mini 2051: tree's dump blitz - game over !!!

[schadd_]

Bambi Jay has been lynched ! she was a

townie

thank u for replacing ! : ^ )

[schadd_]

prodding tonymontana and northsidegal

[Enter]

I feel so weak and powerless

[TonyMontana]

Sorry for making another dropin, it’s just the new years hustle, I’ll be back in business tonight

[Trekkie99]

Hi Bambi Jay!

Bambi Jay has been lynched ! she was a

townie

thank u for replacing ! : ^ )

Oof

[TonyMontana]

I'm not one to doubt our honorable judges, but this lynch seems peculiar.

Clemency's only activity was an RVS vote back and forth with trekkie, who in contrast with his activity has been the most active player so far.

Was hoping to have something more to go on after a lynch, but this is pretty much a complete zero in the info department.

[TonyMontana]

Then again, it's certainly a warning shot to any scum who think they can escape the wrath of a jury by hiding.

VOTE: northsidegal

We all need to accept that we have no power here. All we can do is have a discussion that hopefully leads the jury to the right choices.

Right off the bat northsidegal tries to diminish the power of the townside. The proposal to turn this into a 2:6 scenario by having the jury adhere to a vote is not only futile, but it is also essentially reducing what is kind of a 2:9 game.
Maybe it's just a lapse of logic, but it certainly is not pro-town.

Meanwhile she tries to have her cake and eat it too by questioning apthet's town read on xyzzy, while at the same time not only criticizing trekkie for essentially doing the same but also essentially starting the fakevote wagon on him.

To top it off, after the first prod on myself and darklighta (Enter), she airs the idea that maybe in this game the top posters are town and lurkers could be scum.
Worth noting that since that post the only ones who have been absent longer is either dead, replaced or on the jury. That's also a cake you can't have and eat.

[Taly]

havent thought of mafia much the past day becasue of new years (somewhat my fault, somewhat because of RL stuff)

will get to this tomorrow and reply to

Enter

where did

north

go?

[Taly]

[northsidegal]

This is not my first mafia game! northsidegal do you have a read on Taly?

i have a categorical tendency to townread people with taly's playstyle – the specific post links and direct questioning along with the general post style i tend to townread a lot, town or scum

that being said, i do think taly is town

[northsidegal]

I don't understand why "getting out of RVS" response is a scumclaim? I'm referring to 46. I don't see where he claimed scum, or if I'm reading correctly?

it was just my attempt at a joke (which never seem to be picked up on)

[northsidegal]

No I'm not worried about the jury potentially scumreading me. Why should I? And yes votes do matter because they help the jury come to their conclusions.

i still just don't feel like this is a town reaction. if you're town you

should

be worried about the jury scumreading you and your own mislynch – most townies, in my experience and myself included, tend to get pretty rattled when voted incorrectly or when there's a risk of their mislynch.

this sort of nonchalance just comes across as faked

[northsidegal]

I might be biased here, but that’s a terrible theory.

i like how you say this before i give a single ounce of reasoning for what i was saying. and when i say "i like", i actually mean "i really don't like".

is there some reason in particular you have to disagree, or are you just trying to argue with me?

the jury literally

can't

add their own opinion to the mix.

First off, technically they can after the second lynch. But I was merely talking about them adding their opinion in the form of votes.

For what it’s worth, which is probably nil in terms of info, I signed up late and was not aware of the option of opting in/out of jury duty.

okay? yes, i know that they can make a

single post

after the second lynch. that isn't a lot of help to us until the third day.

what's more, they can't "add an opinion to the mix" in terms of votes, because there's no votecount or anything that their votes show up on. their "opinion" is just the lynch.

i don't even understand what main point you're trying to make here and it makes me feel like you're just arguing points for the sake of arguing, without actually trying to sort.

[northsidegal]

I already said this to a degree; what do you think about my reads thus far?

i like your apthet townread and as i'm sure you know still somewhat disagree with your trekkie townread

elaborate on xyzzy town? i don't really disagree (i'm townleaning him), i just want to hear your reasoning

[northsidegal]

prodding tonymontana and darklighta

just gut i feel like this might be one of those games where most top posters are town and scum are in the lurkers

phoneposting right now so will respond in more depth when i can

what gives you that impression? imo in this sort of setup the mafia aren't necessarily incentivized one way or the other -- there are enough possible mislynches that scum shouldn't be the biggest lurkers, but in a normal game, you can tell whether the people who might vote you think you're lurker scum or just a town lurker by reading what they say about you. they don't have that luxury here.

-shrug-

it was really just kind of a gut ping. i've played in and seen a few games recently where that was the case, and while i was thinking about this game i just had that sort of feeling.

[northsidegal]

@TonyMontana

, I have a townlean on about 4 people so far that has been active in the thread, do you think I'm wrong with anything?

Probably wrong about something. :p

A bit busy just these days, due to holidays, but I’m gonna try to get some more substantive comments going tomorrow. To start with, I think your posts are good. That’s not a town read, just a good player read. Same goes for xyzzy, and to that point if you base your reads mostly on whether people are acting like town, you can quickly be a victim to good scum players. So I don’t put much stock in that in itself, but it can of course be supportive to other reads.
I think you make good points in defense of Trekkie, which I thought was getting a too quick push.

really don't like this post

expertly avoids actually really giving any read

[northsidegal]

apthet's theory on taly!scum

is

interesting, but i don't really think that scum actually do things like try to disrupt correct townreads as their primary strategy all that often. yes, it happens, but only in specific scenarios i think

again, could be being suckered by taly's playstyle, but i don't think so

[northsidegal]

TOWN
Taly
TonyMontana

apthet
northsidegal

DarkLightA
Clemency
Trekkie99
NOT TOWN

the bottom part of this might shift once replacements show up

explain tony being town?

I'll start. VOTE: NSG

Discuss something other than meta, pls.

i don't think that's a fair accusation. i brought up theory in the absolute beginning of the game when:
1) i felt it was important to talk about and
2) there was nothing else to talk about

past that point i

have

discussed real reads. explain how i haven't?

[northsidegal]

Right off the bat northsidegal tries to diminish the power of the townside. The proposal to turn this into a 2:6 scenario by having the jury adhere to a vote is not only futile, but it is also essentially reducing what is kind of a 2:9 game.
Maybe it's just a lapse of logic, but it certainly is not pro-town.

this isn't a 2:9 game. it just isn't. you can say that "oh, the jury can add their opinion!", but it just isn't true.

for all intents and purposes of the people

actually in the thread

, if there isn't at least

some

kind of connection between what the people want and what the jury decides, it's literally no better than playing 2:6 nightless with random lynching. that's already townsided – my proposal would turn it to 2:6 nightless

without

random lynching, a significant improvement.

if you were paying attention at all you would also notice that i later agreed that, rather than it following a strict vote, the jury should lynch out of a "lynchpool" of players that we come to agree upon. my initial proposal of following exactly a votecount was just that – an initial proposal.

it's just categorically false to say that what i was doing as anti-town. the

exact opposite

is true.

Meanwhile she tries to have her cake and eat it too by questioning apthet's town read on xyzzy, while at the same time not only criticizing trekkie for essentially doing the same but also essentially starting the fakevote wagon on him.

what? elaborate on this specifically, please?

[apthet]

Stuck to my phone for now! I have some new thoughts, will be happy to share in the morning.

[northsidegal]

i mean, even beyond it being pro-town, i'll still also argue that it just makes it a more enjoyable game if the jury follows what we're saying

it's really not enjoyable to play a game where there's no connection between what you do in thread and what actually happens, and you don't just have to take it from me:

I feel so weak and powerless

[Enter]

I honestly just wanted you to post. I'll look over what you've said.

UNVOTE:

[TonyMontana]

this isn't a 2:9 game. it just isn't. you can say that "oh, the jury can add their opinion!", but it just isn't true.

for all intents and purposes of the people

actually in the thread

, if there isn't at least

some

kind of connection between what the people want and what the jury decides, it's literally no better than playing 2:6 nightless with random lynching. that's already townsided – my proposal would turn it to 2:6 nightless

without

random lynching, a significant improvement.

I don't understand why you keep calling the lynches random. At the very least the jury is taking our discussions into account. We don't have votes, they don't have a voice. We, as a town, are their voice. And in turn they act as our lynching jury. We don't need to communicate to cooperate.

And my response was that instead of the jury going by our votes, they could just as well count up the votes, and then add their own (without neither disregarding the vote or overruling it).

It's all very moot, because even if we could convince the jury to follow any kind of plan, we don't have a voting system, and our voting behaviour reflects it.

it's really not enjoyable to play a game where there's no connection between what you do in thread and what actually happens

I just think you are missing the point. There is a connection, at least I believe there is, and that's what make it enjoyable. The first lynch was a dud, but I believe when the jury lynches you, we will have a lot more to talk about. Like trying to figure out who your scumbuddy is.
Hell, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, let's say you flip townie. Then we'll have to discuss whether getting you lynched was a scum plan by me.
Point being that any of these discussions will inform the jury and that's a direct connection. And you seem to want to avoid that connection. Take agency away from the jury, leave us to fight amongst ourself.

I say the jury should show both their power and ability to listen to reason, lynch northsidegal.
Lynching me would probably accomplish the same, but would only delay the inevitable.

[Trekkie99]

I'm not one to doubt our honorable judges, but this lynch seems peculiar.

Clemency's only activity was an RVS vote back and forth with trekkie, who in contrast with his activity has been the most active player so far.

Was hoping to have something more to go on after a lynch, but this is pretty much a complete zero in the info department.

My thoughts exactly.

[Trekkie99]

i mean, even beyond it being pro-town, i'll still also argue that

it just makes it a more enjoyable game if the jury follows what we're saying

it's really not enjoyable to play a game where there's no connection between what you do in thread and what actually happens, and you don't just have to take it from me:

I feel so weak and powerless

Is it just me or do I keep hearing this? Of course the jury is listening to us! What do you think they're doing? Ignoring our discussions and throwing a dart at a board and lynching however the dart lands on? I feel like your upset that you have no control of the situation or the jury. Because as town this shouldn't be a concern knowing the jury is of course town. Do you think the jury has poor judgement?