Starcraft Mafia: Legacy of the Void [Game Over]

[Krazy]

Everyone is of course welcome to come to my MafiaScum discord server, The Cow Level, named after the dead PT from Starcraft 1: https://discord.gg/pFwKBHb

A big thank you to everyone who has played in the Starcraft: Mafia series, and an extra big shoutout to schadd, mastina, and Ankamius for design review and co-modding this series!

[Alchemist21]

Good game everyone.

[popsofctown]

I mean later you outright killed me. But this is a paper and pencil mechanics aspect, why did you play that way?

[popsofctown]

Krazy ninja'ed me.

Total indian giver on that 1-shot ninja the mafia didn't use I guess

[Alchemist21]

Heyo everyone

Heyo everyone

And then this scum makes an appearance.

Still dead I legit caught scum off their first post.

Now you’ve got to go a step further and catch scum

before

they make their first post.

[Cerberus v666]

Subject: Legacy of the Void -- Dead PT

it's angleshooting and technically bad faith but it's not against the rules so I'd suggest we just sit here and sneer at them for it

it's also correct lmao

That's the thing: he doesn't know that he's right. He could be wrong as far as he knows. And yeah, he could be because it's not an accurate thing. But since we know he's right, it looks uncool, but I think it's cool.

So on the topic of Liger_Zero's login time check thing:

1) Yeah, pretty shitty thing to do and I am going to sneer at him for it.
2) We only talked in the discord, and Volxen posted our night actions, so any reason they had for checking the game during the night was not related to their alignment. *shrug*

Re: My role: As I said, it was fairly balanced, and moderately swingy.

Scum had a decent bit of luck with the kill targets preventing the vigs, but the vigs could easily have been aimed at town, making the main benefit of them the clear that RCE could have received.

Some degree of redirection should have been included in the scum team, and/or the gunsmith should have only triggered on bullet killing powers, so...only triggers on those that RCE has vended, or RCE himself. Masons+2x cop+gun vendor that's *VERY* difficult to argue is scum...is a lot of clears for town to have mechanically, without any actual means of defending against any of them except a one shot godfather.

Overall though, in spite of these balance questions, the game was almost wholly via dayplay, and large D1 play at that. The guilties came at the slots they did because our teams D1 was pretty atrocious. I love you guys, and don't mean to offend, but it was just low activity from half the team, which never really got better, a "suspect" slip from another member that wisdom did his best to handle, but is hard to fix, and me...trying to be so far out of my town range that I could guarantee getting lynched whenever I wanted, while also being terrible at controlling associatives etc, because I never plan to die as scum, unless it's as the last lynch.

We could have done better at ensuring liger was lynched, but given pops role I think that's excusable...though volxen was pretty adamant that if we didn't get the liger lynch that day, it wouldn't be happening, and they were right.

Not really sure what else we could have done the last two day phases though(other than my stated moongrass NK line) for day play to redeem the hydra and volxen slots.

[Nancy Drew 39]

We did you kill us N1?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why did you kill us N1?

[RadiantCowbells]

I would have killed you N1

[Nancy Drew 39]

I would have killed you N1

Why and flattery gets you almost anywhere.

[Krazy]

Ehh, Alchemist had a scum immune to GS check (Hydra, before promotion), a scum with one-shot immune to cop check (Volxen), a town miller (Boon), a town gunsmith miller (A50), and someone who turns literally anyone into gunsmith millers day 3 (RCE). There was also a risk of town utilities working against each other if RCE had checked the alienized target n1 (which was impossible in this iteration since you guys lynched Zeratul), or if the Even night RB had hit him.

I think if I added a scum roleblock shot I would have needed to make Amon not immune to lynch in lylo/mylo or something

The other question is whether the VT count or Vorazun (even night roleblocker) could have changed, as those were some of the late adjustments in the design process (I added Vorazun because mastina was worried Cerb's role was too strong, and then added two more vts to give the setup a bit more stability. I think both were good calls.) I do think this game ended up being pretty close toward the mid section so I don't think the setup was particularly townsided. I think your suicidal lynch would have been a lot better on a stronger power role, and you might have been better off holding. Lynching pops --> committing to fast bus I think overall was not strategically optimal. I also think the fakeclaims needed a bit more work.

I'm inclined to say there's a strong correlation to there being no mod-provided fakeclaims and this being the first scum loss in the Starcraft series. This game does reinforce my sense that my mod-provided fakeclaims are a bit too strong, although I guess partly I'm trying to encourage scum to get more aggressive in shaping their own fakeclaims. I'll have to keep thinking about how I set that up.

That being said town did have a lot of power. It very nearly was a sweep the night that Moon changed his block from Hydra to Volxen. If he'd stayed on Hydra, then Nero ends up with a dayvig shot and scum don't get that kill off. But to be honest, before the pops lynch and the bus, I thought scum had this game.

[Ankamius]

tbf

the fakeclaim thing was my idea in the first place, I think you were going to give full fakeclaims until I suggested flavor fakeclaims

[Flavor Leaf]

tbf

the fakeclaim thing was my idea in the first place, I think you were going to give full fakeclaims until I suggested flavor fakeclaims

What did I fake claim?

I’m happy our early townblock was accurate. I really felt like it was.

[Nero Cain]

Did I get a free win?

[Liger_Zero]

Fun game everyone.

Props to Iconeum he really pushed the final two days lynches to get us the win when I didn't have the time or energy to do so.
Iconeum MVP.

[Cerberus v666]

tbf

the fakeclaim thing was my idea in the first place, I think you were going to give full fakeclaims until I suggested flavor fakeclaims

What did I fake claim?

I’m happy our early townblock was accurate. I really felt like it was.

Your early townblock was literally "people who are posting", which included me.

So, that all comes back to the teams general lack of thread presence.

[Liger_Zero]

So on the topic of Liger_Zero's login time check thing:1) Yeah, pretty shitty thing to do and I am going to sneer at him for it.2) We only talked in the discord, and Volxen posted our night actions, so any reason they had for checking the game during the night was not related to their alignment. *shrug*

Right for the wrong reasons. I will take it.

[Cerberus v666]

Ehh, Alchemist had a scum immune to GS check (Hydra, before promotion), a scum with one-shot immune to cop check (Volxen), a town miller (Boon), a town gunsmith miller (A50), and someone who turns literally anyone into gunsmith millers day 3 (RCE). There was also a risk of town utilities working against each other if RCE had checked the alienized target n1 (which was impossible in this iteration since you guys lynched Zeratul), or if the Even night RB had hit him.

I think if I added a scum roleblock shot I would have needed to make Amon not immune to lynch in lylo/mylo or something

The other question is whether the VT count or Vorazun (even night roleblocker) could have changed, as those were some of the late adjustments in the design process (I added Vorazun because mastina was worried Cerb's role was too strong, and then added two more vts to give the setup a bit more stability. I think both were good calls.) I do think this game ended up being pretty close toward the mid section so I don't think the setup was particularly townsided. I think your suicidal lynch would have been a lot better on a stronger power role, and you might have been better off holding. Lynching pops --> committing to fast bus I think overall was not strategically optimal. I also think the fakeclaims needed a bit more work.

I'm inclined to say there's a strong correlation to there being no mod-provided fakeclaims and this being the first scum loss in the Starcraft series. This game does reinforce my sense that my mod-provided fakeclaims are a bit too strong, although I guess partly I'm trying to encourage scum to get more aggressive in shaping their own fakeclaims. I'll have to keep thinking about how I set that up.

That being said town did have a lot of power. It very nearly was a sweep the night that Moon changed his block from Hydra to Volxen. If he'd stayed on Hydra, then Nero ends up with a dayvig shot and scum don't get that kill off. But to be honest, before the pops lynch and the bus, I thought scum had this game.

The way the bus on my slot was handled was suboptimal, yes, though I think any position of pushing my slot by volxen would have been viewed as scummy by the only person who seemed to care about that, liger, given they had a pretty severe tunnel on that slot for a good portion of the game.

It may have been optimal for me to fight the lynch really hard and try to direct it towards one of my teammates(hydra, for example), while having both volxen and hydra stay off my wagon. I don't think there was any real good town options to push a mislynch on organically, except perhaps liger, on that day at least.

With regards to the investigative/clears: gunsmith immune scum is fine, sure; miller/gunsmith miller were meaningless because they were also masons; one shot godfather is super weak and probably has even less of an effect on balance here than the mason millers did; RCE never made anyone a gunsmith miller until D3 at the earliest, when the JOAT would obviously have used both their investigatives by that point, so...also not relevant for practical balance purposes.

tbf

the fakeclaim thing was my idea in the first place, I think you were going to give full fakeclaims until I suggested flavor fakeclaims

Scum should *always* have mod provided full fake claims in theme games. Shame on you Ank. Like seriously, it's too easy/dumb for people to get caught because they have purely unsafe claims(like in this case, a mod provided claim that directly overlapped with an existing town role...one that was likely to become confirmed as town via mechanically catching scum).

[Cerberus v666]

So on the topic of Liger_Zero's login time check thing:1) Yeah, pretty shitty thing to do and I am going to sneer at him for it.2) We only talked in the discord, and Volxen posted our night actions, so any reason they had for checking the game during the night was not related to their alignment. *shrug*

Right for the wrong reasons. I will take it.

It wasn't even the wrong reason? It was like, literal air. Right for the wrong reasons would have been if it was an actual reason to think something, but it isn't.

[Liger_Zero]

Not really. When people log on they usually post somewhere. The hydra would come online and do nothing even though he had a total of 30 posts in the game. Simple posts like "I am catching up" would have alleviated that but I don't think that was "hot air", I was just wrong he was posting in the scum PT.

Do you really think the hydra would just come online at several crucial times and just not post if that was a town!slot?

[Cerberus v666]

Not really. When people log on they usually post somewhere. The hydra would come online and do nothing even though he had a total of 30 posts in the game. Simple posts like "I am catching up" would have alleviated that but I don't think that was "hot air", I was just wrong he was posting in the scum PT.

Do you really think the hydra would just come online at several crucial times and just not post if that was a town!slot?

Yes?

I mean.

People read games without posting all the time.

*shrug*

Perhaps you expect too much of people. I've come to learn that people are lazy and bad at mafia, and that lurking is pretty much 90% of every game.

[Liger_Zero]

Not a hydra. You log onto your hydra to post. Not read games.

[Cerberus v666]

Not a hydra. You log onto your hydra to post. Not read games.

NO no no. People log into their hydra to READ THE GAME THEIR HYDRA IS IN.

I mean, literally don't have any way to access my hydra games on my main because I never bookmark anything, and if I have to navigate through the site to find the game I'm just not going to do it.

[Liger_Zero]

Never seen anyone do that.

[Cerberus v666]

Never seen anyone do that.

In your set of N=1, that is, you? Since....I mean, why would you have intimate knowledge of how anyone else navigates the website to read hydra games?