Micro 887: the coaLITion [game over]

[NC 39]

@Spangled, @Hectic, @Gamma, care to weigh in before I bash my head into a wall?

[Spangled]

@Spangled, @Hectic, @Gamma, care to weigh in before I bash my head into a wall?

I cannot sort this game out in my mind; I’m sorry. I know this is a pathetic excuse but I’ve slept about 2 hours in the last 24; I’ll get to this as soon as I can.

[Hectic]

alright, time to reread this game

[Hectic]

i like Gamma's early game (P1/P2) play - feels natural and genuine, and i like his talking about him playing scum in this setup before, and his forgetting about losing day 1 in 39 is slightly town-indicative

I was telling Nero that we need to keep an eye on nsg because if she posts, that hydra is more likely to be town. Apparently scum!nsg flakes, so I’m leaning town on RC/nsg hydra for now.

i like NC39's early townread on NSG, bringing up NSG's meta to townread her and it eventually leading to a UTR is town-indicative

Spangled's early game is rubbing me the wrong way, mostly from tone

I find it a bit strange that Hectic is being so normal this game. His town play usually has a chaotic posting + formatting style and he likes to fake claim random stuff.

Either he's getting tired of a 'hectic' playstyle, or this is his scum game. I think it's the latter.

Espresso saying this and then not pushing me for it in future posts is slightly scum-indicative

RC's intro reads like an excuse for him to not play his usual town game. I'm not familiar with RC's scum game, but from the games I've played with + seen him in, he usually plays aggressive town.

I'd like some more information from @nsg. Specifically, why do you think I'm scum + what is your answer to my question about the past game.

this post is pretty bad tbh, didn't think much of it at the time because i didn't think scum wanted to start a 1v1 with RC so early, but this read is weird, like knowing RC's rep around here, i think he's one of the least likely people to have to give excuses for playing differently

Hmm, 97 where Espresso explains his thoughts is a lot better though

uhhhh, i'm up to page 7 now and kinda forgot to keep commentating on what i'm thinking
i'm just gonna read the whole thing first and then give thoughts

[Hectic]

alright, i think it's Espresso now

on Espresso:

not sure of what to make of Espresso's interactions with RC early

370 ignore the fact Spangled's partner could already be in the coalition

don't really like 475

485 is busywork

don't like 605, like if he scumreads LUV and townreads me, surely town!him would try harder to get me in and leave LUV out? but he accepts it far too easily, there's no push for it before this post either

then 685 and 689? i mean his reads don't line up with the coalition picked at the end so i don't like those two posts

dislike 777, but unsure if it's town!Espresso putting

far

too much emphasis on scum having 1 person in and 1 person out of the coalition, or if he's scum giving out easy pairing/reads based on stuff like this. but the impossible pairings section really rubs me the wrong way, like that's not very helpful, is it? it's self-explanatory that two people outside the coalition can't be scum. gives me the impression he's trying to look helpful basically

halfway through his ISO

[Hectic]

don't like 1021 for similar reasons to before, and looks like more busywork, i could see it being Espresso+Spangled here with him pushing this agenda here

1055 and 1081 seem a little off to me, selling myself on this i think

should i be scumreading someone for the number of 'h's and 'y's in 1406? seems kinda silly, but isn't it more normal to have lots of 'y's after 'wh' to express emphasis in a word? having exactly 4 of each as well? lol, i'll stop, i shouldn't consider this at all

1419 is odd, has been townreading me the whole game and has not expressed anything about me being suspicious before this post. i suspect he made this post because of my talk of him being hypocritical about NC+LUV associations in 1284, but i don't think it's a valid reason to scumread me for, more like i misunderstood. the 1v2 argument part is a little weird too

1420 seems unnecessary after i'd already brought that up in my first post in the day

[Hectic]

I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that it's NC/Hectic, but I don't know why I think that and I don't have time to go into it tonight.

I also don't see myself winning a 1v2 argument with them, so there's also that.

I’m not liking this post. First, you push LUV as my buddy and now Hectic? He was in my original coalition remember? It’s really beginning to get to me that you clearly aren’t reading my posts at all. :/

this pings me, like is him saying that really indicative that he isn't reading your posts? might have just forgot or not believe in the 1 in 1 out thing anymore

i do think NC vs Espresso is unlikely to be SvS though, so my scumread on Espresso does make NC town here

[Hectic]

You're using one of my pairings ideas (which again was a WIP from D1) as a reason you can't be paired with Hectic. If you care that strongly, I'll concede that you could be linked with someone else. At the end of the day, you're getting super defensive about a gut read.

We clearly have no idea on who is scum + I'm sure there's a 'perfectly rational explanation' they can point to for their actions. That's why it's going to be hard to 1v2 here.

Well one thing is for sure, it’s 100% LYLO not MYLO because the only way we don’t lose is to correctly lynch one of the scum.

So, I obviously know it’s not me and I don’t think it’s Spangled.

If you’re actually town here than this is counterproductive. It’s instinctive for me to sr anyone who fmpov is making a bad push on me and if you’re town, this is not helping get the clarity I need to try to figure this out.

am i misinterpreting this? are you saying here you know you're not scum and you don't think it's Spangled? or is there a deeper meaning behind this?

[Hectic]

You're using one of my pairings ideas (which again was a WIP from D1) as a reason you can't be paired with Hectic. If you care that strongly, I'll concede that you could be linked with someone else. At the end of the day, you're getting super defensive about a gut read.

We clearly have no idea on who is scum + I'm sure there's a 'perfectly rational explanation' they can point to for their actions. That's why it's going to be hard to 1v2 here.

Well one thing is for sure, it’s 100% LYLO not MYLO because the only way we don’t lose is to correctly lynch one of the scum. So, I obviously know it’s not me and I don’t think it’s Spangled. If you’re actually town here than this is counterproductive. It’s instinctive for me to sr anyone who fmpov is making a bad push on me and if you’re town, this is not helping get the clarity I need to try to figure this out.

I'm at a 50/50 between you and Gamma. Pushing either of you is not counterproductive. Saying otherwise is just an attempt at gaslighting me and taking the focus off of yourself.

Fmpov, it’s obviously the same. Fine, push me then. I’m not the reason coalition failed.

But if you’re going to be useless, I will wait for others who are actually interested in helping figure it out. If you’re town here . . . you know what nevermind. It’s blatantly obvious I’m talking to a brick wall. If you were actually interested in solving this game, you’d try to engage me but I’m not going to waste my time if you persist on refusing.

this pings me as well tbh, why you have to be like this NC?
overall the Espresso/NC interactions today still read as SvT though (with Espresso being the scum)

[Hectic]

okay, now to find his partner

[Hectic]

ugh, rereading the game and ISOing Espresso took way too long, not really bothered right now to properly ISO NC given the post count, and Gamma seems fine from a quick skim, think i'll stick to my Espresso + Spangled solve for now

[NC 39]

I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that it's NC/Hectic, but I don't know why I think that and I don't have time to go into it tonight.

I also don't see myself winning a 1v2 argument with them, so there's also that.

I’m not liking this post. First, you push LUV as my buddy and now Hectic? He was in my original coalition remember? It’s really beginning to get to me that you clearly aren’t reading my posts at all. :/

this pings me, like is him saying that really indicative that he isn't reading your posts? might have just forgot or not believe in the 1 in 1 out thing anymore

i do think NC vs Espresso is unlikely to be SvS though, so my scumread on Espresso does make NC town here

I do think he is misinterpreting them because he is clearly getting a different meaning than I’m intending.

[NC 39]

You're using one of my pairings ideas (which again was a WIP from D1) as a reason you can't be paired with Hectic. If you care that strongly, I'll concede that you could be linked with someone else. At the end of the day, you're getting super defensive about a gut read.

We clearly have no idea on who is scum + I'm sure there's a 'perfectly rational explanation' they can point to for their actions. That's why it's going to be hard to 1v2 here.

Well one thing is for sure, it’s 100% LYLO not MYLO because the only way we don’t lose is to correctly lynch one of the scum.

So, I obviously know it’s not me and I don’t think it’s Spangled.

If you’re actually town here than this is counterproductive. It’s instinctive for me to sr anyone who fmpov is making a bad push on me and if you’re town, this is not helping get the clarity I need to try to figure this out.

am i misinterpreting this? are you saying here you know you're not scum and you don't think it's Spangled? or is there a deeper meaning behind this?

No, the coalition didn’t fail because of me and Spangled’s posting has been very natural and unrehearsed. The obvious problem is we are at an extreme disadvantage here, having no scum flips.

[NC 39]

You're using one of my pairings ideas (which again was a WIP from D1) as a reason you can't be paired with Hectic. If you care that strongly, I'll concede that you could be linked with someone else. At the end of the day, you're getting super defensive about a gut read.

We clearly have no idea on who is scum + I'm sure there's a 'perfectly rational explanation' they can point to for their actions. That's why it's going to be hard to 1v2 here.

Well one thing is for sure, it’s 100% LYLO not MYLO because the only way we don’t lose is to correctly lynch one of the scum. So, I obviously know it’s not me and I don’t think it’s Spangled. If you’re actually town here than this is counterproductive. It’s instinctive for me to sr anyone who fmpov is making a bad push on me and if you’re town, this is not helping get the clarity I need to try to figure this out.

I'm at a 50/50 between you and Gamma. Pushing either of you is not counterproductive. Saying otherwise is just an attempt at gaslighting me and taking the focus off of yourself.

Fmpov, it’s obviously the same. Fine, push me then. I’m not the reason coalition failed.

But if you’re going to be useless, I will wait for others who are actually interested in helping figure it out. If you’re town here . . . you know what nevermind. It’s blatantly obvious I’m talking to a brick wall. If you were actually interested in solving this game, you’d try to engage me but I’m not going to waste my time if you persist on refusing.

this pings me as well tbh, why you have to be like this NC?
overall the Espresso/NC interactions today still read as SvT though (with Espresso being the scum)

Because he’s been continually pushing me without even given a single reason for it and none of it is making any sense to me. I’m trying really hard to solve this game and it feels like pulling teeth, the way he’s been interacting with me, so I was getting really frustrated by that. I wouldn’t have responded that way, had he even given at least one single reason for this push, which seems to come out of nowhere, so I got fed up with banging my head against a brick wall.

[Spangled]

Uh... Hectic... where did you previously state the idea of an EP/Spangled scumteam... and why/how did you settle on it in the end; what interactions make you think that that particular scumteam is most likely?

[EspressoPatronum]

Spoiler:

Scum operating under your assumption above would likely want two scum in the coalition if they thought town would be voting outside of the coalition. In the case at hand, you advocated to remove LUV from the coalition once you learned about the timing. It was probably nothing, but it's why I think an NC-LUV pairing is possible while all the other in-coalition pairings seem unlikely. ~Espresso

Per my reasoning above, LUV is a good lynch if the coalition fails because:
1. He's within the coalition (see my earlier reasoning)
2. If he's town, I feel even better about town!NC
3. If he's scum, I feel very strongly about scum!NC (see reasoning above)

The NC connection wasn't my only reason at the time. Although I didn't cite it (and I kind of wish I did now), my scumread on LUV also informed my vote. ~Espresso

I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that it's NC/Hectic, but I don't know why I think that and I don't have time to go into it tonight.

Care to explain this?

My explanation is that I was clearly wrong about LUV.

Why are you still sr me then?

I can sr you without the need of LUV. Your defensiveness is a big one right now.

You obviously haven’t metacased me then.

Can you point me to a few town games for metacasing purposes? You're right that I haven't done this yet.

[EspressoPatronum]

So if 1 + 1, I lean Gamma/Espresso with Hectic more likely than Spangled.

If 2, then obviously Espresso/Gamma but am not sure on which.

Gamma seemed pretty townie at EoD and my suspicion on Hectic has lessened since Alchemist mislynch. I feel the best about Spangled and Espresso’s unexplained 180 on me is majorly paranoia pinging me.

I think it would greatly help if I could figure out which is which: 2 scum in coalition or 1 +1.

Because once we have a clearer idea on that, I think the game is definitely solvable.

I think I feel best about Spangled because he seems to be very natural, kind of the opposite of Espresso but that could also be a playstyle thing.

Fmpv, I don't have to worry about 2 in bcz lynching you or Gamma will result in a scum death. You shouldn't be worried about 2 in either, as from a town!NC perspective, 2 scum in the coalition results in a scum death either way.

How do you propose we solve the 1+1?

Why shouldn’t I be worried about 2 scum in coalition? There are two other players: you and Gamma and two non-coalition players. Of course I’m worried because it could also be 1 + 1. The point is I don’t want another mislynch or we lose and fmpov, I have no idea if both you and Gamma are scum or just one of you, so I don’t understand where you’re coming from with this.

I don't think lynching outside of the coalition is correct here, so I'm assuming any vote that passes today will be within the coalition.

When I said 2-in doesn't matter today, I meant that the town who is in the coalition will always be voting for scum if they vote within the coalition. So assuming scum!EP and scum!Gamma for a moment, town!NC is fine either way.

I agree with you that the discussion should focus on 1+1.

The point is, I don’t have a clue if it’s 2 in coalition or 1 + 1. I don’t know if you’re the reason coalition failed or you are woefully incapable of correctly understanding my posts. It’s almost like we’re speaking different languages. What I do know is that I am apparently not understanding you any better than you’re understanding me and this is why continuing to engage with you is so damned frustrating because I don’t think anything I’ve said is at all getting through and it’s been like this from day fucking one.

I recall gobbled saying you were the common denominator in all of these misunderstanding posts, but I'll agree that I've misinterpreted

some

of your posts. I don't see where I'm

continually

misinterpreting you, but you keep saying I am + then doing the same back to me. Regardless of your alignment, we both agree that it's frustrating.

At least if I honestly thought you were making a good faith effort, I might still try but you’re clearly not for whatever reason. You still have yet to explain how and why you suddenly apparently did this 180 on me. It’s really hard not to feel like you’re just confibiasing me.

It's honestly a mixture of gut read, my interactions with you this game, your general hesitance on giving strong reads, and your defensiveness about any scumread on you.

On the latter point, I still need to look at your meta. On the other points, I still need to look into them further and weigh them against Gamma.

[EspressoPatronum]

How do you propose we solve the 1+1?

If it is then I’ve already answered that. You have clearly misunderstood me. I didn’t say it has to be you and Gamma, it could just be one and one outside coalition. I am trying my damndest to figure out which.

So, if we lynch outside, I already told you I lean Hectic over Spangled in that case but that is dependent on it being a 1 + 1.

If it isn’t and Hectic or less likely Spangled, is a mislynch, then we lose. How is this not townie fyp? Isn’t it townie to consider all possibilities?

I don’t understand you at all. :/

I didn't say you thought it had to be me and Gamma.
I didn't say 1+1 is not towny.
I didn't say your Hectic>Spangled lean is not towny.

This is why you think I'm misunderstanding you... I'm not saying some of the things you think I'm saying.

Question for you so I can understand your perspective -- Are you considering +/ open to voting outside of the coalition today?

[EspressoPatronum]

Hey Hectic, do you want me to do a line-by-line response to your posts on me?

[Hectic]

Uh... Hectic... where did you previously state the idea of an EP/Spangled scumteam... and why/how did you settle on it in the end; what interactions make you think that that particular scumteam is most likely?

1055 and 1081 interactions between you two i don't like, and i just think you two are most individually scummy right now after rereading, not 100% sold on Gamma though, could be wrong
don't think i've mentioned it before

[Hectic]

Hey Hectic, do you want me to do a line-by-line response to your posts on me?

definitely

[Hectic]

Because he’s been continually pushing me without even given a single reason for it and none of it is making any sense to me. I’m trying really hard to solve this game and it feels like pulling teeth, the way he’s been interacting with me, so I was getting really frustrated by that. I wouldn’t have responded that way, had he even given at least one single reason for this push, which seems to come out of nowhere, so I got fed up with banging my head against a brick wall.

i see, if anything, it does make me townread you a bit more for it, the frustration seems genuine, might be being completely played here but i don't think so

[Gamma Emerald]

am i misinterpreting this? are you saying here you know you're not scum and you don't think it's Spangled? or is there a deeper meaning behind this?

What do you think the deeper meaning would be?

[Skygazer]

VC 3.01 (unchanged) Not Voting (5): EspressoPatronum, Spangled, NC 39, Hectic, Gamma Emerald With 5 players alive, it takes 3 to reach a majority. Day three ends in (expired on 2019-10-02 17:15:00).

[Hectic]

am i misinterpreting this? are you saying here you know you're not scum and you don't think it's Spangled? or is there a deeper meaning behind this?

What do you think the deeper meaning would be?

i wasn't sure, that's why i asked, i just thought it a bit odd that she would say "it can't be me because i know i'm town", i mean that's evident for everyone from their perspective, so not really something i see worth bringing up