Grand Idea uPick [Game Over]

[Almost50]

I very strongly felt if one of them was not Town it was Rauth, so in the end, I could've won Town the game, but that risked my win
I don't feel like I double-crossed you

Yes you did. I laid down a plan for you, dave and Gamma to follow. I said to lynch Rauth today. That would have still let you win, but you chose to backstab me and Gamma (I did a lot of solving and Gamma did a lot of action, and he could have chosen something different that could've won him the game but he stayed loyal.)

Next time don't send me the FN note cuz I won't acknowledge receiving it.

[KidAmn]

New Site Rule:

DEB should be PL'd in every single game regardless. Switching sides willingly is bad enough an idea, but -also- doublecrossing me and Gamma was even worse. Fuck me if I trust you again even if you were a mod-confirmed IC

DEB only became Mafia in the simulated future where I shoot DEB (night 6 in most possible endgames.)
DEB was Town at the end of the day 5.

I'm fine with the Werewolf and Sliver PTs being released.

And finally, wow I didn't think for a while that I could pull this off.

Ditto on the WW PT. Glad I could help from the grave

[KidAmn]

FWIW I 100% don't blame anyone for doing weird shit and double-crosses in a game that was, as this clearly was, bastard (albeit as well balanced as a bastard with the picks chosen could have been).

[Rautherdir]

I very strongly felt if one of them was not Town it was Rauth, so in the end, I could've won Town the game, but that risked my win
I don't feel like I double-crossed you

Yes you did. I laid down a plan for you, dave and Gamma to follow. I said to lynch Rauth today. That would have still let you win, but you chose to backstab me and Gamma (I did a lot of solving and Gamma did a lot of action, and he could have chosen something different that could've won him the game but he stayed loyal.)

Next time don't send me the FN note cuz I won't acknowledge receiving it.

The mod told the Sliver thread that we needed to kill Gamma in order for slivers to win. Everyone involved played to their win condition. (And needing to kill Gamma was legit a surprise. I had previously though along with the rest of the slivers that slivers had already won.)

Also... I correctly stated that Gamma could have still been cult. When I said DEB was the only conf-town player on day 5 I meant it. (We never openly stated that Gamma could be cult before day 5 in case Gamma chose deathproof, bulletproof, or lynchproof to avoid getting killed after that.) No lynching and getting to a 3 person LYLO was the correct town play in that scenario. (And then the mod told the slivers we could guarantee victory by lynching Gamma, which DEB decided was better then a chance of winning as town. Kind of like how me and KidAmn were originally going to go for the Sliver win-con ourselves before KidAmn had to take Bingle's role instead of waiting for a Sliver to die. The whole thing where I said the slivers could have an extra player was crumbing that, actually.)

[Dr Easy Bake]

Next time don't send me the FN note cuz I won't acknowledge receiving it.

Jeez la weez papa cheez. All's fair in love and Mafia.
Now that I think of it, the Prism wouldn't have blocked the kill, so yeah, town would have won. But it wasn't the 100% win, I went for the 100% win. I only have undying loyalty to one person on this site, and that's Vorkuta.
My intention wasn't to backstab you, it was to win, and I did. So mission accomplished. (I always win my games no matter what though ) Sorry, you got hurt in the process.

[davesaz]

I also thought Gamma could still be cult.
Very confused with what DEB's role meant. Was the PM that was posted the final version post-shift or the original version?

[davesaz]

Well, there are 3 possibilities: (I know the 4th possibility of me being scum isn't true, ymmv)

• Gamma stayed cult somehow or maybe even chose Judas and switched to mafia? Bottom line, Gamma somehow ended up non-town...
  
• Friendly neighbor is just non-town neighborizer who had only neighborized town? I don't know if the neighborized people learn that the neighborizer was a friendly neighbor, haven't been targeted by such a role that I can remember.
  
• Rautherdir is the towniest looking scum ever.

I lean toward Gamma non-town but open to being convinced one of the other two.
Not sure on the middle one, the desperado perhaps rules out that possibility unless there is a loophole...
It being Grand Idea, I guess the thread has a plethora of other things that could cause this scenario but let's stick to high probability ones

Turns out #2 and #3 were both at least partly right. Who would guess?

[KidAmn]

The mod told the Sliver thread that we needed to kill Gamma in order for slivers to win

wait hol up

[davesaz]

I'm not sure endgaming is the correct resolution TBH. Shouldn't that have been a night where slivers vote on who to kill / heal decided it?
The game state should have been
DEB - shifter, still town
Rautherdir - ww
Dave - town

How would a heal DEB, kill Rauth / Rauth kills Dave be resolved in this case? Don't know what the prism actually does.

[davesaz]

The mod told the Sliver thread that we needed to kill Gamma in order for slivers to win

wait hol up

Let's clarify that a bit. This was at the end when only 4 were left.
The sliver wincon was to completely dominate. We all interpreted that to mean be in the majority, but the mod corrected it to say we had to be the only ones alive to activate that wincon. We weren't explicitly told to kill Gamma, it just follows immediately from what we were told...

[davesaz]

Also fine with opening sliver PT.

[KidAmn]

The mod told the Sliver thread that we needed to kill Gamma in order for slivers to win

wait hol up

Let's clarify that a bit. This was at the end when only 4 were left.
The sliver wincon was to completely dominate. We all interpreted that to mean be in the majority, but the mod corrected it to say we had to be the only ones alive to activate that wincon. We weren't explicitly told to kill Gamma, it just follows immediately from what we were told...

Ah, see that sounds a lot less concerning.

[TemporalLich]

The slivers were town-aligned scum after all...

That's a new level of GIM...

[davesaz]

I very strongly felt if one of them was not Town it was Rauth, so in the end, I could've won Town the game, but that risked my win
I don't feel like I double-crossed you

Yes you did. I laid down a plan for you, dave and Gamma to follow. I said to lynch Rauth today. That would have still let you win, but you chose to backstab me and Gamma (I did a lot of solving and Gamma did a lot of action, and he could have chosen something different that could've won him the game but he stayed loyal.)

Next time don't send me the FN note cuz I won't acknowledge receiving it.

If you're talking about 1838 that was pretty vague. And after that point you were pretty even on me vs Rauth. I don't think the salt is warranted, it's more hindsight than foresight.

I kinda blame myself a bit for not doing a deeper search on friendly to find there were other possible roles that DEB could have.

[Dr Easy Bake]

So since there seems to be some concern my role was as such:
I was a Town Sliver Friendly Shifter. Every night I could visit someone and tell them I was town. If I didn't do this and I died the same night, I would then be aligned with the Mafia (still dead).
I also was a part of the slivers.
At engdame, Korina counted that as dying. Since I wasn't able to perform my visit, I turned Mafia. This part just now confuses me since the night didn't go through, I didn't even get an option to do my visit. :shrug: I only win with the Slivers either way.

[Rautherdir]

Now that I think of it, the Prism wouldn't have blocked the kill, so yeah, town would have won.

With less then 5 players alive (and in LYLO) the sliver kill and heal must each be performed by a person. If I was only targeted by the kill then I had an (I believe) 7.5% chance of roleblocking the correct person. Every other action on me would increase the odds I roleblock the kill.

And I also had a decent amount of evidence that NMSA/davesaz was mafia, for example:
Night 1 after I suggested KidAmn for the heal, NMSA replied that we should heal within slivers. That night KidAmn was the Mafia kill.
Night 3 I 'jailkept' NMSA/davesaz and there was no Mafia kill. (Post game I can now reveal it was just a heal, and I didn't actually know who it targeted.)
Day 4 Temporal (knowing they were going to die) townread me and scumread dave. I believe Temporal had also previously scumread me and hadn't given a read on NMSA/davesaz

[Bingle]

Glad I could soak up that Dayvig. It was an excellent shot fueled in no part by ridiculous paranoia.

[Dr Easy Bake]

Now that I think of it, the Prism wouldn't have blocked the kill, so yeah, town would have won.

With less then 5 players alive (and in LYLO) the sliver kill and heal must each be performed by a person. If I was only targeted by the kill then I had an (I believe) 7.5% chance of roleblocking the correct person. Every other action on me would increase the odds I roleblock the kill.

And I also had a decent amount of evidence that NMSA/davesaz was mafia, for example:
Night 1 after I suggested KidAmn for the heal, NMSA replied that we should heal within slivers. That night KidAmn was the Mafia kill.
Night 3 I 'jailkept' NMSA/davesaz and there was no Mafia kill. (Post game I can now reveal it was just a heal, and I didn't actually know who it targeted.)
Day 4 Temporal (knowing they were going to die) townread me and scumread dave. I believe Temporal had also previously scumread me and hadn't given a read on NMSA/davesaz

I'm not talking about a night kill though, my bad for saying kill. Your prism wouldn't have stopped a lynch, which is how we would have tried to kill you. Not necessarily saying I would have been able to convince Gamma/Dave, but it was possible. Though if it wasn't for me you wouldn't have gotten the lynch off on Gamma.

[Gamma Emerald]

New Site Rule:

DEB should be PL'd in every single game regardless. Switching sides willingly is bad enough an idea, but -also- doublecrossing me and Gamma was even worse. Fuck me if I trust you again even if you were a mod-confirmed IC

Fucking same. And DEB, if you start pulling a Yume I will straight blacklist you.

[Gamma Emerald]

New Site Rule:

DEB should be PL'd in every single game regardless. Switching sides willingly is bad enough an idea, but -also- double-crossing me and Gamma was even worse. Fuck me if I trust you again even if you were a mod-confirmed IC

I never intentionally switched sides. I just wanted to win no matter what so I went for the easy Sliver win at endgame. I very strongly felt if one of them was not Town it was Rauth, so in the end, I could've won Town the game, but that risked my win
I don't feel like I double-crossed you

Sliver siding was double crossing when winning with town would have also been completely possible. In the worlds of Lex van der Berghe: you sold out your values, you sold out your character, and you sold out your

friends

, for a

stack of greenbacks

win in an online mafia game.

[Gamma Emerald]

I very strongly felt if one of them was not Town it was Rauth, so in the end, I could've won Town the game, but that risked my win
I don't feel like I double-crossed you

Yes you did. I laid down a plan for you, dave and Gamma to follow. I said to lynch Rauth today. That would have still let you win, but you chose to backstab me and Gamma (I did a lot of solving and Gamma did a lot of action, and he could have chosen something different that could've won him the game but he stayed loyal.)

Next time don't send me the FN note cuz I won't acknowledge receiving it.

The mod told the Sliver thread that we needed to kill Gamma in order for slivers to win. Everyone involved played to their win condition. (And needing to kill Gamma was legit a surprise. I had previously though along with the rest of the slivers that slivers had already won.)

Also... I correctly stated that Gamma could have still been cult. When I said DEB was the only conf-town player on day 5 I meant it. (We never openly stated that Gamma could be cult before day 5 in case Gamma chose deathproof, bulletproof, or lynchproof to avoid getting killed after that.) No lynching and getting to a 3 person LYLO was the correct town play in that scenario. (And then the mod told the slivers we could guarantee victory by lynching Gamma, which DEB decided was better then a chance of winning as town. Kind of like how me and KidAmn were originally going to go for the Sliver win-con ourselves before KidAmn had to take Bingle's role instead of waiting for a Sliver to die. The whole thing where I said the slivers could have an extra player was crumbing that, actually.)

Yeah but killing you instead means TOWN wins. DEB BETRAYED THE TOWN.

[the worst]

so a Grand Idea uPick without rejecting ~70 picks per person results in a really bizarre setup. who'd've thought?

gg all, well played. this was pretty amusing to watch. every time there was a night phase I stopped breathing.

gj on the modding Kor.

[Rautherdir]

I'm not talking about a night kill though, my bad for saying kill. Your prism wouldn't have stopped a lynch, which is how we would have tried to kill you. Not necessarily saying I would have been able to convince Gamma/Dave, but it was possible. Though if it wasn't for me you wouldn't have gotten the lynch off on Gamma.

I was originally going for a no lynch on day 5, actually. (I thought it was more likely for me to win in a scenario where there wasn't a lynch, due to the fact that Gamma would probably target me with jailkeep and proc my Prism ability.) After lynching Gamma, lynching me wouldn't have been an option. Since I had vision of the heal, then I also would know who wouldn't get healed, if you were healed I could just shoot dave, and in a scenario where we heal dave for some reason, I could just shoot you.

At the start of day 5 I was only trying to allow KidAmn to win, I thought my victory was guaranteed as a Sliver (Until it wasn't...)

Me and KidAmn possibly should have both outed Day 1 so we could orchestrate turning KidAmn into a sliver and then go for a joint town/Sliver victory. The joint town/Sliver win was actually our original plan. After KidAmn turned into a sliver we would have conceded the Werewolf victory to allow the joint with town to still happen even if one or both of us were still alive at the end of the game. But then KidAmn had to claim, and we couldn't save his graverob for a sliver death, and after that I decided to go for the Werewolf victory because it wouldn't be nice to abandon my partner just because I had another win condition. I honestly didn't think I would actually succeed for most of the game.

@Korina: Wouldn't it be safe to assume that DEB used their friendly neighbor ability the night they died in an endgame scenario? (Unless DEB wanted to switch sides)

p-edit:
You weren't conf-town Gamma. There was a very real chance in our minds that you picked bulletproof or deathproof instead of Saulus, and were still cult. (One of the reasons the night 3 kill could have gone missing is if it landed on you and you were bulletproof or deathproof instead of Saulus. And while there were other explanations for that kill going missing, they relied on the sliver heal being what stopped it, or my 'jailkeep' being what stopped it. Neither is compatible with me being mafia.)

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah maybe don’t be dicks and flashwagon me, though?
Also kinda mad at the mod for making a statement that turned them against me, was considering getting pisskop to become town to get all once-cults to win with town to please Korina, but if that’s how it is I’m destroying all of Korina’s cults whenever I can. Also, I made a statement that could clearly be construed as a Saulus/the like crumb. Point out ONE POST that looked like it could have been an BP crumb. If you cannot you either are an idiot who never fully understood my role or are full of shit.

[Rautherdir]

Ah thanks
There seems to be a lot of death stoppage lately

^ this.