Mini 1991: Taking Justice Into Our Own Hands (Town Win)

[Beefster]

Official Vote Count 1-5

Lexa

(5): Alexcellent, Mumble, havingfitz, northsidegal, numberQ

(L-2)

Mumble

(4): Awoo, Cedrick, Guy_Named_Riggs, rb

Alexcellent

(1): Lexa

Cedrick

(1): Papa Zito

Not Voting

(2): Luca Blight, Havo

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-02-23 09:00:00)

[Lexa]

12 pages ought to be enough, let's see what we got

[Havo]

Luca, Havo and Papa:

What are your reads on Lexa and Mumble?

Mumbles is usually scummy to me. I have a hard time reading him. No difference here.

Lexa just doesn’t give me a scum vibe. But no one has as of yet.

[Lexa]

Yeah yeah wall posts scummy zzz whatever they work for me

(I will preface by saying that the wall contains my thought process as I go through the thread so it might be hard to follow or so I've had that complaint before anyway)

numberq's post 6 piggybacking off of fitz's rvs vote, suggests a preference for building wagons possibly to create content, watch future votes for wagon building vs wagon creating coherence

Havo's disclaimer in 7...hmm. By definition it can't be alignment indicative but could it imply something about his state of mind that he felt the need to post the disclaimer in the first place? Inherently it has to lean town because while both alignments want to notify the game of their intent here, scum can't be as willing to get policy lynched. If future posts hold coherent with a town mindset this slot probably sorts town. The more pressing inference is of his playstyle, the severe disagreement with D1 as a concept and the refusal to give reads suggests that Havo either is unconfident with or doesn't believe in independent behaviour as reliably indicating alignment and prefers either role results or flip associations to sort people. If Havo starts attempting to sort people based on behavioural reads that could be a scum indication.

Riggs at post 26 still feels weird. Yeah it's only page two but to this point the game is already out of RVS with a 3 vote wagon on Havo and two previous votes sitting on mumble, plus a lot of relevant posts related to Havo's principle. Entering by ignoring all of that is...weird...but I'm not certain if it's alignment indicative. Have to imagine it signifies either cautious mafia or busy/unaware town. Could be a relevant marker but it seems more likely that he would have read the 25 posts than not.

Huh then he follows up at 30 by voting Havo after prompting by zito. Seems to support both narratives, either not noticing the wagon or not wanting to join until prompted. Possibly self-conscious? Feeling awkward for not having joined or commented on the existing wagon?

q is feeling gross. His comment to cedrick in #40 feels tonally different from the rest of his posts so far and his assertion in #54 of fitz catching me in a contradiction is an extremely generous interpretation if he's town.

fitz 55 seems fine on the surface but that's kind of the problem I have with it, very surface level reasoning. Seems more interested in pointing out things to use as ammunition rather than thinking about why that thing exists. Note to check future posts for this degree of thinking.

Hm interesting. NSGs vote on me at 67 seemed fine at the time, if weird based on assuming a scum team with cedrick, but in retrospect looks rather manufactured. Seems to imply that a users join date is information that every user should always be aware of and that not factoring that into your posts can be a reason to be scum. Reasoning seems flaky to me at best unless someone is known to specifically consider that information. FoS here.

The piggyback by q at 72 is equally bad, especially given his previous stretch of a situation. Scum lean.

At 76 cedrick hasn't really provided any content thats alignment indicative but I like he way his tone comes off. Every post I've seen him make is clear and direct in its meaning and implication, might be biased because that makes it easy to see where his thought process is at on a specific topic, but it feels very townie.

Ah a case at 79! I liked this by Awoo on numberq the first time let's see if it holds up. 1: tonal reads are pretty subjective so sure, reasonable. 2: can't say I agree with his citation for asking unnecessary questions to look town, requests for info are NAI to me and there's other kinds of questions, like asking someone to clarify an apparent position or easy 1v1 questions that imply "trying to look town" more reliably. 3: for example, calling out 31 for the easy "you said what?" post on an obvious meme is a much better indicator. 4: agree on the volume of useless posts, don't agree it's AI particularly given the volume of discussion Havo's principle caused. 5: hard agree that 74 is the LAMIST post to ever LAM. Overall: very valid reasoning and a strong case to make for page four. That being said, similar to fitz a lot of this is fairly surface level and could be manipulation of qs positions, though I read him fairly similarly so I'm inclined to put this as a town lean.

q's 86 pedit is still hilariously awful

NSG's 110 is something of a follow up to 67 and curiously enough actually makes me think she's town. The assumption that I would have had access to information from a pre-game discussion thread is a pretty large leap of logic to make and one that I would expect her to know wouldn't hold up if she were in fact scum but doubling down on this tack here somewhat suggests that she thinks she's figured out a tell and isn't going to drop it, it's somewhat tunnel vision-y in combo with 67 and suggests a coherent mindset in scumhunting. Solid town lean after this.

Ah. It's mumble. Note to self: probably scum but be careful of bias

But seriously what the fuck is this opening. 119: "Hi I don't feel like reading tell me who to vote". 120: "k I read here's a vote on a main wagon". 122: "Whoa fuck you hahaa I got you you OMGUSer ggggg!!!" Really, really, just want to call this aggro scum and call it a day but I can't discount acerbic town, they get me every friggin time.

Mumble's 125 is kinda confusing though, on the one hand you have massive assumptions creating a justification for voting me, but on the other hand this argument is also extremely self-centered which is typically more town indicative. "You don't care about these people but you care about ME" kinda suggests the same thing as NSG, that they think they might have got someone and they're going to tunnel in on it no matter what.

alex and rb entered in the past 25 posts too with fairly NAI posts but with alex needing follow up for the complete lack of content

Reading Mumble's posts over is pissing me off again :/

Right so Mumble is being a dick while pushing me in 132/135/137, sure fine, whatever. It's posts like 140 that really support the aggro scum theory: it's Mumble who comes up with the idea that I'm voting him (and not alex) for thinking that they're scum. Except that at no point did I suggest he was scummy, my vote and follow up was entirely about getting him to post content. It's Mumble who creates my supposed mindset and it's Mumble who uses that creation as a means to attack me for voting him (and not alex). He's manipulated the situation and filled in gaps with his own ideas in order to put me on the defensive and discredit my vote on him. Like there's some behavioural considerations that he might be town but fuck that, this is scum. Looks a lot less obtuse and a lot more manipulative with a clear head looking at it.
VOTE: Mumble

Note to self, 1v1 Luca. 178 suggests that he's having thoughts and engaging in some way but it's all surface level, need to see the thought process.

Note to self, keep an eye on potential buddying from Cedrick (i.e. 179)

Bunch of rb posts through 180s-190s, interesting content but hard to sort, very sparse. The reasonings against me/mumbles seem based in logic if nothing else.

Awoo has a bunch of posts up to and including 201 that are notable but don't engender much in the way of commentary. Nothing specifically alignment indicative but all very positive in terms of tone.

rb's 206 is the first post of his that's specifically notable with his commentary of false positives and that I really like because it suggests he's thinking about alignments at a higher level more likely to be town.

(kinda burnt out and took a break here)

Riggs is back at 227 with a curious vote on mumble, it's now the second time he shows up and makes a relatively empty post onto one of the main wagons. It does seem to provide some light support for the cautious mafia theory since it's impossible to argue he's unaware here. It's also curious to me because it seems like an awkward way to enter into a wagon on your scumbuddy, very low committal when your justification is "has been rubbing me the wrong way". Comfortable putting riggs in my scum pile but I'm also thinking that riggs isn't scum if mumble is and if mumble is town riggs is scum. Don't think town riggs impacts mumble's alignment yet.

Luca's 244 is a good look. Valid arguments and reasoning in response to NSG's case on Cedrick, but doesn't use it as a segue into a vote or case on NSG.

Alexcellent is lock town for me. 276 is a really strong thought process, a very natural read devlopment and a coherent mindset justifying their read on me. 278 is even better, a very high level reasoning trying to get at numberq's mindset when posting. Straightforward, rational, no exaggeration or misdirection, I would be shocked if this flipped scum.

Town

Alexcellent

Awoo

northsidegal

Cedrick

rb

Luca Blight

Havo

Papa Zito

havingfitz

Riggs

numberQ

Mumble

Scum

scum on my wagon are within mumble / q / fitz, alex vote is pure
mumble wagon looks good under the assumption that mumble/riggs aren't scum together, green flip mumble=scum riggs every time

need to see more from luca/havo in particular

[havingfitz]

UNVOTE:

[Papa Zito]

UNVOTE:

whyzat

[havingfitz]

UNVOTE:

whyzat

I thought her reads post was worth not being at L-2.
And I want to peruse a few other players.

[Papa Zito]

Just a coincidence that her giant wall led her to hop on the largest opposing wagon amirite

[havingfitz]

Just a coincidence that her giant wall led her to hop on the largest opposing wagon amirite

She was the first non-rvs vote on Mumble. And her vote on Alexcellent wasn't going anywhere. Not even sure how serious that vote was. And now he's a tr for Lexa. So I've no problem with the move to Mumble.

I just need to look a few people over in iso before I revote.

[rb]

Yeah if I'm sparse it's because I'm working a lot lately and I really just have no energy to read and analyze.

[Papa Zito]

UNVOTE:

whyzat

I thought her reads post was worth not being at L-2.

what was your favorite part

[havingfitz]

The fact she was exerting some effort.
I thought her final reads list was decent with the exception of my position on it.
The more in depth opinionations will require a more in depth review when able.

What did you think of it aside from the move to Mumble?

[Papa Zito]

She made a bunch of references to posts without links or quotes so it's gonna take me time to parse. I did enjoy my color, I've been campaigning for a similar color for the chat mods for ages now.

[Lexa]

She made a bunch of references to posts without links or quotes so it's gonna take me time to parse. I did enjoy my color, I've been campaigning for a similar color for the chat mods for ages now.

Oops sorry meant to go back and fill those in

[rb]

Zito you rolled scum didn't you

[rb]

Luca Blight and Havo with no vote down.

Pls play the game friends

[Papa Zito]

Nah my dude I'm having way too much for fun that.

[rb]

ill dayvig u if u dont obvtown!!!!!

[Lexa]

The fact she was exerting some effort.
I thought her final reads list was decent with the exception of my position on it.
The more in depth opinionations will require a more in depth review when able.

What did you think of it aside from the move to Mumble?

Is effort posting enough to shift your opinion of someone? What if a scum read of yours effort posts?

[Awoo]

Papa zito I don't think you are actually having fun in this game from reading your posts and behavior (getting prodded). You better start funtelling fast if that's your claim.
====================================================
NOW I WILL ANSWER NSG!!!!!!!!!

can you clarify why what he's doing is scum searching for reasons and not just sorting low content slots? from what i understand you're saying that the answers to his questions don't actually help him to sort people, but i didn't really get the same feeling looking over his posts and i'd like to hear this in more specifics from you. what i would levy against numberq is asking questions that he doesn't care about the answers to, not whose answers are meaningless.

Good catch on the "asking questions without care of the answers", I didn't specifically notice that.

I believe the intent of these posts is (throwing suspicion/scouting out mislynch targets) because of the attitude and language he uses with respect to these slots. I will demonstrate below.

In fact this ties right in with what you said about asking questions without care for the answers, because the true intent is not to SORT but rather (throwing suspicion/scouting out mislynch targets), as answers would help sort.

Taken from 260

(Lexa and Alex are anagrams of each other, scumteam confirmed)

Unfunny forced humor calling a low content (At the time) slot scum.

Kind of null to me. He's making some relevant observations, but that's pretty much all they are.

I'm not seeing any real analysis

from his posts.

His read on rb in 178 is especially hilarious

- he says rb's posting is very surface level, but

I haven't seen any better from Luca himself

in his 4 posts.

Is this how you talk about a slot that is "kind of null"? Throwing suspicion (1).

Bold part is from me, what makes the observation worthwhile if it's not worth putting stock in? How much stock is the limit before it starts getting ridiculous?

I've already expressed my concerns, this line is 100% trash just asking questions for its own sake.

Taken from 261

(On fitz' reaction to rb asking the entire game about thier read on luca)
Why are you asking about this post over everything else in the game?

But seriously, what are you hoping to gain from rb answering this?

Something about this posts feels weird, I'm going to copy Awoo's case against me and say fitz is asking a lot of questions so he looks town. I'm having trouble putting a scumhunting mindset behind most of his posts so far, 254 is just the most stand out example that caught my attention. 55 is somewhat of an exception, but it's only justifying a vote he already placed.

"I'm having trouble putting a scumhunting mindset behind someone with 6 posts, 4 of which are from RVS wagon and 1 is a V/LA announcement"
"I'm having trouble townreading a null slot therefore its a scumread"

This is not a town thought process. It's hard to really point to things specifically but this is really my point about the whole "searching for reasons to scumread people rather then sort" thing: He's already calling them scum before he's sorted them!
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Alex hasn't posted? He's scum. Haha jk just being ironic .
Fitz is V/LA since RVS? He's scum. I just can't see town asking a question about something strange, smh.
Luca has only 4 posts? He's mostly null but like you know i cant really town read him like you know he isnt really that town you know? Yeah.
============================================
"Your weakass shade is shady"
- fitz

I cant hold back anymore this is my vote until he dies!!!!!!! I'm sorry mumble! I-I can't do this anymore!!!! I have to be true to myself!!

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VOTE: numberQ

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[rb]

I like that case, and I'll hammer anyone of Mumble/numberQ/Lexa right now

[havingfitz]

Is effort posting enough to shift your opinion of someone?

no. But enough based on your reads for me to step you back a bit from getting lynched while I figure what I want to do next. Which could be putting my vote back where it was. idk.

[rb]

wait why does someone's reads make you think theyre not scum?

scum can have 'good reads' and town can have bad reads. this seems bad to me

[havingfitz]

wait why does someone's reads make you think theyre not scum?

I'm not saying Lexa can't be scum.

I'm saying I don't want to leave her at L-2 while I consider her comments and look at others.

And her reads are close in line with my current mindset (minus me), so that synchronization is something I consider as well.

[rb]

I dont quite understand how no vote is better but anyway