Codenames (Game 65 in progress)

[Farren]

4-1 on the first turn isn't bad at all. There's an argument to be made for passing here.

Mizzy, do you still want to guess Turkey?

[Farren]

Works for me.

Pass

.

[Farren]

Hm. Moving from LOCATION to EARTH, with a 3 this time.

Going to put my thoughts in a spoiler tag so Mizzy can come up with their own ideas without being influenced by mine:

Spoiler: EARTH

Earth and Moon are both celestial bodies; the Moon orbits the Earth.
Pits can be dug in the earth.
Cliffs are made of earth; they're a natural geographic feature of Earth.
Turkey is a country of Earth.
Earth has a day-Night cycle.
Worms burrow through the earth.

I feel most strongly about Moon; weakest about Night. Everything else is up in the air.

[Farren]

Spoiler: didn't even realize...

When I typed out day-night cycle, I was referring to Night - I didn't realize Cycle was on the board too. Cycle's even weaker than Night.

[Farren]

We both agree on Moon as a top choice, so let's start there.

PEdit> Ooh, good point about earthworms. You're right, that's a lot better connection.

Guess: Moon

Guess: Worm

[Farren]

Spoiler: My thoughts ...

That narrows it down to three, I think.

ICE is always cold.
NIGHT can be cold, and is colder than day.
Quitting cold TURKEY is a common expression.

ICE >>>>>> TURKEY > NIGHT is where I am. Ice's strength should be obvious. Turkey connects with both Location and Earth, while Night only connects to Earth (loosely)

[Farren]

No, I think we're good.

Guess: Ice

Guess: Turkey

[Farren]

Spoiler: My thoughts

Cherry 1 - best guess just based on that clue is PIT. Cherries have pits.
I don't see how PIT connects to Cold, but the only other semi-reasonable connection to Cherry is HONEY, and that's not really cold either. {More room temperature.} And there's far easier ways to get to HONEY (Bees, 1; Sweet, 1).

So my guess is PIT.

[Farren]

AFRICA	ICE	ENGINE	DIVER	GLOVE
TABLET	PIT	HOLLYWOOD	NIGHT	BUGLE
SQUARE	EGYPT	CYCLE	OIL	FORCE
WATCH	MOON	CLIFF	ANGEL	WORM
EAGLE	BELL	HONEY	TURKEY	KNIGHT

Blue Clues	Red Clues
8/8	7/9
LOCATION - Unlimited	SWOOP - 5
EARTH - 3	METAL - 5
COLD - 2	HAND - Unlimited
CHERRY - 1	SWALLOW - Unlimited

Team	Spy Master	Members
RED TEAM	Not_Mafia	Charles510, Cat Scratch Fever
BLUE TEAM	Nancy Drew 39	Farren, Mizzytastic

Think that's correct?

[Farren]

/in to guess.
/in to Spymaster.

Welcome back!

I should be in the Spymaster queue as well.

[Farren]

I'm okay either way. If I'm not spymastering, I'll do my usual /in if needed to even out the teams.

[Farren]

GAUGES, 2.

[Farren]

Ruler

Needle

RULER is

Red

.

DANCE	UNICORN	FAN	TRUNK	PILOT
DEGREE	DINOSAUR	ROULETTE	SINK	MOLE
NEEDLE	THEATER	ORANGE	DIVER	RULER
SPINE	BOX	PLATYPUS	MASS	BUGLE
EUROPE	BEAR	PRESS	KIWI	OCTOPUS

Blue Clues	Red Clues
0/9	1/8
GAUGES - 2

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	Farren	Not_Mafia, Mizzytastic
RED TEAM	Cat Scratch Fever	Charles510, Nancy Drew 39

EDIT> corrected the # of red clues (up to 1/8).

[Farren]

DANCE	UNICORN	FAN	TRUNK	PILOT
DEGREE	DINOSAUR	ROULETTE	SINK	MOLE
NEEDLE	THEATER	ORANGE	DIVER	RULER
SPINE	BOX	PLATYPUS	MASS	BUGLE
EUROPE	BEAR	PRESS	KIWI	OCTOPUS

Blue Clues	Red Clues
0/9	1/8
GAUGES - 2	NEMO - 4

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	Farren	Not_Mafia, Mizzytastic
RED TEAM	Cat Scratch Fever	Charles510, Nancy Drew 39

[Farren]

SPIN, 4.

[Farren]

Prodding the blue team. (Not_Mafia, Mizzytastic)

[Farren]

Roulette

Fan

Dance

ROULETTE is

blue

.
FAN is

blue

.
DANCE is

blue

.

DANCE	UNICORN	FAN	TRUNK	PILOT
DEGREE	DINOSAUR	ROULETTE	SINK	MOLE
NEEDLE	THEATER	ORANGE	DIVER	RULER
SPINE	BOX	PLATYPUS	MASS	BUGLE
EUROPE	BEAR	PRESS	KIWI	OCTOPUS

Blue Clues	Red Clues
3/9	1/8
GAUGES - 2	NEMO - 4
SPIN - 4

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	Farren	Not_Mafia, Mizzytastic
RED TEAM	Cat Scratch Fever	Charles510, Nancy Drew 39

[Farren]

Degree

DEGREE is

neutral

.

DANCE	UNICORN	FAN	TRUNK	PILOT
DEGREE	DINOSAUR	ROULETTE	SINK	MOLE
NEEDLE	THEATER	ORANGE	DIVER	RULER
SPINE	BOX	PLATYPUS	MASS	BUGLE
EUROPE	BEAR	PRESS	KIWI	OCTOPUS

Blue Clues	Red Clues
3/9	1/8
GAUGES - 2	NEMO - 4
SPIN - 4

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	Farren	Not_Mafia, Mizzytastic
RED TEAM	Cat Scratch Fever	Charles510, Nancy Drew 39

[Farren]

PLATYPUS

PLATYPUS is

blue

.

DANCE	UNICORN	FAN	TRUNK	PILOT
DEGREE	DINOSAUR	ROULETTE	SINK	MOLE
NEEDLE	THEATER	ORANGE	DIVER	RULER
SPINE	BOX	PLATYPUS	MASS	BUGLE
EUROPE	BEAR	PRESS	KIWI	OCTOPUS

Blue Clues	Red Clues
4/9	5/8
GAUGES - 2	NEMO - 4
SPIN - 4	PREDATOR - INFINITE

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	Farren	Not_Mafia, Mizzytastic
RED TEAM	Cat Scratch Fever	Charles510, Nancy Drew 39

[Farren]

TUNNELS, 0.

[Farren]

TRUNK
BOX
THEATER

TRUNK is

red

.
BOX is

red

.
THEATER is

red

.

Red team wins! Congratulations!

DANCE	UNICORN	FAN	TRUNK	PILOT
DEGREE	DINOSAUR	ROULETTE	SINK	MOLE
NEEDLE	THEATER	ORANGE	DIVER	RULER
SPINE	BOX	PLATYPUS	MASS	BUGLE
EUROPE	BEAR	PRESS	KIWI	OCTOPUS

Blue Clues	Red Clues
6/9	8/8
GAUGES - 2	NEMO - 4
SPIN - 4	PREDATOR - INFINITE
TUNNELS - 0	ENCLOSED - 3

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	Farren	Not_Mafia, Mizzytastic
RED TEAM	Cat Scratch Fever	Charles510, Nancy Drew 39

[Farren]

For those who want to try to figure out the blue team's words, click on this spoiler for my next clue:

Spoiler: My next clue would have been ...

CREATIONISM, 3.

For those who want to know what the heck I was thinking with the zero clue, click on this spoiler (warning: spoils our last three words; if you want to guess first, look at the first spoiler and make your guess before looking at this one):

Spoiler: Seriously, a zero clue?

Our remaining words were: UNICORN, MASS, and KIWI. So I was trying to go with some sort of Christian flavor to hit MASS and then some sort of life connection for UNICORN and KIWI. But MOLEs run afoul of the life connection, and EUROPE isn't quite in the same vein, but there are an awful lot of living things there, as well as some Christians. So, they had to be eliminated. Problem - Red had three words left. So the less information we give them about the board, the better; knowing that MOLE and EUROPE aren't ours doesn't tell them anything helpful. Plus that way I figured our team would go back and hit PILOT and NEEDLE (which they did!) so I could then set up the next clue with the correct number. Alas, we never got the chance; the information denial wasn't enough! Shoulda stuck with ALTIMETER 2 for the opener - or better yet, thought of SPIN 4 sooner than I did.

[Farren]

Oh, and /in if needed to even out the teams for the next game.

[Farren]

Creationism doesn't really connect to Europe IMO, but at the time I gave Tunnel 0 I hadn't yet come up with Creationism. I was coming up with things like Baptismal (too weak for unicorn), Living (too weak for Mass), Benign (too weak for Kiwi). In the world where I try to convince y'all to go for the gold, I also have to fit in one of PILOT / NEEDLE so I can give it as a 4-clue (or risk the Unlimited), and Creationism doesn't really fit with that. LIVING is probably the best one there (hits PILOT easily enough), but Europe is a place where people live, and Mole definitely is a better hit than MASS (and arguably some of the other words as well).

I figured Europe is a place where one could encounter tunnels, for that anti-connection.

[Farren]

What was the assassin word? I would have started off with spin, gauge and life. Life=pilot, unicorn, kiwi, mass, unless Europe was the assassin word? Was it press? Because I thought if not pilot, press could possibly a gauge word.

Life has a weaker connection to Europe than living imo, because living makes you think more of culture than simply life. Story could have tied both mass and unicorn but probably nothing else.

Yeah, but when it comes to the assassin (which was indeed Europe), "weaker" isn't good enough, IMO. Especially early on.

SPIN was probably my best possible opener, and I very much wish I'd thought of it sooner.

Actually, hm. ROTATIONAL might have been better still. Still hits everything I need it to hit *and* has a shot of picking up MASS as well, which was one of the oddball words. ROTATIONAL - 5 (dance/fan/roulette/pilot/mass), POINTY - 2 / Unlimited, ... maybe EGGS - 2 (Kiwi/Platypus) if Dinosaur and Orange are both off the board by then?

[Farren]

Just as a note: my original /in was if needed to even out the teams. So unless someone joins the red team during the game, I'll be keeping quiet in the interest of fairness. I've already cleared this with CM1.

[Farren]

/in if needed to even out the teams.

Also, can finally point this out: "x-ray" is hyphenated, and thus illegal; hyphenated clues aren't one word unless the appropriate flexible rule is in play. None of Nancy's opponents called it out, though, and if none of her opponents call it out then by the rules her team isn't penalized for it afterwards; it becomes legal after-the-fact.

Good reminder to everyone playing to keep an eye out for enemy spymasters trying to get away with things. (And that anyone not playing needs to keep quiet during the game if they see it, as it's the opponents' responsibility to catch illegal clues, not the mod's or anyone else's.)

[Farren]

You are expected to have read through the Official Rules booklet and know what clues are legal and what aren't (keep in mind that the flexible rules on page 7 are not in play)

From the rule booklet, page 7:

Compound Words
English has three ways to write a compound
word. Greenhouse is one word. Pack rat is two
words. Mother-in-law is hyphenated. Technically,
only greenhouse can be a one-word clue.

[Farren]

So by default, hyphenated words, pronouns, acronyms, and anything else listed in the flexible rules section aren’t allowed.

Pronouns are totally valid, although I don't think I've ever seen someone clue one. "She" would be a valid clue.

[Farren]

Proper names are always valid clues if they
follow the other rules. George is a valid clue, but
you might want to specify whether you mean
George Washington or George W. Bush.
Your group can agree to count proper names as one
word. This would also allow titles such as The
Three Musketeers. Even if you don't allow multiword proper names, you might want to make an
exception for place names like New York.

One-word names like Seattle, Barbara, Moby, Beatles - always legal.
Two-word (or more) names like Barbara Bush, Moby Dick - not legal unless the broad flexible rule is in play.
Two-word (or more) place names like New York, Grand Rapids, Port-au-Prince - not legal unless the narrow flexible rule is in play.

Beatles specifically could be an issue if the Spymaster is trying to stretch it to include both the band and the insect - but that's because of the homonym rule, not because of any rule about proper names.

[Farren]

Duet's rules (which are supposed to be identical in terms of what constitutes a valid clue) are even clearer:

Proper names are okay, as long as they are one
word.

[Farren]

Spoiler: My thoughts on Cheshire

The only "Cheshire" I know of is the Cheshire Cat from

Alice in Wonderland

, so ...

Cheshire Cat specifically - honestly, nothing immediately hits me? Brainstorming about the Cheshire Cat ...
- Can turn invisible / disappear. When doing so, its body gradually vanishes, with its face (specifically, its smile) the last thing to go. Connections there - FACE for how it disappears, WITCH for the magical nature of the Cat.
- Enigmatic. Lots of stuff in Wonderland was, but the Cat more so. Nothing really connects here that I can see.

Brainstorming about cats in general ...
- LION is an obvious cat connection; both felines.
- MOUSE as the eternal foe of the cat.
- DUCKs and cats don't exactly get along either, but far weaker than LION / MOUSE.
- WITCH again, as they're frequent familiars of cats.

Brainstorming about

Alice in Wonderland

...
- Caterpillar, Mad Hatter, Dormouse (?) - that brings up MOUSE again. Mad Hatter slightly connects to MERCURY (I think I remember reading somewhere that the whole "Mad as a hatter" stereotype was due to the hatters working with mercury and consequently getting mercury poisoning).
- Queen of Hearts. Maybe a connection to JACK here? I know the Queen was a major figure, and there were the card soldiers as well, but I always envisioned them as non-face cards.
- The Queen loved the whole "Off with your head!" business, which connects to UNDERTAKER and DEATH, more so the latter.
- The "Eat me" and "drink me" stuff was, I think, on a TABLE.
- Alice herself is a KID.
- I think Alice enters Wonderland by jumping into a HOLE in the ground? Chasing the ... white rabbit, was it?

So that's FACE, WITCH, LION, MOUSE, DUCK, MERCURY, JACK, UNDERTAKER, DEATH, TABLE, KID, HOLE. Yeah, uh, that's too many.

I'd say FACE, MOUSE, WITCH, LION, KID, HOLE? In roughly that order of confidence, with KID and HOLE being notably weak.

[Farren]

All three of us thought of FACE, LION, and MOUSE, so those are probably the best ones to open with.

I'd put them FACE > MOUSE > LION (mostly because of the dual Dormouse / cat&mouse association).

[Farren]

We're just about at 48 hours, so time to queue up at least one guess.

Guess: FACE

[Farren]

(expired on 2022-03-14 19:50:00).

[Farren]

Spoiler: My thoughts

Chariot connections:
VAN: both VAN and Chariot are wheeled modes of transportation.
PLANE: both PLANE and Chariot are modes of transportation.
FIRE: isn't

Chariots of Fire

a thing? Maybe?
LION: thinking along the lines of Roman gladiatorial stuff here. I'd expect to see Chariot races and people fighting lions. That sort of thing.
MERCURY: again with the Roman connection - Mercury as the Roman version of Hermes.
PILOT: would a Chariot driver be called a pilot? Not sure on this one.

Thing is, with a 5, that means there's a minimum of two words that connect to both Cheshire and Chariot, and the only one of those I see a Cheshire connection to is LION.

5-clue means six guesses. I'm leaning LION (both) > VAN (Chariot) = MOUSE (Cheshire) > ... think we need an absolute minimum of four hits here and preferably five, but after having FACE fail so dramatically, my confidence is shot. WITCH, maybe? FIRE if someone else can confirm the Chariots of Fire thing?

[Farren]

Running low on time ... should we give LION a try?

[Farren]

Opponents need two to win. I think we have to guess until we get it wrong here.

Will post my thoughts on the clues later this evening.

[Farren]

Spoiler: Mostly about Ring...

RING:
- SPY rings are a thing.
- Ring of FIRE is a thing.
- Rings have HOLEs; both Rings and HOLEs are round.

FIRE connects to both Chariot and Ring; HOLE connects to both Cheshire and Ring. (Counterpoint: the one thing that connected to both Cheshire and Chariot was wrong.)

Ring doesn't strike me as a super-obvious connection for any one item, so I don't think it's meant to be a 1-clue.

Just between those three, without regards to any other clues, HOLD = FIRE > SPY.

[Farren]

I'd start with FIRE, but my judgment has been lousy of late.

[Farren]

HOLE next?

[Farren]

Agree with Mouse.

[Farren]

What about VAN for Chariot?

[Farren]

I'm okay with that.

[Farren]

Guess: VAN

Guess: PLANE

[Farren]

just to get this on the current page ...

SPY	WEB	LION	MOUSE	FACE
NAIL	MISSILE	PILOT	UNDERTAKER	HOLE
FIRE	VAN	TABLE	DEATH	KID
MERCURY	NEEDLE	PLASTIC	LOCK	JACK
STREAM	BOND	WITCH	DUCK	PLANE

Blue Clues	Red Clues
4/9	7/8
CHESHIRE - 6	ACRYLIC - 3
CHARIOT - 5	HOLD - 4
RING - INFINITE	PREPARING - 2
FORK - INFINITE

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	Nancy Drew 39	Cat Scratch Fever, Farren, Not_Mafia
RED TEAM	The Bulge	Charles510, Not Known 15, Datisi

[Farren]

Spoiler: Thoughts on FORK...

Forks are commonly found on TABLEs.
Forks and NEEDLES are both pointy tools designed to stab things, usually made out of metal.
Big stretch: pitchforks and MISSILEs are both weapons.

Nothing else really catches my eye there. FORK could be anywhere from 1-3 hits.

Spoiler: Thoughts on the game as a whole, including Forks...

Cheshire: MOUSE, HOLE, ?, ?, ?, ?
Chariot: VAN, FIRE, ?, ?
Ring: HOLE, FIRE, ... ? ...

Of the three possible FORK hits:
- Missiles and Chariots are both tools of war.
- Does the Cheshire Cat ever sit on a table? Or possibly table could be a reference to the Mad Tea Party, or to the table where the EAT ME / DRINK ME stuff was kept?
- I don't see any reasonable connection between Needle and any of the other clues, other than maybe RING (both metal objects).

Missile is my least favorite as a Fork clue, but the connection to past clues is at least slightly better than the others.

There's also got to be at least two words that connect to both Cheshire and Chariot, and I cannot for the life of me think of any that reasonably connect to both.

Other Cheshire connections: KID (referring to Alice), JACK (referring to the Queen of Hearts), WITCH (both magical creatures).
Other Chariot connections: ... MERCURY? (not a fan of this one given that PLANE was a bust - Mercury the Roman God would have a flying chariot specifically, which makes PLANE a much stronger connection - and PLANE was wrong.) DEATH? (thinking gladiators again, but that brings back LION which was wrong.) JACK? (as a mechanical tool to change a tire on a chariot? feh, but it's at least a possible Cheshire/Chariot combo?)
Other Ring connections: SPY is the only thing I can think of here, and I can't connect SPY to any of the other clues.

TABLE > NEEDLE > KID > JACK > ... grumbling ... >

Cheshire: MOUSE, HOLE, KID, JACK, TABLE, ?
Chariot: FIRE, RING, JACK, VAN, ?

And this can't be right unless NEEDLE connects to both - and I don't see it connecting to either.

[Farren]

Just realizing I goofed up in the last breakdown ... RING was a clue, not a guess.

Cheshire:

MOUSE

,

HOLE

, KID, JACK, TABLE, ?
Chariot:

FIRE

, JACK,

VAN

, MERCURY, ?
Ring: FIRE, NEEDLE, HOLE
Fork: NEEDLE, TABLE

That's all nine words. We'd need one of FIRE / VAN / MERCURY / NEEDLE to connect to Cheshire, and one of MOUSE / HOLE / KID / TABLE / NEEDLE to connect to Chariot. If either connection is missing, at least one of these assumptions is wrong.

[Farren]

Didn't someone else mention earlier that WITCH could also connect to Chariot, as in the White Witch of The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe? Also tenuous, but there's at least a tiny connection?

[Farren]

(these are not guesses)
Cheshire: MOUSE, HOLE, KID, JACK, TABLE, WITCH
Chariot: FIRE, JACK, VAN, MERCURY, WITCH
Ring: FIRE, HOLE
Fork: TABLE

with NEEDLE being wrong?

Does Nancy give Fork as a 1-clue for TABLE with NEEDLE on the board? I can see that if TABLE is right, it's definitely the one that needed to be re-clued.

[Farren]

Or alternately, does Fork connect to another unguessed word listed above?

[Farren]

Opponents only have one word left. I think it's safe to say that if we guess this wrong, they'll get a super-easy 1-clue to wrap it up. So discussing their clues openly won't do us any harm.

If TABLE's wrong (because it can be prepared), I'd *really* have to question Fork as a clue. NEEDLE's the only other thing I can see that really makes sense, and plenty of other ways to get to NEEDLE without hitting TABLE.

Plus if NEEDLE is right and TABLE is wrong, that means either NEEDLE was clued by neither Cheshire nor Chariot - which means that there now has to be a minimum of three joint Cheshire/Chariot words - or it was clued, in which case what the heck is the connection?

[Farren]

So that just leaves order, or if we just want to do it all at once.

[Farren]

It's been well past 48. Time to guess something.

Guess: Table

[Farren]

Fire's already been guessed; it's blue.

Guess: Witch

[Farren]

Yup, that sounds right. Still time to waffle and re-think if we want.

[Farren]

Well done, everyone!

Looking up Alice characters ... there was a DUCK in the Caucus race. So that was a connection to Wonderland directly.
Guessing maybe MERCURY was the sixth, in reference to the Mad Hatter?

[Farren]

/in.

[Farren]

Spoiler: My thoughts

Hm. I don't get much out of this one.
As a spiritual symbol, I don't see any connections.
As a reference to totem poles ... maybe? FIGURE, AZTEC, MEXICO come to mind, but I honestly don't know what sort of roles totems play (or played) in Mexican / Aztec society.

[Farren]

How about FIGURE > AZTEC > MEXICO?

[Farren]

Guess:

FIGURE

[Farren]

Guess:

Aztec

[Farren]

Guess:

Mexico

[Farren]

Awesome. 3/3.

Any objections to passing?

[Farren]

Think this is right?

SPOT	CZECH	DIVER	MEXICO	ORANGE
COLD	BOTTLE	BAT	AZTEC	TAIL
PIT	MOUSE	FIGURE	STREAM	NOTE
MICROSCOPE	HELICOPTER	TRUNK	ALIEN	LOCK
PITCH	RACKET	FOOT	DOG	HOTEL

Blue Clues	Red Clues
Driving 3	Totem 3
Science 3	Rod 3
3/9	4/8

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	Mizzytastic	Cat Scratch Fever, the worst
RED TEAM	Nancy Drew 39	Not_Mafia, Farren

[Farren]

Spoiler: My thoughts on ROD

BAT - baseball bat, specifically - similar shape? You were talking about that last time for TOTEM as a possibility.
STREAM - rod as in a fishing rod, would be used in a stream.
Nothing else is really coming to mind here. Maybe TRUNK as a stretch (would maybe keep a fishing rod in the trunk on the way to a fishing trip).

[Farren]

Guess: Bat

[Farren]

So shall we go with STREAM for #2?

I was toying with the notion of LOCK, but just doesn't feel right to me.

[Farren]

We're at 6/8 right now, and our opponents are at 3/9. Might be a good idea to pass now instead of taking a shot at it.

[Farren]

Yup, it is. No one ever replaced Mizzytastic's name with yours in the grid; that probably explains the confusion.

[Farren]

Think this is good?

SPOT	CZECH	DIVER	MEXICO	ORANGE
COLD	BOTTLE	BAT	AZTEC	TAIL
PIT	MOUSE	FIGURE	STREAM	NOTE
MICROSCOPE	HELICOPTER	TRUNK	ALIEN	LOCK
PITCH	RACKET	FOOT	DOG	HOTEL

Blue Clues	Red Clues
Driving 3	Totem 3
Science 3	Rod 3
Travel 3
6/9	6/8

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	mallowgeno	Cat Scratch Fever, the worst
RED TEAM	Nancy Drew 39	Not_Mafia, Farren

[Farren]

Yeah, pretty much has to be.

[Farren]

Guess: Racket

[Farren]

And then there was one.

So which is more likely here?
1) We were on the right track last round and just need to guess the missing ROD clue to win. We mentioned TRUNK, PITCH, and LOCK as possibles.
2) We were on the wrong track.

If we're going to go for it, I would rule out PITCH; pretty easy to come up with a clue to link those two. (BALLS, 2.) RACKET and TRUNK / RACKET and LOCK; I couldn't come up with anything after a few minutes of thinking.

[Farren]

Yeah, that's a good point about TRUNK - if that was the right word, we probably would have gotten TOTEM 4 instead of TOTEM 3.

I'm okay with either guessing LOCK or passing.

[Farren]

Well played, everyone.

[Farren]

I was at least pondering trying to run Duet. Although if I do, it'll be just two people playing at a time co-op - it won't be the "multiple teams, one winning team" competition.

I've noticed that engagement here's been on the low side lately, so that might be the perfect time to have a game running that doesn't require a lot of players.

[Farren]

/in for whatever, as whatever.

[Farren]

Can confirm; at least that's happened with clues before. On the honor system to speak up to the mod if you see something disappear.

[Farren]

Well played, everyone.

Also, to clarify something on the rules in Duet, since I noticed a few Unlimited clues pop up in Nancy's / StrangerCoug's match:

Guessers can guess as many times as they like, as long as they keep guessing correctly. That means that if I give a clue of SANDWICH 2, my partner is

not

forced to pass after three correct guesses. They can keep on guessing as long as they keep guessing agents.

Because of this, unlimited clues are completely unnecessary.

(Zero clues can still come in handy from time to time!)

[Farren]

I'll /in for that, conditional on there being at least six players total. Either role.

[Farren]

CASINO	RABBIT	MUG	OIL	DIVER
STAR	CENTER	ARM	KANGAROO	SHIP
SINK	GAS	BELL	ROULETTE	TRIP
IVORY	EAGLE	ROBOT	GHOST	DOG
IRON	PILOT	JAM	GLASS	WATCH

Blue Clues	Red Clues
2/9	0/8

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	ORAM	Charles510, Not_Mafia
RED TEAM	Farren	Nancy Drew 39, StrangerCoug

[Farren]

BRACELET, 3.

[Farren]

arm, watch

ARM

is

red

.

WATCH

is

red

.

CASINO	RABBIT	MUG	OIL	DIVER
STAR	CENTER	ARM	KANGAROO	SHIP
SINK	GAS	BELL	ROULETTE	TRIP
IVORY	EAGLE	ROBOT	GHOST	DOG
IRON	PILOT	JAM	GLASS	WATCH

Blue Clues	Red Clues
2/9	2/8

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	ORAM	Charles510, Not_Mafia
RED TEAM	Farren	Nancy Drew 39, StrangerCoug

[Farren]

IVORY

IVORY

is

red

.

CASINO	RABBIT	MUG	OIL	DIVER
STAR	CENTER	ARM	KANGAROO	SHIP
SINK	GAS	BELL	ROULETTE	TRIP
IVORY	EAGLE	ROBOT	GHOST	DOG
IRON	PILOT	JAM	GLASS	WATCH

Blue Clues	Red Clues
2/9	3/8

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	ORAM	Charles510, Not_Mafia
RED TEAM	Farren	Nancy Drew 39, StrangerCoug

[Farren]

Dog

Rabbit

DOG

is

blue

.

RABBIT

is

blue

.

CASINO	RABBIT	MUG	OIL	DIVER
STAR	CENTER	ARM	KANGAROO	SHIP
SINK	GAS	BELL	ROULETTE	TRIP
IVORY	EAGLE	ROBOT	GHOST	DOG
IRON	PILOT	JAM	GLASS	WATCH

Blue Clues	Red Clues
4/9	3/8

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	ORAM	Charles510, Not_Mafia
RED TEAM	Farren	Nancy Drew 39, StrangerCoug

[Farren]

STAGE, 2.

[Farren]

Good idea

Trip

TRIP

is

blue

.

CASINO	RABBIT	MUG	OIL	DIVER
STAR	CENTER	ARM	KANGAROO	SHIP
SINK	GAS	BELL	ROULETTE	TRIP
IVORY	EAGLE	ROBOT	GHOST	DOG
IRON	PILOT	JAM	GLASS	WATCH

Blue Clues	Red Clues
6/9	5/8

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	ORAM	Charles510, Not_Mafia
RED TEAM	Farren	Nancy Drew 39, StrangerCoug

[Farren]

CASINO	RABBIT	MUG	OIL	DIVER
STAR	CENTER	ARM	KANGAROO	SHIP
SINK	GAS	BELL	ROULETTE	TRIP
IVORY	EAGLE	ROBOT	GHOST	DOG
IRON	PILOT	JAM	GLASS	WATCH

Blue Clues	Red Clues
6/9	5/8

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	ORAM	Charles510, Not_Mafia
RED TEAM	Farren	Nancy Drew 39, StrangerCoug

[Farren]

AUSTRALIAN, 1.

[Farren]

Kangaroo

KANGAROO

is

red

.

CASINO	RABBIT	MUG	OIL	DIVER
STAR	CENTER	ARM	KANGAROO	SHIP
SINK	GAS	BELL	ROULETTE	TRIP
IVORY	EAGLE	ROBOT	GHOST	DOG
IRON	PILOT	JAM	GLASS	WATCH

Blue Clues	Red Clues
6/9	6/8

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	ORAM	Charles510, Not_Mafia
RED TEAM	Farren	Nancy Drew 39, StrangerCoug

[Farren]

CASINO	RABBIT	MUG	OIL	DIVER
STAR	CENTER	ARM	KANGAROO	SHIP
SINK	GAS	BELL	ROULETTE	TRIP
IVORY	EAGLE	ROBOT	GHOST	DOG
IRON	PILOT	JAM	GLASS	WATCH

Blue Clues	Red Clues
8/9	6/8

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	ORAM	Charles510, Not_Mafia
RED TEAM	Farren	Nancy Drew 39, StrangerCoug

[Farren]

ENGINEERING, 2.

[Farren]

Iron

IRON

is

a bystander.

Blue team's turn.

CASINO	RABBIT	MUG	OIL	DIVER
STAR	CENTER	ARM	KANGAROO	SHIP
SINK	GAS	BELL	ROULETTE	TRIP
IVORY	EAGLE	ROBOT	GHOST	DOG
IRON	PILOT	JAM	GLASS	WATCH

Blue Clues	Red Clues
8/9	6/8

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	ORAM	Charles510, Not_Mafia
RED TEAM	Farren	Nancy Drew 39, StrangerCoug

[Farren]

Pilot

PILOT

is

blue

.

Blue team wins!

CASINO	RABBIT	MUG	OIL	DIVER
STAR	CENTER	ARM	KANGAROO	SHIP
SINK	GAS	BELL	ROULETTE	TRIP
IVORY	EAGLE	ROBOT	GHOST	DOG
IRON	PILOT	JAM	GLASS	WATCH

Blue Clues	Red Clues
9/9	6/8

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	ORAM	Charles510, Not_Mafia
RED TEAM	Farren	Nancy Drew 39, StrangerCoug

[Farren]

SHIP and OIL were the last two red words; EAGLE was the assassin.

DIVER, GAS, and (especially) PILOT were pretty tough to work around. I could not for the life of me think of anything to tie KANGAROO and OIL together - other than DINOSAUR, but that also points to EAGLE, and arguably better than Kangaroo does.

I was thinking of engineering bays specifically, which would be found in a ship and would utilize oil. Couldn't use ENGINEER due to Pilot; couldn't use ENGINE due to Gas.

Thought about things that float - but so do GHOSTs, as do DIVERs on the return trip.
Thought about Water, but that hits GLASS and DIVER.

Anything power-based hits GAS.
Thought about pistons and hydraulics, but wasn't 100% sure about the latter, and thought pistons would be more likely to hit IRON than SHIP.

[Farren]

Pilots are the ones at the steering wheel.

[Farren]

Joys of the game. I should have tried to take them out sooner, but figured that by leaving them there I was making it harder for ORAM to pick out ROBOT and PILOT - and it backfired.

[Farren]

/in as guesser this time.

[Farren]

Works for me.

[Farren]

We do. The team with 9 clues always goes first.

[Farren]

Game 54

TOWER	TIME	RACKET	KING	SPACE
LEMON	OIL	DRAFT	ROSE	DATE
SNOWMAN	AUSTRALIA	HELICOPTER	TELESCOPE	COOK
BELL	PIANO	STRING	STRIKE	MODEL
STICK	DUCK	DRESS	VET	LASER

Blue Clues	Red Clues
0/9	0/8

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	Charles510	Farren
RED TEAM	Not_Mafia	Nancy Drew 39

[Farren]

Things that are noisy:

RACKET: pretty much a synonym for a lot of noise.
PIANO: loud music.
HELICOPTER: hard to miss when one of those is flying nearby.
DUCK: quack.
BELL: depends on the size of the bell, really.

If the clue had been NOISE, I'd probably start with RACKET, but it wasn't. It probably isn't PIANO / BELL; too many other ways of getting to that.

Let's start with this:

GUESS:

Helicopter

[Farren]

GUESS:

Duck

[Farren]

Pass.

[Farren]

hm.

TOWER - airports have a control tower.
TIME - airports run on schedules; time is a very important concept at an airport.
STICK - planes use a stick?
OIL - something else planes use.
AUSTRALIA - a continent with multiple airports.
RACKET - airports are noisy.
STRIKE - there was a big ATC strike once upon a time ...
DATE - same reason as time, although weaker.

That's a lot of connections.

Let's start here:

Guess:

TOWER

[Farren]

Guess: Airport

[Farren]

Okay, obviously that's not an actual guess, as Airport is not a word on the board.

Guess: Australia

[Farren]

Strike is neutral

not true! Strike is blue!

Given this, I'm going to wait for a mod-posted version of the board before making any guesses.

[Farren]

Guess

: ROSE

[Farren]

One more guess.

STRIKE might very well have been an Airport word, so I'm thinking a max of one more, which might be why I got a one-clue and not an unlimited.

TIME or RACKET ...

Guess

: Racket

[Farren]

TOWER	TIME	RACKET	KING	SPACE
LEMON	OIL	DRAFT	ROSE	DATE
SNOWMAN	AUSTRALIA	HELICOPTER	TELESCOPE	COOK
BELL	PIANO	STRING	STRIKE	MODEL
STICK	DUCK	DRESS	VET	LASER

Blue Clues	Red Clues
6/9	2/8
Noisy - 2	Sight - 2
Airport - 4	War - 3
Flower - 1

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	Charles510	Farren
RED TEAM	Not_Mafia	Nancy Drew 39

Red's up!

[Farren]

Guess: Oil

Guess: Snowman

Both types of power plants / sources of power when burned.
Frosty's eyes are made out of coal.

We'll see what happens after that.

[Farren]

All right. Last round I said that I'd picked up all the Airport clues; that was wrong. Unless Coal or Snowman was one of them - or Rose - I think there's one left. Question is, do I go for it now?

I think the answer is yes.

Guess: Time

[Farren]

Happy holidays, everyone.

[Farren]

/in, along with a shameless bump to go with it.

[Farren]

Spoiler:

BAND is the only one that comes immediately to mind.

Woodwinds are instruments - flutes, recorders, oboes, that sort of thing?

Maybe HAND - they're generally small enough to be handheld.
Churches do music, but generally that's organs and choirs ...

[Farren]

Might very well be to stay away from CHURCH. Both Music and Instrument could point there easily enough; Woodwind really doesn't.

Maybe RACKET? Kids learning to play recorders and such can make an awful lot of it ...

[Farren]

Yeah, ditto.

[Farren]

Racket

[Farren]

Do we want to go with HAND next?

[Farren]

Spoiler: thoughts

COOK is a gimme.
TIME - recipes almost always have some sort of time on them - cook/bake time, etc.
FILE / HOSPITAL / MEXICO all look weak, but I don't see anything left that's strong.

[Farren]

All three of us agree on COOK and TIME. Should we go ahead and queue those two up? I'd say in that order.

[Farren]

A possible third for Woodwind - CHEST? It's weak, but thinking along the lines of breath as what powers a woodwind, which comes from the chest.

Definitely not feeling confident of anything at this point.

[Farren]

Hm. Right now I'm leaning more towards Charles's reasoning - that Recipes was plural as a means of pointing to FILE over MEXICO.

[Farren]

Got any ideas for Woodwind? I'm really not happy with CHEST.

[Farren]

FILE

[Farren]

We've got one more guess, if we want to take a shot at woodwind.

I am leaning towards no, but am open to an argument about doing otherwise.

[Farren]

Some points outside the spoiler:
- We got a 2 clue when we need 3 to win. Our opponents only need 2 to win; odds are reasonably high if they get another turn they will seal it up. So I think we need to go for victory here.
- We're in kind of a unique situation in that our spymaster got replaced mid-game.
- While I don't know with 100% certainty, it's a reasonable assumption that furtiveglance was not able to confer with Nancy about previous clues. So he'd be in the dark just as much as we are in terms of what the previous clues meant.
- Normally I'd take a 2-clue at this point to either mean "You're on the right track; stick with your previous ideas," or "This is impossible to make a 3-clue for." That's less certain now.

Spoiler: treasure

CHEST is a gimme. Unfortunately, CHEST was also the only thing I had for Woodwind. (And now I'm wishing we'd gone for it. Sometimes caution is not the right answer. Alas.)
The only other thing I see is DWARF. Thinking D&D, roleplaying, that sort of thing - dwarves as portrayed in fantasy.
For a third Woodwind - I've got nothing. All I can do is eliminate some ideas.
I don't think it's Mexico - I think Not_Mafia had a good point that it'd be pretty easy to connect to Recipes - Nancy could have made it Recipes 4.
I don't think it's Church - I still think Woodwind (as opposed to just about any other sort of music clue) was an attempt to point away from Church specifically. Plus I think CHEST and DWARF are easy to clue together; BAND / RACKET / CHURCH gets music; FILE / COOK / TIME gets recipes; CHEST / DWARF gets a fantasy-based clue.
I don't think it's Spider - I think that's the next logical step in the fantasy department.
I don't think it's Contract - too likely to be a blue team word.

That leaves Hospital, Deck, Bermuda, Saturn, and Sock.

[Farren]

Eh, it happens. Thanks for replacing in!

So the actual puzzle was to link Chest, Mexico and Saturn, without hitting Bermuda. Ugh.

Maybe a 2 for Mexico and Saturn, and hope we go back to CHEST on the strength of Woodwind?
Ugly.

Best I can think of is ISLAND 0. That tells us "Definitely not Bermuda" and *maybe* we get to "places that aren't Bermuda" from that? I wouldn't like our chances, though.

Granted, CHURCH + BERMUDA would be tough too; I can't think of a good clue for those either. And I thought throuple was clued to specifically point *away* from Church.

[Farren]

/in to make the teams even if needed; any role.

[Farren]

CAR

CAR

is

blue

.

KID	WHIP	PART	CAR	BILL
PRESS	TRACK	GREEN	BED	JET
AUSTRALIA	BOOM	MOUNT	CHICK	MUG
RULER	LEPRECHAUN	DROP	TEMPLE	FORCE
BOLT	LASER	DUCK	FILE	VACUUM

Blue Clues	Red Clues
1/9	0/8
RACE - 2

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	DragonEater70	StrangerCoug, PookyTheMagicalBear, biancospino, lilith2013
RED TEAM	Farren	Menalque, Not_Mafia, furtiveglance, Datisi

[Farren]

TURRET, 3.

[Farren]

CONVERSION, 0.

[Farren]

PART

PART

is

blue

.

KID	WHIP	PART	CAR	BILL
PRESS	TRACK	GREEN	BED	JET
AUSTRALIA	BOOM	MOUNT	CHICK	MUG
RULER	LEPRECHAUN	DROP	TEMPLE	FORCE
BOLT	LASER	DUCK	FILE	VACUUM

Blue Clues	Red Clues
5/9	0/8
RACE - 2	TURRET - 3
DOMINATRIX - 3	CONVERSION - 0

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	DragonEater70	StrangerCoug, PookyTheMagicalBear, biancospino, lilith2013
RED TEAM	Farren	Menalque, Not_Mafia, furtiveglance, Datisi

[Farren]

CLASS - UNLIMITED.

[Farren]

Force
Ruler

FORCE is

neutral

.

KID	WHIP	PART	CAR	BILL
PRESS	TRACK	GREEN	BED	JET
AUSTRALIA	BOOM	MOUNT	CHICK	MUG
RULER	LEPRECHAUN	DROP	TEMPLE	FORCE
BOLT	LASER	DUCK	FILE	VACUUM

Blue Clues	Red Clues
7/9	3/8
RACE - 2	TURRET - 3
DOMINATRIX - 3	CONVERSION - 0
NONHUMAN - 2	CLASS - unlimited

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	DragonEater70	StrangerCoug, PookyTheMagicalBear, biancospino, lilith2013
RED TEAM	Farren	Menalque, Not_Mafia, furtiveglance, Datisi

[Farren]

Let's roll dice.

Press

Bed

PRESS

is

blue

BED

is

blue

BLUE

team wins!

KID	WHIP	PART	CAR	BILL
PRESS	TRACK	GREEN	BED	JET
AUSTRALIA	BOOM	MOUNT	CHICK	MUG
RULER	LEPRECHAUN	DROP	TEMPLE	FORCE
BOLT	LASER	DUCK	FILE	VACUUM

Blue Clues	Red Clues
9/9	3/8
RACE - 2	TURRET - 3
DOMINATRIX - 3	CONVERSION - 0
NONHUMAN - 2	CLASS - unlimited

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	DragonEater70	StrangerCoug, PookyTheMagicalBear, biancospino, lilith2013
RED TEAM	Farren	Menalque, Not_Mafia, furtiveglance, Datisi

[Farren]

Spoiler: Post mortem

TURRET: Initially, it was meant to point towards MOUNT (turrets themselves are mounted; people can mount turrets as well), LASER (what can I say, I play a lot of video games, where laser turrets are very much a thing), and JET. (think like fighter jets armed with machineguns. They aren't turrets per se, but was going for the conceptual link.)

I considered BOOM - thought, eh, it

kinda

fits, but only a relatively small number of turret types go BOOM - maybe turrets with heavy ordnance, but gun turrets don't really BOOM, laser turrets certainly don't BOOM, and if people start thinking about castle turrets, those don't BOOM either. So it might get guessed, but no way does it get guessed first.

*bzzzt*

TEMPLE - I

still

do not see a connection between Turret and Temple, even now. Y'all are going to have to explain this one to me. Fun fact: I had originally considered BOMB, 4 as an opener. BOOM doubtlessly gets guessed first, but that's okay. Follow up with COLOR, UNLIMITED to knock out Green / Mount / Laser / Drop / Jet, then CLASSROOM, 3 for KID / RULER / FILE. TEMPLE made that impossible, though.
PART - The only connection here that I saw was "Well, turrets do consist of parts - but so does just about everything else on the planet. Not really a threat here."

*bzzzt*

TEMPLE was in fact the assassin. So when I saw multiple people thinking it was a good guess, that pretty much forced me to give a zero clue. I hate giving a zero clue that just covers one clue, though. The word I thought was the second-biggest threat - had a decent amount of consensus and was wrong - was FORCE. So I thought, hm. INQUISITOR, CRUSADER, that sort of thing? Gets too close to RULER, which was one of ours. That line is out. CONVERSION, though - nice strong Temple connection, and when we're talking about that connection, it's the sort of conversion that is frequently done by FORCE.

I hadn't considered file conversion. I think when it comes to files, I think of different forms of the word. Convertor, converting, but not so much conversion.

So everyone who mentioned "Why give CONVERSION instead of BUILDING or RELIGION if it's just pointing at TEMPLE" was correct, but Not_Mafia was also correct when pointing out that nobody had been discussing FILE at all, so giving a zero clue to knock it out would be odd.

In retrospect, cluing NAVE, 0 or PEW, 0 might have been the better way to go. Given the discussion flow, I didn't think that PART would get pushed heavily - I thought only one person had endorsed it, and at least one other person had pushed back against it.

CLASS was a hail Mary. I had to retroactively change my initial thought behind Turret. Not_Mafia had suggested GREEN as a possibility for Turret. I didn't see a connection there either, but GREEN was in fact one of our words. And nobody had suggested JET, so that had to be reclued. So mentally rewrite Turret to MOUNT / LASER / GREEN, and CLASS covers the rest.
KIDs attend class.
RULERs (the measuring tool) can be found in a class. Also, Rulers (leaders) are at the top of social class. Double-connection.
People can DROP a class.
Any class imaginable lives and dies by FILEs. Plus they're both programming terms. Again, double-connection.
And finally, on a JET, you can fly first class. (Yes, it's a stretch, but hey, had to come up with something.)

TL;DR: listen to Not_Mafia, who is wise in all things.

[Farren]

/in to even out the teams.

[Farren]

Spoiler: Punishment ...

COURTs punish people.
BEATing someone is worthy of punishment.
WHIP: scourging is used as a punishment.
PIRATEs both punish and are deserving of punishment.
DEATH is the ultimate punishment.

COURT is probably my favorite here. Maybe WHIP as the second?

[Farren]

Guess: COURT

Guess: WHIP

Those were my top two, in that order. Let's see what that does first.

[Farren]

Spoiler: Spy vs Spy

AGENT and MOLE immediately come to mind here. CHINA is also a possibility.

At this point, I'd do something like AGENT > WHIP to start with, then figure out which of MOLE / CHINA / BEAT / DEATH / etc. is more likely to yield something positive.

[Farren]

Yeah, I agree. And this is our last guess either way; only get 3 on a 2 clue. So might as well make it official to keep the game moving in case of confusion.

Guess: Mole

Pass

[Farren]

Unlimited means: we get as many guesses as we like, and we *do* want to guess words that associate with the clue like normal. We just don't know how many words to guess for Tunnel.

Except: to the best of my knowledge, we're missing just two previously clued words. If we're going to get another clue later, why use unlimited? We could snag one missed word this turn and one missed word next turn.

Best guess: our spymaster doesn't think we're going to get another turn. If correct, that means we have to push for the win on this turn. Which means we should treat this as TUNNEL, 4 / PUNISHMENT, 2 with the caveat that we get to keep guessing until we get it wrong - or win.

[Farren]

I'm going to look over the grid later tonight - bit busy now, and I want to give this some thought.

[Farren]

Spoiler: Tunnel

TRAIN tunnels are a thing.
ALPS - I don't know if the Alps *specifically* have tunnels, but mountains in general do.
TORCH - tunnels are dark; light is required.

I'm having a hard time coming up with a fourth, though.
IRON, maybe, but that connects more towards trains than tunnels.
LINE, maybe, but again, it's more of a train thing than a tunnel thing. Tunnels are more likely than not to be in a straight line, but that's not universally true.

Going back to Punishment, I'm inclined to agree with BEAT / DEATH, especially given that COURT was wrong. I don't see a world where COURT is wrong (and an enemy word to boot) and PIRATE is right.

Ranking right now looks something like: Train > Beat > Death > Alps > Torch > ... ?

[Farren]

Definitely not queueing all that up to start, especially since we still need to figure out what else is a reasonable guess for tunnel. But we can get the ball rolling.

Guess: Train

Guess: Beat

[Farren]

I'm okay with guessing DEATH, but would like some more thoughts on Tunnel first.

[Farren]

Guess: Death

[Farren]

Unofficial update, just to keep track of things:

ALPS	MOLE	TRAIN	VET	WHIP
CAP	PAPER	FIGURE	STRAW	GOLD
BANK	TEMPLE	IRON	ANGEL	BEAT
LUCK	TORCH	GIANT	DEATH	PIRATE
AGENT	COURT	SHAKESPEARE	CHINA	LINE

Blue Clues	Red Clues
6/9	5/8
Punishment - 3	Casino - 3
Spy - 2	Pagoda - 2
Tunnel - Unlimited

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	DragonEater70	Whemestar, Farren
RED TEAM	lilith2013	biancospino, Merlyn

[Farren]

Still debating on just how far to push Tunnel. Despite my reasoning earlier, another possible tactic could be to apply pressure - to get us up to 7/9 or 8/9 and hope that it'll push the other team into trying to come up with a stretch that they can't cover.

It's a safe bet that Tunnel wasn't just intended as a singleton, at least.

Should we do Torch next or Alps? Or does anything else there stick out as particularly tunnel-y?

[Farren]

Guess: Torch

[Farren]

I'm okay with going for ALPS. That last one is the iffy one, though - Iron is a heck of a stretch.

[Farren]

The first big question: are we going for #9?

If we are, then we can start openly considering our opponents' remaining clue as well as our own.
If we aren't, then the less said about the clues in general, the better.

I've got at least one additional possible for Tunnel in addition to what we've already discussed.

[Farren]

LINE isn't a gimme. Tunnels can be set out in a line, but they aren't always. Plus LINE has casino equity (betting lines, line payouts on a slot machine).

STRAW is another possibility. Like a drinking straw - tunnels and straws are both hollow (always) and rounded (usually).

[Farren]

Pretty much any four-clue at this point is going to be a stretch. The question is which way does it stretch.

IRON and STRAW both at least have the virtue of not being likely to be hits for Casino.

[Farren]

We've got a few hours left to guess or pass.

If you want to make a guess before I go to bed tonight, go for it. If not, I'll make a guess at that point.

[Farren]

Guess: STRAW

[Farren]

TUNNEL was definitely a gold-star clue there! And Unlimited did exactly what it needed to do there - if lilith can give a decent 2-clue for SHAKESPEARE and VET, then we probably don't get another turn to hit STRAW. (And for the record, she absolutely can.)

GG everyone!

[Farren]

I can /in to even up the teams, but my availability over the next three days will be spotty. Feel free to reject this /in if the teams end up with an odd number of players, or if the game is starting shortly.

[Farren]

Without looking at the spoiler, here are my thoughts:
ROBIN - it's a bird. 'nuff said.
DUCK - ditto.
BAT - okay, not a bird, but still has wings.
KIWIs are birds, but I'm less certain about their wings.

Still, bats would be the explanation for why BIRD wasn't the clue. And I don't see anything else. Maybe SHIP, thinking along the lines of starships, but that's a stretch.

I'd say DUCK = BAT > ROBIN > KIWI.

[Farren]

Looking at the spoiler, we're agreed on the first three, at least. Shall we queue those three up? Any order preference, if yes?

[Farren]

Guess: DUCK

Guess: BAT

Guess: ROBIN

[Farren]

Works for me.

Guess: KIWI

[Farren]

4/4. Nicely done, everyone.

We have no outstanding clues. I'd say we should pass.

[Farren]

DICE	KIWI	DUCK	ENGINE	BANK
MOSCOW	BAT	HORSESHOE	POST	SCALE
SHOE	LASER	CLIFF	FILM	SKYSCRAPER
PISTOL	HAM	COOK	STICK	WAR
GREEN	BOW	FENCE	ROBIN	SHIP

Blue Clues	Red Clues
4/9	3/8
Winged - 4	Weapon - 3

Team	Spy Master	Members
BLUE TEAM	lilith2013	Merlyn, Farren
RED TEAM	biancospino	DragonEater70, Not_Mafia

It's

BLUE

team's turn.

[Farren]

Spoiler: Fishing...

When you catch a fish, you have to remove its SCALEs.
Also after catching a fish, you probably want to COOK it.
One logical place to go fishing is a river BANK.
A STICK might serve as a cheap substitution for a fishing rod.
With a long enough line, maybe you could fish off of a CLIFF overlooking the water?
Large-scale fishing might take place on a SHIP. Plus there's the general nautical connection.

If the clue were FISH and not FISHING, I'd also suggest HAM (as both are edible proteins), but given the verb, HAM doesn't really work.

COOK, SHIP, and SCALE are probably the three I feel the best about, in no particular order. The others are more of a stretch; it'd be easy enough to look at the word BANK and just think of the big building filled with money, for example.

[Farren]

Works for me.

Guess: Scale

Guess: Cook

Guess: Ship

And we'll see what happens after that.

[Farren]

Spoiler: Fishing, pt II

Given that we got a hit last time with SCALE, and yet we just got a repeated clue *with* a repeated number, that to me means only one realistic possibility: we were 100% on the right track last time, and we should go with what we were talking about last time.

When you catch a fish, you have to remove its SCALEs.

Also after catching a fish, you probably want to COOK it.

One logical place to go fishing is a river BANK.
A STICK might serve as a cheap substitution for a fishing rod.
With a long enough line, maybe you could fish off of a CLIFF overlooking the water?
Large-scale fishing might take place on a SHIP. Plus there's the general nautical connection.

If the clue were FISH and not FISHING, I'd also suggest HAM (as both are edible proteins), but given the verb, HAM doesn't really work.

COOK, SHIP, and SCALE are probably the three I feel the best about, in no particular order. The others are more of a stretch; it'd be easy enough to look at the word BANK and just think of the big building filled with money, for example.

Hope things have cooled off at work lilith!

Farren, my thoughts are the same as yours on everything except I didn't think of cliff.

I'm thinking scale, cook, and ship in that order and then idk. Stick or Bank but ugh, I'm not sure.

Scale and Cook have been disposed of; that leaves BANK, STICK, CLIFF, and SHIP.

[Farren]

Most excellent clues!

So which one of the fishing words wasn't intended on the first iteration of Fishing, 4?

[Farren]

That sounds like my cue. /in to guess.

[Farren]

Without looking at the previous spoiler, here are my thoughts:

Spoiler: Black keys are the assassin's tools ...

First layer: finding things that match with Piano, then avoiding them.
CONCERT: a place one would expect to find a piano. Confidence in avoiding this: high.
ORGAN: a keyboard instrument, much like a piano. Confidence in avoiding this: high.
OPERA: at least an indirect connection here - both connected to musical performances. Confidence in avoiding this: medium.
DANCE: starting to stretch things out here, but similar to OPERA. Confidence in avoiding this: low.

So I'd say we don't guess any of the above, and probably

never

guessing Concert or Organ.

Second layer: why did we get a zero clue here? Best guess: there's an advanced technique where you try to knock out a word that's preventing you from giving a super-awesome huge clue - and then we have to puzzle out what that super-awesome clue is.

Knocking out ORGAN opens up body parts ... but the board really doesn't have any? Closest thing it has are clothes / accessories - RING, PANTS, and there's no reason to use a fancy zero clue to take out ORGAN when you can just clue WEAR, 2.
Knocking out CONCERT ... looks a little more promising. STADIUM? RING (like a boxing ring)? ROW (think seating)? Maybe even COMIC? (like a comedian, not like comic book). Something like VENUE, 4, except that CONCERT looks really tasty with a VENUE clue.

Tentative thoughts: open with a guess of STADIUM and see what happens, since we have to guess something.

[Farren]

All right, so we agreed on at least three of the "don't guess" words, and the one we didn't was my low confidence word.

biancospino, if you see this before looking at my spoiler, try this first:

Do you see anything that looks like a big group of words that would be easy to clue if one or more of the don't guess words were missing?

Example:

Say that you want to clue HORSE, DOG, DUCK, and PANDA, but CAT is the assassin. ANIMALS, 4 would be a gimme, except that guessing CAT is death.
So instead, you clue FELINE, 0. That tells your partners: don't guess CAT, but also tells them - CAT is a huge obstacle, and the prize that it's blocking is something that's worth two clues. So we look for things that would be easy to pick off - and a big enough payoff - if it weren't for the CAT.

See if anything looks like it would follow that pattern, then check my spoiler for my thoughts on what does.

[Farren]

My confidence in DANCE is low, so I wouldn't put too much stock in it. Especially since typically, use of a 0 clue in this fashion is supposed to be pretty focused.

As far as the tactic goes: the rulebooks in Duet mention it. I don't think I've actually seen anyone try to do it, though. So this is a first, and it's entirely possible that it means something completely different.

So the question here is, where do we want to start - and assuming we get a hit, how much risk do we want to take after?

[Farren]

Let's see what happens!

Guess: STADIUM

[Farren]

So either we just got lucky or we're on the right track.

Between Comic and Row, I'm thinking maybe Comic? It ties in with both the Venue line of thinking and the Entertainment line of thinking.

[Farren]

Throwing DANCE into the mix isn't out of the question either, I think.

[Farren]

Without looking at the spoiler:

Spoiler: Garage ...

Weak connections:

SPACE (garage has it)
LAB (garage as a workshop?)
JACK (a car jack; car would be in a garage along with its jack)

I'd lean JACK as the strongest of the three.

[Farren]

Interesting that we got to LAB two different ways.

I've never heard of a flatblock, though; what is it?

[Farren]

Works for me. If those both work, we can re-think the PIANO 0 clue.

Guess: JACK

Guess: LAB

[Farren]

I'm okay with that. And we only get one more guess, so ...

Guess: Ring

Pass

(forced)

[Farren]

Game state thoughts:
- Getting an unlimited clue here means that we have at *least* two more Piano 0 words left to ID.
- It *may* also mean we're being encouraged to go for victory. In that case, we're looking at 2-3 Fancy words and 2-3 (not-Piano) words. There could also be overlap between those categories.

I want to spend a little time thinking about the exact possibilities.

Will post thoughts on Fancy later this evening.

[Farren]

Big question: are we in imminent danger of losing if we *don't* go for it?

Opponents have 4 words left, with one clued word outstanding.

[Farren]

Spoiler: Fancy

King, Ship, Atlantis are the three that come to mind, in no particular order.

[Farren]

I have to agree with no ORGAN ever, unless we get something that's dead-on.

SHIP and ATLANTIS are our only two points of alignment, and confidence in general is low.

DANCE at least has connection points back to Piano 0. And I could see dances being fancy. Maybe start there?

PEdit: Ooh. Yes, yes it is. PANTS is an excellent word, and we should start there instead.

[Farren]

Right now, I'm thinking STADIUM / RING / DANCE were all intended by Piano 0. There's what, 1-2 more?

LAB / JACK for Garage 2.

Fancy as a 2-3.

I think right now SHIP is where I'm at, over ATLANTIS?

Concert still feels too close to Piano. Opera slightly less close.

[Farren]

Spoiler: Box

I don't really see any connection to boxes in general here.

If we're talking about box *seats* though ... Row, Concert, Opera. Although then I've really got to wonder about why we got Piano instead of, say, Pancreas ...

[Farren]

Maybe I'm misremembering the term ... thinking of something along the lines of "box office" and tacking that onto seats somehow.

Still, something's coming to mind of a fancy sort of seat at a venue despite that.

I was going to say, why not just clue "seat" instead ... but you would definitely need a seat to play an organ.

[Farren]

Never heard of an airbox before.

[Farren]

Right now I feel most confident about Opera.

Like, if you picture a fancy opera hall. In addition to whatever seating is on ground level, there's usually seating on the upper floors - typically to the sides. Those sides are in boxed-off areas. I think those are the boxes being referred to.

Concert works for much the same reasons, although I think the connotation is stronger with Opera since concert venues can vary more - while a symphonic concert might have those seats, seating at a stadium concert probably wouldn't.

[Farren]

The only other thing I can think of is STRIKE - in baseball, a batter would take a strike in the batter's BOX.

But that's a stretch and a half at best.

[Farren]

Where do you stand on ROW, assuming we don't bomb out with OPERA?

[Farren]

Closing in on 48 hours. Will put in a guess of ROW if I don't see anything from biancospino in the next few hours.

[Farren]

Let's tackle it from this angle.

So far we have:
Piano, 0
Garage, 2
Fancy, Unlimited
Box, 3

Blue words so far: Lab, Stadium, Dance, Pants, Ring, Jack, Opera, Row.
We believe that we were intended to go for broke on Fancy, Unlimited - so every word has to fit in with one of the first three clues. Our missing word has to fit with both BOX and one of Piano (0) / Garage / Fancy.

Jack and Lab were Garage. We can forget about that clue. That leaves Piano (0) and Fancy.

How does Strike or Air fit with either of those clues?

[Farren]

That ... is a very good answer. Yes, that's right up there with fancy-pants.

[Farren]

So let's see if it all works together.
Piano 0 > Stadium, Ring, Dance, Opera, Row. (intending VENUE or SEAT without hitting ORGAN or CONCERT).
Garage > Lab, Jack
Fancy > Pants, Strike, Opera?
Box > Opera, Row, Strike.

PEdit> Fingers crossed.

[Farren]

Yeah, with the exception of Shakespeare, all the rest of those clues you were considering would have sent me to ATLANTIS well before STRIKE. Shakespeare probably doesn't send me to either one. Maaaybe I get to Shakespeare > writer > writer's strike?

Still, even if the two connections we found were unintended, the spymaster is usually the one responsible for unintended connections (unless they're *way* out there, and strike my fancy was solid, especially given that fancy-pants was intended). So you still get the credit.

[Farren]

Like, for example, in a world where Concert is ours and Organ is the assassin, giving Piano 5 as a clue and failing to recognize that "organs" are instruments as well as fleshy sacks of goo. That would be an unintended connection.

And yeah, biancospino was an excellent partner.

[Farren]

I'll do my usual /in if necessary to even out the teams. So if there's an odd number when signups end, feel free to bump me.