Mini Normal 2003: donezo

[the worst]

i feel like roles are being valued based on the average of players that tend to play them versus the role itself.

vig is a great example.

GREAT role in the hands of a good or even a decent player.

can literally kill half the scum in a 2 scum game. can eliminate 20 percent of lynchbait in a 10 player 2 scum game.

QFTAF.

[Espeonage]

i feel like roles are being valued based on the average of players that tend to play them versus the role itself.

vig is a great example.

GREAT role in the hands of a good or even a decent player.

can literally kill half the scum in a 2 scum game. can eliminate 20 percent of lynchbait in a 10 player 2 scum game.

Vig was added because 8/2 is super scumsided based on day play numbers, and it puts the no lynch day in to the hands of a vig instead.

[the worst]

1 shot vig in 10p is fantastic. the addition of a weak role makes for a reeeeally interesting dynamic in 10p though.

[Tchill13]

I'm going to post the original proposed setup bc honestly I thought it was genius.

i mean i love the basic ideas dont get me wrong i was just annoyed that wifom was obviosully given to scum because even with a 2 shot weak neighborizer, 1 shot vig, 2 shot role cop apparently a scum RB was too strong...

am i crazy to call that odd?

setup balance should drastically change between 2 and 3 man scum and i dont feel like that was applied.

I always appreciate the mod though. So even if i disagree thank you for creating and running the game.

[Tchill13]

qftaf?

[Espeonage]

It was town leaning, but not horribly so.

Imagine you let the shot go through.

You go in to day 2 with zero people clear, the weak neighbour down a shot, and it's 5/2

You avoid the lynch like you did. Lovebird can't target or it could be 2/2 day 3. Then you guys have the most unusual claim ever coming out of lovebird in 5 man lylo day 3 with no backing. The game was so close to being super scum sided man.

at best and at worst setup shouldn't determine the outcome. should help or hurt town anywhere from 25 to like 50 percent.

only reason setup was close to scum was if most things played out in scums favor. if most things played out in towns favor its heavy town.

thats rough to swallow the game can swing so heavily based on night actions alone.

i wouldn't complain in a 3 man scum game but threading the needle for balance becomes so much harder in a 2 man scum game.

Yeah, I feel like design space is a bit limited in 13 max players, because 14 is a much better number to work with. I kinda wanted to break the norm.

[the worst]

qftaf?

Quoted for true as fuck
I just made it up on the spot

[Espeonage]

I'm going to post the original proposed setup bc honestly I thought it was genius.

i mean i love the basic ideas dont get me wrong i was just annoyed that wifom was obviosully given to scum because even with a 2 shot weak neighborizer, 1 shot vig, 2 shot role cop apparently a scum RB was too strong...

am i crazy to call that odd?

setup balance should drastically change between 2 and 3 man scum and i dont feel like that was applied.

I always appreciate the mod though. So even if i disagree thank you for creating and running the game.

tbh I thought it was odd too. The original setup was much better for scum.

[Tchill13]

i feel like roles are being valued based on the average of players that tend to play them versus the role itself.

vig is a great example.

GREAT role in the hands of a good or even a decent player.

can literally kill half the scum in a 2 scum game. can eliminate 20 percent of lynchbait in a 10 player 2 scum game.

Vig was added because 8/2 is super scumsided based on day play numbers, and it puts the no lynch day in to the hands of a vig instead.

fmpov...

una, hop, tw. great town.

rest didnt do very well being transparently town. nothing personal obviously.

HALF THE GAME. imagine if 70 percent of town plays well and is a bit more active?

[Espeonage]

The original setup I proposed to Nero was.

Mafia Universal Backup (1 Modification: Can receive a role from any alignment.)
Mafia Goon

Town Weak 2-shot Neighbourizer
Town 2-shot Rolecop
6x VT

[Tchill13]

btw @TW.

youre a welcome addition to ppl ik on site.

[the worst]

DAMNNNN that's dangerous. and swingy. but clever.

Thank you Tch. I've been trying to work really hard on my towngame. My earlier games were very weak, and I think I have a long way to go with consistency.

[Espeonage]

I'll open the PTs if people are cool with it.

[Tchill13]

The original setup I proposed to Nero was.

Mafia Universal Backup (1 Modification: Can receive a role from any alignment.)
Mafia Goon

Town Weak 2-shot Neighbourizer
Town 2-shot Rolecop
6x VT

see... smh.

so many ppl on site dont play unless they get a role or are so bad setup is used to balance terrible play...

thats not gonna fix anything.

[Espeonage]

If you think I make a good original setup, I intend to run themes.

[Tchill13]

DAMNNNN that's dangerous. and swingy. but clever.

Thank you Tch. I've been trying to work really hard on my towngame. My earlier games were very weak, and I think I have a long way to go with consistency.

consistency is overrated as far as play style goes lol. i always try to continually change for the better.

[ArcAngel9]

Well played all.

So Tchill you decided to kill me instead? Ha ha ha!! I love your spirit, you had tried your best to fool me out from TW theory. It was fun reading my catch up.


TW played really well, especially at Lylo. Town deserved this win. Good job all.

[Tchill13]

If you think I make a good original setup, I intend to run themes.

its a 10/10 compared to what i ended up playing.

2TWN is most likely to hit town d1, less likely d2, even less likely d3.

so odds are it plays out exactly as town would wish it would anyway. which is stupid how strong that ends up being.

[Tchill13]

Well played all.

So Tchill you decided to kill me instead? Ha ha ha!! I love your spirit, you had tried your best to fool me out from TW theory. It was fun reading my catch up.


TW played really well, especially at Lylo. Town deserved this win. Good job all.

very annoyed that we orchestrated night kills so well and we ended up being bit in the tail for it due to a late addition to hurt scum even more in setup.

[Tchill13]

i feel like roles are being valued based on the average of players that tend to play them versus the role itself.

vig is a great example.

GREAT role in the hands of a good or even a decent player.

can literally kill half the scum in a 2 scum game. can eliminate 20 percent of lynchbait in a 10 player 2 scum game.

Vig was added because 8/2 is super scumsided based on day play numbers, and it puts the no lynch day in to the hands of a vig instead.

i mean i feel like its a god tier role due to being able to kill half scum in one night.

you can kill the whole scum team by N1. only a possibility but still.

[ArcAngel9]

As far about the setup, I think it is balanced in a way. The only problem with the setup is that there are plenty power roles. When there is more power and if you balance that power by giving more power to other factions. The entire game is based on Night actions and results but not really depended by reads.


Mafia Scum Ninja
Scum Roleblocker

Weak Neighbourhood (2 shot)
1 shot VIG
2 shot role cop

[ArcAngel9]

Well played all.

So Tchill you decided to kill me instead? Ha ha ha!! I love your spirit, you had tried your best to fool me out from TW theory. It was fun reading my catch up.


TW played really well, especially at Lylo. Town deserved this win. Good job all.

very annoyed that we orchestrated night kills so well and we ended up being bit in the tail for it due to a late addition to hurt scum even more in setup.

Release the mafia PT Nero.

[Espeonage]

i feel like roles are being valued based on the average of players that tend to play them versus the role itself.

vig is a great example.

GREAT role in the hands of a good or even a decent player.

can literally kill half the scum in a 2 scum game. can eliminate 20 percent of lynchbait in a 10 player 2 scum game.

Vig was added because 8/2 is super scumsided based on day play numbers, and it puts the no lynch day in to the hands of a vig instead.

i mean i feel like its a god tier role due to being able to kill half scum in one night.

you can kill the whole scum team by N1. only a possibility but still.

Thats when I mean about swingy though. It can be 4/2 on day 2. Which is mylo.

[Tchill13]

so fmpov.

2 god tier roles (2TWN literally percentage wise plays out perfectly) and a pretty damn good one (role cop limits scum prs, finds a role blocker, scum sided role, its over)

compared to role blocker (ok we'll say god tier for the giggles) and a ONLY NEGATIVE WIFOM role for scum.

i disagree with 8v2 being scum sided.

less scum equals less wiggle room. ESPECIALLY WHEN CONSIDERING TOWN PRs.

8v2 being "scum sided" is because town like 70 percent of the time is incompetent.

[Espeonage]

8v2 is really just 7/2 though. Which is considered balanced with more town power than scum power.

Shrug, the game was what it was. You guys played well, but so did a very vocal part of the town.