varsoon is not reading or following the game he is just antitown'.
I'm plenty present. I'm snagging pagetops to ensure that I at least stay read up.
It's just that there is far too little agency or incentive given to me to gamesolve, given what we definitively know about the setup.
Consider furthermore that, since I could be recruited at any time, that gamesolving AGAINST cult could end up being my own undoing, I'm further put in a position where actively playing the game to work towards a traditional 'town' victory is a lot of effort towards a goal that had no clear cut indications of helping me achieve my own wincon and, actually, may be detrimental against my wincon should I ever get culted.

I've got more cards that I haven't played and more thoughts that I won't post until post-game, very likely. I'm playing the way that I am because it ensures MYSELF the highest likelihood of victory. Don't like it? Lynch me.