Newbie 1888 | Stuff I Found Online IV | Over

[the worst]

hi inferno!
hi draynth/twinnie!
hi hugo!
hi new friends!

i'm actually really excited to be here. plotinus' modding seems amazing, and i've read the flavour of all 3 of the previous "stuff i found online" games

i am the IC (inexperience-challenged player) for this game. this means that i've taken on a kind of voluntary position to teach newer players as much as possible, in addition to playing this as a regular game of mafia.
this has nothing to do with my actual alignment (not to be confused with innocent child IC ), nor does it mean i'm actually good at mafia! i'm just experienced. but if you have any particular questions about life, the universe, mafia theory, or anything else, please always feel welcome to throw em my way.

in essence, my presence is geared towards following the principles of this shiny guide here:
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _a_good_IC


just so you all know ... i am from australia but i'm fairly

hooked on mafia

active within my timezones. so if i'm not here it's usually because i'm asleep or maybe dead

that's all for my IC fluffpost. i'm pretty fluffy so i'll fluff enough anyway. if you have any questions just yell out.
lemme go catch up :>

[the worst]

@inferno how are you reading mister rogers?
@mister rogers how are you reading inferno?

i have a spicy take. : ]


@xx2008 who do you think is town so far?

[the worst]

I just got done reading a full 200 page game with Worst in it.

gasp which game?

[the worst]

@Duck
Heavy scumlean for now.
Talk to me about that 1v1. What did you come away with from our exchange?

i will soon!
why a heavy scumlean?

oh god
pls stop the spam

VOTE: Mister Rogers

interesting, why the vote?

[the worst]

Rogers, there's a lot of value in letting the thread breathe.
As town, it allows players to actually...play the game
if you keep talking in circles with the same active players forever, it causes so much clutter scum can easily slip under the radar.

as scum, what you're doing is fine.


i just finished a large theme which passed 500 pages. over 300 of those pages were not necessary. by endgame, want a surprise? most of the scumteam were behind thousands of posts of unabashed spam, and heavily criticised town for not letting the thread breathe.

[the worst]

also: I frankly have very little respect for replacing out for virtually no reason.
however, rates of replace-outs in newbies are too high as is. i'd really appreciate it if you could work on the postcount thing for us.

[the worst]

game thread here fyi
scumteam highlighted (including the d1 lynch, d3 lynch, and both other top posters died before endgame)

Spoiler:

fully appreciate that this is a gameplay thing (people have criticised me for overposting) BUT unless the entire playerlist is across that style of play, there does come a time when it has a directly negative effect. :/

[the worst]

yes agreed--possible problem. not a current spamfest.
i'm just cognisant of the fact i want more posting from inferno and xx2008 and have poked them to this effect so i wanna make sure they don't slip under my radar

[the worst]

sure, it's probably not too bad right now. just saw it's a concern and wanted to get it on the table.
it's something i've been really focused on recently, how the flow of the thread impacts town/scum. someone discussed it during an off-site game and after the above-linked game I've found it really interesting.

pedit: sorry, that wasn't intended as a jab at you. more like "please don't make the thread unreadable so everyone just flakes".
for the record your slot is my first strong townread.

[the worst]

when draynth and i first met we had a period of like... a week or two? where we had literally everything in common ergo we're twins/the same person
it's gets pretty scary

i'm pretty keen to hear something from nastytoe & boguspotatohead.
hugo draynth and xx2008 probably owe us some more game related stuff too.

[the worst]

it's all uphill from here! <3
unless you're scum in which case you're going down, then it gets better from there.

any reads so far?

[the worst]

I'm thinking Mister Rogers is scum, as he is making many posts to make the game be filled with them. Then, the other scum could slip under the radar, which I suppose is his intention. Perhaps he didn't know to let the thread breathe? I'm still thinking that he's scum for his previous posts, in trying to ping a reaction out of Inferno. Constantly trying to get a reaction out of someone might make it seem like they are scum when they are not.

who do you think is town so far?

[the worst]

@the worst, I'm thinking you, Hugo, and Inferno are town. You all haven't posted anything to raise my suspicions.

Do you think town or scum are more likely to avoid posting suspicious stuff?
If you're wrong on a townread who would it be in your opinion?

[the worst]

I am assuming we are all adults here playing this game, right?

I'm like 3 weeks old tbf

[the worst]

@the worst, I'm thinking you, Hugo, and Inferno are town. You all haven't posted anything to raise my suspicions.

Do you think town or scum are more likely to avoid posting suspicious stuff?
If you're wrong on a townread who would it be in your opinion?

xx2008 I'm waiting to hear back on this.

[the worst]

so far I think inferno xx2008 rogers and Hugo seem like town, roughly in that order.

which leaves me wondering... if this is a consular ship...where is the ambassador?

[the worst]

onoes it's volxen

hey again friend

[the worst]

Hi Fish, and hi whoever you are now!
Nice to meet you officially. I've read a few of your games, and look forward to playing with you. I also think your slot just might be town.

[the worst]

without checking too hard,

Newbie 1871 by aa9
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=76338
Newbie 1872 by mm4
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=76365

I think a couple of eithers, but these stuck out to me. and I'm not stalking you yet, you've been incidental to the fact I've been reading the games but you've been a delight to see.

[the worst]

1876- I had a better grasp and was killed n1 to get me out of the game.
1873- I tunneled and mislynched on d1, but then we got our shit together on day 2 and 3 for the town win.

A ha, amusingly I've read both of those while metaing other people.

[the worst]

also: I frankly have very little respect for replacing out for virtually no reason.

Have you ever read the cask of amontillado by Poe?

I haven't - why's that?

[the worst]

This just feels like a scum circle jerk.

Can you tell me what you mean? I think it comes from scum!volxen before scum!Rogers before s/s tbh

[the worst]

Story is basically about these 2 guys. 1 guy insults the other in a way where the insulted guys only response is to wall the 1st guy behind a part of a sewer. The reason its talked about is because they never explain what was said for the insult, they just imply that it was serious enough for the response.

In reference to here, what i am trying to say is that there must be a reason for IV to have wanted to replace out. He obviously didnt want this thread to turn into a toxic mess based off of a past game. Is it AI, no. Can it speak to a possible motivation, yeah, i think so.

ah, I did a fairly heavy meta dive on his tendencies around replacing and conflicting playstyles the other day. I'm not one to townlock virtually ever but replacing is a pretty high drama play. people tend to let a lot about themselves slip around it. since we're allowed to be bastards and discuss replacements on MS.net I do, when I feel it's necessary.

[the worst]

alright caught back up. the sudden walls kind of threw me, heh. I can gladly talk about my four townreads but it'll be a better read if I can do so when in front of a PC.

is there anything more easily summarised which anyone wants to ask me about?

[the worst]

I feel bad for delaying things, but most of the game has been MR talking to people and there has been a kind of absence of original thought so to speak. I'm kinda calibrating myself a little (plus, the replacements and twinnie's busyness have left me a little wanting).

[the worst]

This just feels like a scum circle jerk.

Can you tell me what you mean? I think it comes from scum!volxen before scum!Rogers before s/s tbh

This feels like a cheeky comment scum make to each other in thread, thats all though a feeling.

It smelled more pockety to me - MRo is under fire for largely playstyle related issues imo which definitely makes him an optimal pocketing target.

also just a feeling

[the worst]

How did both you and fish come to the same conclusion and thought process conbcerning IV and did so independently?

do you find this alarming or genuinely intriguing?

[the worst]

VOTE: Volxen

[the worst]

sorry, I feel like you asked me for something in 286 but you might have over-edited the post or something like that?

[the worst]

That post will happen after volxen flips haha but right now it actually feels like a really comfortable gamestate. do you feel uncomfortable about it?

[the worst]

well then it'd be quite rude of me to make a gamestate analysis post wouldn't it?

[the worst]

I'm sorry dude I'm not trying to be a cheeky bugger here but you're not communicating what's concerning you and our minds are obviously in very different places. mind walking me through what you're thinking?

[the worst]

I think I see where you're coming from. from my point of view, my phoneposting and lack of time to talk everyone through the nuances of my townlist is nearly unrelated to where I place my vote.

fmpov volxy's play hasn't been up to scratch. I have the benefit of having very recently seen his town game and he's quite impressive. my only recollection of him off the top of my head is just kinda coasting and skating around subjects, then following me up on explaining my townreads (which I might be wrong but I kinda think I'd already explained I would elaborate on later).

if I'm right on all of my townreads or almost right, there's huge scum equity in preemptively derailing it. I'm also an easy push while I'm busy irl and on "IOU" for explanations.

[the worst]

I also wasn't voting due to Too Many Townreads which is very very irksome x(

[the worst]

not voting that is. not having too many townreads. I love townreads haha

[the worst]

Well if you think my townplay in Newbie 1885 was "quite impressive", then I'm not sure why I'm a scumread for you in this game. I was very aggressive in pushing my scumreads in Newbie 1885 (although I was ultimately wrong in my scumreads in that game), and I was equally aggressive in the case that I made against xx in this game.

so in your opinion I should be townreading you? show me what to look for in your posting here?

[the worst]

as in, derailing the potential for a townblock. if I'm correct and can get townies smooshed together town is in a crazy powerful spot.

this sounds more self serving than intended. hopefully you appreciate what I mean.

[the worst]

I think your entrance was more ballsy than I'd look for from scum.

one major reason I townread xx2008 is how candid they feel. people chime in and tell me if this sounds totally stupid, but they've been pretty upfront and both speedy in responses and comfortable justifying themselves. they started out on the back foot with the messy first few posts but like... that's not the kinda thing I tend to look for as alignment indicative behaviour. it's just entertaining to hone in on to force people to generate content.

so like your push on xx2008 was the first cut into spilling content into the game thread. volxen's push was very late, and was basically chomping down on 'lynchbait' (players who are more lynchable due to like playstyle/personality quirks).

[the worst]

on the subject: @volxen, have a read of your own posts on Hugo. can you see how they might give the reader the impression that you already know he's town?

pedit: yes~!

[the worst]

see it struck me as a very easy attack to make--and quite a valuable one if I'm on the money, or thereabouts.

[the worst]

that's pretty reachy. the fact you don't feel towny and you have a good towngame complements my read on you; it doesn't form my read on you.

pedit: on the money = correct

[the worst]

oh volxen is a very new friend, but he has indeed seen my scumgame pretty recently. I think there's quite a lot of differences but some people really struggle with reading me.

Dray keeps rolling scum against me.... a habit I hope he corrects soon! so uncool

[the worst]

322 is definitely a rehash of my recent posting but I DIG IT

[the worst]

any reason why you're still defending volxy?

[the worst]

I kinda felt like we were subconsciously on the same page. that's why your vote on me is so jarring (and also why I said I liked your post. )

[the worst]

@MR, please explain how in your current frame of mind wrt volxen's interactions with your slot and general play you're still townreading him?

I also think you need to explain why you scumread me because I'm pretty sure we just independently realised volxen feels like he's trying to pocket you. honestly our read on his slot is so eerily similar I'm really not sure why you still want my lynch and will fight tooth and nail to protect volxen.

pedit: actually can you throw me a briefly annotated read list rn?

[the worst]

briefly annotated

just things that strike you as important about the player off the top of your head

note if you think they're more likely town/null/scum if you don't mind

[the worst]

Hhhhmmmm sorry for assigning homework. could you throw me some quotes from Former's entrance which pinged you?

I'm sorry if this is like putting words in your mouth but I kinda wonder if you're seeing a world where there's very likely 1 scum in {volxen, tw} and you're on the fence about where to actually position yourself on the dichotomy? would you agree?

[the worst]

yeah best to call it a day -- if you want to talk about your scumread on fish I'm all ears (though if it's more of a tw/former paranoia teamread, I can understand why that offer might not appeal. )

pedit: I'll reply to that a bit later sorry

[the worst]

NK15 that was a hammer. the vote count is like 10 posts above.

powerlynch this d2 please

[the worst]

hold on MR unvoted nvm I can safely take NK15 attempting to mislynch me as a compliment to my towngame lol.

I'll be back around tomorrow. I've ended up actually explaining quite a lot of my reads, I can try and case them a bit more if people want but I think it's going to be more beneficial to talk about more current things?

NK15 do you have any game relevant thoughts?

[the worst]

I can try and case them a bit more if people want

to extrapolate--if people feel I haven't adequately explained any particular thing please lemme know what. and particularly if you disagree with it, explain why if that's alright.

[the worst]

@volxen I've read 339 a couple of times and I don't know what you're looking for from me, and I'm sorry if that's disappointing. any one slot has a >rand chance of being town. I tend to be a stronger townhunter than scumhunter. I tend to be pretty candid about my reads when I have them.

if you want me to flesh out any reads or strongly disagree with any please holler but I've ended up posting about my stances on slots in a more intuitive way to my own playstyle than a long carefully written case... I think a lot of my thoughts are already in my posts. but if you are still wanting in a particular area, let me know what area.

I kinda feel there's little value in me inanely towncasing weak townreads of mine several pages later so those reads can be nitpicked, when more interesting stuff is going on, you know?

[the worst]

for an update and context to stated townreads, I'm about here now.

conftown: {tw}
very town: {former}
still pretty town: {Mister Rogers, Inferno390}
leaning town: {Hugo, xx2008}
null: {Draynth, NK15}
leaning scum: {volxen}

also since we're in 2v7 either 6 correct townreads, or two correct scumreads, or a combination of those is enough to solve the game.

I understand the notion that it's easy for scum to town case players and challenging for scum to scumcase players. that's a big part of why my motivation in preemptive towncasing is so low:
1) it always comes across as reachy, and
2) if I'm incorrect on any townreads I'm basically handing them a guide on how to remain townread by me

realistically if both scum are in my null/scumreads, this game is quickly solved via PoE to me. if I start to townread the people in those lower brackets, then I've made an error in my townreads and need to reassess whether I've been too lazy or given too much credit to someone.

[the worst]

feels kinda weird using so much mafia theory to explain my position in this game, but I think it's a double whammy. it's probably beneficial from a teaching point of view to try and explain my actual theoretical approach to the game, but I also think a lot of the reasons I'm under fire right now are playstyle related.

[the worst]

can you show me what you mean about your Hugo/xx2008/volxen read there? you're also aware that 2 of those players are currently on my wagon and we're before you joined it. how does that influence your read on me/them?

correct re asking me to towncase based on weak reads on ~page 7. not particularly game related and a very easy way for you to enter the thread without giving any nuanced thoughts of your own. I think you have the experience to know this haha.

are you asking me to go back and tl;dr why I got slight town pings from inferno, rogers and hugo?

[the worst]

Inferno is my strongest early read of the four. he has a meta of getting into TvT fights pretty quickly (please refer his sig) and his reaction to Rogers' posting style is very consistent with that meta. I can completely see why it was tilting to town!ferno and understood where he was coming from with his fighting back.

Rogers, I liked the early content and forcing discussion. some of his pushes kinda felt like tries rather than full on genuine reads which was initially pinging me but by the time I originally caught up I was already reading this as playstyle indicative/anti-RVS rather than necessarily scummy.

Hugo I just liked his early posting, didn't have any kind of careful tone etc. I'd look for from scum!Hugo. it's my weakest read of the 4 very obviously.

there you go you've got the tl;dr of what I was feeling several pages ago. I hope that was interesting reading. now please answer my questions and actually scumhunt.

I'd rather not be too candid about my feelings after our last game together, but if you are town please let's not have a rehash of that nonsense.

[the worst]

I mean we're 4/12 days into a phase. the only read related things you've said are that you don't like me ducking elaborating on boring reads for a "whole day" phase, a wall of theory about intent to hammer etc. and a really vague take on 3 slots.

so would you mind starting by answering my question?

[the worst]

I'm actually having trouble getting to sleep being at l-1, lol.

and sorry. just realised we're 2/10 days into the phase not 4/12.

pedit: OH GOOD I can sleep now. one sec.

[the worst]

can you show me what you mean about your Hugo/xx2008/volxen read there? you're also aware that 2 of those players are currently on my wagon and we're before you joined it. how does that influence your read on me/them?

these questions in particular. which interactions made you feel there's possible scum in these 3 players, in particular? does the fact 2 of your maybe scum reads are voting your main scum read ping you at all?

Are you scum reading me or just pinged that I didn't go into more detail on my gut reaction townreads btw?

also let's go the other way--whos town?

[the worst]

@volxen, I've already spent plenty of time explaining my xx2008 read through my ISO. if you don't understand why I'm townreading Formerfish via real time interactions I can explain it later but I'd like to say this will NOT HAPPEN until I'm in front of a PC. I can't guarantee how long this will be because I'm fairly busy irl at the moment.

I hope if you're town you can see that your posting makes me think of panicking scum before worried town rn? I have reads. I hope my reads are right. My reads are liable to be subject to change. Sometimes I read people in a very specific way to evoke a particular kind of reaction out of them, based on playstyle.

so like... what part of my reads are you trying to convince me is jank? which reads of mine do you disagree with & why? do you think there's flawed logic in the reason I townread any particular slots?

what are your thoughts on NK15 so far?

[the worst]

This looks like a meta read for me, which is bad because there is no meta. Without meta, how do you know that that comfortable posting style is not just their normal style? And speedy responses are not a good reason to townread, especially not if they look strange. And without that, all what you have is...
post 181.
Now, let's assume xx is town, and made those openings.
They look like a low-hanging fruit for mafia then. Which points then at one of their first two accusers being scum. Thus it is very likely that there is at least a scum in those three.
On the same page, obviously, nothing of that prevents you being scum voted by the first two accusers, with xx being your partner. And a bus is always possible.

that's definitely not a meta read. I just like the energy xx2008 has been putting out. I think it swings towards a relaxed mindset, which is more likely at random to come from town than scum. would you mind showing me where you got the idea that this was a meta read from?

correct, I think they're low hanging fruit and the fact my main scumread entered the thread by jumping up and biting them is absolutely the way I interpret this gamestate.

so you think they're mafia rather than LHF? can you please show me where you think their posting comes from scum / doesn't come from town?

Excluding me...
Error 404.

you have no townreads?

[the worst]

it's kinda vexing me because statistically at least one townie here thinks I'm scummy. but I have enough of an ego to think that at least one scumbutt is pushing me as well. if I had to pick one person who's treatment of my slot has been the least natural (most likely to come from scum) it'd be NK15's.

the flip side of this is the last time we played together he faked a guilty on an unclaimed, but obviously town, mason. so he's not a player I can read to save myself, I always come out at a net scumread.

[the worst]

guess somewhere in the pacific

[the worst]

@Hugo what do you feel I'm holding back here? sometimes if stuff is tricky to express I'll wait til I'm behind a keyboard, otherwise I think I've been a thousand times more forthcoming in this game.

[the worst]

same @MR. if you all don't feel my play is up to scratch engage with me about what you guys want?

[the worst]

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=77049

Here is the scumgame we just finished.
my lie there was pretty involved. I already knew RCE was the doctor save n1 (which townclears him) since I was scum. it was also pretty obvious from the flipped doc's ISO that RCE was the save. I pretended that I found an unexpected clue in his ISO that someone else was the save, to make it look as though I was town trying to steer the night kill away from conftown!RCE.

outside of gambit plays like that the only reason I ever withhold information as either alignment is if I think it will make other players react in a telling way. anyone feel free to meta dive me, just a reminder that meta diving tends to reveal "playstyle indicative" information far more often than "alignment indicative" information.

I can throw you the info I gleaned from metadiving Innocentvillager's repout style if you'd like (again, not happening while I'm phoneposting and I'd need like ~48 hours to get on MS on a PC and prepare everything).

[the worst]

xx2008 I've already explained.
Formerfish I think I've also gone into but to summarise:
- innocentvillager replaces out a lot and it's >rand scum indicative but the WAY he replaced out is consistent with his reactions to conflicting playstyles as town
- Formerfish's catch-up was really good. He picked up on some pretty nuanced things which is really difficult to fake as scum. He pushed good angles and asked good questions.
- some of his reads / takes mirrored my feelings around the same point in the game (e.g. immediate reaction to MR's hyperposting style, read on volxen, etc.)

I didn't elaborate further on these two because I'm pretty sure I've already explained the reads...

[the worst]

Code: Select all

[uv][/uv]

^ easiest way to unvote.

[the worst]

- Formerfish's catch-up was really good. He picked up on some pretty nuanced things which is really difficult to fake as scum. He pushed good angles and asked good questions.

I am having SERIOUS problems believing this one. I'd REALLY like to see the specifics on this one. Like give us how this is a townie entrance from him, AT ALL?

sure, still phoneposting but the crux of what I jammed with:

5% town 95% NAI popin with the correction of my sub-par meta and cognisance that your posting style rubs him the wrong way. the fact he put you as high sorting priority (cased what was concerning him, talked to you in real time, and read you for himself) is towny as fuck. the read convo and fluidity of his thought process didn't strike me as orchestrated if that makes sense--I actually think once he got into real time and spoke with you he was like "ah yeah MR is town"

his immediate reaction to your posting come p1/p2 was the same as mine. your early d1 is pretty bad as far as sounding towny, your earlier posts and questions are super super reachy and unnecessary but from a gamestate POV actually got the ball rolling on discussion in a huge way. I think that's pretty beneficial in an holistic sense but wrt sorting Formerfish his instant frustration at your early posting is really good.

THEN as alluded to earlier he cases what's vexing him, catches up and engages with you in real time. I liked your interactions for t/t because I think predominantly playstyle and readstyle was causing friction. this is kinda similar to how I read Inferno (the fact he was unnecessarily tunneled on you in what felt like an obvious t/t to me suggests he doesn't really give a fuck about how he's perceived--he thinks he's gottem. but that's Inferno and is a tangent to why I like Fishy).

Like he's repped in with a pretty hefty case then reassed it felt insanely smooth. that kinda stuff in real time is very very difficult to fake as scum.

his pickup on the uncomfortable correspondence between you and volxen was really intuitive as well, and didn't feel like he was scum projecting a s/s between two townies. like volxen's post reeks of pocketing, you're aware of it I spotted it and so did Fish. the s/s reaction was pretty much fine and him reassessing it to reach a scum!volxen/town!MR was ok

[the worst]

Volx you are in my townblock this game, period.

.....why?
He just scumsplained a townread on you (overexplained using nothing remotely nuanced or alignment indicative.....)

It definitely feels like he's working to a predetermined conclusion..... Do you get the feeling his train of thought has been natural?

[the worst]

There is no excuse for a player of this quality to be using all his talents to simply not play. We do not give him permission to scum skate!

sorry but this is more insulting than anything else.. what do you mean? I've been playing my hardest and devoting more energy to this game than anything else.

what about me makes you think I'm not playing?.... and why do you think I'm a player of a high calibre if you go on to insult my play?

I'm so confused

[the worst]

Do you get the feeling his train of thought has been natural?

Yes.

continue?
when you look at his towncase on you do you think "ah yes that's someone who doesn't know my alignment and believes this"? I'm absolutely in awe of how blatantly volxen is pocketing you here.

[the worst]

I think you do need a nap... I'm an experienced player but not strong. I don't know what failposting is meant to be and like (this is something I try and avoid saying but whatever) I actually think I'm outside of my scumrange. :S

Why won't you engage with me about volxen? You've shown cognisance of his posting around your slot being manipulative, what caused you to shut that read down? It's really uncomfortable that you're randomly digging in your heels here.

[the worst]

I'm asking you to elaborate on your read. I don't really care if you put a period or a 10 exclamation marks. fmpov you're blatantly scumsiding but I think there's a high enough chance that you're town, that I want to talk to you about it rather than just powerlynching you after volxen flips red.

[the worst]

I'm so glad someone actually stared into the ducky's beady black eyes lol. I alert people to that every now and then and they shit themselves.

But that was a meme post, please answer my questions

[the worst]

You went from me talking about my strongest read to asking about my weakest read.

The dude is the most lynchable player on the planet as both alignments. I've literally pushed mislynch wagons against him as town in two games in a row because he adamantly refuses to read gamestates, and pushes extremely two dimensional reasons to scumread people. He's also regularly too focused on "armchair scumhunting" (theoretical scumhunting) rather than actually playing the game..... as town.

the last time we played together he made a fake cop claim which did not suit the theme of the game in ANY way, and while fakeclaiming also faked a mafia result on a literal town mason. He also scumsided for most of the game by refusing to read people and instead focusing on mechanical rules (which he then broke anyway).

in a vacuum I'd call him scummy as hell. given my knowledge of his playstyle and experience with him there's nowhere near enough content to sort him yet.


(this is pretty critical but @NK15 please take it as the most honest feedback I can give on how I perceive your towngame. I was pretty blunt in the dead thread of the game in question.)



pedit: lovely, that's all I ask for. C:
we have long phases, nothing wrong with taking your time and calibrating.

[the worst]

Yo Hugo how do you feel about volxen/MR?

[the worst]

@Hugo heh yeah, people throwing "100%" or "always x" without a lot of substantiation throws me a little as well. given everything. In MR's ISO comes across as overconfident I haven't put too much stock in that kind of tonality being scum indicative, but I'm actually starting to scratch my head about my read on him in general.

I think there's ~1 scum in {MR, volxen}. if they're actually the scumteam and Former correctly called out their earlygame theatre I'll laugh... but I'm not feeling it. Occam's razor is telling me that volxen is pocketing MR, and MR is getting cocky with his widely townread status and starting to push conclusions rather than reads.

But the more he's posting at the moment, the more I'm starting to wonder if volxen misread MR, and MR is relying on the {tw, volxen} dichotomy to produce 1-2 mislynches.

it's a kinda funny gamestate but I don't mind laying down my paranoid thoughts while I wait for MR to explain his take on volxen haha.

[the worst]

I'd be curious to see what you think about volxen's posts in particular Hugo. I'm starting to get this niggling thought in the back of my mind and I'm still thinking you're more likely town and I'm intrigued to see what another townie thinks of him right now.

also. One more point on MR is I'm kinda starting to wonder whether he's just positioning me and gaslighting my play here. I actually think this is on the relatively strong side of my d1 town performance so far, and his comments around my perceived skill level and play didn't seem to reflect what I felt like he's actually thinking..

[the worst]

That's totally projection though because that's the kinda cheeky stuff I pull as scum.

[the worst]

there's like 0 doubt scum in {volxen, MR}. I'm really exhausted by being misrepped and both of them keep talking in circles about how scummy I am and how my play doesn't come from town but neither of them are willing to engage with me. MR promises some case with quotes and shit but literally all I'm seeing his inane hyperbole.

NK15 has never shown me evidence he knows how to play mafia in his entire career so like, he is fantastic cop bait or if we don't have a cop should probably be lynched on a policy basis.


I'm pretty comfortable sawing volxen => MR right now then assessing the damage, but I'm starting to think flipping MR d1 and finding out whether everything he's saying is made up or whether he actually thinks he's onto something probably breaks the game open.

MR has plunged south in my reads because the stuff he's pulling right now is not game solving. it is casing a lynch on me, completely at he expense of common sense or actually reading the game.

Bro if you're town here please stick around for post-game...
VOTE: Mister Rogers

[the worst]

Hugez do you like volxy's case on me atm? even if not enough to vote can you see town!him coming to those conclusions?

[the worst]

It is ya his content is largely okayish but in interacting with him directly there is no nuance, no intent to budge on his reads and nothing feels genuine

[the worst]

if it helps you read me, I'd partially resolved myself to vote him before I went to sleep last night unless I saw something town indicative in his volxen read.

[the worst]

Ferno ferno ferno do you like volxen's push on me?

[the worst]

sorry MR I'm not gonna read your wiki. it feels totally unjustified reading you by your own metric, and when I tried to read your past games I got a headache.

if there's something potently town indicative I should be looking for from you please give me a clue. I'm watching the agenda you're pushing and the way you're pushing it and I think if you're capable enough of prodding and pushing and asking this many questions, you're capable of showing an ounce of nuance and fluidity in your reads.

also forewarning: if your towntell is going to be "I tunnel as town!! 11!!1!1", I ask that you try again. that's antitown behaviour for one, and extremely easy to fake as scum for another. if you can show me how this particular tunnel is town indicative for you, we can jam.

[the worst]

big day at work today then doing piano stuff and catching up with the fam tonight. I'm not gonna phonepost my towncase on Formerfish until I (HOPEFULLY) can get back to a PC where I might have saved it, or if not just get to a PC in general. IV has been in like 30 games and I checked them all, it was something like

stayed in as town ~20ish
rep'd out as town ~3
stayed in as scum ~4
rep'd out as scum ~3
but I want to get the posts I was looking at. I'm #badatmeta but I think it's a pretty transparent tell.

it's exciting and worth the wait I pinkie promise. Watch this space!!

[the worst]

"playing better" =/= being town
I actually think you're softing scum here :/

[the worst]

you're not showing me why you're town, you just seem to think I should be lynched because I'm an inferior player.

[the worst]

I'm literally throwing back what you're saying post by post... what the hell is going on?

[the worst]

xx2008, what's your take on both volxen and MR at the moment? (and probably me by extension )

any chance you could throw me a quick rough reads list?

[the worst]

@The Worst, I'm more than willing to engage with you and have a back-and-forth conversation. But first I need to know the answer to this question: are you even open to the possibility of town!Volxen, or are you completely convinced in your mind beyond all doubt that I am scum? Because if it's the latter, then I don't even see how we can meaningfully engage with each other, as you will just continue to respond to all of my posts saying "there goes Volxen scumsplaining again".

actually starting to think you're less likely to be scum than I initially thought--your later casing CAN come from town and I'm starting to like the effort you're going to in engaging with me about the way I'm approaching this game. The rhetoric I didn't like around your case earlier was the "I don't know what to expect from your towngame but THIS ISN'T IT *vote*" vibe which didn't feel like you were actually trying to read my slot. at this point I think scum!volxen is more likely to have gotten exhausted from talking back and forth with me and I can actually kinda see where your thought process is coming from.

so yeah I'm open to town!volxen, just starting to swing that way just a little.

[the worst]

.

just finished reading this post and yeah I think we're TvTing

I'll hit you up post-game on discord or something if you're town as well, I think some playstyle jamming could be really interesting.

[the worst]

Heck I guess we will find scum somewhere in [Volx, Worst, Former] (in no particular order). I mean the game is jammed around these 3 people it seems like. :shrug:

I think a daytime cleansing and a night generation would be good for us?

I will simply not lynch Volx today period end of story. Unless something else happens in this thread, I am locked in here.

I really strongly dislike this.

he's just said "we've probably got scum in the top 3 posters besides myself lol leggo" then outlined he flatly refuses to lynch one of them today.

this is just MR trying to backpedal on his awful read of me, yet still position the gamestate around lynching me.

anyone got a different take on this? I'm concerned I'm becoming tunnelled but this is really pretty poor form.

[the worst]

Ok my apologies to the thread. I just got done with this post in my notes. Here clearly TW has done what is requested. It is a simple fact. I know TW has the natural ability to force me to doubt my t/r's (specifically Volx here)

and after my re-read of Volx this morning, I am locked in on him being town

(i.e. I will not change today for any reason). I strayed away from discussion of this with TW which is my fault.

Ok, I don't think there is any more danger of a skating TW anymore.

I believe we have identified at least two scum suspects in Volx, NK15

. I am proposing a

compromise lynch

here on NK15. Multiple people have made the case as can I, all with our own personal nuances.

Heck I guess we will find scum somewhere in [Volx, Worst, Former] (in no particular order)

. I mean the game is jammed around these 3 people it seems like. :shrug:

I think a daytime cleansing and a night generation would be good for us?

I will simply not lynch Volx today period end of story. Unless something else happens in this thread, I am locked in here.

How does this progression(bold emphasis added) make any fucking sense?
VOTE: Mister Rogers

OH MY GOD
+5 town points to NK15, I didn't expect us to hivemind that hard on this.

tbh I was gonna point out lynching you today is a bad "policy lynch" and has nothing to do with winning town the game. no one has made an effort to actually sort you yet, which is definitely difficult because you haven't been in the game yet but like

lynching you would literally do nothing except remove your slot from the game.

no info to be gleaned in the event you flip town, and it's literally nothing more than a 25% shot in the dark fmpov

but yeah also you can move up in my reads just a little

[the worst]

I townread Volx, Hugo (townblock) as well as XX, Inf (minimal town reads) which created a PoE list of [Worst, Former, Dray, NK15 (just ur slot tho)]. I started watching Worst for his gamestate post to determine if I could townread him or at least have some way of not believing that he could be scum enough for lynch today; he is a high importance slot due to vet status. Just as I did this, literally in real-time both FF and Worst chain voted Volx. So I voted Worst and it was a Mexican Standoff and we started talking and such about this.

I'd put Hugo at my second strongest townread off the top of my head, yet I'm very far from using the language "townblock". what is convincing you that there's absolutely no world where either Volxen or Hugo are scum without a cop clear? Hugo's posting in particular is not difficult for scum to fake. I'm genuinely really interested in your reasoning here.

[the worst]

Well

this is a good post. it sums up where I'm getting to but doesn't feel too regurgitated. (sorry for the nigh useless post I wanna find this when I ctrl+f in my iso later)

[the worst]

my bad for the multiposting guys, that was a lit couple of pages whooo

in my experience:
1) pushing reads with very little reasoning under a weak guise (e.g. not being totally caught up) is a scum motivated behaviour.
2) refusing to engage with reads which you aren't absolutely certain on (you should very rarely be absolutely certain on reads as town) is a scum motivated behaviour; it positions slots to be shaded and does not support actual sorting of players.
3) "compromise lynches" are scum motivated. creating a dichotomy of 3 players which you believe contains 1+ scum and then compromising outside of that dichotomy is never town motivated.

MR has flatly refused to engage with me in a manner which allows me to be sorted. he's only engaged with me on very low interest subjects and has basically backed down on anything substantial (his casing on me is nonsensical tunneling. His lock town read on volxen is clearly either fabricated or overblown and his refusal to elaborate on it swings me back to the former.

his posting and the angles he's pushing are accomplishing nothing except trying to force a square peg gamestate into the round hole of his reads.

I'm not the type of player to jump in here and scream "ay everyone sheep me for an easy win" because that's not something I can consistently deliver. But here's how I'm seeing things, and I welcome anyone to swing in and talk to me about it.

we are not lynching a strong stable voice today {Formerfish}
we are not lynching high town equity slots today {Inferno, Hugo}
we are not compromise lynching today {NK15, Draynth}

if this leave as dichotomy of {me, MR, xx2008, volxen} for today, my take is very easy.

[the worst]

I'm not the type of player to jump in here and scream "ay everyone sheep me for an easy win" because that's not something I can consistently deliver. But here's how I'm seeing things, and I welcome anyone to swing in and talk to me about it.

if I'm wrong I'm begging you to show me that I'm wrong. all you're doing is resuming a comical, highly rhetorical tunnel which is what I was just describing as a scum motivated behaviour.

so yeah it feels like you're caught and flailing. if I'm wrong show me I'm wrong.

I'm so totally comfortable if you want to resume this mindless 1v1 because I don't feel that you're handling me the way town handles slots. even if I'm designated today's lynch, I trust this list to powerlynch you tomorrow and your buddy d3 so... If that's your angle, bring it. :/

[the worst]

Vote Worst

also this isn't a valid vote-- remember the colon after vote, or use VOTE: tags.

[the worst]

There is NO WAY I am lynching XX or Volx today and any list that has those options in it is from scum. Not to mention that he was unwilling to compromise with a vote that we all know is scummy, NK15.

so moments ago you admitted you felt the same way that I did; that NK15 is a difficult read in that he reads scummy even as town.

your language wrt "compromise lynch" etc. did not suggest to me that you're actually scumreading this slot, just that the game is more solvable with NK15 removed (which isn't totally untrue, but it's also true for any slot).

NK15's posting here is just a tiny tiny bit town indicative for him, imo. so I'm gonna propose two questions to you:

d1 : lynch NK15. NK15 flips town.
n1 : an obvious townie dies
d2 : how is the gamestate improved?

d1 : lynch NK15. NK15 flips scum.
n1 : an obvious townie dies
d2 : who is the partner?

now situation 2 is obviously nigh impossible..... which brings me back to my point before. unless someone is genuinely unreadable, there is no value in a "policy lynch" (lynching them to improve town's chance of winning irrespective of their alignment) compared with lynching to hit scum.

if you think he's likely to be scum or can answer either of these questions with some confidence, I'd be happy to reconsider my boycott of a policy lynch. (just reconsider, mind)

[the worst]

btw those two situations are basically assuming we blindly shoot in the dark when policy lynching. I actually think that's not totally true anyway, cause NK15 is just a liiiiiiittle towny.

[the worst]

they always get a chance to use powers lol. I'd prefer to promote good dayplay than insist on following power roles (which may be shit, may be excellent, and may just play badly). relying on night actions is an awful way for town to win any balanced setup and every iteration of this setup is like, loosely balanced.

your first pedit isn't really related to lynching scum d1. can you please review my commentary on achieving a good policy lynch and see if you're pickin' up what I'm puttin' down?

[the worst]

I came back with my read on the gamestate and suggestion of where we should be looking for a lynch. I also outlined my reasons as to why. If you think I'm openwolfing, throw me reasons why and talk through this stuff. I'm not going to accept that you think I'm openwolfing (t/n; really obviously siding with scum ITT) when you won't have a conversation about why you think my lynch suggestions are flawed.

ftr, I very obviously don't suggest lynching xx2008 or volxen either today I don't think. just a profile for the type of flip which I think we need to progress the game.

NK15 is actually not being scummy. particularly within the scope of NK15 play, he's feeling like town. you're taking exception to his posting style which I can relate to (I've pushed for his mislynch two games in a row prior to this game, and I think I have a slight idea of how to avoid doing it again right away).

could he be scum? yeah
does he have high scum equity? no
ergo if he flips town are we in a good place? => we have as much info as d1 excepting night actions
even if he flips scum are we in a good place? => sure, but I have absolutely no idea where to start looking for his partner


if you totally disagree with this please, once again, have a look at my commentary around how decent policy lynches work and engage with me.

[the worst]

like if he was posting gifs of bananas every 12 hours to prod-dodge, any townie has a blind 25% chance of hitting scum by lynching him simply because he's not their own slot (allowing for the fact they themselves are town, 2/8 of other players are).
he has been posting. he's not been scummy and for NK15 standards I actually think he's got a bit of town equity.

[the worst]

this is the most blatant flailing I've seen in my mafia career. I'm going to let others check in, because you are no longer reading my posts and are resorting to flinging mud and hoping some of it will stick.

if you'd like to have a straightforward, calm, mature conversation let me know and i'll rephrase my stance so that you can lay down what you're seeing.

[the worst]

correct but he is not obvscum or I would be handling him very differently

he's lynchbait (lynchable but hasn't produced a lot of strong alignment-indicative content).
the AI content he's provided also pings me as towny

i'm not seeing what you're seeing here. if you disagree and think he actually has scum equity, please please please talk to me about what you're seeing in his posting which is scum indicative.
if you think he makes a good policy lynch, please convince me on why he's a good policy lynch.

[the worst]

thanks Former. agreed, I'm gonna focus on other threads etc. for a bit.

[the worst]

I think hearing more from Fishy, Hugo and xx2008 would be beneficial for me atm. gonna keep a little quiet because I think I've flooded a little too much.

any takes Dray is having would be sweet too.

[the worst]

VOTE: Volxen

i don't like this sheep vote on Fish

talk me thru this - what about it don't you like? (I'll let you catch up if you want to see some of the thoughts I was having about volxen)

[the worst]

that's a pretty interesting read tbh

and, understandable re waiting for tonight. after our history I'd actually be a tiny bit suspicious if you did give me an easy ride. I genuinely really really liked Formerfish's entrance and case on volxen tho tbh it mirrored a lot of what was going through my brain.

interested to see FF's current take tho

[the worst]

my suggestion was that we lynch to hit scum and avoid high town equity slots. I suggested if we policy lynch, it must be a lynch which advances the gamestate.

you've given me nothing to think that lynching NK15 is anything but a policy lynch, and that lynch doesn't advance the gamestate.

[the worst]

> quotes something said 100 posts ago
> ignores everything that's happened since
> pretends it's still relevant

look I'm gonna go back to focusing on other stuff. we've both said our bit. other people need to check in.

[the worst]

when I was at L-1 two of the votes were rvs. lol.

[the worst]

I'm bored of you posting NAI garbage while insulting me as a player. it reminds me of a certain someone who encourages those who don't like his playstyle to replace out.

I'm going to leave some stuff for post-game because I need to see your flip to continue this conversation.

[the worst]

LOL but I keep seeing the signs of them being on a Q/T together its like so annoying. I can quote several different examples. >.<

Please do.

oops I was gonna say this and forgot
seconded hardcore

[the worst]

Could you throw some quotes tho? I'm not shading, I want to insert my eyes behind your eyeholes and discern what caused you to think that way.

[the worst]

Why am I town?

towny

gamestate feels like you're town who feels on the outer because of the amount of nonsense going on imo

could easily be wrong here tho

[the worst]

@Draynth,

sorry, saying "townie" was a meme that town is like probably 2% more likely to ask that question than scum hahaha

this game has been hard to parse for me too, and I've contributed like 100+ posts. I can kinda feel where your head's at a little. what's your feel on MR Formerfish and NK15 rn?

[the worst]

throw me quotes from me and FF and explain what about them bugged you?

[the worst]

Are you asking me (I KNOW THE ANSWER!!!) or Worst?

obviously yes

[the worst]

alright
challenge
remove the tinfoil

treat FF and I like we have a combined iq of like 100+ right

why would we as partners ham it up this much? like do you see scum motivation here or are you just like "!!!!!! omgawdddd" and if the latter, who do you think is actually the scum either 1) between us, or 2) outside of us?

[the worst]

fun fact. everyone notices two players pushing thensame thing.

that would be the least cheeky s/s action ever. shockingly, I have played scum before. and been caught with dumb crap like that. Formerfish is probably in the same boat.

so.... if you could please think through it and respond to the questions I threw back I'd appreciate it....


pedit: treating 638 as a shitpost. gonna keep trying here.

[the worst]

like see things fmpov here man please

you're caught scum here, it's at the point where your buddy is probably just gonna bus you to save themselves

you react by blandly deathtunnelling the two most experienced players in the thread. all I'm seeing from your posts is an endless wall of "conclusions" with no thought process behind them.

I really can't find a way to tell if
1) they have any basis in fact / are good quality potentially correct reads
2) they come from a town game solving mindset in the first place

it feels like you're kinda half reading things then just.... making a lot of noise. there's a disconnect between what I'm seeing in the thread and the solutions you're coming to. that tells me that either you're scum, or wired crazy different

can you ELI5? just give me a really slow showing of how Mister Rogers sees the world

I've done some homework and realised you've been mislynched before for SOME of the same stuff I'm seeing here. like I can tinfoil a world where you're town and we're going down the same rabbit hole of disliking your playstyle here, but given how hard you've pushed but how difficult you've made it to relate to you it just feels low equity. I'm getting 60% of the way to understanding how your brain ticks and where the difference between your towngame and your scumgame is, and then you're putting up walls.

[the worst]

scum hunt

I think you're confusing scum hunt with WHACKING PEOPLE UNTIL THEY DIE.

scum hunting is discerning what scum are doing. assuming you're town. put yourself into their slots and think "would I do this as scum? would they do this as scum? is this a scum motivated thing to do?"

sure, anyone in any game ever COULD be scum. sometimes scum are simply two or three levels ahead and town can't catch up and scum win. that's just part of the way the game roles.

so set aside the "is it remotely possible for this to be scum?" because that makes you susceptible to paranoia and insanely bad at actually catching scum. focus instead on something more realistic. "is this likely to come from town before scum? is this player capable of this as scum?"

"self meta" is widely regarded as tacky but I'm pretty comfortable using it here. it is very much outside of my scumrange to engage with you the way I've engaged with you in the last ~48 hours. I dislike playing scum, and if I were scum here and you weren't my partner I would be totally happy sitting back and watching you dig your own grave.

I just can't shake this niggling feeling in the back if my head that we MIGHT be making a mistake. like there's potentially a world where you're town being mislynched for being overconfident with a strange concept of how to play town. the way you have been years ago.

[the worst]

Funnily enough I was about to make a similar point about MR's though process on NK15

He only starts talking about him being scummy after you (the worst) mention some stuff on NK15.

From what I can see he hasn't given any actual reasons for NK15 being "the best lynch for today" or cited

any

specific points from other people.
If I'm wrong with that conclusion

please

quote some of MR's posts that say otherwise.

His read progression on the slot is hella strange

you're totally right on that read. there is more emphasis on projecting confidence than on like... explaining thought process.

this is just consistent with MR's personality though. it's wolfy but I'm not quite convinced it comes from scum MR. it's just.... messy, it doesn't feel thought through in the way I'd expect someone who pays too much attention to the thread to think through it as scum.

townreading MR's approach as undercomplicated is kind of roundabout tinfoily too though. mislynches just stink so I guess this is a final olive branch in case I'm wrong and he is town.

ヽ(｀⌒´)ノ
good god my fingers hurt.
are we finally town together twinnie?

[the worst]

Volx - town, his calling out of your slot did not come from scum. He is genuinely scum hunting and he has been attacked for it.

I agree once he opened his brain a bit to us he came off as super towny. on the flip flop, can you see why it was pingy that you guys gave each other a pretty easy ride reads/interaction wise? can you see why his charging into the thread and driving a wedge between our slots is pingy? do you agree that from a town POV it's not unreasonable for someone to say that he was quick to call you town and me scum and that his initial read was uncomfortably reminiscent of your own?

Inf - My biggest fan. He is such a massive fan, I cannot believe he can be scum and perform in the manner he has.

this is a shitpost. please give me your read on inferno with supporting quotes.

XX - His push on my slot did NOT come from scum. I think he is a face-value player too.

could you throw me a couple of quotes from xx2008 and talk me through what about them made you reach this conclusion?



you've also just randomly dropped Draynth from your PoE and assume a scumteam of me/NK15 doesn't exist? could you grab me some quotes which support either ot these reads as well? (Ngl if I was spectating this game I would think NK15 was my slot's only viable scumbuddy )

you might be in my life at an awkward time lol. I was talking to a friend of mine earlier who is good at scum, and I noticed as scum her reads often just 'float down from a great height' where as town you can pretty clearly draw a line which shows the trajectory of her train of thought. it's the trajectory I'm looking for from you, and restating your reads unfortunately doesn't help me discern whether or not they are real.

[the worst]

I'm not actively giving him town points because we're friends, I'm saying I'm aware that I probably have a cognitive bias that affects my decision making.

#relatable

[the worst]

I've hit the point of drunkenness where every post is like "oh look at the pretty words".

UNVOTE:
reassessing tomorrow!

[the worst]

love feeling BoP'd
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... roficiency
ヽ(｀⌒´)ノ

@MR for a player who seems to get into a lot of fights over playstyle, you sure are quick to shade me for what is ultimately a playstyle issue (town hunting before scumhunting).

[the worst]

OH yeah that's fine. I don't tend to do an IC confessional, that was just me saying I want to talk about some things and give a bit of feedback post-game..Apologues if that was misinterpreted at all.

[the worst]

@Hugo, have a quick flick through this article overnight if you'd like:
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... e_At_Mafia

I think a massive part of MS site culture is being able to manipulate how you project confidence, along with the way you process information and try to determine who is pushing a specific ~agenda~ and who isn't

and even then, is the agenda good (e.g. a tpr trying not to get lynched or NK'd) or is it malicious (scum trying to position mislynches), etc., etc.

mafia is a gigantic logic puzzle and the 7-14/2 day phases in particular make it a fairly complex one.

do you feel like you have a different playstyle or way of solving you wanna explore? there's really no right or wrong way to go about it. and you're dead right, some people are better suited to some sites' cultures, and some site cultures are better suited to some players.

what's your homesite btw?

[the worst]

love feeling BoP'd
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... roficiency
ヽ(｀⌒´)ノ

@MR for a player who seems to get into a lot of fights over playstyle, you sure are quick to shade me for what is ultimately a playstyle issue (town hunting before scumhunting).

Posting only townreads is extra scummy. :shrug:

so if I had to sum up how I solve as town:
1. if I look for scum directly I end up tunnelled. scum are also trying to look like town which means I'm liable to tunnel town.
2. town are here to show that they're town and find scum; it's much easier to correctly townread someone than correctly scumread them.

ergo my strength is in discerning who I think is TOWN first and foremost, and making sure those I'm not townreading get deaded. tiering my townreads carefully so that I'm confident in which slots I'm more likely to be wrong about townreading (in my opinion) is something else I invest a lot of time in.

if I don't feel comfortable with a slot or need more content from it I'll push it.

in fact a bit of hot meta: one of my biggest scumtells is that I really struggle to tier my townreads with believable detail as scum.


that's my town playstyle. you are tunnelling me for things you call "scummy" every now and then, which are indicative of nothing except a certain method of gamesolving haha.


it's very hard to have any pathos for your approach to the game when you're really stubborn about playstyles and a lot of your reads are extremely surface level...and you refuse to show us your thought process about nearly anything.

[the worst]

@MRo, you're either "appealing to emotion" or softclaiming a town power role. please confirm which one.

[the worst]

Then I am completely fine with anyone hammering you.

^

@anyone there is no need to claim intent to hammer. let MR give final reads, analyse his wagon etc. at will but I don't really think there's another lynch to make today.

[the worst]

please stop insulting me as a player...please stop calling NAI playstyle related things scummy.... please stop saying jank reachy conclusiony stuff without any backing it up..... etc. etc...

[the worst]

which is more likely:
- two people are openwolfing and the two others are stupid
- one person is scummy as hell

[the worst]

yes I am.

[the worst]

it's largely a tonal and attitude thing. when he's scum he's pretty awkward around replacing out -- tends to lurk our or make efforts to look like he's townie and he can do it !

when he's town and replaces out he has more of a dgaf attitude. his reaction to MR's SOD1 and instant "lol bye" is very indicative of his town rep out tendencies.

it's like, a mindset read much more strongly than a numbers read. you're also doing the maths wrong--hes like 50% likely to rep out as scum and 10-20% likely to rep out as town. I think we're in the latter.

a sample size of 6 with consistent tells is indeed enough for me to have a read on the way he conducted himself there. the fact Formerfish is townpinging regularly is only reaffirming that read.

[the worst]

I've hit the point of drunkenness where every post is like "oh look at the pretty words".

UNVOTE:
reassessing tomorrow!

Go figure I 100% forgot this post.

intent to hammer

rogers, I would encourage you to fullclaim now. if you have any other thoughts which you think are going to magically spew your alignment / win the game for us you have 2 hours.

[the worst]

honestly, from my point of view it depends on gamestate. I feel like MR is almost taking the game hostage by hyperposting but refusing to do so much that would actually add value.

at this point we've already had several pages worth of posts which were more or less talking in circles (admittedly: I was part of this problem for a while). several of us have made very real attempts to sort MR.

I'm absolutely ready for the flip.

[the worst]

VOTE: Mister Rogers

that was an exhausting phase.

[Plotinus]

@plotinus

Limited access for the next ~48 hours (til the 17thish).
I'll still be around a bit to address immediate questions etc. but probably won't have time to sink my teeth into this too hard.

pretty devastated about that flip.

V/LA noted --P

[the worst]

Also, TW was the one who cast the hammering vote for MR. Maybe he was waiting till there were already 4 votes against MR, so he could cast that final vote? Maybe that could let him quickly lynch MR and transition to night, and not give people time to think and possibly retract their votes?
I'm going to let TW speak before I cast any votes.

why? are you looking for something in particular from me?

sorry for the untimely v/la. should be able to phase back into this game in the next 24 hours.

I was genuinely pretty surprised MR flipped town. I'm also sad about the Formerfish NK but suspect he was powertowning to bait the night kill so there's tradeoffs.

[the worst]

@the worst You are the IC. What do you, the IC, think about claiming not tracker/tracker and then not neapolitan/Neapolitan in a situation where a VT was lynched Day 1, a VT died Night 1, in this setup?

There's no consensus on how to handle this tbh but I'd probably err towards not massclaiming d2

unless you tracked someone to Formerfish last night--claim that, unless you think you can push their lynch organically. doc/jailkeeper did not protect Formerfish last night which means there is officially no town motivated reason for anyone to visit him last night.

if you're an investigative with an innocent on someone, just try and make it obvious in your ISO that you townread them. then if you die we can work out who you inno'd, and if you get counter claimed you can quote your crumbs to better prove that you're the real TPR.

if you're a doc or jk just like... don't get dead. it's up to us to read town/scum counterclaim situations d3 tbh

[the worst]

oof lol. let's go with yourself then

I am not a Neapolitan.

---> the worst. You are next.

I'm not a Nea but let's only claim nea or not nea here. anything more can have pretty bad ramifications.

uhh Draynth next.

[the worst]

so, discretion advised: i don't know how to catch town-slips, i usually look for scum-slips, which isn't great because i should work on going from both sides

anyway, to answer why inf:
because in this reads list here

Okay
Now that I’ve caught up
Duck is pinging me. There is something tonally off in some of his posts that makes me think somethings up. Then again, I have a bad track record with reading Duck so far, so not sure how to look at that.
Fish is very towny. His questioning is strong, natrual progression and natrual tone, genuinely scumhunting. Classic example of town.
Roger I’m still leaning scum on. I think that he dug way too hard at xx early, and I don’t feel like he ever answered fish’s questions. I mean, obviously there are answers there, but I feel like his responses are really guarded?
What the fudge is up with NK15. Like has been said, 343 is trash, and then the whole “answer my questions or get lynched” followed by that unvote is scummy af. Not liking this enterance.
xx I have mixed feelings about. On one hand, his first posts were tonally off. On the other, the way Rogers beared down on him, combined with the fact that this is his first forum game EVER, has me wondering if it’s just a newbie being put under a lot of pressure right on enterance, especially since his tone has improved in posts since then.

fish is your strongest town read, perhaps the only real town read on this list. would make sense for you to nk fish.
but again, was just a shot in the dark - i also like to see people's reactions. i think you're ok for me right now bud.

but i'd like to get some pressure going.
VOTE: the worst
hi

your train of thought is a little hard to follow. mind stepping me through why you FOS"d and cased Inferno then voted for me?

Pressure alone isn't an excuse. for obvious reasons.

[the worst]

yes

[the worst]

I'm pretty keen for the expansion.

one thing I NEED to do is read back through d1 posts other than Mister Roger's to see if anyone felt like they already knew MR would flip town. off the top of my head this is +town points to {Draynth, ferno} and also basically spewed Formerfish as town. I still would have been shocked to see this as anyones scum game because his entire rationale on the MR fiasco felt so incredibly natural. stuff like that is more or less impossible to fake.

if anyone has some free time and wants to throw some thoughts at me to engage on, have a read of ISOs from d1 and tell me:

1. who seemed to think/"know" that MR would flip town
2. did anyone avoid that situation to an unnatural extent? (I don't think so)

what I'm looking for is someone who might have ~known too much~ or tried to completely avoid all of it so that when he DID inevitably flip town they would look better.

I will get to this, still have somewhat limited access (possibly for the next couple of days but this game is priority #1). in the meantime if anyone wants to get started on it I would be hugely grateful.

[the worst]

I'm kinda a little reset on reads to an extent. I will admit I was kind of giving people townstatus around the idea that MR just... Didn't look like town. it would be pretty unfair to drag his name thru the dirt but i feel like its appropriate to update ye olde reads.

Inferno is town and I'll be mad if I'm wrong about this. too many gamestate and playstyle things just tend positive. Feels like a kind or waste of time to reevaluate rn tbh

volxen is someone who seems likely town by gamestate; in retrospect (and later in his d1 posting) his casing on me actually comes across as pretty reasonable. like I can see how it's an incorrect conclusion that comes from town, more so than a cruddy agenda pushed by scum. I also like the fact he's entered d2 like "ya mb I woulda lynched that too" wrt MR which is pretty consistent with the feeling I was getting EOD1 from volxen. if he's scum he's won exactly no 'towncred' moving through the lynch of the player who was townreading him most aggressively out of everyone in the thread. his play feels too earnest and lacks the kind of agenda I expect to see from scum!volxen. so I'm townbinning him for the time being.

Draynth also feels like town when he posts. he's actually been engaged within the scope of his playstyle + lack of free time. I need a sanity check on this tho because I've failed to scumread scum!Draynth twice in a row and he pockets me v easily and he knows it lmfao. basically his pop ins around the MR wagon yesterday just felt really good. he was absolutely on the same page as {FF, myself} without sounding like he was just recycling our thoughts, so he's getting town points from me for the 'soft mind meld' action that was going on. FF also had him pegged for town during the wagon which is pretty promising. However, given how in sync we were I'm also a little nervous FF was also reading the gamestate around how likely MR was to flip scum. Draynth was never scum!MR's partner here, which did inform my townread of him. so I have limited reservations on this read but it still feels good.

I'll need to revisit {xx2008, Hugo, NK15} around the town!MR flip.

[the worst]

xx2008 and NK15
when you're both around please elaborate on your last posts I think getting some votes flowing is probably in our best interest too. that being said I'm really not sure where to vote rn.

[the worst]

Spoiler: while we're discussing TMI just gonna share my homework on innocentvillager

TOWN REP OUTS

mini 1321, innocentvillager's entire ISO (accidental flake)
Newbie 1249 - ISO (scroll down), flaked out
Open 561: Farmer's Market

SCUM REP OUTS

Newbie 1281 - scroll towards the bottom
Newbie 1425 - hit the bottom posts especially
Newbie 1533 - final post before flakeout etc.

town!IV when requesting replacement has much more of a "idgaf" attitude. the first game above he literally forgot it existed and didn't get around to remedying that; this game he was just like "bye guys" and then in this one once again it's a "bye guys".

have a quick squiz through the ends of his ISOs in the scumgames he's replaced out of. there's much more of a tendency to try and save face for his slot and look like he can stick in there and play the game!! then he reps out.

say what you want, his play this game didn't indicate to me that he was pushing an agenda or want for his slot to be townread. the fact he blatantly went "nah screw this" and publicly replaced out while continuing to engage with MR is not the kind of clean look he seems to go for when he flakes out of a scumslot.

think of it like.. if MR is town and IV is scum: then IV tunnelling MR based on their experience (and the fact MR was approaching this game in a blatantly antitown fashion) doesn't come from scum!IV who could sit back and watch someone he knew to be bad at town destroy the town.

and if they're scum together this would also be a ridiculous way to approach the start of day 1, and a very difficult act to keep up. based on cursory meta reads, I'm pretty comfortable with this entrance being outside of IV's scumrange.

this says pretty much nothing abt MR's alignment based off start of day 1 but I really don't see this entrance happening from scum!IV. have a read of his general town/scum games if you'd like, I actually think he's fairly easy to read correctly even outside of the replace out meta. but that's beside the point since he didn't do a lot other than replace out this game. even so i didn't see him either tunnelling town!MR as scum, or as scum with MR.

this was a pretty ballsry read since he reps out of 50% of scumgames and only like 10-15% of towngames but I think if you have a scroll through, the differences in tone is pretty substantial--if anyone is finding this absolutely impossible to follow, reach out to me. i'll talk you through what I'm seeing.

^^^ fyi I'd define hard, cold meta reading (diving into someone's past games to determine how they approach town/scumgames) is a ~fairly~ bad way to read most players and most behaviours. unless you're really good at it. which I'm not.

the advantage this time is that innocentvillager's approach to the game is pretty different as town and scum. he has two very different mindsets to the separate alignments. from what i've seen i'd call his town game stronger than his scum game, but it's hard to say. but anyway he was also in a position of being fairly alarmed by MR's presence in the game which made him a lot more reactive. during the rep out / discussion with MR I got a reasonably strong glimpse into his mind.

[the worst]

that was in relation to Formerfish.

did you read the part of my post where I explained why my reads are resetting so much..? I'm trying to make a point of being more thorough and detailed than I tend to be actually so if you're not following at all, talk me through it.

[the worst]

QUACK QUACK QUACK hi RC<3

why Draynth?

[the worst]

re: tw831
The only players not on the lynch wagon were myself, volxen, and Dray.
But we could just as easily put you in that pool too because you hammered. I could have come in and hammered, as well as anyone else in that pool. But you went first and now you could be trying to get yourself some town credit by looking at the lynch analysis, specifically who wasn't on the vote list, which conveniently clears your name.
It is a good idea though and I will take my time to iso dray later today.
But I would like to say that at beginning of day I did say I had a bad feeling he would flip town. It's more than likely d1 lunches will flip towny and after that last game where we flipped a PR I was even more hesitant. scum read me for it if you want, but you'll just be going down the same path as last game, like when you were scum and pushed a lynch on me.

there's probably not a lot to gain by appealing to my emotions Hugo, I have no soul :0

it's not about lynching on wagon or off wagon actually. if you think someone on wagon had a pretty crap reason to be on it, speak up.

for what it's worth I was voting MR for a solid chunk of d1 and completely forgot that I'd unvoted him when I had. I spent so much of d1 trying to reach out to him and kept hitting walls. but if you think I was sketchy around the wagon or my vote / hammer were ill-intended, please talk to me about it.

at like a binary level I can understand my optics aren't good after hammering a townie. that's pretty normal. just talk to me if you think it comes from scum!me.

[the worst]

bless u rc
the chainsaw had me like

see u soon

[the worst]

Massive wallpost incoming regarding the draynth slot, I understand that most people in this game will not have the time to read it but I would appreciate it if someone who does could summarize it for others

Spoiler: Draynth

the dude is scum

hugo is his partner

So you believe the wagon on MR was an all-town wagon? Interesting.

actually fwiw I'm feeling somewhat the same wrt the wagon. I vibe 0-1 scum there because like I can't remember ANY vote's on MR standing out to me as particularly gross

I'm also aware I was tunnelled af for what that's worth so I do need to reassess

[the worst]

gonna mull over it a lil before throwing my vote down but I quite like it. what pinged you about his vote specifically?

[the worst]

i'm feeling rly lazy right now

who are you more interested in a case on, draynth or hugo

huggozzle
his voting todsy mostly

[the worst]

one could even say I was [blank]
but yeah sorry I enjoy being town with you so gotta make the most of it.

[the worst]

[Not tracker/nea]

I'm this one

also nearly brought this up but I never 100% understood your breaking strat so figured we could to this after nea

[the worst]

I haven't claimed tracker and if you saw any softing it was not due to a tracker role lmao

[the worst]

in other words I PINKIE PROMISE I'm not tracker and not gambiting

[the worst]

I mean if you are I'm not judging
I did not claim tracker.

[the worst]

always deliver what you didn't promise if it ~feels~ like the right thing to deliver, IMO.

that's a very solid post and I'm lieking the mindset.
I think you're reading me actively sorting people (and having fluid reads within a gamestate which assumed MR flipped red) as interacting with scumbuddies but other than that I don't have a lot to throw back @ you.

I guess correct, my townread on Draynth is actively cognisant that he's capable of pocketing me and I'm bad at reading him.

my early read of Hugo was that his posting was pretty null and easy to read as scummy but he was also never scum with MR which shoved him up my readslist as the d1 situation developed. hence why I started d2 admitting that I needed to reset reads following the townflip.

anyway I think my trajectory is all like... there in my posting so
I'll leave it w you to work with.

[the worst]

honestly I wish I was an RC alt.

pedit are you saying his reads lack intelligence and nuance or do you think they come from scum?

[the worst]

i thought his tw / dray argument was compelling
also with you trying to pocket me by town reading me d1 after muh salts.
i could really see u being scum this game tw

shall we lynch Dray then?

[the worst]

i thought his tw / dray argument was compelling
also with you trying to pocket me by town reading me d1 after muh salts.
i could really see u being scum this game tw

i thought his tw / dray argument was compelling
also with you trying to pocket me by town reading me d1 after muh salts.
i could really see u being scum this game tw

shall we lynch Dray then?

LOL nice try
VOTE: the worst

nicee

[the worst]

the idea that a town IC is always a n1 kill is a very common misconception. being an IC doesn't expressly mean that I'm a skilled player.... in fact, I'm the worst. Mister Rogers was wrong on a few fronts but this assumption was by far the most wrong assumption he made, and he flatly refused to talk to me about that assumption. >:/

IC is a voluntary experience and it means I'm EXPERIENCED and aware or SITE META. it doesn't expressly mean that I'm a skilled player, and it doesn't guarantee that I will perform well and have good reads in the game. there are many reasons to leave strong players alive, even if you do want to operate under the assumption that I'm a strong player.

as scum in my last newbie game I left the IC alive until the end of the game because I thought I could pocket him (and hey I was correct).

I'm an absolute nightmare to pocket but some players are very good at it. I also had higher scum equity (basically, bad optics) by powerlynching and then hammering MR who flipped town, than Formerfish who replaced into a towny slot and continued to be transparently towny for the entire game.

there was no reason I should have been shot over FF yesterday, based on my day one play.

I know it's tempting to draw conclusions and connect dots in this way but it's not actually conductive to finding the truth. try and parse it a couple of levels deeper. some stuff to think about if you wanna talk about this:
- assume I am scum fot a moment. given how hard FF and I were jamming yesterday, why would I kill him?
- who, if anyone, in this game would kill FF before me? for example does anyone look like they have me pocketed? is there anyone who I'm giving too easy a townread to?
- on the flipside : assume I'm town for a moment. who do you think would have had incentive to kill me instead of Formerfish, if anyone?

[the worst]

I'm about to quote Mastina oh my

anyone COULD be scum. unless they're cleared by a cop / night actions and it becomes impossible for them to be scum. in my experience the key to staying lucid and wading through the muck of 'could be's and 'maybes' is to focus on what is

probable

instead if what is

possible

.

for example: sure, scum!me could have identified that maybe Formerfish's reads would reset after a town flip from Mister Rogers. I may have wanted to remove him from the picture so that I can wreak havoc. but realistically, if I were scum I would have had him pretty well pocketed (=> he thought I was town) after our mind melds on day one. there's also the {Inferno390, volxen} block who I personally think are almost guaranteed to be town based how they treated d1.

Inferno390 has now been replaced by RC who is one of the strongest town players out there when he's on his A game. I've also beat Inferno as scum previously by pocketing him, and he expressed awareness of that fact in this game.

so for me to be scum, basically you're saying I would have had to choose killing Formerfish over killing one of {Inferno, volxen}. again, possible--do you believe it's probable?

[the worst]

ftr I like this line of enquiry for town!xx2008 it feels pretty clear headed

I just see a shiny and topical #teachingmoment which he potentially won't trust but at least we can revisit post-game!
(づ￣ ³￣)づ

pedit: scum!me prolly shoots volxen n1 here tbqh

[the worst]

I won't be encouraging claiming cop or doc today no..

[the worst]

In case day ends quickly some advice for TPRs (just general advice, Una/Pingu jump in if you disagree or have more to add)

Cop

-- DO NOT TARGET STRONG TOWN PLAYERS OR PEOPLE WHO SEEM TO "KNOW SOMETHING". they will be night killed and your results will be useless. IME cops are best suited targeting players who are kinda null reads, leaning one way or the other. if you can reach day 3 (let's say 3 town vs 2 scum) and out yourself along with your results, that's an instant town win! even in 4v1, you can push the decision down to a 50/50 lynch. If you do get a guilty it's generally advised to either 1) out yourself instantly, or 2) make it REALLY obvious who your guilty is so if you flip town can lynch them

Neopolitan

-- go for similar targets to docs. not super obvious townies, but also not people who are super shady. do not out your results right away. town power roles and scum power roles both return "not vanilla", so if you do out a NV result it can fuck the town. Try and put them in a scummier range, if anything. If you get a Vanilla result, try and townread them subtly but in a way that we'll notice if you die. If you survive until massclaim this almost nullifies scum fakeclaims.

Tracker

-- target the shady people cops need to avoid! if you track someone to a target and they're not dead there's a decent chance the person you tracked is a town power role. reassess this based on the setup once another power role has flipped / claimed etc. If you track someone to a player who dies that night, out your result immediately as on the balance of probabilities it was the night kill.

Jailkeeper

-- i hate this role you can be a roleblocker or a doctor. if you think you can guess who is most likely to be the scum killer tonight, target them--but this function is a lot stronger lategame IMO. for the time being, be a doctor. try and target players who you would kill if you were scum (priority 1: people who you think might be town power roles. priority 2: very towny players....IMO)

Doctor

-- put on your evil hat and think "who would I kill?", then target that person. As with JK priority#1 is town power roles who you think the scumteam will be on to (generally speaking, scum are better at spotting townies who are playing like power roles than town are. so if you have a suspicion, the scumteam likely do, too). Priority #2 is to target very towny players. FRIENDLY REMINDER if you target a player and they don't die, it is very likely they're town. so try and make it clear but not too clear with your reads d2 that you've "cop cleared" them.


The Wiki has shitloads more info but I'm lazy. Google "mafiascum wiki [role name]" and have a good read.

Good luck<3

just grabbing this from a game I actually wasn't IC in!! it's very very general info for the most part so definitely take with a pinch of salt. and read some wiki stuff if you are a TPR and want some more ideas about how to use your night abilities.

just for disclosure: I had spotted the town jailkeeper early in this game and was trying to discreetly steer him to make the right call

[the worst]

I think me/xx probably? has 2 town in it

[the worst]

VOTE: Draynth +1 to NK15's comment.
been mulling over this and I'm pretty sure this is the way to go.

[the worst]

no problems c:

[the worst]

oh ah

[the worst]

they were advances? I was too busy watching the godfather to notice

[the worst]

I'm finding it kinda nice not feeling like I need to be paranoid about you

like we had classic town inferno and I'd be pretty impressed if his scumgame is this similar to his towngame so that's just a good slot

I think you also kinda gave me the reality check I needed on Draynth which like sure it could be a scum move but I think it's just more likely you're town and right

[the worst]

don't BoP him, he always busses
filthy scum, him being on a scum lynch is basically a scumtell



translation guide for this shitposting for newbies:
BoP = "burden of proficiency" -- in its simplest form, assuming that a highly skilled player should successfully be able to lynch scum and if they can't then they are scum.
this has many layers but simply: avoid doing it in a general sense. very very few players can correctly be read by assuming they'll correctly lynch scum. xD
and bussing is just throwing your scunbuddy under the bus so you'll look more towny.

=====
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... reviations
this article is worth a read for some abbreviations if I haven't linked it before. and ye always please ask if you look at something someone says and it doesn't make sense.

[the worst]

oh absolutely.

[the worst]

ok so why did you vote me for 'rvs voting' him when I came into thread?

why not

to spin it another way
what made you think it was a random vote?

[the worst]

that one was a hammer.. unless you're suggesting a d3 wagon

if you're town who do you think is seriously scum? like I really don't think rc is fam

NK15 is scummy why?
who else if anyone?
final townreads?

[the worst]

allowing for NK15 having decided you had really high scum equity with {me, Hugo} I really don't see that as a scummy move tbqh it felt pretty intuitive to me

the meta thing is.....like, fine..... but your play here has been pretty hit and miss as well. my vote was far more play oriented than meta oriented, I actually didn't bother reading the game

[the worst]

alright nobody vote please. we officially have 5 players alive including 3 town and 2 mafia, which means a single vote from town on town can allow the mafia to quicklynch and hit the lynch threshold of 3.

volxen was the cop which means he PROBABLY had a result on night one. I'm gonna go dive his d2 iso to see if he left us any clues.

[the worst]

any remaining town power roles should claim immediately btw

[the worst]

@The Worst, to be honest, I was seriously considering that TW/Fish may have been the scumteam on day 1, because of the way you both pushed me and then both pushed MR, among the other things that I found suspicious about your gameplay (and Fish's gameplay) which I mentioned on day 1. In general, your play and Fish’s play came across as incredibly coordinated and synchronized (e.g., you guys basically agreed on just about everything, instantly townlocked each other, voted the same, pushed the same people, made very similar arguments, defended each other, etc.), which played a large part in me suspecting that TW/Fish was the scumteam.

However, TW I came to the conclusion that your interactions with Fish had to be either TvT or SvS. You guys seriously mindmelded as soon as Fish joined the game, and the way you two basically instantly townlocked each other convinced me that either 1) you guys were coordinating the way you were because you are the scumteam or 2) you guys have played with one another enough to recognize each other’s town game. Given how much experience the two of you have, I don't believe that scum!TW would be able to get an instant townlock from town!Fish. Fish was never once skeptical of your play and the possibility of scum!TW never even crossed his mind, which I don't think would be the case if you were scum. I’m also assuming here that you and Fish are familiar with each other’s town and scum games.

So Fish’s flip has completely convinced me that you are town and that my initial scumread of you was wrong. I don't know how you feel about my slot, but I wanted to put that out there. At this point I would be absolutely blown away if you turned out to be scum, because I simply don't see how it's possible that your interactions with Fish could have possibly been SvT. I don’t think Fish could be fooled into townlocking you that easily and that quickly.

Where do I stand for you? I was one of your biggest scumreads on day one, but towards the end of the day you also made the comment that you thought our interactions were starting to sound like TvT.

Another possibility was that people were suspecting fish+worst when it was actually just worst(scum)
A third possibility is that Mafia has a power role and fished for a PR while wanting to avoid protection.

Well who do you think are potential scum partners for TW then? I just have a hard time seeing TW as scum without Fish being his partner. So much about TW's and Fish's day one interactions suggest they are the same alignment.

...

...

I'm pretty sure volxen copcleared me and I didn't notice
can anyone else weigh in?

[the worst]

actually erryone should fullclaim rn

probably like
Hugo => xx2008 => NK15 => RC

pedit: Hugo what's your role?

[the worst]

check the posts he made on d2 alone tho because he didn't have the result on d1

[the worst]

probably gonna stubbornly insist everyone claims rn pls

[the worst]

like, we massclaimed tracker. doctor claim only tells us anything if we flip a roleblocker and in that universe the doctor would still be able to claim tomorrow

ye but I'd rather get the drama over w now

[the worst]

lol anyway

gut tells me {NK15, xx2008} is the scumteam.
I need to look into a few things. I'll try and re-read a bit soon. (I'm really struggling wrt revisiting d1 of this game). sorry for keeping people waiting.

[the worst]

I have to say, I'm getting a better feeling about Mister Rogers now. I'm getting a little suspicious of NK15 for his threat on the worst. He is trying to get the worst to be under pressure by saying he is at L-1 right at the start, which I do not have a very good feeling for. He isn't really making a threat either. He's unable to vote and have a lynch because he already voted. Unless he has a scum partner ready to cast that final vote, it won't be a lynch. More likely, his scum partner has already voted, because having someone else cast the final vote would be too obvious that he has a scum partner. My current scumreads are NK15 and volx.

NK15, you seem scum. You voted duck and told him to answer your question or be lynched. You couldn't actually hammer because you already voted. If you had a scum partner that didn't vote yet, that would be the only way for a real threat. Otherwise, people won't hammer.

Right we have a specific request not to hammer here so the only action open to us until Hugo comes back and such is to EXPRESS INTENT -- basically say "I am going to hammer you". I don't think Duck should claim until Hugo comes back, since we aren't ready to hammer yet. I think Hugo is town and I think we should wait for more input from him?

Adding up the votes, we have you, volx, and NK15 against TW. If Hugo wants to vote TW, then that's 4 votes. Who is the 5th one? can't hammer without a 5th vote.

NK15 is leaning more towards the town side for me. He's not as scummy anymore. For MR, he's become more and more scummy. He wants to lynch NK15 just to speed up the game, but it's not really helpful to the game.

I managed to access this through phone. I've caught up now, and I'm seeing quite a lot of scummy posts from MR. For one, with the worst and NK15, he voted for the worst while saying NK15 was a better lynch. Another is him not explaining what he said he would explain just adds onto it like FF said. I'm gonna vote on him for now bc he is probably scum for these things.

You're probably one of my top scumreads right now, MR. Your posts contradict, which I'm guessing is because you either weren't thinking or you were trying to push a lynch on NK15 but failed and your plan backfired. NK15 is really not all that scummy. Although he's not the top poster, he does make legitimate posts rather than post just to not get prodded. The "policy lynch" is not a good idea because it will just give the scum an opportunity to lynch a town and then kill a town at night.

I think we might do some claims. If we lynch a town today, we're at lylo tomorrow, as NK15 said. If pr's claim, one of the pr's will die tonight, because the mafia will want to get him. But getting at lylo makes it dangerous for town. So maybe a claim will help?

I'm thinking that NK15 and inferno are town, which leaves TW. There is a chance it could be TW, because of his 1v1 with MR earlier.

VOTE: Draynth
Agree with NK15 as well.

you agree with nk15?

You, actually. I mistyped.

Yes, you are copcleared.
This wagon built lightning fast, and we KNOW that there is at least one scum in it. My suspicion points towards xx, who did little but to sheep my case.
The same is true for Mister Rogers, and it are the same people who are on and off the wagon... of those who are alive.

Official Vote Count 1.18

Lynching

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Mister Rogers

(5): Inferno390,

Not Known 15

, xx2008,

Formerfish, the worst

<-- LYNCH

Not Known 15

(2): Hugo Stiglitz,

Mister Rogers

the worst

(1):

volxen

Not Voting

(1):

Draynth

Deadline:

(expired on 2018-09-17 18:00:00).

Mod notes:

A lynch has been achieved!

Official Vote Count 2.04

Lynching

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to lynch.

Draynth

(4):

Not Known 15

,

the worst,

xx2008, RadiantCowbells

the worst

(1): Hugo Stiglitz

RadiantCowbells

(1):

Draynth

Not Voting

(1):

volxen

Deadline:

(expired on 2018-09-22 09:45:00).

Mod notes:

A lynch has been achieved!

Something that jumps immediately into my eye is the position of xx for both lynches here- position 3.

You can't make big assumptions based on votes. MR acted really scummy day 1 which was probably why people mistook him and lynched him. You were also one of the people to vote him.

For day2, Draynth was lynched. probably because we realized his posts were all very short throughout the whole entire game.. You were also one of the people to vote him.

I have a bad feeling about you @NK15

At least one or both of RC and NK15 is scum, in my opinion.

@Hugo, what do you think of xx's progression on NK15 here?
just Hugo atm pls

[the worst]

@xx2008,
if hugo is scum who's his partner?

[the worst]

think carefully thru this day phase in particular

[the worst]

@Hugo, what do you think of xx's progression on NK15 here?
just Hugo atm pls

It goes from scum to town for no reason at all, except for that in one post he explained that NK15 was starting to post more which made him townish?? Doesnt make sense eto me, I'd like to hear your take on it as well.
I got an OMGUS after posting my thoughts from their ISO as well which kind of confirms my suspicions

think this is a read on a scumbuddy or town? (sorry I know it's an abstract question: I think you're in the best position to have your brain picked fmpov)

[the worst]

@xx2008,
if hugo is scum who's his partner?

It’s going to be either NK15 or RC.

that's why I asked which one

[the worst]

okay someone yell out if this misses anything but
by hammertesting (i.e. if this was wrong, the hypothetical team would have already hammered town and won the game), there is:

exactly 1 scum in {xx, Hugo}
exactly 1 scum in {RC, NK15}

think this is a read on a scumbuddy or town? (sorry I know it's an abstract question: I think you're in the best position to have your brain picked fmpov)

If I'm reading this question correctly I think xx is reading a scumbuddy.
But I would also like to hear your thoughts since you're probably getting shot tonight as confirmed town and no doc

I kinda agree with this. Plus--the fact xx has suddenly seized up and can't give a read on the NK15/RC dichotomy voluntarily is making me think he's the scum in your bracket.

I'm aware I haven't pushed him too hard for this which might be seen as a bit cheeky or mean and I'm gonna feel pretty bad if I'm wrong on this read. but it would surprise me to see town that's been so open with his thoughts all game then suddenly frozen up on a single LyLo dichotomy.

[the worst]

the second dichotomy is so much harder zzzz
NK15 has played a lot more tactically than I usually see him play, something is different. his initial slip into the thread and L-1 on me was so like mechanical and forced in hindsight that it kinda works as scum in a world where MR is town (just a reminder, I didn't even consider this world on d1).

actually I really want to reevaluate my read on Inferno but i feel like I'm kinda stuck at townreading him. he hiveminded me as hard as Formerfish did at the start of d1 and this just has his usual Inferno flavour of d1 town Vs. town argument. the only additional dramatic flair seems to just come from the fact that MR was playing against the rest of the town for the entirety of day 1.


RC also could have hammered Hugo so he's basically confirmed either town, or scum with Hugo.

most likely team is {NK15, xx2008}
then {RC, hugo}
then {Hugo, NK15} which.. I don't feel a lot of chemistry with..


if I'm wrong on xx/Hugo I don't see my mind changing very easily.

VOTE: xx2008

pedit: I've read all your posts and I was getting there!!!