Mini 2056: Ballroom Blitz (Game Over)

[Moment]

Ego.

Not too many familiar faces here.

[Moment]

Optimal strategy seems to me to be to force the two scummiest players to pair up so we can get a double lynch.

VOTE: McQueen

[Moment]

Huh. On further reflection, this is a lot more similar to FakeGod's dancing setups than I had thought about before.

<<< Where do you think I got the idea from? >>>

Maybe I should've signed up for that other game, too.

[Moment]

VOTE: Eragon

[Moment]

VOTE: Eragon

VOTE: moment
≖‿≖

Bad vote
feeIs a bit Iacking as for pressure and I don’t remember Moment trying to interact with anyone in any other post
I mean, if they reaIIy care about generating content, they shouId try a bit harder imo
setup discussion obviousIy doesn’t count

Lacking for pressure? Given the circumstances, I'm not sure there was any way I could have more believably pressured someone. Saying something akin to "caught scum" as Darkwing was doing is unlikely to be taken seriously. I think a naked vote was the most possible pressure I could have exerted in that situation.

Try a bit harder doing what? I don't believe that I can generate content that I can read

other people

with.

They

have to do that.

In the interest of fairness, though, getting this kind of response was the express purpose behind my vote. I cast the most stereotypical "scummy" vote possible: a naked vote that was the third on a wagon.

---

Hello

[,,,]

VOTE: Eragon

actuaIIy, same here, but that vote was a bit better, cuz it diiiiiiiiid kinda make the wagon Iook more "serious"
or Iike, uh, big enough
or idk

Mind elaborating on this a bit more?

[Moment]

I actually agree with you here, moment's vote came post-entrance, so IMO it was meant to be taken as a serious vote? And without having anything to back it up and just like, dropping that vote.

Vedith was right on his entrance, and it puts more of a "pressure" on the wagon, but also he stayed around and talked about reasons and stuff so a bit better than moments

Yes, I wanted you to take it as serious. It's notable to me that you ignored it up until someone else called it out as being scummy. Why is that?

Do you expect someone casting a vote with the intention to make someone nervous to explain as such? Seems like that'd defeat the point, to me. Either way, my leaving the thread was just because I was going to bed, anyways.

---

But then, c0nsidering that they weren’t interested in memes, idrk what t0 make 0f that v0te

Erag0n’s wag0n was cIearIy a meme
the wag0n might have been I0ud, but n0 reaI arguments were made f0r him being scum
it was reaIIy cIear t0 me that it was a wag0n with n0 future and that putting “pressure” 0n it w0uId n0t pr0gress the game

You've proven yourself wrong.

Iike, c’m0n, y0u can’t “v0te f0r pressure” with0ut saying anything new, when the main arguments I00k Iike that ^

N0w then, m0ment’s v0te was bare, s0 I’m assuming they weren’t attempting t0 “interact” and “have fun” with the 0ther pIayers
It kinda feIt Iike a seri0us v0te
And it feeIs weird that a pIayer wh0 cares t0 make a seri0us wag0n and “activeIy pr0gress the game” w0uIdn’t try t0 make their 0wn push in this situati0n

Nobody feels nervous from a single RVS vote placed on them.

I don't understand what you're trying to get across here when you say that "no real arguments were made for him being scum". Could you elaborate on your point there?

Rn I’m reading it as them “awkwardIy trying t0 c0ntribute”, which c0uId Iead t0 them being:
-dis0riented t0wn
0r
-scum wh0’s used t0 “being pr0-active earIy 0n as t0wn”, and just tried t0 “get the j0b d0ne” with0ut actuaIIy caring ab0ut it

Iike, again, I can’t say that I’m actuaIIy c0nfident in this read 0r anything, but it’s just sth that pinged me earIy 0n and I think it’s g00d en0ugh t0 p0ke int0 it a bit

That's quite an in-depth theory from such little content. Would you really qualify a naked vote as an "awkward attempt to contribute"? I don't see how a naked vote could indicative of either "disoriented town" or an attempt to be pro-active. At face value, a naked vote seems to me to be the antithesis of an attempt to contribute or an attempt to be pro-active.

[Moment]

So if you said that I was scummy and so was LabRat (for example) and you would lynch us both, then what motivation would I have to pair with LabRat, as a townie? I just wouldn't.
It's a good idea on paper, but not only would it not happen from a townie or scum side, as you stated last it can easily go wrong.

If you're the townie who refuses to pair, it's likelier that you'd be the one to get lynched if a gladiate were to happen. It's also possible that anyone refusing to offer a dance would simply get lynched themselves. At least if you're getting lynched, you can potentially take down a scumread with you, or force a gladiate to potentially save yourself.

I can see the argument you're making here, but I don't believe that the possibility that people may not always agree is a reason to disregard the strategy as a whole. At the very least, I would prefer

some

kind of strategy to just random pairing. It's been made clear that this is a scumsided setup – I'd like to use all of our available resources.

Besides – winning

is

fun.

[Moment]

I actually agree with you here, moment's vote came post-entrance, so IMO it was meant to be taken as a serious vote? And without having anything to back it up and just like, dropping that vote.

Vedith was right on his entrance, and it puts more of a "pressure" on the wagon, but also he stayed around and talked about reasons and stuff so a bit better than moments

Yes, I wanted you to take it as serious. It's notable to me that you ignored it up until someone else called it out as being scummy. Why is that?

Do you expect someone casting a vote with the intention to make someone nervous to explain as such? Seems like that'd defeat the point, to me. Either way, my leaving the thread was just because I was going to bed, anyways.

[Moment]

and another one bites the dust

also, you could say anything? you dont have to say "im trying to make you nervous"
you don't have to say "for pressure"
you can make a meme out of it, but still vote
You can come up with *some reason* for a vote, even if its stupid

IMO naked votes are the

least

pressurable type of votes

I don't see how that quote is meant to answer the question "If you agree with labrat that my vote was bad, why was it that you didn't say anything about it until she brought it up?"

Yes, I could have done any of those things. What's your point? Are you attempting to give me constructive criticism on better ways to pressure people? Does that imply that you believe I'm town?

---

I'll wait to hear what Moment has as a reason for the vote before I discuss my possible get out of dodge reasons.

Just encase you missed this part Moment. I want to discuss a bit further over this but I want it clear on what your intentions were with the vote.

Oh, thought I answered this earlier. My intentions were to get something to happen. My vote was intentionally stereotypically scummy in a way that I figured would get someone to jump on it. And of course there's the obvious intention of simply jumping on a wagon.

[Moment]

Why is it weird to end the greeting stage of a game?
Would the first person who tried to change the direction of a meme game be under the radar as at least looking more scummy? And if yes, why?

Their other posts are fully NAI other than 40. I also cannot personally tell from 4 post what type of play they are given that 2 are more waste posts so I won't directly argue that as of yet with the assumption you have read previous games of theirs or have seen them.

T0 answer y0ur p0st, I didn’t Iike the directi0n 0f m0ment’s push

Did it pr0gress the game? N0, it didn’t

It was a bad directi0n t0 push in and I th0ught a pIayer wh0 Iegit cared sh0uId have n0ticed that, which is why I decided t0 p0ke there

Again – you're proven yourself wrong.

It seems like you're asserting that I should for some reason have agreed with your opinion that it was a "bad direction to push in" — whatever that means — and thus made a mistake in naked voting Eragon instead of some other play. Why was it a "poor direction" in the first place, and why should I have agreed with you on that?

---

i want to post something cool and helpful but i don't really know what to say

What d0 y0u think 0f the current wag0ns?

v0ting w0uId be great btw

i don't really feel a need to vote rn though. it'd just be pretty random

I townread this.

[Moment]

I don't believe that I can generate content that I can read

other people

with.

They

have to do that.

y0u can interact with them
Iike, ask questi0ns and stuff
0r try t0 get s0me t0naI reads
pIacing a bare v0te 0n a pureIy j0ke wag0n is n0t the right way if y0u reaIIy want t0 d0 stuff im0

I agree entirely in that interactions and asking questions are perfectly fine ways to read people – that is, when you have something to ask questions

about

. As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing game relevant possible to be extracted from questioning in the beginning of a game. That'd just be random questioning. I've skipped RVS in pretty much every game I've played except my one scumgame.

I disagree entirely with your last line. There's really not much of a difference between a "joke wagon" and a wagon started for some flimsy reason in the beginning of a game.

---

I was sh0wing the differences in between y0ur and ved’s v0tes
Iike, y0u pressured a smaII, j0ke wag0n, which seemed t0taIIy inefficient t0 me
And they pressured a j0ke wag0n, which was just a tinsy bit bigger, which actuaIIy made the v0te make m0re sense im0
It d0esn’t actuaIIy give me any s0rt 0f read th0ugh
0r at Ieast n0t anything that w0uId Iast I0ng

It seems strange to me to examine the motivation for two actions and see that they're the same, and yet take a differing opinion due to the timing. I suppose I could see the argument, however.

---

After the response from Moment, I feel that they used the most obvious reason to clear up the reason.
As I said already, the reason given that it was to push the game and to see any reactions were already in discussion and held above Moment's head.

Moment doesn't get any positive argument from my side with the answer given.

It did progress on the game, but obviously in a way that Moment probably didn't expect or what given that the attention is currently on them.

Do you believe that I saw what people were positing as my motivation and simply took that as my answer?

As for your last line, this is about what I expected, actually. It was always going to be either Eragon or me who came under suspicion, either him for a potential overreaction or me for my vote.

[Moment]

I townread this.

I think it's reasonable. Counterintuitive as it may seem, I think most scum would shy away from making a comment as actively non-participatory as that one. (Don't mistake what I'm saying for "too scummy to be scum" – that's not what I'm saying.)

In all honestly, that's probably my only real read so far. I have a slight suspicion on Eragon for his ignoring of my vote until Labrat brought it up as scummy, but apart from that the rest has mostly been spinning my wheels. I'd have skipped RVS and all of this, but this is a blitz game and all.

---

I don't understand what you're trying to get across here when you say that "no real arguments were made for him being scum". Could you elaborate on your point there?

I was saying that it was pure RvS
it was n0t an argument, just trying t0 expIain why I th0ught that seri0usIy v0ting there "in a situati0n Iike that" was weird

I suppose I'm a serious person, as I'm certain you've surmised.

[Moment]

Again, maybe so. However, why do you think that the only 2 out comes from your vote is pressure on you or pressure on Eragon?

Those were the two most probably outcomes I thought of. Something else entirely could've come up, of course, but that's what I was thinking when I made the vote.

[Moment]

So given that you slightly suspect Eragon, what's your view on A) LabRat kind of defending Eragon in the discussion and even posting 81? B) Me following up a blank vote after you.

I expect people who seem like they're friends to defend each other. Apart from that I'm undecided as to Labrat, both individually and in relation to Eragon. I suppose I will say that I expect the situation of Labrat bringing up my vote and Eragon agreeing more often points to Lab town and Eragon scum than anything else.

I like that you followed up on me, but I don't believe it's particularly AI.

[Moment]

I didn't "gambit". I voted someone because I wanted something to happen.

[Moment]

If y0u think it W0UIDN’T,
expIain it t0 me pIease

I said that

“sheeping weak wag0ns

<

making c0ntributive pushes”

and that

“I was expecting sth m0re fr0m a pIayer wh0 cares ~ gut ~ y0u”

, meaning that there is a chance that the v0te was scum-m0tivated
If y0u think the read is weak,
Sure! Yeah, it is!

But y0u seem t0 put a I0t 0f eff0rt int0 taIking with me ab0ut it and it feeIs kinda weird
Did my p0st give y0u any s0rt 0f read 0n me? if s0, eIab0rate 0n it pIease

Sure, in a vacuum I can agree with you that it's better to make some strong push than to naked vote some random wagon. I don't believe that was an option when I voted, and thus I didn't.

Yes, I've put effort into talking about this. There's nothing else to do except talk about this.

I don't think you're all that likely to be scum.

[Moment]

Goodness, forgot this was a Blitz. 21 hours left?

[Moment]

What makes you think Aronis' timing was strategic rather than real-life based? It seemed he had something going on with his debate tournament. What would it matter whether he votes you before TGP rejected the offer or not?

[Moment]

At first glance, I'm not sure I'm particularly happy with either of these options.

As scum, the best position to potentially gladiate someone in is if you have confidence that you can win. The argument could be made that AP chose an easy mislynch target in TGP, but I'm not certain if AP was townread enough to confidently win that. Of course, what matters is whether or not AP

believes

that he could win or not. I'm not sure if that's the case.

FTR: There are currently FIVE players who have posted less than me so far. I don't even get why Nico isn't included in your "could lynch this", but whatever. What's done is done.

This is also something I feel as if I should be able to glean motivation from.

I do feel as though this position, as AP has worded it, is more likely to come from scum than town. In the world where AP is scum and Nico is town, this could very easily be AP frustrated at being scumread when he believes he deserves to be townread for his post count as compared to someone being townread who has posted less than him. My expectation for how town would act in this scenario would be to act more questioning as to the reasons behind why NicoRobin is not considered as a potential lynch. That being said, being frustrated in this manner could still come from town.

------

Why golden over really anyone else?

Since you put it this way, why the hell not? What does TGP have over "anyone"?

P-Edit: Because

HE VOTED ME BEFORE WAITING TO SEE IF TGP ACCEPTS OR NOT

. Are you reading?

What matters is he won't lynch his own buddy. If he thought TGP isn't worth lynching why jump the wagon, just in case TGP does accept?

In fact, Aronis' vote is scummy regardless, so I have been

kind

to call him scum

if

TGP is scum, when I should have said he is scum. Period.

Yes, I noticed that Aronis voted you before seeing if TGP accepted or not. I don't understand the relevance. Does doing this offer some kind of benefit to scum that I'm not seeing?

Did Aronis state that he doesn't believe TGP is worth lynching? It could simple be that he scumreads you more than TGP.

I don't understand your emotional reaction.

[Moment]

Oops, I answered someone else's questions.

[Moment]

Something interesting to note: TGP keeps accidentally leaving multiquotes in his posts, and yet he never seems to actually make any posts with intentional use of the multiquote feature.

Perhaps he's quoting posts into a private thread? Realistically, probably not.

------

Okay, great. I can't understand what's going on in the game right now. The posts are barely readable. That being said, I went through Lab's ISO, and all of it strikes me as someone who isn't really doing anything to help the gamestate, but trying very hard to look like he is. I'll make a case in a bit, but for now VOTE: LabRat01.
I don't see anybody trying to develop a consensus on the dance mechanic, but people should be dancing as much as possible. We need those PTs.

I do think town is more likely than scum to be frustrated with an "unreadable" game thread, or with various spam. I would imagine that scum confronted with the same problem would simply find the easiest thing they could sheep and put little effort into actually attempting to read the thread. A frustration with an unreadable thread does show an actual desire to

read the thread

in the first place, which I believe is town-indicative.

------

LabRat to me is looking like she's playing with antitown motivation. As scum, the point in this game is to lynch any townie - it doesn't matter who. I see her "working hard", and her posts are good. But there's no town motivation in them. She doesn't seem like she's trying to scumhunt - she seems like "hey, look, I'm town!" by posting a ton of content, maybe, but look at her posts. The intent of those posts is not to scumhunt. The intent of those posts is not to help town find scum, because in that bod of posts, there is a air of knowing, being informed, of whom town is. That's the vibe I'm getting. But none of this matters NOW, for the simple reason that...
AP offered to dance with me, and RIGHT NOW I hate that. So... no. I can't see the town motivation in that. That is blind sheeping. No.

Reject Dance

VOTE: AP

I don't feel like much thought was placed into the rejection of the dance offer here, which does make me consider it scum-indicative.

Even if you consider that someone offering to dance with you is scum, it is still the case that if you pair with them you will become lovers with them. If you believe your lynch is imminent, pairing with someone whom you believe to be scum is actually your best course of action. If you reject the offer and lose the gladiate, it's the worst possible outcome: you get lynched and your scumread lives. Even further, pairing with someone who is scum will presumably mean that, as long as you aren't lynched, you will never be killed during the night. Given that, I think "this dance offer was scummy and so I'm going to reject it" is an oversimplified thought process.

@TGP

, I would appreciate if you could go a little more in-depth as to your thought process when it came to rejecting the dance offer. As it stands, it doesn't seem to me like you put much thought into it at all.

This is a large point of contention that I'd like resolved before deciding where to vote.

[Moment]

Well what does that leave you to conclude moment? Do you want to do a d1 no lynch?

Not at all. Any lynch in this situation — and in most situations in general — is better than no-lynch.

It's not inherently a problem to lynch town Day 1 such that no-lynching would be preferable. Finding very high information Day 1 lynches is how you go on to win the game afterwards.

[Moment]

Currently, my top suspects for scum are mcqueen and Eragon. Eragon I've already talked about. I see no reason that anyone should be townreading him and would like anyone who is doing so to explain. I believe his sheeping Labrat calling my vote scummy was not a real thought he had, but was simply opportunistic. His justification for ignoring my vote initially and yet later claiming to agree that it was scummy doesn't stand up. His response in 148 to my questions makes it seem as if he is townreading me, and yet everything he said pointed towards the opposite.

Finally, I find this post to be simple "reactions" to posts in the thread rather than any sort of in-depth thought. Content for the sake of content, so to speak. I have a tendency to scumread this sort of thing, and it has a tendency to be scum-indicative in my experience.

161 addressing post 130 cause I missed it the first time, when I was making the posts it was still basically SoD and I was just in that “meme mode.” I addressed the vote with “Another one bites the dust” and just like moved on. When I woke up I was re-reading the thread and agreed with labrat. So yes, I did acknowledge the vote before, and didn’t call it out right away, but that was just my state of mind Day Start/Next day.
175 I mean, its kinda the obvious explanation? They aren’t really gonna like, come out and say “oh yeah I naked voted because I wanted to act like I was doing something progressive” are they? I still think the vote was slightly awkward, but overall the explanation is NAI just because its the obvious one from either alignment.
180e*r*agon
198 I think the anger is towny here
200 for one, half of these aren’t even spam, maybe more. For two, do you have anything you actually want to add or did you just feel like quoting lab rat’s ISO and saying he’s spamming?
204Try getting up at 5:30 every weekday to get to school on time
205 then what were the quotes for? Especially given as they are all from labrat?
208 but if scum decided to kill like, the towniest players, for example, they also have to kill the “scummiest” players. The “scummiest” players are the ones likely to get mislynched if they are town, so that forces scum to either kill mislynch targets or leave the “towniest” people alive.
209 same
210literally this
211Why do you think that rat is scummier than me?
212 No, because then if the “scummiest” person is town, they are a likely mislynch, which is a lot worse than them dying at night.
213 That could work too, especially as days are shorter so its harder to have strong townreads.
214 Duck, was there a reason for re-quoting this vote?

-----
As for mcqueen, I find his promising of a catchup and then losing motivation slightly scum-indicative, and I find his setup speculation in 369 to be rather aimless. He doesn't use his speculation to observe anything regarding the players in the game, he just leaves it at that.

[Moment]

Okay, so huge initial concern with DD saying both lynches could be town, voting both, but not really interacting with them in any meaningful way to discern their alignment.

You don't feel as if any consideration should be given to the fact that there are two different people posting under that account?

It seems to me like the criteria you're applying makes sense for an individual, but not for a hydra.

[Moment]

I literally just replaced in and am reading and catching up, but I saw you were here and wanted to get in some IRT. I've been in the game what, 30 minutes? 45?

Yeah but right now you're exclusively pushing someone who mechanically cannot be lynched today so I don't really know what you're doing right now other than shading someone who has no idea who to lynch here

Do you think this is somehow scummy? It's clear that, town or scum, Slaxx is going off of one of the first things that he saw entering the game. For a replacement, I believe that's reasonable.

Even further, simply because someone cannot be lynched today does not mean that voicing your thoughts regarding them is pointless. I've just spent far more words than Slaxx has explaining my suspicion of Eragon and mcqueen, neither of whom should be lynched. Am I scum for doing this?

[Moment]

#151 Moment's "Does that imply that you believe I'm town" is kind of a cheap push on Eragon, I feel like as town I talk assuming most people are town, because they are.

It doesn't make sense to speak to someone whom you apparently scumread as if they are town. It was also a question moreso than a push – a question that has remained unanswered as of yet.

------

request dance with Slaxx

either this or I replace out

...Why?

[Moment]

Calm down.

[Moment]

Compose yourself. Compose your thoughts.

Laying out your reasoning allows both for other people to better understand what you're saying and where you're coming from, and better allows you to see any flaws in your own thought.

[Moment]

Moment, what are your reads of AP and TGP?

I'm not sure I have much to say on those two beyond what I've said in 391 and 397. I'd like to hear a bit more from both before deciding where to vote.

If you have any specific questions regarding those two, I'd like to hear them.

------

I haven’t been motivated to read the thread

Also, the more I say I will and don’t end up doing it, the worse my slot looks. Having a dance partner to discuss things with makes it easier to get into the game

I can understand having a partner being a solution to not being motivated to read the thread. I don't understand why you chose Slaxx or why you seem to believe that he'd accept your offer.

Is having a PT truly that much different than just talking with someone in the main game thread?

[Moment]

And you didn't consider the potential ramifications of his refusing your offer?

[Moment]

This is the only time I'll say something like this.

You guys are being idiotic when it comes to this scum PT discussion.

Scum have a PT. I would put almost no weight on the idea that they don't. I dare anyone to try to find the last game that scum

didn't

have a private thread. It's not a slip. It's a reasonable assumption.

If by some miracle scum

don't

end up having a PT, I would be very confident that the people who proposed that as an idea would be scum themselves—again, scum having a private thread is a reasonable assumption for literally anyone to make.

[Moment]

I believe that TGP's role is real. I don't believe that it makes him conftown, although I feel as if it's more likely to be town than not.

I don't think we have a particularly good chance of lynching scum today.

[Moment]

I'm still not entirely convinced that it's the correct play.

I don't believe TGP is likely to be scum, but I'm not sure if my townread on him is to the degree that I'd rather no-lynch.

I'm open to being convinced.

[Moment]

VOTE: No Lynch

[Moment]

You can check pre-emptively anyways. (The answer is no.)

[Moment]

Scumreads?

[Moment]

Not sure how much I like Eevee's quick pairing up to dance.

I'll respond more in-depth in the morning.

[Moment]

I'm not voting Aronis.

I also don't particularly think redtea is scum.

VOTE: McQueen

[Moment]

I think both Aronis and redtea are low-posting, low-hanging fruit but I don't think there are many actual valid reasons to scumread them.

[Moment]

For redtea especially, "I don't townread this person" isn't really a reason to scumread someone in a blitz game when they're among the lowest posters. That's just a logical consequence.

I don't think there are really valid reasons to scumread her, and I think 722 is fairly town-indicative.

[Moment]

If you want to last minute flashwagon someone that isn't McQueen while I'm not here, I'd go for Eragon/Eevee.

[Moment]

Rather lynch a lover pair.

[Moment]

Rather lynch a lover pair.

...

Okay but the scummiest people aren’t pairing up so that’s convenient for someone who wants to avoid lynching scum.

What you just said to me is "you don't consider the people that I consider the scummiest to be the scummiest, and that is suspicious". Which is somewhat valid, but I just want to clear up the exact meaning behind what you said.

------

Rather lynch a lover pair.

this is not smart, unless one of the people in the pairs is confirmed scum

And why's that? Because I'm fairly certain that getting two town-controlled kills is better than one.

------

Rather lynch a lover pair.

This is a joke right?

I'm not laughing.

[Moment]

Extend deadline

[Moment]

Rather lynch a lover pair.

...

Okay but the scummiest people aren’t pairing up so that’s convenient for someone who wants to avoid lynching scum.

I'm a vig. I can only shoot unpaired people. I'm going to shoot Kokichi. Yes, I shot Vedith.

Scum, please kill me tonight.

[Moment]

Not sure why that quote was there.

[Moment]

I don't think you all heard me when I said that I can't shoot pairs and I'm going to shoot Kokichi.

[Moment]

Slaxx, I think you're better than to take the absolute most level 0 conclusion than this:

My tinfoil hat is saying koki/moment/???

So no, I'm not going to do that.

[Moment]

None of you are going to tell me what to do. None of you also seem to be reading anything that I say when it comes to my reads.

Apologies if I'm wrong.

[Moment]

Oh no! Potentially lynching

two

townies? How terrible?

You know what would be even better than potentially lynching

one

townie, though? Potentially lynching zero!

Let's vote no-lynch, everyone!

[Moment]

That's great. Can't wait to be dead. Sorry to the mod and town for playing poorly.

[Moment]

Not sure why I thought I was suited for a blitz game.