Mafiascum.net

I put this in the Open Setup whatever thread MathDino made but I'm putting it here for prosperity.

13p setup
D6 Mafia is a 13-player Semi-Open Variable setup designed to offer a more balanced experience compared to C9++.
This was a setup that came from MU and was made by a user named Visorslash. I'm just posting it because I think its a better C9++

Town Power Roles:

To determine the town power roles, roll a die six times and mark down the numbers. Each roll corresponds to a grouping below.

1-3: Investigative
4-5: Protective
6: Killing

Mark down the number of each grouping and add the corresponding roles from the table below.

* = Here is the description for the Role Oracle: During the night you can target someone. If you were to die, the last person you targetted will have their role revealed publicly.

Mafia Power:
For the mafia power roles, take the number of town power roles minus one, then roll a die that many times and add the role(s) it lands on. Mafia Goons are added to bring the number of mafia up to three.

Mafia Power
Roleblocker
Roleblocker
Jailkeeper
Rolecop
Tracker
Watcher

On its face, it looks good, and it's mechanically interesting for sure.

In practice, there are a few setups it creates that would be questionable.

For example, RoleCop/Roleblocker vs Scum Roleblocker is entirely scumsided. So is Tracker/Doctor vs Scum Roleblocker/Jailkeeper/Watcher.

MS balances differently than MU (long deadlines, majority lynch, easier to PR hunt). It would have to be balanced toward MS standards (basically making it MU-townsided) in order to run well in succession.

Other than that, just a few gripes, like
- Role Cop really doesn't do anything but search for SPR
- Jailkeeper is IMO worse than Doc and Roleblocker. Roleblocker is probably better than both depending on the setup and day.
- High numbers in Protective and Killing lead to icky counterclaim scenarios (although high numbers in Killing will just never happen by probability)
-

When does the IC activate?

In post 2, beeboy wrote:When does the IC activate?

Triggered when you want to reveal > D1 reveal

ok I'ma get to this.

Balance between MU and MS has nothing to do with deadlines. MU is a more meta reliant community so that drives town winrates up there up.
MS has a ton of replacements and a larger influx of newer players.
Like, deadline and majority don't really have a general impact on gameplay.
Meta does, and people dismiss meta for ~reasons~
This isn't the thread for this.

When it comes to Tracker/Doc vs Scum PR I personally like, really hate Tracker/Doc vs Goons. Like, that isn't fun to play if you're scum because its essentially follow the cop thats not follow the cop.
Rolecop + RB vs RB honestly at that point is kinda Mountaious or maybe even townsided considering
> Rolecop doesn't become useful until one RB flips.
> Town RB can stop a kill.
So I'm not really seeing how that's scumsided?

Rolecop can also clear some TPR I think?
JK is kinda way stronger then the rb when it comes to lategame.

The overall balance is probably ok for MU but fairly problematic for MS.

In particular, the situations where scum get 1-2 PRs makes it particularly difficult on town. Scum don't need a roleblocker, rolecop, or anything else (much less two of them) in a 10/3 against twn power like:

IC, bodyguard, vig (in that world, scum get TWO PRs)
Role oracle (very low utility PR), doctor, 2-shot vig (again, here scum get two PRs)
tracker, doctor (in my first designed 10/3 mini normal, I had tracker doctor AND vig AND 1-shot BP against iirc an encryptor and a goon and a 1-shot strongman, and scum won fairly easily anyway... and I've come to realize that the setup was basically balanced for mini normals against an all goon team with daytalk and they didn't necessarily need the 1-shot strongman)
role oracle, jailkeeper
etc

Honestly, for MS I'd kind of think that the ONLY rand with appropriate balance is the n0 cop against three goons... and even there scum have something of an information advantage in that there are zero scum PRs and therefore it MUST be the n0 cop rand.

I might want to run this soon. Do you guys think it's balanced enough?

Looks pretty scumsided to me. The town investigation roles before parity cop are super weak.

Is it fixable? Maybe you could replace some roles, but I'm not sure which.
Or you could only choose to give mafia one PR idk

This seems to be less fun to play, there is no claim space for mafia.
Also power curve is really strange. IC & ROracle are almost guaranteed to have protection role (1-0,3^4= 99,1%), meantime it is very powerful combination for IC and useless for ROracle.

maybe?

wow thanks!
What do you mean by claim space for mafia though? It's supposed to be harder to fakeclaim in semi-opens right, and I'm not sure how it was specifically harder to fakeclaim here compared to a normal semi-open.

In C9++ there is chance for powerless townie to appear instead of town PR. Thanks to that mafia has opportunity to claim power role rather then counterclaim someone. Here you are pretty much guaranteed to have one power per category or high value role. Once mafia tries to claim any power, townies are able to instantly call you a liar, because you either called role from their category or your added power value is greater then 6.

Oh yeah, I see how it's really hard to fakeclaim now...
In your setup, the only possible fakeclaims would be bodyguard/1 shot-vig, but it would still be hard to pull off.
Is it still playable?

In post 4, Alisae wrote:Rolecop + RB vs RB honestly at that point is kinda Mountaious or maybe even townsided considering
> Rolecop doesn't become useful until one RB flips.
> Town RB can stop a kill.
So I'm not really seeing how that's scumsided?

10:3 mountainous is massively scumsided. Even 11:2 mountainous is very scumsided. Town needs quite a lot of power to balance a closed 10:3. (In general, all the setups generated by this mechanism would be scumsided if Closed; if it's anywhere near balanced, that would be a consequence of information available via the semi-open mechanic.)

so do you think the three column dice roll makes it too unfun for maf(fakeclaim)? How do you think the overall balance is with Kerset's revision?