Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[Gustavo]

Sup everyone. Bare with me. I hope I can catch up soon. My gut would be to just vote nauci and create some fireworks but I’m learning people don’t like fireworks so I’ll try a different approach.

[Gustavo]

Nauci

Why did you vote nauci immediately after math did with absolutely no reason for it and hardly any mention of him prior?

[Gustavo]

VOTE: Nauci

Though I would prefer a Bernie wagon

If you preferred a Bernie wagon, why didn’t you vote Bernie? You had no reason to vote nauci here.

[Gustavo]

I dunno about those votes on Nauci. Her recent posts aren't so bad.

But probably should lynch the worst today.

This would have been the perfect time to change your vote. Why didn’t you?

[Gustavo]

uh pardon me since when do you know me well enough that you can tell what's fake from me? o.0

Even this way of defending himself is bullshit. I call something fake, and his response is, "you don't know me well enough to know it's fake." He's not even denying that it's fake... instead he just wants to discredit me...

I don’t even know how you reached that conclusion...

Sorry was examing the biggest wagon but that last series of posts has me looking at sho’s Iso.

Somebody who isn’t sho, please tell me why he isn’t l-1 right now?

[Gustavo]

really? i iwish i had this skill

The trick is to not overthink it. Is he doing pro-town things? He's town. Is he doing pro-scum things? He's scum.

Incorrect. That’s how I play and everyone yells at me saying I’m a surface level player. Town doesn’t always pro-town things. Town sometimes does pro-scum things. Scum doesn’t always do pro-scum things.

[Gustavo]

Nauci

Why did you vote nauci immediately after math did with absolutely no reason for it and hardly any mention of him prior?

As you know from Tropical, I don't always state my reasons for voting. So why ask this question?

Because I want your reason.

[Gustavo]

Nauci

Why did you vote nauci immediately after math did with absolutely no reason for it and hardly any mention of him prior?

As you know from Tropical, I don't always state my reasons for voting. So why ask this question?

Because I want your reason.

No shit. What do you think my answer will tell you about my alignment if you know I do this as town?

I don’t remember that other game. I’m trying to figure out why poeple are voting the largest wagon (or was the largest when I started looking at VCs). I’m also trying to see who is and isn’t a team player. You should be more cooperative if you are town, after all you are the one who thinks this game is as easy as town doing protown things. By that rule you aren’t doing protown things.

[Gustavo]

I dunno about those votes on Nauci. Her recent posts aren't so bad.

But probably should lynch the worst today.

This would have been the perfect time to change your vote. Why didn’t you?

I wasn't done sorting Nauci.

Bad answer. You had doubt and you had somebody you liked better. Protown behavior is to change your vote.

[Gustavo]

uh pardon me since when do you know me well enough that you can tell what's fake from me? o.0

Even this way of defending himself is bullshit. I call something fake, and his response is, "you don't know me well enough to know it's fake." He's not even denying that it's fake... instead he just wants to discredit me...

I don’t even know how you reached that conclusion...

What's your confusion?

It’s like a huge misrep on your part. The worst’s question was valid. He doesn’t have to deny that it was fake. You have the burden of proof to prove it was fake. Innocent until proven guilty

[Gustavo]

VOTE: shoshin

He’s not a team player. I ask him a few questions and he flails and votes me. By his own definition of what scum is, he’s guilty of being scum.

I’ll see y’all day 2.

[Gustavo]

does this not strike you as a situation scum!Shoshin would try to avoid being in though?

That’s wifom my friend. I don’t have time to play the wifom game. His iso reeks, his vote on nauci was opportunistic and he refused to explain why, he had doubt yet he stayed on.

To me that’s scum. I’ll log off and do the rest of my reading and take notes on my own time but for now I have no interest in voting nauci. Have no interest in voting you. I’ll develop more reads later.

[Gustavo]

I’m just here to deny I misrepped shoshin. I find it kind of hypocritical since he misrepped the worst.

I’d also like to say my scum game is nothing like my play so far this game and in both of those games he linked, sho did provide some sort of explanation for his vote or reads.

[Gustavo]

i kinda feel like you've decided that there must be scum on the nauci wagon and that shoshin is it. honestly the nauci wagon isn't really a thing and is just kinda residual as people are trying to figure out what to do with tw and the many replacements.

No. I started with the wagon that was largest and wanted to see if people had reasons for their vote. You should see I questioned 2 people because I didn’t understand their placement on the wagon. It’s good to question questionable votes imo and that’s what I was doing.

[Gustavo]

are you like trying to dismantle the nauci wagon?

No. I was just looking for a starting point because I’m not actually going to read every post that’s been made so far. Day 1 is the most useless day anyway so I figured I’d cut right to the chase.

[Gustavo]

VOTE: Nauci

Can you explain why you went from null to scum on nauci? All I see is gut but can you put it into words for me?

[Gustavo]

I’m kind of disappointed there haven’t been any other real wagons this game. Just based on the lack of reasons for nauci, she’s probably town. By poe there is one scum in that pool of 4 and I’m town reading 2 of them.

[Gustavo]

Btw if you look at shoshin’s town game. His first serious vote on invisibility includes reasons with his vote - viewtopic.php?p=10200938#p10200938

His 2nd serious vote was on mumble and it included reasons - viewtopic.php?p=10212098#p10212098

His 3rd serious vote was on me and it included reasons - viewtopic.php?p=10220015#p10220015

His 4th vote lacked reason but his 5th had some.

Please somebody verify what I’ve just posted and see if what sho says below is truthful.

As you know from Tropical, I don't always state my reasons for voting. So why ask this question?

[Gustavo]

Shoshin’s scum game he votes Byron without a reason and only gives one after brawl votes him. He only places one other serious vote and he gives no reason for it.

He was quickly lynched. Unfortunately I missed most of that day phase so I don’t remember what he did to get caught.

[Gustavo]

i'm reasonably confident that she's town, and is prob close to one of my strongest townreads.

I’ll ask you to reconsider given the information I’ve provided so far. I don’t think you in good faith can maintain that given I’ve proven she has been dishonest. She used her dishonesty to paint me in a negative light.

I feel I’ve provided multiple reasons why she is a good lynch today. My play may be odd to you but if you are actually town you have to admit that it’s proven effective especially if she flips scum.

[Gustavo]

The point is Shoshin was mislynched for being bad at town

When you come back I’d like to explain this blatant misrep. Sho was mislynched strictly because mumble’s fuck up.

I was scum that game. The moment the fruit vendor flipped, sho was a lock to be lynched and mumble was the direct cause.

[Gustavo]

You to explain*

[Gustavo]

The first couple of posts were things I found strange. Yes. The thing about reading not mafia was my mistake. I thought she was suggesting that’s how you scum hunt. But speaking of that, that’s not how you read not mafia. I’ve don’t think I’ve ever seen not mafia do pro town things as town. I often find myself wondering why not mafia even joins games because of how little they contribute. But anyway.

As I said those are things I found suspicious, the fact she outright refused to answer a simple question. She lied saying she did that in the other game we played (I’ve just proven she lied) and I should somehow know better and then I think she accused me of misrepping her?

All that combined makes me very suspicious of her. Mainly the lying about our history, overreaction to simple questions, flailing, and false accusations of misrepping.

If she’s scum great. If she’s town I’m fine with it.

[Gustavo]

Also, Gustavo, what do you think/what have you done with this?

Didn’t even see that. I’ll look into it at some point but I’m not in any hurry.

[Gustavo]

Regardless, I'm confident Shoshin is town based on her pro-town play

Great. You think she’s played pro town. But scum can do that also. But let me hear you spin her lying about the game we played as protown. Why would town intentionally deceive people like that.

Note she didn’t even defend herself. She just unvoted.

I don’t see that as pro town. You do. Let’s hear you explain how it is.

I want the same from skittle also.

[Gustavo]

DEAR WHOEVER REPLACES ME: ONE MISSION; LOOK INTO WHO DIDN’T RESPOND TO MY QUESTIONS, PLEASE!

Sorry predecessor. I’m having trouble deciphering your posts. I see where you ask questions and then seem to answer them yourself which basically makes them useless. I’m not sure going backwards at this point will be useful. I also didn’t see anything super important in them. I’ll try again when I get to a computer.

[Gustavo]

If you actually read Tropical, you'll see that I voted without any reasons (twice on Rampage on D1 and then Invis on D2) and people even gave me shit about it. But seems like I gave more reasoning in that game I remembered when voting Mumble/Havo, so whatever.

Gustavo's playing absurdly aggressive - not sure what to make of it because his play as town didn't look anything like this but neither did his play as scum.

I didn’t really count your rvs vote cause well rvs.
The 2nd vote on rampage looked like you were confusing games.
The vote on invisibility it looked like that was you correcting yourself from the mixing of games.

But regardless. I don’t see where you outright refused to explain yourself when you asked like you did here.

I’m willing to straight up policy lynch you for that alone because no town should refuse to explain themselves when asked, but thankfully you’ve done other things that are suspicious so I’m comfortable tunneling you.

[Gustavo]

If she’s scum great. If she’s town I’m fine with it.

This is such a bad way to think about the game. But I suppose there's actually players who think this way.

It isn’t when there are so many town players who intentionally play bad. Like if you are town there was zero reason to refuse to explain your vote in the manner you did. Town has to work together and if you are town you are refusing to do that.

[Gustavo]

Not seeing your point, honestly

Well then I guess I’ll sit in the corner and pout in my own tears. I’m not voting anyone else at this point

[Gustavo]

But regardless. I don’t see where you outright refused to explain yourself when you asked like you did here.

I didn't refuse to explain why I voted Nauci.

You still haven’t given one despite me asking so yeah you have.

[Gustavo]

Nauci

Why did you vote nauci immediately after math did with absolutely no reason for it and hardly any mention of him prior?

As you know from Tropical, I don't always state my reasons for voting. So why ask this question?

Because I want your reason.

Here was me saying I want your reason.

You haven’t provided one still.

[Gustavo]

I’m not going to argue this game. I’m done with you. You aren’t willing to cooperate clearly. It’s going to just piss me off and I need to stay chill because the mod I’m sure didn’t even want me to play.

[Gustavo]

Alright, if town has to work together, why aren't you working with me?

You showed an unwillingness to work with me. After reading your posts I no longer believe you are town. I won’t work with scum.

Have a good day

[Gustavo]

Everything you've done from the moment you've entered this game has been needlessly aggressive towards me,

Asking you why you didn’t explain your vote wasn’t aggressive. Notice I asked everyone on that wagon who didn’t have a clear wagon the same question. The others haven’t answered but you were the one who responded with the unnecessary aggression. Not me.

I was trying to sort you. You refusing to answer my question was your attempt to allow yourself be sorted which I don’t attribute to town behavior.

[Gustavo]

It's curious that the first thing Gustavo does when entering the thread is ignore Stun's thoughts, look at the biggest wagon, decide the wagon is on town, and thus start questioning the votes on that player. I'm trying to picture this thought process - "Ignore thoughts of someone I know is town, assume biggest wagon in the game is on town, and thus question votes on biggest wagon" - as a town one. Struggling to see it. But input from others would be appreciated because I'm biased here.

I didn’t assume it was town though. The best thing to do when replacing into a game with many pages is to look at the largest current wagon. That’s going to give you the most relevant information.

[Gustavo]

stungun never came across as informed, and came across pretty transparent

This describes me btw

[Gustavo]

stungun never came across as informed, and came across pretty transparent

This describes me btw

disagree. you "have no interest in voting nauci." (975)

This shows that you aren't just looking at the biggest wagon for info, you also have some sort of feeling about Nauci that

does

come across as informed

transparent I guess though

I developed a read based on the lack of reasons for a nauci wagon. That’s not being informed. That’s using information available to me to figure out if the wagon was a good one or not. There was very little reasoning from anyone on the wagon which to means it’s probably not on scum.

If nauci were scum I’d expect more of a case for her. I’d expect more people pushing hard for her. You’re making an incorrect assumption that I’m informed because of how quickly I was able to pick the wagon apart. That’s me just being efficient.

[Gustavo]

Also why are you so explicitly uninterested in voting the worst?

Because my top scum read deliberately misrepresented him. I don’t see that as a s/s interaction. I see that as a s/t one.

[Gustavo]

Gustavo since replacing in...

This game has too many posts with so few wagons. Cutting through the fluff seemed to be a good strategy and from my POV it’s working out pretty good even if I’ve ruffled some feathers.

[Gustavo]

A lot of shoshin's reason-less votes have been toward the end of creating wagons imo
That's what's pro-town about her play and her voting

Idk what this means. End of creating wagons?

[Gustavo]

Scums goal is to also make wagons. That’s not ai for me. I’m not really interested in talking about sho anymore. If you want to discuss other people lmk.

[Gustavo]

I mean I would love your thoughts on Keyser Soze, skitter30, mathdino, gamma emerald

When I get some time I’ll iso them.

[Gustavo]

I’m not going to argue this game. I’m done with you. You aren’t willing to cooperate clearly. It’s going to just piss me off and I need to stay chill because the mod I’m sure didn’t even want me to play.

For someone not willing to cooperate with others, she sure asking others for input quite a bit

Cooperation is the process of working with others. She didn’t want to work with me and her asking people questions isn’t an example of that either. I can sit here and ask a billion questions but that doesn’t mean I’m cooperating.

Asking question is part of the game. It’s giving the appearance of scum hunting whether it be genuine or feigned.

[Gustavo]

As far as Gustavo goes, I'm kinda confused. I absolutely see him believing in what he's saying but I don't think that should exclude him from scum. As far as my own play goes, I push logic and cases that I personally believe myself to be pushing if I was town, and because of that, there's a level of authenticity to pushes. I don't think it unreasonable to see others do it.

That in mind, pushing shoshin here is very high risk high reward because it would be clear, if he is scum here, that Shoshin is the town leader here and shutting her down would eliminate town cohesion here in this game, which should be one of scums goals

Nobody should be putting shoshin as the town leader. Anyone who thinks she is will not be highly regarded by me.

[Gustavo]

blows my mind that keyser and bernie both have more posts than me (I'm #5 in posts) and I have so little hold on their reads.

off the top of my head, Bernie thinks tw is scum
Keyser thought skitter was scum but isn't sure of that anymore. He also wasn't sure about invisibility

???

gonna go re-read Bernie

So maybe engage with them like you have been with me. The best way to learn something is to ask questions. If they don’t answer you, then you have a justified reason to scum read them.

[Gustavo]

You said my predecessor was transparent. That’s the best thing town players can do. It’s super hard for scum to maintain fake transparency throughout an entire game. Scum have to be able to pivot when an opportunity arises and they can’t do that easily while being transparent.

[Gustavo]

Honestly it feels like half the playerlist is, which is annoying.

So stop waiting. Lurking as a strategy is a thing. Ask shoshin.

[Gustavo]

I haven't voted once

And that is a huge red flag.

With regards to gamma one could argue he’s avoiding this game. Last post here on Tuesday. Posted on site yesterday. Logged on today.

[Gustavo]

are you talking to me?

It was directed at anyone who’s waiting.

It’s perfectly fine lynching a lurker day 1. I know people on this site find it taboo but an old site I played they always lynched a lurker day 1 and town win percentage was high.

[Gustavo]

That is true. First out, first in

[Gustavo]

Sup everyone. Bare with me. I hope I can catch up soon. My gut would be to just vote nauci and create some fireworks but I’m learning people don’t like fireworks so I’ll try a different approach.

idk I've never played with you so I wouldn't know

Im confused. Your response doesn’t make sense to that post.

[Gustavo]

Skitter, you can sheep me too, you know. I know you don't have any experience with me but my reads are usually pretty good.

Why the appeal?

I tbink I missed this post. You should listen to him. His reads were spot on in tropical...

[Gustavo]

I’m just here to deny I misrepped shoshin. I find it kind of hypocritical since he misrepped the worst.

I’d also like to say my scum game is nothing like my play so far this game and in both of those games he linked, sho did provide some sort of explanation for his vote or reads.

So Sho isn't playing her scum or town game based on those
so why do you think she's scum here?

Because I don’t use meta and I find her posts here highly suspicious.

[Gustavo]

UNVOTE: Gustavo

I'd like input from others.

Idk I think there might be something there but I wasn't paying to much attention cos you guys were having like 3 different conversations and I only really paid attention to one while going through it
PEdit: I already said I understood the intent of the post. 5 scumpoints for House Gustavo.

I wasn’t responding to you. My response was to whoever he was talking to, but thanks. How can I earn more scum points? I want the most

[Gustavo]

like half of your case was based on meta and whether or not she gives reasons for votes

No my case has absolutely nothing to do with meta. The point of the meta dive was to prove she lied. The lying, not cooperating, refusing to provide a reason for her vote, and misrepping other players while accusing me of it are basically why I’m scum reading.

If town can you please try better at reading comprehension? It makes the game so much easier if you actually know what you’re talking about before speaking.

Thank you

[Gustavo]

also, again, can you show me where you think she was lying?

I honestly don’t believe you didn’t see the post.

[Gustavo]

Skitter, I didn't lie about anything. Gus thinks I lied because I said I voted without providing any reasoning in Tropical and he's in denial about the reality that I did in fact vote without reasoning in Tropical. I think Irrelephant cleared this up earlier.

ok thank you because i still wasn't sure what the lie was

i really don't think this is significant or like ai at all

He did lie. Quite blatantly and because he tried to use that lie against me, it makes it AI

[Gustavo]

No shit. What do you think my answer will tell you about my alignment if you know I do this as town?

As you know from Tropical, I don't always state my reasons for voting. So why ask this question?

No shit. What do you think my answer will tell you about my alignment if you know I do this as town?

Lies by shoshin fwiw

[Gustavo]

As you know from Tropical, I don't always state my reasons for voting. So why ask this question?

Sorry meant this one and not the duplicate

[Gustavo]

A lot of shoshin's reason-less votes have been toward the end of creating wagons imo
That's what's pro-town about her play and her voting

Idk what this means. End of creating wagons?

I don't see that anyone responded to this so what was meant was that shoshin's goal was creating wagons

Somebody did respond and I responded back.

[Gustavo]

Idk why I keep switching genders in my posts. Just a bad habit.

[Gustavo]

I don’t really wish dragging the shoshin conversation on any longer. Either you side with me or side with her. Telling me I’m wrong isn’t going to change my mind because clearly I don’t agree with that. If you want to say it isn’t AI, that’s great you don’t think so but from what I’ve seen of her play, all of her play, it’s AI for me. You are entitled to your opinion, I’m entitled to mine. Nobody is really pointing to anything protown from her which also supports my read. Now don’t go run off and do that either because I’ve made my mind up.

If you want this game to turn into a shit show, I assure you that it will turn into one if you continue trying to change my mind. My mind isn’t open to be changed on this topic. Not day 1 anyway.

[Gustavo]

Says the dude who keeps posting without having read most of the game?

A lot of replacements don’t read the entire game. I don’t need to waste time reading everything when I can iso people. That’s more valuable anyway. I can cut through the fluff

[Gustavo]

Gamma, can you link some representative games of you as town/scum?

Honestly I have so many games of varying quality that it's kinda hard to do that without also omitting some element of my play
would you like one good and one bad of each?
also VOTE: Gustavo because at this point he rings more of scum who just doesn't give a shit if he's wrong rather than town who's tunneled.

VOTE: gamma

Since nobody wants to lynch sho, I’ll go here.

[Gustavo]

Irrespective of shosh, I'm offended that you don't count the things multiple people have said were pro town about her.

I haven’t seen a lot. The things I have are very easily done by scum.

[Gustavo]

VOTE: Gamma

UNVOTE:

[Gustavo]

Gonna calm down and do some reading. My vote on sho isn’t going to do anything. I honestly don’t understand how people aren’t seeing it but whatever.

I’m fine with a gamma lynch tho

[Gustavo]

VOTE: gamma

The fact he’s not voted all game and his first vote is on me and his reason basically implies he knows I’m town is a red flag for me

I can’t be scum who doesn’t give a shit if I’m wrong. I’m fairly obviously town. He’s not scum hunting imo.

[Gustavo]

I don’t know what I should read now.

[Gustavo]

I need to find the 3rd scum. I’m not reading the entire game though. I guess I can just iso random people

[Gustavo]

Adding this to things I don't like from Keyser.

What was wrong with that post? Where are the other things you don’t like?

My predecessor felt strong he was town. Idk why yet but I want to see why you don’t agree

[Gustavo]

VOTE: gamma

The fact he’s not voted all game and his first vote is on me and his reason basically implies he knows I’m town is a red flag for me

I can’t be scum who doesn’t give a shit if I’m wrong. I’m fairly obviously town. He’s not scum hunting imo.

How can't you be that? Despite half or more of the game telling you you're wrong you're still bullrushing the "shoshin is scum for lying" idea. As I see it you will never consider a counterargument because it doesn't fit your scum agenda.

Being wrong implies I don’t know sho’s alignment. So I can’t be wrong and scum.

I can be scum pushing a mislynch but you didn’t say that. I could easily call that a scum slip on your part.

Me as scum would be stupid to push somebody everyone is town reading because of the negative attention I’d receive, and look. I’m receiving negative attention.

[Gustavo]

Shoshin was like "I like to trip up scum asap in every game" and Keyser was like "Okay but if that works this time couldn't you still be scum though" (obviously this is just one interpretation of his words but it's the one I'm reading rn)

Ok but I still don’t understand what’s wrong with it. Sho as scum could easily replicate his town play. But sho has a terrible track record at finding scum so nobody should listen to him when he brags.

[Gustavo]

Shoshin is still a woman, btw

Bad habit. I’m trying best I can.

[Gustavo]

I can't think of myself ever asking that as town at that point

Fine I get that. It’s sort of like my read on sho. I can’t see town doing what he has done but you town read him for it.

[Gustavo]

I'm saying your logic is wrong. Multiple people have objected to your reasoning and you haven't taken any of it in.

This still implies I’m town.

I’m not taking it in because those people aren’t really looking at his actions. They are biased because they already town read him and they refuse to consider a new perspective.

Nobody has explained why town sho would lie like he did, why town sho would refuse to answer me, or even why town show would accuse others of misrepping when he is guilty of it himself.

So since nobody can do that, their opinions don’t really hold any weight.

This is basically multiple cases of conf.bias.

[Gustavo]

Btw gamma, The fact you went a majority of the day without voting anyone is a huge red flag. The few times I’ve seen that those people flipped scum. Even if I’m wrong and you are actually town, it’s shameful you’ve done that.

[Gustavo]

But sho didn't even lie?

She did and I proved she did. That’s my issue right now. How can do many people deny actual proof is beyond me.

[Gustavo]

I'm gonna need you to demonstrate how what she has said about her meta is a lie.

Did that already. She said she doesn’t give reasons or whatever (can’t remember the exact phrase) but most of her votes has reason. She said I should know based off her meta she doesn’t do this but her meta showed she did.

That’s a lie. A straight up, bold faced lie

[Gustavo]

Nauci

Why did you vote nauci immediately after math did with absolutely no reason for it and hardly any mention of him prior?

As you know from Tropical, I don't always state my reasons for voting. So why ask this question?

Btw if you look at shoshin’s town game. His first serious vote on invisibility includes reasons with his vote - viewtopic.php?p=10200938#p10200938

His 2nd serious vote was on mumble and it included reasons - viewtopic.php?p=10212098#p10212098

His 3rd serious vote was on me and it included reasons - viewtopic.php?p=10220015#p10220015

His 4th vote lacked reason but his 5th had some.

Please somebody verify what I’ve just posted and see if what sho says below is truthful.

As you know from Tropical, I don't always state my reasons for voting. So why ask this question?

Sorry but the 1 time late game isn’t enough to make her statement true. Almost every vote had reasons. There were a couple other votes that she brings up later and I explained why I didn’t count those not. She confused her games and those votes around that time seemed to be related to them.

[Gustavo]

And damn you for making me talk about that bullshit again.

[Gustavo]

Gustavo have you glanced at Shoshin's town game in "Newbie 1869 | Stuff I found online II"?

No. Why would I?

[Gustavo]

my internet is acting up due to some outage and I am low on data so bbl

[Gustavo]

Well I'm having trouble knowing if you still scumread Nauci for her naked vote but regardless it's Shoshin's most recent town meta and it's relevant to a lot of things you are thinking/saying

the only reason I was looking at that game was because she mentioned that game. She said I should know better because that is what she did that game.

The reality of the matter is I was super busy during that game and barely paid attention, especially since town was attacking each other. I honestly didn't really remember much about her and only pushed her after a specific incident made her look bad. That incident was due to another idiot townie and not sho's fault but of course as scum I was taking advantage of it.

So when THIS game she says she is doing what she did in that game, I quickly iso'd her and searched for "vote:" and learned that she gave reasons for her first couple of serious votes outside of rvs. That alone makes this game different than that game and her comparison of the 2 is a farce.

Now she could very well be town here and just mis-remembered, but she didn't say that after I showed the difference. She didn't even respond to me when I showed her the differences. Guilty go silent. Town defend themselves imo.

That is where I am at and unless I see an innocent result on her, which I won't see today, I am sticking with MY read. I don't care if nobody else agrees with me. I accepted that and have moved on to gamma. Talking about my read of sho is pointless and if we are both town, scum is laughing about it because that is how scum won that other game.

That is where I am leaving it. I am going to try and just put my scum read of her on the backburner and start looking for other scum. I don't want to tunnel anymore and I don't want to argue. it's statistically proven to be detriment to town when these kinds of arguments happen.

I like a gamme lynch, i'd be ok with maybe a math or skitter lynch also. The worst and nauci I feel are townish to me and anyone else not mentioned I don't have a read on them yet.

Please do not ask me about sho anymore today. There is literally nothing else I can say that I haven't already.

Thank you

[Gustavo]

At least the name links to the vote. Thanks.

[Gustavo]

IDK. I feel like I internally put forth a real shake on the scumshin idea, and it just didn't hold water under scrutiny

Weren’t you upset that sho answered questions before somebody else could answer them and was stepping all over your ability to scum hunt? those aren’t things town typically do so I feel you should at least have a low grade scum read on her but it doesn’t seem you do if you’re defending her.

[Gustavo]

From a probabilistic perspective, scum says this more often than town I think, in the weighted sense
1048 is also bad

1. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen scum say that. Town need people to work together scum doesn’t.
2. I don’t understand how that post could be perceived as bad if you understand how wagon analysis works but ok...

[Gustavo]

Let’s lynch Gamma and end this day already

[Gustavo]

Still definitely want to keep talking with Gustavo

About what? I’m here.

[Gustavo]

Dislike Gus calling for early end of day w/ so many people not posting

But

Okay I realize that deadline is coming up fast,

This is happening and the fact people aren’t posting is exactly the reason. I don’t see an alternative happening and this is a viable option.

[Gustavo]

do you think shoshin and gamma are scum together, y/n?

@gustavo for like the third time

Idk

[Gustavo]

hasn't answered "do you think Gamma and Shosh are scum together" yet

Yes I have.

[Gustavo]

Hamma Emerald

[Gustavo]

Still definitely want to keep talking with Gustavo

About what? I’m here.

Well I want to continue our dialogue wrt shoshin, but in addition I want to know what you make of the stall that happened

I have no interest in talking about shoshin. I’m not sure what stall people are talking about. It seems that people continue to lurk or be inactive.

[Gustavo]

People are probably bored like I am. I called for the day to end a while back. We just need to end it. The stall could be because you are scum and it’s mostly town on it, or you are town and it’s scum led.

Who knows

[Gustavo]

If you are scum Bernie looks bad.

[Gustavo]

My experience with Nm is he’s useless and never actually plays the game. He literally does nothing to help town

[Gustavo]

My experience with Nm is he’s useless and never actually plays the game. He literally does nothing to help town

How does he not get PLed every game

Wat

Cause people rather lynch scum over PL somebody

[Gustavo]

My experience with Nm is he’s useless and never actually plays the game. He literally does nothing to help town

He actually has good reads as town, just is rarely interested in pushing them aggressively.

BTW assuming you're an alt--have I played with your main? maybe twice as TvS?

I doubt we’ve played but could be. Been a couple years.

[Gustavo]

The only people who really commit to PL’s on me are the noobs and the desperate, and Gamma ain’t no noob

Why do you put yourself into that position?

[Gustavo]

Nauci, earlier you were concerned at a lack of counter. There seems to have been an attempt for a Bernie one and now a momgral one.

So how do you feel now that there have been attempts made? I do have to read how you did a 180 on mom because I’m pretty sure you had him as town earlier.

[Gustavo]

i don't understand why it's super hard to make a mom wagon a thing t

Cause there is a perfectly viable scum wagon on gamma. People trying to push a counter are suspicious

[Gustavo]

ok, let's try it this way. given that you scumread them both independantly what do you think of the fact that shoshin is pushing a gamma lynch right now?

I’m ok with it. I’m the only one scum reading him apparently so I could be wrong. He also could just be bussing for town cred.

[Gustavo]

um, no, the the entire point of the game is to figure out which of the two it is; atm i think it's the latter from the complacent gamestate

There is no way to know for sure. I think he’s scum so I’ve “figured it out”

[Gustavo]

IMO "wait why would you town read me here" posts are towny; not accepting someone's town read of you and making them cough up a reason is scum hunting just as if it is with any other town read on any other player. That might be, to me, his most town post on a very short list of them.

I’ve done this very thing as scum. It’s literally the easiest thing to fake.

[Gustavo]

no, people ignoring that there *isn't* a counter is suspicious

There has been 2 attempts at a counter. Just because they never took off, doesn’t negate the fact that 2 have been attempted.

[Gustavo]

you know that shoshin voting gamma so blase-ly like that is an indicator that they aren't scum together, right?

Ahh to be young and inexperienced again. I remember those days.

[Gustavo]

Sorry that’s incorrect. That Bernie counter attempt was before you made your comment. I put gamma to 5 and Bernie gets to 3 out of nowhere and pretty close together. That’s a huge red flag yet you act like a counter attempt didn’t happen.

"Our new Constitution is now established, everything seems to promise it will be durable; but, in this world, nothing is certain except death and taxes."

Votecount 1.14

Gamma Emerald(4)

~ Mathdino(59), Bernie Sanders(107), Shoshin(186), Not_Mafia(39)

Momrangal(2)

~ skitter30(98), Nauci(78)

Nauci(2)

~ Momrangal(45), the worst(122)

Gustavo(1)

~ Gamma Emerald(78)

Not Voting (4): Irrelephant11(104), Keyser Söze(127), Gustavo (108), Errantparabola(7)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-07-04 17:10:00)

"Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing."

Votecount 1.15

Gamma Emerald(5)

~ Mathdino, Bernie Sanders, Shoshin, Not_Mafia, Gustavo

Bernie Sanders(3)

~ Keyser Söze, Irrelephant11, Momrangal

Momrangal(2)

~ skitter30, Nauci

Nauci(1)

~ the worst

Gustavo(1)

~ Gamma Emerald


Not Voting (1): Errantparabola

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-07-04 17:10:00)

I've decided to remove the post count from the vote counts and just do the rest of them by hand since I keep messing up the settings. Please always tell me if I miss a vote or make a mistake

[Gustavo]

VOTE: Bernie Sanders

I actually have a feeling

VOTE: bernie sanders

VOTE: bernie

[Gustavo]

i find the lack of a counter wagon' possibly disturbing;

Post numbers don’t lie.

[Gustavo]

And this just one of the reasons why I’m suspicious of skitter.

[Gustavo]

The gamma wagon literally just started. It’s too soon to say there was no traction.

You made that comment when gamma had 2 votes and literally 2 more were added.

0-2.

What else you got? Or you just going to take the K

[Gustavo]

Interesting using the $10 word, but it doesn’t change the fact that the argument you have made a couple of times has just been disproven.

You are saying that the lack of a counter is suspicious but there have been attempts at them which means your point is invalid.

Doesn’t matter what word you use to describe it, but since the wagon started, there has absolutely been resistance to it. As soon as he got to l-2, people started scrambling.

And tbh you don’t necessarily need a counter wagon. You just need people to spread their votes around.

A gamma lynch points to somebody on Bernie being scum if gamma flips scum.
It probably points to somebody on the other counter also.

Let’s flip gamma already and find out. Your resistance to it makes you look bad if he flips scum.

[Gustavo]

honestly i don't really have patience to argue this with you given that you apparently don't have a problem with shoshin voting gamma

Clearly I don’t. That’s a stupid thing go bring up.

You just struck out.

[Gustavo]

$10 word

what?

A ten dollar word is a longer word that is used in place of a smaller and more well-known word. The origin of ten dollar words dates back to the early 19th century when writers and speakers would use highfalutin words to inflate their appearance and seem smarter than the more average man.

Google is awesome btw. You could have just googled it.

[Gustavo]

...because I assumed "can't really explain rn" meant "I will remember to get to this later when I have time"?

[Gustavo]

Gamma isn’t town

[Gustavo]

VOTE: keyeser

Really hate when people say they are going to do stuff instead of actually doing it.

[Gustavo]

Again. Stop saying what you’re going to do instead of doing stuff. There is literally no point in making a post telling us what you’re going to do. It serves no purpose.

It’s basically “hey guys. I’m going to do some really pro-town stuff later. I just want everyone to know about it” it’s garbage. Go do it and stfu until it’s done

[Gustavo]

There will unlikely be any unnecessary/NAI posts like this anymore.

You just made 2 of them.

Hey guys I’m making an unnecessary post here just to tell you I’m not going yon be making any unnecessary posts.

It’s fucking lamist to the millionth degree. It sucks and serves no purpose other than to make yourself look like you’re going to be protown at some point

[Gustavo]

I still personally think sho is scum but if I’m all alone I’m not wasting anymore time pushing it. Skittle is scummy also. Bernie’s weird hammer looks bad also. I don’t remember my day 1 read of keyser was but his day 2 gut pings me hard. These mom votes also ping me.

[Gustavo]

Nobody

[Gustavo]

Didn’t realize you were voting Keyser.

[Gustavo]

Like if you actually read my posts you’d know my vote has absolutely nothing to do with you voting him.

[Gustavo]

I’m voting people I find scummy. I’m not going to let my scum read of you affect that. Everyone thinks you are town so I have to ignore my own scum read of you and continue to play the game.

And as I said earlier I didn’t realize you were voting Keyser. The fact that you are doesn’t change my opinion of Keyser. So if you are town, stfu and vote who you are genuinely scum reading. If you are scum keep up this crappy shit. Town will see through it the moment I’m lynched and flip town.

[Gustavo]

Remember, Town has to work together to find scum. Day one shows my willingness time do that. I could have easily death tunneled you. I can do it now if you really want me to but if you are town then that would be stupid right?

These little things you do keep adding to my scum read of you but people are too blind to see it.

[Gustavo]

God my fucking typos.

[Gustavo]

The reason my heart scumreads Gustavo is that his aggressive play seems more intended to scare us away from scumreading him than to actually sort other players or help town see his POV. The above seems like a good example.

But then my brain joins everyone else in thinking Stungun was too towny...

What’s wrong with aggressive play? If somebody has a good reason to scum read me my aggression shouldn’t stop them. My aggression is a playstyle though and a terrible reason to scum read me.

[Gustavo]

Well I can’t help but be aggressive. That’s how I play

[Gustavo]

Btw all of my cases have come from a logical and non emotional stance so that point is 100% false

[Gustavo]

I’ve been 100% logical the entire game actually

[Gustavo]

But my premises aren’t wrong.

[Gustavo]

But aggression means screaming other people down instead of of explaining your reasoning or premises. "BECAUSE I SAID SO" and "WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE IT'S OBVIOUS" are so utterly unproductive as to be counter productive and actively make you impossible to sort.


But aggression means screaming other people down instead of of explaining your reasoning or premises. "BECAUSE I SAID SO" and "WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE IT'S OBVIOUS" are so utterly unproductive as to be counter productive and actively make you impossible to sort.

Ive explained every single one of my reasons so who are you talking about?

I’ve explained my reasons for sho, gamma, Keyser, I’ve mentioned things I’ve found scummy about skittle.

So if this post is meant to describe me, you are completely off base.

I’ve never once said “because I said so” or “what’s wrong with you people”

[Gustavo]

And most others obviously seem to disagree with your premises

I don’t care if poeple agree with them. I can’t control what I find scummy. That’s why I abandoned my sho push. I really regret doing it but that’s the thing people hate about my play so I adapted to please people. It sucks for me but that’s how I get better supposedly. It’s not working

[Gustavo]

I’ve been intentionally not playing the way you described because of an issue I can’t discuss right now so I know you’re lying.

[Gustavo]

Why? Isn’t the goal to find scum?

[Gustavo]

Like I don’t need to town read people to work with people. I’d town read more people if they stopped doing things to make me doubt it. Like i really really want to yownnread both you and nauci. On the surface you both look town but you do things that make me doubt it. This conversation for example there is no way I see either of your train of thought coming from town because your describing somebody else and saying that’s me.

[Gustavo]

Lol it would be nicer if you would just know I’m town and believe the things I say

But I guess I could write out my thought process in full more often, when that’s helpful

Like this post pings me. Imo town shouldn’t have to make such declarations. It rubs me the wrong way. Instead of expecting people to just trust you, be transparent.

[Gustavo]

I feel like I’m pretty transparent? Ask me any question, if you’re genuinely unsure how to sort me

I mean that’s why I want to town read you but then you make scummy posts sometimes. Scum have to appear town and I feel you are doing a good job of looking town but I don’t get that feeling it’s genuine

[Gustavo]

Scumreading half the game isn’t helpful or accurate. 1701 is aggressive, as was a lot of what you had to say regarding shoshin yesterday. I’m not misrepping you.

That statement to Nauci was meant as a joke, duh “I’m town” doesn’t help

I’m not scum reading half the game though. I have 2 solid scum reads. The rest I’m trying to sort

[Gustavo]

VOTE: Skitter
Just a feeling. y’all should sheep me

You weren’t being transparent here.

Actually given that she's V/LA till the 9th (wow) I'd say it means she's the designated vote-for-people-not-paying-enough-attention

I'll come back to her later

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Or here.

I found other examples of you not being transparent or sheeping votes for little to no reason.

You aren’t transparent when it matters imo.

[Gustavo]

I have no idea why you voted not mafia. You know why I voted Keyser.

I don’t hate the not mafia vote but he’s playing the same useless way he plays every game so I don’t think you have a real reason to vote him. Just like you don’t have a reason to scum read me.

Playstyle is non ai

[Gustavo]

mean according to your 1678 you scumread Keyser, Bernie, Skitter, me

Finding people scummy doesn’t mean I think they are scum.

[Gustavo]

And you haven’t offered any townreads

And?

I said I didn’t have any. Even if I did I’m not required to share them.

[Gustavo]

I’m not getting a very strong “let’s find scum” vibe from you,

Then you clearly aren’t looking hard. My vote on Keyser is vey clearly me trying to sort him. He’s posted useless posts saying what he’s going to do which literally equals fluff. He then says he agrees with a stupid post stunt made about not posting content and he says he isn’t going to do it but he does it anyway.

Putting pressure on him to actually follow through is trying to sort him.

[Gustavo]

It’s just astounding to me you have no townreads to offer in a game that’s 3/4 town and you are supposedly on a team that is trying to sort & separate town and scum.

Ok but that doesn’t mean I’m scum.

I gave up on everyone when they ignored blatant lies by sho. How can I town read poeple who think that kind of lying is acceptable?

I’ll work with people but I can’t town read them.

So if that’s a problem get rid of me before lylo cause I’m voting him out of the gate if we are both alive.

[Gustavo]

If I’ve made potentialscum!Gustavo aware that he can’t skste by on aggression I’m satisfied for now

I haven’t skated by on aggression though. Stop misrepping my play

[Gustavo]

I’m being left alive for the mislynch in lylo

[Gustavo]

I’m being left alive for the mislynch in lylo

Your slot is pretty safe right now (due to your previous slot's endeavours).
No need for you to look at yourself right now.
Consolidate your scum feels on everyone you have a ping for.

That was just meant as a joke. I’m good with my reads for now. Thanks.

[Gustavo]

Not mafia should always be policy lynched but this site is so anti-policy lynching.

[Gustavo]

Pretty certain I know who Gustavo is

You’re wrong

[Gustavo]

antagonistic way

Say what?

[Gustavo]

Well you should care, because theoretically your premises are facts and people are saying they are incorrect.

No people are just saying they don’t agree with me, my premises are in fact correct

[Gustavo]

Whether or not Shoshin explained all of her reads or just some of them in the game you mentioned seems to be a fact, not an opinion, and multiple people have pointed out that it was the latter and therefore not inconsistent with this game.

Shoshin’s entire reaction to my posts and then shading me because “I should know this is how she plays” or whatever the exact phrase was when this game is drastically different then that game is a huge problem for me. Even if she is town here, I don’t see why she would say that to me when her play was drastically different. She refused to work with me and refused to explain why she voted. She wasn’t being transparent with me nor was she showing a willingness to work together. So everyone else can defend her all they want, but to me that interaction should never come from town. Her posts were scummy as f to me and I just can’t ignore it no matter how many people disagree with it.

Nobody can tell me how that attitude and blatant misrep (since nobody wants to call it a lie) is town mentality and because of that, I can’t listen to anyone’s opinion anymore.

I’ll jist play my game, push my people, and compromise when I have to.

Let’s take today for example. Shoshin abandoned his vote to vote me because I just happened to vote the same person as them. Why does that even matter? Why does that make me a good vote? It doesn’t. Shos isn’t trying to find scum imo.

[Gustavo]

VOTE: Stungun

No reason for this. Stun had just voted nauci and given how hard nauci has been defending sho, I could easily see them scum together and this was a chainsaw vote. It makes sense sho didn’t want to explain it.

VOTE: Nauci

This vote is weird. No reason for it and math just voted there.

VOTE: Gustavo

Voted me because I was pressuring her. Basically omgus

VOTE: Gustavo

Unvotes me after I proved she misrepped me (blatantly lied imo)

VOTE: Gamma

No reason....

So far this game is nothing like her town game she tried to say was similar to the one we played.

VOTE: Key

No reasons...

VOTE: Gustavo

Voted me because I voted the same person as she did.

What’s the difference? I gave reasons for my vote. She didn’t.

There is zero scum hunting in her votes. There is zero transparency, there is zero signs of teamwork.

I’m done discussing it anymore. She’s fucking scum or a really really terrible town player and her play this game is drastically different than the town game I played with her.

VOTE: shos

Peace out.

[Gustavo]

Either i’m very out of touch or youre greatly exaggerating how often that sort of thing happens? If i caught stungun’s interaction i’d have probably called it scummy too

Almost every action in the game has a towny and scummy interpretation it just so happens that the TvS interpretation for that specific one happens to be a very plausible one

FTR stun never voted sho, so she’s definitely misrepping yet again.

Sho voted me twice, twice I make great posts and she backs off.

Shos is scum. You should vote her. Everyone should.
Nauci is good also. There is no crumb in her posts like she said.

They are probably a pair

[Gustavo]

Serious vote though, VOTE: Gamma Emerald for 100% 4/4 fluff posting

Terrible. Not a good reason for a serious vote.

VOTE: The Worst

I honestly couldn't decide where to throw my vote but then I read this

hey now you don't tell me what to do!

Also this only brings you to -2

1. Opportunistic as hell
2. Terrible reason to vote somebody

VOTE: Irrelephant11

Serious vote.

Don’t have time to read the reasons but Irrelephant11 was already voting nauci.

VOTE: not_mafia

Policy lynch vote? Really?

I'll vote with 2 of my town reads while I wait VOTE: momrangal

Late day 1 this is not acceptable

Let's start with the fact that VOTE: Mathdino you jerk come in here and actually post the catch up you promised several times

Clearly math stopped playing this game. A better vote could have been placed.

Here seems decent while I still don't have time to catch up

VOTE: the worst

Yet another terrible vote.

Not a single protown vote all game imo

[Gustavo]

Nauci did not suggest that she has actually crumbed a role, she said “what more do you want, an obvious crumb of my role?”

My bad. I misread

[Gustavo]

Instead of laughing at me just point out my mistake. Don’t be an asshat

[Gustavo]

This is the bullshit I’m taking about. Not only does nobody see glaring scum, they ignore blatant misreps, take cheap jabs, and make fun of me. Sorry I’m human. I make mistakes.

Fuck this shit

[Gustavo]

I did not know that

[Gustavo]

I think Not_Mafia's and Gustavo's vote are both pretty bad but Gustavo's isn't bad enough to outweigh my stungun townread

Have you even addressed the 2 cases I’ve made on sho? Skimming your posts I don’t believe you have. Until you explain town mentality for the things I’ve pointed out, you can’t say my vote is bad.

[Gustavo]

Checked again. You haven’t given opinions on either case so piss off calling my vote bad. It’s the best case I’ve seen by anyone in the game.

[Gustavo]

I would strongly recommend lynching scum
who are you voting for?

He’s voting me.

Nobody is voting shos which is a shame because she’s actually scum

[Gustavo]

Still you

[Gustavo]

If I knew you were town I’d still policy lynch you. You’ve lied and been uncooperative which means I can’t trust you to cooperate with me later when it’s more useful.

Twice I made great posts that show you are scum and you didn’t even try to defend yourself. Town defend themselves from false accusations, scum try and ignore them and hope others do as well.

Plus that whole scum/town thing that somebody else pointed out was spot on. You trying to shade my predecessor as doing the same when it never happened is just more shade throwing. When asked about it you again just tried to ignore it instead of supporting your claim.

This isn’t a town mindset and if people can’t see that idk what else to do

[Gustavo]

Ill only vote you/skittle/elephant today.

[Gustavo]

Ill only vote you/skittle/elephant today.

Scumread of me is new I think? Where’d that come from?

Where’d your other scumreads (for example on Mom) go?

You being an ass made me want to lynch you. Pretty sure I haven’t had a mom scum read today.

[Gustavo]

Gus, I haven't responded to a lot of your attacks because I don't want to clutter the game with a long back-and-forth with you that isn't going to lead anywhere. I think you're town, so I was hoping we could still discuss the game despite the fact that you scumread me. But if you think I'm a policy lynch, nevermind. That's the type of thinking that makes working with you impossible.

Ignoring relevant things is scummy. We didn’t have to hve a long back and forth, a simple reasonable explanation and an attempt to show you were willing to work with, not against me would have gone a long way.

[Gustavo]

Okay, so what is your opinion of page 87?

I haven’t read it in depth, what am I supposed to be looking for?

[Gustavo]

Ill only vote you/skittle/elephant today.

Sorry I left off nauci.

[Gustavo]

Okay, so what is your opinion of page 87?

I haven’t read it in depth, what am I supposed to be looking for?

teach us your ways of town teamwork, wise sensei

How does asking you what I’m supposed to be looking for show an unwillingness to work together?

[Gustavo]

There are lots of pages I have to read that was missed while on v/la. Asking me to comment on page 87 without reading the pages before that is kind of hard. I need context that I don’t have. I’ve been skimming while on vacation.

For instance I misread bv’s post. I thought he said my vote today was bad. He was referring to day 1 on gamma. None of the active posters even pointed that out to me which pings me. Why didn’t somebody correct me?

Let me sit down and read tomorrow with my AC is being worked on and I’ll have more time. I’ve been on vacation since the 3rd.

[Gustavo]

I'm going to hard pull the BoP card and ask people to stop speccing PR and NK stuff anymore today, and I think I have to insist on mom today over duck. Nauci irrelephant I'm sorry but despite the meta thing I think my experience makes my judgment here more reliable.

Earlier you made a post wanting to read your points for mom, but when I went looking I couldn’t find points. Where are these points I’ve missed?

[Gustavo]

2217 being directed to Gustavo

I’ll get to this tomorrow probably. Thank you

[Gustavo]

Not majoring in anything (dropped out of Carnegie Mellon Computer Science ages ago).

I'm in a programming bootcamp 10 hours a day with 3-6 hours of homework, and I've been trying to catch up on sick days. Missing one day is like missing several weeks of a class at college

Question. If I had data exported in an xml format and wanted to use that data to create a program or better yet an app that would send reminders when things were due to be renewed.

What language would best work for that kind of thing?

Thank you

[Gustavo]

Gustavo can you please respond to this, or maybe let me know that you're going to later? I'd like to know why you are no longer scumreading Bernie or Keyser, and whether or not you scumread me (& if so, why).

I don’t town read you. I’m good with day 1 policy lynches.

Sho/skittles/nauci are my current scum reads. I don’t have good feelings about you or Bernie.

Though I’m kind of annoyed right now. Not a single person scum reads the scummiest person in the game yet nobody can explain what about this behavior makes him town.

[Gustavo]

I guess I’ll talk to brass. Hey brass. You’ve provided some very cool presidential facts. Are you going to be a politician one day?

[Gustavo]

Cool

[Gustavo]

Anyone is better than chump.

[Gustavo]

Yeah, I'm noticing that as well. Very difficult to get people to work as a team here.

Hey sho, what happened to this person? Why are you so anti-working together this game?

[Gustavo]

FTR vla should only stop a wagon d1 because it's about content/pressure then. I kind of just want flip now.

Also, Skitter Bernie admitted right here that he was aiming to push me to lynch and that my V/la means fuck all

He says that v/la should stop a wagon. That means he isn’t pushing to a lynch. We would learn nothing if you were lynched day 1 while on v/la and no townie worth his shit would allow that to happen.

[Gustavo]

Oh wait we are day 2.

Never mind. That’s more scum points for bernie.

We should never lynch somebody while on v/la regardless of day

[Gustavo]

More reasons to dislike the mom wagon. I don’t even have a read on mom but like the reasons just suck

[Gustavo]

Yeah, I'm noticing that as well. Very difficult to get people to work as a team here.

Hey sho, what happened to this person? Why are you so anti-working together this game?

I've been trying to work with everyone... You're the one who refuses to work with me. I tried discussing reads with you but all you want to do is tell me how I'm scum when I know I'm not.

Do I need to remind you of the way you reacted to me asking you questions when I came in? You were very combative and blatantly lied.

So want to give me a better answer? Or do you just want to claim scum that I know you are?

[Gustavo]

Nauci

Why did you vote nauci immediately after math did with absolutely no reason for it and hardly any mention of him prior?

As you know from Tropical, I don't always state my reasons for voting. So why ask this question?

Because I want your reason.

No shit. What do you think my answer will tell you about my alignment if you know I do this as town?

You aren’t trying to work together here.

[Gustavo]

VOTE: Gustavo

Or here

[Gustavo]

I regret replacing into this game now. None of my scum reads are ever going to get lynched and my cases get ignored.

[Gustavo]

I felt (and still feel) like you are the one who isn't trying to work with me.

You are correct. Because you are caught scum or town playing horrible. If town you burned a bridge you didn’t have to burn. You lied when you didn’t have the lie. You were combative when you didn’t need to be.

[Gustavo]

Now, if you want to keep pushing me and ignoring all the evidence that I wasn't lying

Evidence proves you were though.

[Gustavo]

Jake literally does this every game just ignore him.

I’m not Jake.

[Gustavo]

I can't. Having my townreads tunnel me like this actually throws me off my game.

This is all your own doing. You could have just had a normal conversation and answered my questions. This game would be completely different.

Now I’m scum reading you and literally nothing you say can change that.

[Gustavo]

Whatever, I hope he gets into the game now instead of tunneling me.

Why would I stop tunneling you?

[Gustavo]

Wow. What a fucking idiot.

Unnecessary.

[Gustavo]

So if you are town. You were combative when you didn’t need to be. You blatantly misrepped (lied) about your play last game (I proved this true), and you claimed doctor when you were under no threat of being lynched.

Yeah don’t worry if I’m wrong about you, I’ll never play with you again.

That said, I don’t think I’m wrong about you. It doesn’t matter though cause nobody is lynching you.

I will say that if you were town, there is no way scum would kill me so your story is definitely not believable. You as town were more likely the person to be killed.

Why would scum kill me unless my reads were right. If they are right you are scum

[Gustavo]

tbf he does have a point - going into night yesterday he's not the person i would have guessed was going to get nk'd

but can the two of you maybe stop engaging each other right now till you're a bit more chill?

Sure. Vote sho please.

I’m not going to stop pushing her until she’s lynched.

[Gustavo]

UNVOTE:

This game is so bizarre. It’s day 2 and we’ve only had one real wagon. No real attempt at a counter wagon at all.

Not that my opinions matter to anyone but my gut says mom flips town. The reasons are hella weak and the lack of a counter speaks volumes.

@shos- if you are town I’m really sorry you had a bad game. @everyone else, I’m really sorry for the hardcore tunneling but I just can’t see town motivation in shos actions. This is the last time I type her name for the rest of my this game and probably my life so you won’t have to worry about any more posts from me about her. I’m just going to pretend she doesn’t exists.

[Gustavo]

If I was a doctor who protected somebody and there wasn’t a Nk, I certainly would never vote them or worry that they voted the same person as me.

But hey I’m different I guess

[Gustavo]

If I was a doctor who protected somebody and there wasn’t a Nk, I certainly would never vote them or worry that they voted the same person as me.

But hey I’m different I guess

[Gustavo]

If I was a doctor who protected somebody and there wasn’t a Nk, I certainly would never vote them or worry that they voted the same person as me.

But hey I’m different I guess

I’ll keep quoting this until somebody explains why town doctor would vote the person they most likely saved from a NK.

This isn’t about tunneling cause I’m not voting the claimed doctor anymore, but this is about evaluating if the claim makes sense with the persons actions.

People seem to believe the claim at face value but this isn’t the time to just believe things at face value.