OPEN 732 : PICK YOUR POWER X/Y (GAME OVER)

[Enigma]

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i am confused?

if you're PGO i'm not really sure why you would announce this unless you were trying to like purposefully not get visited. although if you're town i guess that's probably be the point

Not sure why one would pick a PGO if you were town anyways, considering likely more town PRs than scum PRs. Wouldn't town just choose 1 shot vig?
Plus wtf would ruru, as first seed, choose from that pair?

Ruru could always be vengeful scum and trying to get us to pl her?

[OkaPoka]

Why wouldn't town pick an investigator role first or at least pretend to be one with the low keyness and then pgo.

[ceejayvinoya]

Heeey. Reding backwards.

[ceejayvinoya]

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i am confused?

if you're PGO i'm not really sure why you would announce this unless you were trying to like purposefully not get visited. although if you're town i guess that's probably be the point

Not sure why one would pick a PGO if you were town anyways, considering likely more town PRs than scum PRs. Wouldn't town just choose 1 shot vig?
Plus wtf would ruru, as first seed, choose from that pair?

Ruru could always be vengeful scum and trying to get us to pl her?

Uh I sorta understand.

Town!ruru being on top spot means mafia will prioritize killing her because they think she has this powerful role. Now that she claimed, I'm sure they'll have second thoughts on if visiting her is actually a good idea.

Now we just have to know if this is scum!ruru or town!ruru.

[ceejayvinoya]

I think BuJaber is town. I'm pretty sure scum wouldn't tryhard so early in the game.

@Sando - what is CJ?

Rude. I'm a black mage sir. Townread me or I'll cast meteor.

[AP]

Why wouldn't town pick an investigator role first or at least pretend to be one with the low keyness and then pgo.

Because they'd be a prime target for the NK anyway. If you're #1 in the picking order and you're town, scum will always assume you picked Cop, Role Cop or JK/Tracker. However, TPRs don't know who's town and one of those might be inclined to investigate the person who picked first, hence the claim. (Otherwise it would have been great if she didn't claim and just obv!towned enough to guarantee she gets targeted by the NK on N1).

[ceejayvinoya]

but do wagons really indicate scummy behavior? if anything its townie to want to drive this game out of rvs as soon as possible and running people up can be a good way to do that, turning the game into analysis rather than jokes.

we are right now in a weird spot where it appears some people are still in rvs mode and others aren't.

so my question to everyone is
do scum have a desire to keep the game into RVS?

My problem with Enigma wasn't being on the wagon. It's why he was on the wagon.

That reason why he voted BuJaber looked bogus to me and also looked like an excuse to hop onto the wagon, which I dislike.

Do you honestly believe Enigma believes his scumread on BuJaber?

[ceejayvinoya]

Uh no. Since scum would already know the numbers that their partners picked, it would be less likely that they got the same number as someone.

Though if were considering numbers from one to infinity, it wouldn't matter and it would be negligible.

So yeah, I'm of the opinion that analyzing draft picks of numbers and trying to figure out if scum would pick same numbers or different ones would be exhausting and not very helpful.

Too late, I've already exhausted myself.

I stand corrected. That was actually helpful lols.

[skitter30]

heha second post

VOTE: Oka

trying to drag us out of rvs so soon?

is that a bad thing?

Nah my post was just throwaway rvs filler

fair enough!

--

Not sure why one would pick a PGO if you were town anyways, considering likely more town PRs than scum PRs. Wouldn't town just choose 1 shot vig?
Plus wtf would ruru, as first seed, choose from that pair?

Ruru could always be vengeful scum and trying to get us to pl her?

i can't imagine myself ever picking pgo tbh; the main town motivation i can think of for picking pgo is to kill scum when they try to nk me, but that necessitates: a) obvtowning b) getting nk'd c) trying to ensure that town protectives wont' be on me. like it's hard to predict the nk and i wouldn't want to accidentally kill protectives doing their job correctly if *they* correctly figure out where the nk is going. like there's too many fiddly things going on here for this sort of thing to succeed without fucking up majorly

i agree that this is kinda a waste of a first pick tbh

i think that scum!ruru might come up with a plan of purposefully trying to get pl'd in order to utilize a venge-kill - but i don't think she actually tries to carry that herself; i feel like she tries not to draw attention to herself as scum and that she's very ... safe and strategic and not lolcrazy (source: newbie 1859)

i suppose it's possible she'd prefer getting strategically pl'd by acting crazy to actually trying to play out the game carefully and rationally as scum longterm maybe? but i'm kinda having a hard time seeing her do it tbh - and her doing that as scum means that scum sacrificed the first pick to purposefully pl one of their own and that also seems kinda unlikely to me

[Enigma]

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i am confused?

if you're PGO i'm not really sure why you would announce this unless you were trying to like purposefully not get visited. although if you're town i guess that's probably be the point

Not sure why one would pick a PGO if you were town anyways, considering likely more town PRs than scum PRs. Wouldn't town just choose 1 shot vig?
Plus wtf would ruru, as first seed, choose from that pair?

Ruru could always be vengeful scum and trying to get us to pl her?

Uh I sorta understand.

Town!ruru being on top spot means mafia will prioritize killing her because they think she has this powerful role. Now that she claimed, I'm sure they'll have second thoughts on if visiting her is actually a good idea.

Now we just have to know if this is scum!ruru or town!ruru.

TBH, scum would likely want to pick one from that pair (PGO or one-shot vig) since it's an extra night kill for them essentially. So this means they would have a good chance to know if she is bluffing or not. Plus several town PR to protect/negate/mitigate/watch/etc. Keep in mind town PRs are less likely to know if she is lying or not.
So ruru's whole play has been decidedly anti-town by either wasting a good town PR opportunity, or calling for herself as a town PR to likely be killed.

Anti-town vs scum vs noob hrrrmmmm...

[brassherald]

Ruru, if town, was assured to be a town PR. Why wouldn't she likely be killed?

If she's town, she is literally the only assured town PR.

I'm confused by this all.

[Enigma]

Ruru, if town, was assured to be a town PR. Why wouldn't she likely be killed?

If she's town, she is literally the only assured town PR.

I'm confused by this all.

Because of town PRs such as watcher, jk, doc, commuter, etc. This is a town heavy PR setup. Some WIFOM for scum to deal with as well. Plus scum are likely to hit PRs regardless of targeting number 1, just not targeting number 14 jaja.

[brassherald]

Look, I'm not saying PGO is a good choice, but I understand the choice.

If I had top choice, I would not have picked PGO, though. I really just wouldn't want it at any point, personally.

[OkaPoka]

Why wouldn't town pick an investigator role first or at least pretend to be one with the low keyness and then pgo.

Because they'd be a prime target for the NK anyway. If you're #1 in the picking order and you're town, scum will always assume you picked Cop, Role Cop or JK/Tracker. However, TPRs don't know who's town and one of those might be inclined to investigate the person who picked first, hence the claim. (Otherwise it would have been great if she didn't claim and just obv!towned enough to guarantee she gets targeted by the NK on N1).

but why claim now? the plan falls apart completely and it serves town no purpose.

but do wagons really indicate scummy behavior? if anything its townie to want to drive this game out of rvs as soon as possible and running people up can be a good way to do that, turning the game into analysis rather than jokes.

we are right now in a weird spot where it appears some people are still in rvs mode and others aren't.

so my question to everyone is
do scum have a desire to keep the game into RVS?

My problem with Enigma wasn't being on the wagon. It's why he was on the wagon.

That reason why he voted BuJaber looked bogus to me and also looked like an excuse to hop onto the wagon, which I dislike.

Do you honestly believe Enigma believes his scumread on BuJaber?

I don't think Engima was scumreading BuJaber

VOTE: brass

Hahaha we all played ourselves. Nobody picked 7.
Okay if Oka is town he makes a good point about coordination.
I think we can safely assume that no two people with the same number are scum together.

That said not sure why he'd assume they picked 1.

1 is a ballsy pick. It's like picking 7 and we were all too cowardly to pick 7. I think ruru is town because he wasn't afraid.

I don't know how useful this is, maybe later on if massclaim becomes a thing, but each of us knows for sure that:
- if we got our choice it means nobody above us in the order picked the same X/Y pair.
-if we didn't get our choice it means somebody above us has one of the X/Y pair we picked.

But I picked the same number as you? By your logic (if you were town) that scum would all pick different numbers, why wouldn't you be suspicious of me since there is a higher (random) likelihood I could be scum?

But I know I'm town, so probability says...
VOTE: BuJaber

sounds like he was doing some weird probability calculations/rvs vote. I don't think that is inherently scummy at this phase of the game, it was like a semi-rvs vote. It's not like BuJaber is going to be lynched this quick in the game.

[AP]

but why claim now? the plan falls apart completely and it serves town no purpose.

I wouldn't have claimed tbh, since PGO is "Active" (i.e. you pick which night to activate it). If I was PGO I'd lay low, give the TPRs a chance to check me if they wanted to, and then activate on N2/N3 when I feel like I'm globally TR'd and likely to be NK'd.

That said, ruru might have thought she's a prime NK target becaise she picked first, and -in that case- if a Doctor existed they'd be inclined to be on her. HOWEVER, Doctor may not be in play (it's Doc or RB), so it's better to self-protect and let the "possible" Doctor protect elsewhere.

Like brass, I'm not saying ruru played it the optimal way, but I sure do understand where she's coming from.

[OkaPoka]

So you find it more likely that ruru is being honest about her intentions with the PGO play than potentially fakeclaiming and being an actual vigilante which is mafia aligned?

IMO strongest first pick for mafia would be the vigilante, gives you an extra NK and it removes PGO from play. That or roleblocker which would remove Doctor from play.

What I am saying is that ruru may have not played it optimally for town but maybe she did play it optimally for scum. So now the question is how good is ruru at mafia.

[OkaPoka]

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i am confused?

if you're PGO i'm not really sure why you would announce this unless you were trying to like purposefully not get visited. although if you're town i guess that's probably be the point

Not sure why one would pick a PGO if you were town anyways, considering likely more town PRs than scum PRs. Wouldn't town just choose 1 shot vig?
Plus wtf would ruru, as first seed, choose from that pair?

Ruru could always be vengeful scum and trying to get us to pl her?

if she was vengeful then she would run the risk of getting cc'd by the actual pgo/vig right?
unless she knew real pgo/vig was on her team, adding an extra layer of wifom

[brassherald]

So you find it more likely that ruru is being honest about her intentions with the PGO play than potentially fakeclaiming and being an actual vigilante which is mafia aligned?

IMO strongest first pick for mafia would be the vigilante, gives you an extra NK and it removes PGO from play. That or roleblocker which would remove Doctor from play.

What I am saying is that ruru may have not played it optimally for town but maybe she did play it optimally for scum. So now the question is how good is ruru at mafia.

Okay, if we are going into baseless speculation, what if ruru is town 1 shot vig trying to make sure she doesn't get Roleblocked and killed N1?

I think the best thing to say right now is that we should get off of it, the claim is out there.

If you want to know how good ruru is, check her previous games.

[OkaPoka]

it's a game of limited information and guessing, and based on my limited information + guessing i find it more likely ruru is scum.

who do you think is more likely scum?

[skitter30]

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=75474

i'm having a lot of trouble seeing the person who kept posting to herself 'i am town' in her scum pt (i'm pretty sure this is last scumgame on site barring a marathon game last week) trying to pull any of these things off as scum tbh

[BuJaber]

I wasn't even thinking about the pairing..

Scum vig makes sense for ruru given the pgo claim.

As town she should have either picked a bad power and attracted the scum kill or blocked a strong scum power before scum could take it.
Town pgo shouldn't claim.


Why is starting wagons a bad thing, stargazer ? Or whoever asked

Ftr you can say whatever you want about my play or my posts. Even if something frustrates me I won't get offended. We all scumhunt differently. I've had people say I'm an asshole as town so it'd be unfair if I didn't also accept whatever gets thrown at me.

But to answer the question I find it scummy to disagree with someone who has shared their opinion and given reasons for their opinion without also stating why you disagree.
- it might be laziness
- it might be a way to reduce the person's influence
- it might be a way to make them change the subject (especially if they are on the right track)
- it might be a way to discourage them from sharing their thoughts (this one is rare I don't think people do this often but there is definitely an advantage for scum if town talk less and when a towny's arguments are met with just 'no' / 'wrong' etc, it can be disheartening) now I'm not discouraged by things like that but unless they're an alt they haven't played with me before and thus wouldn't know this about me.

[BuJaber]

Town pgo shouldn't claim.

Town!ruru if pgo shouldn't claim because she had first pick.

Town pgo in regular games probably should claim early.

[ruru]

barring a marathon game last week

Technically suiciding and venging town is my scum meta now

[the worst]

quack

[the worst]

quack