Worse Idea Mafia -- Game Over

[Primate]

For each day kill you've made, you must wait an additional 24 hours from the start of each day to day kill in the future. Attempting to day kill before this time period ends will have no effect. The delay begins and the next day starts when I post, not when the previous day's kill has been made. Attempts to kill before I post the previous kill's result will be ignored.

The mafia, and the mafia only, can pre-submit a day-kill, before their delay has ended. The day kill will take effect the microsecond their delay is over, allowing them to kill before any townie with the same delay. The format for this is: Mafia Kill: X. It will be obvious that their kill is a mafia kill; this method of killing should only be advantageous for the mafia when they are about to win or on a suicide mission.

The Cast
ooba*
Primate*
Mike O' Malley*
Andycyca*
creampuffeater*
Beep! Beep!
Twomz*

That was my theory though. Just looking at the ruleset now, I can't see whether there's anything between 0 and 1, and with delays that small it honestly doesn't make a difference whether you kill next or not. I'll have a look at it when I'm more sober, but it seems that it's a good thing for you to not kill next if you're town and it doesn't make a difference if you're scum.

Was that what you were getting at or did you just not know what I was talking about?

[Beep! Beep!]

That was my theory though. Just looking at the ruleset now, I can't see whether there's anything between 0 and 1, and with delays that small it honestly doesn't make a difference whether you kill next or not. I'll have a look at it when I'm more sober, but it seems that it's a good thing for you to not kill next if you're town and it doesn't make a difference if you're scum.

Was that what you were getting at or did you just not know what I was talking about?

That was my understanding, but with everybody clamoring for quick lynches, and saying that everyone had to have a kill under their belt for some reason, I was seriously wondering what was wrong with me, for not "getting" that.

Would the scum willingly mislead townies into quick lynching each other? Unfortunately, the kills went so quickly, that it would be quite difficult to draw conclusions even if accepting this as a valid hypothesis.

What a mess.

[creampuffeater]

im clearly scum for killing somebody who I thought was town, and dumb enough to point it out. I killed Sim because he needed to die (He might not know the reason, but I will think of one (or maybe just TMS)) As for the rest of you, pod is obv town.

[Beep! Beep!]

im clearly scum for killing somebody who I thought was town, and dumb enough to point it out. I killed Sim because he needed to die (He might not know the reason, but I will think of one (or maybe just TMS)) As for the rest of you, pod is obv town.

Is that WIFOM?

Who is pod, BTW?

[Twomz]

While it's true that if everyone has the same delay (not likely to be that way for long) it gives the scum an advantage (that they have to reveal themselves as scum to use) they have a larger advantage if they have no delay or a much smaller delay than the town. That's why I said I would be suspicious of people that tried to not kill (the mafia kill point is a good point though).

And are we really down to just 7?

[Andycyca]

In the questions it says

Q1:Aren't there massive problems with the Mafia pre-kill? How would we know if they are mafia?
A1:They have to mafia kill in thread -- so

it will be painfully obvious

that they are mafia.

This game was meant for lots of killing obviously, and I killed Korlash because he swore he'd kill me. He would too. I just meant we need to not kill anymore. I'm thinking mafia wouldn't use a kill early, and if they can only kill by saying "Mafia Kill: X" than I can't be mafia.

This screams WIFOM

[creampuffeater]

im clearly scum for killing somebody who I thought was town, and dumb enough to point it out. I killed Sim because he needed to die (He might not know the reason, but I will think of one (or maybe just TMS)) As for the rest of you, pod is obv town.

Is that WIFOM?

Who is pod, BTW?

pod = primate. Also, theres Good wifom and Bad wifom. Good wifom is something that is not painfully obvious, and could actually be true, like claiming the only kill after a night, then theres Bad wifom when your claim wifom just for the sake of keeping semi suspicion on a player when its clear they are joking, like what I did. I STILL HAVENT FORGOTTEN TMS IF YOUR READING THIS SIM. YOUR RUINED MAF2 BY BARNING ME AND YOU HAVE PAID.

[Beep! Beep!]

While it's true that if everyone has the same delay (not likely to be that way for long) it gives the scum an advantage (that they have to reveal themselves as scum to use) they have a larger advantage if they have no delay or a much smaller delay than the town. That's why I said I would be suspicious of people that tried to not kill (the mafia kill point is a good point though).

And are we really down to just 7?

OK - I'm not sure if I understand this correctly. Let me recap what I do understand.

(1) Mafia kills are indistinguishable from town kills.
(2) At end game, though, they have an advantage in that their kill will have precedence over a town kill, should they be simultaneous.
(3) The special mafia kill would only work if the town is out of ammo, and the mafiosi is the next player to be released from the 24 hour reload delay. Because if the town has ammo, we can always shoot down the idiot who does that Mafia kill.

Did I get that right?

Let's make sure we're all on the same page and we understand the mechanics correctly.

[Beep! Beep!]

Assuming that I am correct about the above, there are some calculations we should make.

First off, right now, I believe that the best town strategy is to stall the game in order for all the players that have no more ammo, to reload. That way, we remove all incentive for the mafia to take advantage of the mafia kill business. If we're loaded, it's not going to help them. Unless I misunderstood the rules. Because we'll shoot them down. And since they're unlikely to shoot down their buddy, we'd have a better guess of who their buddy is. If they try it, I believe they're screwed. But we need a fully loaded town, and we need to carefully plan.

For the calculations, I am going to go back and reread the thread, and take note of the time that the current living people are going to reload. I believe it's important we keep track of that information.

Please hold, your call is important to us.

[Beep! Beep!]

Reload times:

Beep! Beep! - LOADED
Mike O'Malley: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:45 pm - RELOADED
CPE: Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:37 am - RELOADED
Primate: Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:49 am - RELOADED
ooba: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:12 am - RELOADED
Twomz: Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:11 pm
Andycyca: Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:53 pm

By 3:53 this afternoon, each and everyone of us will be able to shoot down any other player.

So again, correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the hypothesis that the scum would hold on to their kill (we have an infinite number of kills, remember) for end game can be safely shot down, pun intended. All but two players are now loaded.

I have a suggestion.
Press "1" to hear suggestion.
Press "2" to press the "2" key.
Press "3" to leave a fingerprint on your telephone.

[Andycyca]

(1) Mafia kills are indistinguishable from town kills.

Yes, and fortunately their preemptive kills are "Painfully obvious"

(2) At end game, though, they have an advantage in that their kill will have precedence over a town kill, should they be simultaneous.

According to Guardian's example, yes. There are still 2 mafia out there, so we shouldn't get down to 4 players without vigging 1 scum (or 2)

(3) The special mafia kill would only work if the town is out of ammo, and the mafiosi is the next player to be released from the 24 hour reload delay. Because if the town has ammo, we can always shoot down the idiot who does that Mafia kill.

Right

So again, correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the hypothesis that the scum would hold on to their kill (we have an infinite number of kills, remember) for end game can be safely shot down, pun intended. All but two players are now loaded.

Are you suggesting that two out of the {Beep! Beep!;Mike O'Malley, CPE, Primate;ooba} are scum?

[Beep! Beep!]

Are you suggesting that two out of the {Beep! Beep!;Mike O'Malley, CPE, Primate;ooba} are scum?

Why leave out Twomz and yourself? I don't understand.

[Beep! Beep!]

Here are my suggestions. Now that we're pretty much all loaded, and soon to be all reloaded anyway.

(1) If a player kills another player without player majority backing, he himself should be shot immediately. No forgiveness, no questions asked.

(2) We should cooperate and vote for the two scummiest players. The second-scummiest player will shoot the top-scummiest player. That way, we'll lose one scummy player, and disarm another, slightly less scummy player for 24 hours.

(3) From now on, we should VOTE and not shoot. That should put an end to the wanton randomness.

Does anyone have suggestions to improve this plan?

[ooba]

Sounds good ...

[Twomz]

Wow, I totally got the mechanics wrong, I thought the 24 hour delay was reset for everyone who has shot every time a new day starts... so it's just after your kill? That makes my suspicions of people keeping their kills pretty worthless and screws up my entire concept of the game .

[Guardian]

NEW RULE:

I thought of something before you guys did, thankfully...

A town player who attempts to use

Mafia Kill: X

will shoot themselves instantly. Only Mafia can use the ability, no townies can pretend to use it to eliminate themselves.

I'm sure you can see the rationale behind this rule...

[Andycyca]

Are you suggesting that two out of the {Beep! Beep!;Mike O'Malley, CPE, Primate;ooba} are scum?

Why leave out Twomz and yourself? I don't understand.

You mentioned that scum might be saving their shots for the endgame. When I wrote my post, Twomz and I were the only ones without any ammo. I wanted to know whether you were using that theory to point out Twomz and me as scum.

Also, the mod broke the claim before we did... we aren't a strategic Town

[Primate]

I reckon scums are likely less willing to use their kills, but its more of a tell, not an actual tactic.

[Beep! Beep!]

I have a question for CPE:

Also, theres Good wifom and Bad wifom. Good wifom is something that is not painfully obvious, and could actually be true, like claiming the only kill after a night, then theres Bad wifom when your claim wifom just for the sake of keeping semi suspicion on a player when its clear they are joking, like what I did. I STILL HAVENT FORGOTTEN TMS IF YOUR READING THIS SIM. YOUR RUINED MAF2 BY BARNING ME AND YOU HAVE PAID.

CPE, we have little information. But isn't it possible, from other players point of view, to interpret your action differently? For instance, one could easily believe that you purposely planted this "bad WIFOM" sentence.

Maybe I'm not phrasing this well.

What possible reason can there be to shoot down a player, along with a statement indicating that you believe this player to be a townie?

The only reason that comes to my mind, is that you might have thought that we would interpret this as so blatantly absurd, that no scum would have said such a thing. Maybe you thought of this in the heat of the moment, and your idea wasn't fully cooked.

CPE - is there another explanation?

Also - for the players that aren't in the loop, can you explain this sentence? "I STILL HAVENT FORGOTTEN TMS IF YOUR READING THIS SIM. YOUR RUINED MAF2 BY BARNING ME AND YOU HAVE PAID."

[Primate]

I have a question for CPE:

Also, theres Good wifom and Bad wifom. Good wifom is something that is not painfully obvious, and could actually be true, like claiming the only kill after a night, then theres Bad wifom when your claim wifom just for the sake of keeping semi suspicion on a player when its clear they are joking, like what I did. I STILL HAVENT FORGOTTEN TMS IF YOUR READING THIS SIM. YOUR RUINED MAF2 BY BARNING ME AND YOU HAVE PAID.

CPE, we have little information. But isn't it possible, from other players point of view, to interpret your action differently? For instance, one could easily believe that you purposely planted this "bad WIFOM" sentence.

Maybe I'm not phrasing this well.

What possible reason can there be to shoot down a player, along with a statement indicating that you believe this player to be a townie?

The only reason that comes to my mind, is that you might have thought that we would interpret this as so blatantly absurd, that no scum would have said such a thing. Maybe you thought of this in the heat of the moment, and your idea wasn't fully cooked.

CPE - is there another explanation?

Also - for the players that aren't in the loop, can you explain this sentence? "I STILL HAVENT FORGOTTEN TMS IF YOUR READING THIS SIM. YOUR RUINED MAF2 BY BARNING ME AND YOU HAVE PAID."

Me, Cpe and Sim play on another forum called Magic Salvation. There was a Too much scum game on that forum and the way I remember it (I wasn't actually in the game), Sim followed CPE a lot which eventually led to Sims lynch followed by CPE's lynch, robbing mafia 2 of 2 of it's members very early in the game.

Games here http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=59095 if you want to read it for some reason.

Cpe can explain himself for the other parts, though I have my thoughts.

[Twomz]

Damn, all we had to do was get everyone to use the mafia kill? Oh well, that's too cheap anyway .

I played on MTGS a LONG time ago... no real reason to point that out I don't guess >.>

[Beep! Beep!]

Cpe can explain himself for the other parts, though I have my thoughts.

Specifically, I want to know why he felt the need to exert revenge in

this game

, and why he chose to do it at the time he did.

Is this revenge the kind of excuse you'd use regardless of your alignment, or would you be more likely to use it as town, or as scum?

[creampuffeater]

oh, i viewed the thread, i saw sim alive, i shot him. thats my mental process. As for your questions, I posted that little "i think sim is town thing" just because that was my read on him, especially on the waiting for pod issue. He was town, i was correct. As for revenge, yes its exactly why, timing? well i have a daykill.... morelikely town or scum, neither i would do it as both. As for planting the sentence, if you think im scum then shoot me... I have no problem with it, my primary goal was acomplished i killed sim, i am happy, i hate capital letters

[Beep! Beep!]

oh, i viewed the thread, i saw sim alive, i shot him. thats my mental process. As for your questions, I posted that little "i think sim is town thing" just because that was my read on him, especially on the waiting for pod issue. He was town, i was correct.

Why did you think that he was town? What were the clues?

[creampuffeater]

oh, i viewed the thread, i saw sim alive, i shot him. thats my mental process. As for your questions, I posted that little "i think sim is town thing" just because that was my read on him,

especially on the waiting for pod issue.

He was town, i was correct. As for revenge, yes its exactly why, timing? well i have a daykill.... morelikely town or scum, neither i would do it as both. As for planting the sentence, if you think im scum then shoot me... I have no problem with it, my primary goal was acomplished i killed sim, i am happy, i hate capital letters

thats my answer, also sim just acts different as scum, jumpier and stuff like that