Large Normal 212: Korts' Geriatrics - Game Over @1831
- Eddie Cane
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mara targets Michael if this reds. if it greens it's probably michael and ginngie. I still think this is out if ginngie dcum range though."Ima need to buy at least Josh a fucking tarot card reading because this dude is scary at picking up on scum before they even post what the fuck type of Ms. Cleo ass psychic ass mothafucka did yall allow to sign up for this site"- Kison
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- Eddie Cane
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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if its town and the game doesnt end mara is town, because otherwise town would just be endgamed"Ima need to buy at least Josh a fucking tarot card reading because this dude is scary at picking up on scum before they even post what the fuck type of Ms. Cleo ass psychic ass mothafucka did yall allow to sign up for this site"- MichelSableheart
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MichelSableheart Mafia Scum
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Agreed. If it turns out I'm wrong, it's hoping Momrangal is town and blocks succesfully tonight.
I'm pretty sure I'm right though. So it's time to start thinking about tomorrow.
I'm not all that worried about myself, as any attempt by scum to nightkill me would mean an instant win for town, but for the other players: after an Old Man scum lynch, if it turns out you die tonight, who's likely scum?There is no 'a' in Michel.- Korts
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Korts Luddite
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Korts Luddite
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- Korts
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Korts Luddite
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Kison has been killed. He was aTown Tracker.
With 4 players and 2 mafia alive, a mafia win is inevitable.
MichelSableheart, Paranoid Gun Owner, andGinngie, Odd-Night Commuter Even-Night Serial Killer, have been endgamed.
Congratulations toEddie CaneandMomrangal/Firebringer, surviving members of the mafia, andLuckyOtter/Lycanfire/Tywin Lannisterfor a post-mortem win!Last edited by Korts on Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.scumchat never die- Korts
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Korts Luddite
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Setup notes.
In post 45, Korts wrote:Mafia Strongman: Tywin Lannister
Mafia Passive Role Disabler: Firebringer
Mafia Goon: Eddie Cane
Odd Night Commuter, Even Night Serial Killer: petroleumjelly
Tracker: Kison
Doctor: roflcopter
Paranoid Gun Owner: CooLDoG
Universal Backup: Pine
Vanilla Townie:
Kmd4390
hitogoroshi
Old Man
MagnaofIllusion
insanity018
chamber
Axelrodscumchat never die- Korts
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- Eddie Cane
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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- Pine
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Pine In Your Head
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- Ginngie
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Ginngie Jack of All Trades
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- Pine
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Pine In Your Head
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Hmmm yeah, given PGO and SK, it’s plausible that this could have gone differently. Mafia win was not inevitable. If they forced a no-lynch, then tried to kill the PGO while Ginny killed the other, the Mafia could easily have been eliminated with a SK win in 1:1, or outright if you rule that PGO dies when shot at.
Those are long odds, though. There would need to be a very precise order of events."Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"
Act 3, Scene 1 ofJulius Caesar, by W. Shakespeare- Ginngie
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fuck it whatever
Also Old Man, whoever the fuck you are
stop being so shit at the game
Your method for "who's scum" never worked and this was my town meta because not groupscum here
You lied day 1 to save your skin
You lied again day 2 to get lycan lynched
I can't fucking believe you wouldn't just go "lmao I made that up, his role is fake"
All that shit ended up getting you lynched.
Learn from those mistakes and be better fuck.
Also Pine, i'm glad I can see your town sometimes :3Shoutout to PJ and Nahdia for making my amazing new avi :)
Following the previous dozen pages that cropped up in the last 10 hours I would like to congratulate Ginngie for being drunk with distinction. - Vi- Ginngie
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Honestly it should have been a tie between mafia/SK or mafia/town
no lynch
They shoot PGO, one of them dies, I shoot the same one or the other one
then it's PGO, 1 mafia, me and it's a kingmaker game
or it's PGO and me left which would be a tie
They shoot me and I shoot one of the other mafia
it's now PGO and 1 mafia
which would be a tie because that mafia would kill themselves
This applies because the win condition doesn't fucking state majority, but that the other factions have to be dead.Shoutout to PJ and Nahdia for making my amazing new avi :)
Following the previous dozen pages that cropped up in the last 10 hours I would like to congratulate Ginngie for being drunk with distinction. - Vi- Ginngie
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I planned out the entire game and it all worked up to this pointIn post 1837, Pine wrote:Those are long odds, though. There would need to be a very precise order of events.Shoutout to PJ and Nahdia for making my amazing new avi :)
Following the previous dozen pages that cropped up in the last 10 hours I would like to congratulate Ginngie for being drunk with distinction. - Vi- Pine
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Hey now hey now. Let’s be kinder. It could be argued that OM’s fakeclaims provided the framework for scum counter-fakeclaims and division which led to mislynches, but only argued. It could easily have gone the other way. Let us instead say that they adroitly exploited opportunities presented to them, and a lesser sucmteam may not have been able to. I’m inclined to be a good sport here and credit Mafia with a well-deserved win. Eddie, Mom, and FB maintained solid Towngames, and the Tywin slot sold their life for a high price. Good on them.
As for me being Town, this wasn’t a stellar performance. I TRed Tywin and PJ, and ineffectively prosecuted my righteous SR on Firebringer."Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"
Act 3, Scene 1 ofJulius Caesar, by W. Shakespeare- Eddie Cane
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maras role let's us kill pgo without dying, so the best case scenario scenario for you is a draw if the pgo king makes for you."Ima need to buy at least Josh a fucking tarot card reading because this dude is scary at picking up on scum before they even post what the fuck type of Ms. Cleo ass psychic ass mothafucka did yall allow to sign up for this site"- Ginngie
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- OnTheMark
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There are definite issues with the set-up here.
1.)First, the presence of the Paranoid Gun Owner clearly warped the entire set-up of the game. I am not going to try and do research again, but I believe the last instance of a Paranoid Gun Owner in a Normal Game was approximately seven years ago, when the ruleset for Normals were very different. What didn't change, though, is the fact that Normal Games are supposed to represent what players should normally expect to see in a "normal," no frills game. A PGO I think defies those expectations. The role itself does not get to make any choices during the night, but yet the role can drastically swing the game in one direction or another depending on players act, through no fault of their own.
2.)Second, the presence of the Paranoid Gun Owner clearly resulted in the creation of the Mafia "Passive Disabler" Role. This is a role that absolutely should not exist in a Normal Game -- period. The interactions it could have are ridiculous. As the most basic example, this role could apparently prevent Masons from night-talking (since that is a passive power), but how that could possibly be 'timed' is anybody's guess. It's also unclear whether this role would block the "Commuting" Serial Killer. As written, the SK actually hasno choicewhether they want to commute or not (which is not how a Commuter role is even supposed to work). An ability with no choice at night is a passive ability; so apparently the Mafia could similarly roleblock the passive Commuter and simultaneously kill them that night. This has all sorts of issues, and again emphasizes how much this role does not belong in a Normal game.
The Role Disabler was put in the set-up specifically to counteract the PGO. This very fact in turn makes the PGO even more anti-town than it was at the offset, as the Mafia can ignore it completely so long as the Role Disabler remains alive.
3.)Which brings us directly to the third point. The rules explicitly state:
And yet, surely in order to help the Mafia against an endgame where they are stuck with the PGO, the Role Disabler contradicts this:
This is a lie to the players of the game, which is explicitly disallowed in Normal games. I certainly hope this was an oversight.In post 1832, Korts wrote:You are a Passive Role Disabler. Every night, you can select a player to roleblock, and any passive abilities they have will be disabled. You cannot perform both the roleblock and the group kill, unless you are the last player alive in your faction.
4.)The Mafia Win Condition indeed says that to win, the death of all other factions must at a minimum be "inevitable." Here, it was not "inevitable" that the Mafia would win. Had the Win Condition been "controlling half of the Town" (or something to that effect), this would not have been an issue, though it would further limit the chances for the SK to get a win by having "everybody" dead.
5.)This set-up appears to be quite anti-Town on the whole. The Town essentially has to rely on the Tracker and Doctor (with the backup role) to carry them to victory; and the presence of a Serial Killer also means the Town pretty much has to hope for some cross-killing, which is something they can do very little about.
While the Trackerwasstronger than usual in this game (because the Mafia had incentive, for example, to kill an "role disable" the same role at nights to assure a kill), it is still a very narrow role that does not even give direct guilty results (as shown here, when roflcopter was tracked but turned out to be Town).
The Strongman role counters the Doctor, and the Role Disabler role counters the PGO. This is too many "counters" to a Town with such limited ammunition. I think the set-up would have been much better if the PGO an the Role Disabler were both simply not in the game, an the Town instead had another minor power role.
~
I could go on about the actual game, but I am honestly more concerned the takeaways from the set-up (having been a Normal Game Reviewer in a past life). The two things I will say:
6.)Lying as Town is bad. The times where it is arguably acceptable are few an far between, and were certainly not present here.
7.)This game was Toxic with a capital "T." I would ask that those players who intentionally made the game unenjoyable for others to take a moment for some introspection. It was not an accident so many players replaced out or flaked."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."- Ginngie
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Also no actual idea how that would work with commuterIn post 1846, petroleumjelly wrote:2.) Second, the presence of the Paranoid Gun Owner clearly resulted in the creation of the Mafia "Passive Disabler" Role. This is a role that absolutely should not exist in a Normal Game -- period. The interactions it could have are ridiculous. As the most basic example, this role could apparently prevent Masons from night-talking (since that is a passive power), but how that could possibly be 'timed' is anybody's guess. It's also unclear whether this role would block the "Commuting" Serial Killer. As written, the SK actually has no choice whether they want to commute or not (which is not how a Commuter role is even supposed to work). An ability with no choice at night is a passive ability; so apparently the Mafia could similarly roleblock the passive Commuter and simultaneously kill them that night. This has all sorts of issues, and again emphasizes how much this role does not belong in a Normal game.
because commuter is "taken out of the game"
and Mom would have failed to target me
but disables my abilityShoutout to PJ and Nahdia for making my amazing new avi :)
Following the previous dozen pages that cropped up in the last 10 hours I would like to congratulate Ginngie for being drunk with distinction. - Vi- schadd_
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schadd_ he/itpandora's pukebox
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yesIn post 1844, Ginngie wrote:Oh Eddie is phenomenal at mafia as always
its on themeIn post 1846, petroleumjelly wrote:I believe the last instance of a Paranoid Gun Owner in a Normal Game was approximately seven years ago
hilariously enough i had looked that up as well watching this game and i had also made a poll wherein people reported to be majority against pgo. and i was gonna be like "uh pgo isn't normal right now actually, nor has it been used like ever" but i was worried about affecting this game
people can scumhunt during day phasesIn post 1846, petroleumjelly wrote:The Town essentially has to rely on the Tracker and Doctor (with the backup role) to carry them to victory- schadd_
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schadd_ he/itpandora's pukebox
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here's some setup spec for you
ye olde mini archive
ctrl f "korts", "town roleblocker", "mafia roleblocker" and then look at where the little yellow spots on the scroll bar are for each of those - schadd_
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