Alisae V Pine: Trees Apparently Make Good Treestumps

[Alisae]

By the way, the ducky and I would be interested in modding Titus v. Alisae, if you two are still down for that. Let us know the setup and time constraints and we can get started working on it.

The fruit can definitely go, though I do think Alisae should have some way to be able to affect the game besides just trolling people.

I was messing around with the idea of having a single mason; that would make them a lot easier to hide and free up town to have more significant power elsewhere. Obviously we'll abide by whatever Ali and Titus want though.

sounds great!

[Gamma Emerald]

The single mason is a cool idea and something my homesite kinda did once

[Alisae]

turn of camn had a single mason

[Pine]

The first game didn’t have Mason or Townstump at all. This originally had one, but as the size grew I offered Ali a second Mason to compensate.

Really, I don’t think it’s clear how close this was to mathematically solved. On D6, you had as many confirmed Townies as you did scum, and that’s down a Mason with the Hider clearing no one.

[Wooper]

such a generous evil scumtree

[Pine]

I enjoy a high-stakes challenge.

[Pine]

The only truly Faustian bargains this game were with Titus and Menalque. I had high hopes that someone would try to pressure me right back on bargaining.

I want to retain the bargaining aspect next time, but it needs to be a little more transparent.

[Jingle]

Really, I don’t think it’s clear how close this was to mathematically solved. On D6, you had as many confirmed Townies as you did scum, and that’s down a Mason with the Hider clearing no one.

tbf, that did require scum to not shoot at conftown and scum had two methods of potentially making hider innos false results, but given they DIDN'T have a way to break through Ali's protection that's still roughly balanced.

The numbers game shown is partially why town didn't have a tracker or cop or anything that could guilty scum, though. The other part being that I don't like cop or cop like roles.

[Something_Smart]

The other part being that I don't like cop or cop like roles.

...why'd you put a hider in then?

[Jingle]

Hider kills itself and has the question of roleblocking.

My issue with cop is that outside of incredibly inelegant roles, a cop result of guilty isn't really something you can argue down. It completely removes the ability of scum to play around it.

[Something_Smart]

The way I see the setup is, maybe in a vacuum it's balanced, but it's basically tuned for maximum swing (hider + vig own the game if they live long enough, while a JK on hider visiting scum is basically GG) and minimum town agency (aside from hider who's terrified of dying, town only has the desperado for TARGETED conftowning, everything else is just passive). So it's not really fun, and your aversion to cops shouldn't preclude you from adding trackers, followers, voyeurs, vanilla cops, neapolitans, loyal and disloyal roles, or gunsmiths... because these roles actually afford town some way to generate their own information. The one genuine town investigative role couldn't even target people...

[Ankamius]

The game was mostly balanced for day play from what I've seen

[Aristophanes]

I, for one, had a lot of fun and adored my role!

Thanks again for a great game, Jingle

[Ankamius]

I really don't like the idea of having to rely on mechanics to win a game, especially when there's enough ability to create mechanical townblocks (which is DISGUSTINGLY strong when utilized properly) and there's enough ways to disrupt the the scumteam via desperado shot and the ability to potentially lose their night kill every single night

Me dying was the main swing of the game since I think I could abuse the town block existing harder than anybody else in the plist on top of parrying the effect that the mastina distraction had on the game, which I think was what swung the game towards scum's favor in the first place

[Something_Smart]

Yeah I don't really think the game was scumsided anymore, just several townies were insistent on turning it into a scumsided game.

But like, maybe in some games you don't have to rely on mechanics, but in a 19:6 game? You sure as hell do. And while these mechanics were able to confirm people as town they really took away a lot of town agency and while that might look good on paper it really didn't make for that fun of an experience.

[Jingle]

Ank has it about right.

And yes, I could have added a bunch of other roles that give questionable information, but the more of those that get added, the less impact the role Pine requested has on the setup. Given that the conceit was Pine had a chance to influence the setup and chose to do so with the inventor role, I didn't think deliberately undermining his request was the right decision to make.

You can argue that you don't like centralized power as much as you like, but the gimmick of the setup called for centralized power and that's not something I consider a mistake. And, to be perfectly honest, the fact that you don't like centralized power means more that this type of setup isn't one you should play in, not that the setup was poorly designed. Yes, Pine and Ali had a disproportionate amount of influence over the game. The game was also NAMED ALISAE VS PINE.

(Also, FWIW, the masons were semi targeted by Ali and the rest of the conftown was targeted by non random role distribution.)

[Ankamius]

Yeah I don't really think the game was scumsided anymore, just several townies were insistent on turning it into a scumsided game.

But like, maybe in some games you don't have to rely on mechanics, but in a 19:6 game? You sure as hell do. And while these mechanics were able to confirm people as town they really took away a lot of town agency and while that might look good on paper it really didn't make for that fun of an experience.

Scum successfully distracted town into focusing on irrelevant things all game

Kinda hard for town to come back from that lategame

[Firebringer]

Me dying was the main swing of the game since I think I could abuse the town block existing harder than anybody else in the plist on top of parrying the effect that the mastina distraction had on the game, which I think was what swung the game towards scum's favor in the first place

hard disagree

[Ankamius]

what was the swing fire?

[Firebringer]

alisae

[Alisae]

imagine blaming the game on me when your own game was awful

[RadiantCowbells]

actually the swing was the tire held on a rope by a tree in my front lawn u morons

[Firebringer]

actually the swing was the tire held on a rope by a tree in my front lawn u morons

alisae has the force of ten times tires

[Ankamius]

alisae had a masonry e couldn't work well with and a gamestate that went out of eir control too quickly

I really don't think that alisae is a cause of the game being lost as much as a secondary cause resulting from the primary causes

[RadiantCowbells]

i hear katsuki had amazing reads