Undertale Semi-Open 1.1 - Snowdin Snowdown

[popsofctown]

Tutu

[popsofctown]

Fight Votecount 5.0

Elements -----

(1)

Oversoul

Oversoul -----

(1)

Elements

Chemist1422 -

Not Fighting:

- (1) Chemist1422

Oversoul flew up and settled into a bird's nest from which he could look down at the other two monsters. One monster was massive, and the other was scarcely bigger than he was. But he knew what really mattered is which one was evil inside.
"I just wanted this treehouse so we could all be happy! But one of you can't stop killing people! So we have to put an end to this!" He looked back and forth at each of them, trying to suss out which one was innocent, but he felt he couldn't be sure.
Frustrated, he threw a snowball at each of them, hoping that would somehow magically help him decide. Both the monsters dodged easily, because the tiny Oversoul had lobbed the snowballs in a slow, weak arc.
"Okay I am really glad I didn't vote for snowball fights when this all started I guess." he told himself.

With three alive, it takes two votes to make a decision.
(expired on 2019-11-16 22:06:42)

[Oversoul]

Case time peeps.

We identify four townies and win. Townhunting is better than scumhunting and this playerlist is good for application

Been there, done that, won as scum. Let's move on and make it hard for the scum to win.

This doesn't sound towny tonally

I doubt my play style will be similar to last time.

I doubt ur town

Is this based on my entrance so far?

First point - Chennis had been

hard

scumreading Elements since early in the game. A lot of the early interactions Elements has with Chennis look like Elements is trying to figure out a way to deal with Chennis. At first, Elements dances around the fact that Chennis scumreading him. When that does not work, Elements proceeds to scumread Chennis because if all else fails tunneling at least looks like effort. You will see that he responds similarly to people who suspect him (namely me and Wisdom). I will note this as the posts come up.

Friendly reminder that Chennis was the first nightkill, by the way. Now normally I find nightkill analysis to be like reading tea leaves, but I think there is something to be said about Chennis dying the first night. It is that Elements knows Chennis can lead a town as he lead the last town

despite being in the spare room within the first 48 hours

. Elements was scum that game and is very aware of Chennis's sway over towns when he is town.

HURT: Elements
HURT: Elements
HURT: Elements

rude

HEAL: oversoul

Here I have made it abundantly clear that I am scumreading Elements. Much like what he did with Chennis, Elements tries to dance around the scumread. In this instance, I think he is trying to placate me by townreading me. This is an uncommon tactic that scum will make to get a townie off their case.

I don't understand how apparently eveyone except me can be obvtown. My scum game is so obvious to see. I'm so much more passive and less erratic.

Elements self admits that he is aware of the differences between his town and scum game. He says multiple times that he is playing differently this game. This is because he is knowingly trying to break the scum meta that he used last game. By saying he is acting differently from his scum game and drawing attention to that fact, he is tricking people into thinking this is town game. But that falls on its face as Elements is clearly aware enough to manipulate his own meta. Plus, he has a small sample size that he can easily maneuver around.

I think youre echoing me.

I think youre echoing me.

Again, like what he did with Chennis, and with me, Elements is dancing around Wisdom's suspicion of him. In this case, playfully repeats what Wisdom said. This type of behavior is to lower the potential for persistent scum reads by trying to make people like him. That is a legitimate tactic as people are just generally less inclined to think poorly of people they like. That is what Elements is trying to do. It didn't work with Chennis so he goes to plan B to tunnel Chennis to look like he is contributing and has a scumread.

Chennis was very much a town leader last game.

As I said earlier, Elements is aware of Chennis's power over town. That strong scum read + Chennis being able to direct towns is why Chennis died the first night.

I think Chennis is scum from how badly he's reading me

More tunneling, see above.

That was not a towny reaction Elements

as I said, I'm feeling volatile

@Elements:
You later said that you thought that the way that Chennis was pushing you was scummy because he should recognize that you are town, but here it doesn't read like that's the case. When did it shift from "meh" to "ok he's scum he should be townreading me by now"?

Both me and chennis are playing differently to last game. Last game channis started out as a loose flying tentacle trying to grasp onto the ideal way for town to win shooting out stream of thought style posts left right and centre. The flying tentacle bit not being present here is perfectly excusable seeing as he has prior experience with this set up. This time his posts don't seem very stream of conciousy. They seem more calculated especially the constant tunnelling on me.

Its like a kid in front of a pile of sweets:
Town chennis last game - "That one looks good, that one looks good, ooh! that one's rlly good! Maybe avoid that one, looks nasty."
Chennis this game: "Stay away from that one. I know you won't like it. These ones are all meh. Those two are good. Avoid the first one I mentioned."
The first scenario the child is recommending sweets to their friends. The second scenario the child is forcefully telling their friends to stay away from one type of sweet because they want more of it.

TL;DR
Chennis was a wibbly wobbly blob of consciousness last game and is a scheming calculated agenda pusher this game.

Elements further showing the reverence he has for Chennis and his play from last game where town followed his reads despite Chennis being trapped in the spare room for the majority of the game. Elements needed Chennis out of the game as soon as possible because he knows what happens when Chennis scumreads someone - that person dies.

HEAL: Xayah
Alright, since that happened I'm gonna put myself into a PT with Rakan easiest way to solve both slots and get some protective solving done.

I don't know if I like you enough yet.
I'f prefer chemist

This is at the beginning of Day 2. I find this interesting because Elements does not say he scumreads Xayah. He says a very milquetoast comment that he prefers Chemist. This is important though because this directly contradicts the claim that Elements made toDay - that he scumread Xayah for the entire game.

There is no way anyone comes away from reading this post that Elements SCUMREADS Xayah. With hindsight, this looks like a fencesitting post on his buddy to keep his options open should Xayah start to gain traction either way - spare or hurt.

HURT: xayah
HEAL: pops

Elements then randomly hurts Xayah before back tracking right away...

Wait that's wrong
HURT: gingie
627 is way tmi

Back tracking from whatever lukewarm "scumread" (I use that term lightly) he had on Xayah. This reeks of distancing.

Elements can you make a list like the one I asked Rakan to make please

Because you’re acting somewhat chaotic and I have no idea where your head is at

I do feel like I'm reading this game entirely wrong, but here you go:

Town

Wisdom
Elements
Chemist
Oversoul
nymph
nacho
mastina
xayah
Gingie

Scum

Xayah here is now most definitely in his scumreads, but where is the work to show how he got here? It isn't. Because it is a made up read.

Okay, do you think Gin or Rakan are scum?

I'm thinking wisdom/raken could be the team.

But then he back tracks from his scumreads entirely! His reads mean nothing. Elements is the epitome of Words are Wind. He is situationally giving reads on people. He is doing this to be able to join the wagon du jour.

The problem with going for a pacifist ending is that there are no chances to reevaluate and that is very extremely horribly bad for town. No flip games have an obscenely high scum win percentage for that very reason; the chance that we get it 100 percent right on our first try is not great but with the chance to reassess our win % improves

HEAL: Oversoul

notice whats wrong here?

you raise a very good point here
HURT: nacho
anything to say nacho?

Another backtrack from his "scumlist". I do not know how he can claim he was scumreading Xayah when he didn't put any pressure on her and immediately goes after others with much more vigor than he ever went after Xayah.

HURT: xayah
Mastina, before xayah was spared who did you think was scum?

Here he is trying to gauge Mastina to see who he can bring to LyLo. Plain and simple. He wants to know who Mastina has suspected throughout the game to see if he can use that information to his advantage.

What do you think is the biggest point in your favor for you being town (to both of you)

I have said that I scum read xayah since day two.
In comparison Oversoul did not give any reads on xayah until she was confirmed scum.

As you can see that Xayah "scumread" from Elements is complete and utter bollocks. If he legitimately scumread her, he would not have moved his vote off her right after he placed it on her. He also would actually say he scumreads her other than listing her in a meaningless list.

Elements is grasping at straws to make himself look town. Most visibly he is trying to grasp on this scum read of Xayah when in reality he did not scumread Xayah.

[Elements]

Interesting how you have such an in depth knowledge of why the chennis kill happened. Almost as if you did it. Because you did. That's the point I'm making. Oversoul killed Chennis.

[Elements]

Every game I've played and where I've been set up for a mislynch it has been hard backed by the scum team because of a night kill them made specifically to incriminate me.
How many games have you played where scum killed the people scum reading them to get that voice out of the game?
Now compare that to the number of games where scum make kills based on activity and affinity to set up mislynches.
You were in the last undertale game chem, my kills were in no way based off who scum read me and my partner.
This play oversoul is making is exactly what happened in Newbie Quoteswhere the night kill was made purely to incriminate me.

[Elements]

Think about how I've been playing this game. Scum don't flip flop. I've been flip flopping most of the game which has drawn attention to myself. Scum don't want to draw attention to them self, it makes it more likely for them to be caught.
What you have to think bout now chemist is not "who has played the most scummy" but "who has been trying to be more townie". Just by being scum you're more paranoid about appearing scummy so you make an effort to look like town whereas when you're town you know everything comes from a town perspective and make less of an effort to avoid being scummy.

[Oversoul]

Interesting how you have such an in depth knowledge of why the chennis kill happened. Almost as if you did it. Because you did. That's the point I'm making. Oversoul killed Chennis.

Huh? Everything I said was about you. Chennis wasn’t scumreading me. I had no reason to kill him.

[Oversoul]

Every game I've played and where I've been set up for a mislynch it has been hard backed by the scum team because of a night kill them made specifically to incriminate me.
How many games have you played where scum killed the people scum reading them to get that voice out of the game?
Now compare that to the number of games where scum make kills based on activity and affinity to set up mislynches.
You were in the last undertale game chem, my kills were in no way based off who scum read me and my partner.
This play oversoul is making is exactly what happened in Newbie Quoteswhere the night kill was made purely to incriminate me.

This is so far fetched. It would be ridiculous to try to incriminate you from day 1. That would mean for 5 days scum Xayah and me have planned for 3P LyLo with you in it specifically. Scum do not do that. They do triage. They kill the most immediate threats. They don’t sit there and try to plan something so many days in advance when games have so many variables that could totally mess up those plans.

As scum I never plan more than a single day in advance. Which is more reasoning that I’m town with how the whole failed spare into Xayah spare took place. If I was scum I just spare myself. It’s really that simple.

[Oversoul]

Think about how I've been playing this game. Scum don't flip flop. I've been flip flopping most of the game which has drawn attention to myself. Scum don't want to draw attention to them self, it makes it more likely for them to be caught.
What you have to think bout now chemist is not "who has played the most scummy" but "who has been trying to be more townie". Just by being scum you're more paranoid about appearing scummy so you make an effort to look like town whereas when you're town you know everything comes from a town perspective and make less of an effort to avoid being scummy.

Elements I have been less scummy than you AND playing more townie than you. I just proved that your Xayah scumread that you have had since Day 2 was a lie. You’re clutching at that like a life preserver when you never actually acted on it.

[Chemist1422]

I’ll have some time soon to read through all of this

[Chemist1422]

Honestly I’m even more lost after reading that ugh

[Oversoul]

Even if you don’t believe my case on elements at least believe Mastina and Nacho’s cases on me since they have already flipped town

I don’t know if that would help you but if I was in your situation it would help me

[Chemist1422]

Spare Votecount 3.2

Nachomamma8 -

Elements ------

mastina --------

Xayah ---------

Oversoul ------

(3)

Oversoul, Nachomamma8, mastina

Wisdom -

(1)

Xayah

Chemist1422 -

Not sparing:

- (3) Elements, Wisdom, Chemist1422

Fight Votecount 3.2

Nachomamma8 -

(3)

Wisdom, Elements, Xayah,

Elements -----

mastina -

Xayah -

Oversoul ----

Wisdom -

Chemist1422 -

Not Fighting:

- (5) mastina, Nachomamma8, Wisdom, Chemist1422

<3<3<3<3

3>3>3>

(expired on 2019-10-31 21:06:42)

Okay yeah this does look really good for Oversoul

[Chemist1422]

Honestly the thing that’s giving me the most pause is that Over seems to know exactly what to say

[Oversoul]

Wut. What does that mean lol

[Chemist1422]

Wut. What does that mean lol

It’s like you have a plan basically

[Chemist1422]

Time to ISO a Maria scum game

brb

[Elements]

Chemist, we can't lose two back to back lylos where we're both town.

[Chemist1422]

Chemist, we can't lose two back to back lylos where we're both town.

wow you’re really gonna play that card

[Elements]

Chemist, we can't lose two back to back lylos where we're both town.

wow you’re really gonna play that card

Didn't want to, but idk what else to say that I haven't already.

[Oversoul]

How can you accuse me of AtE when you just used the most AtE thing in the game :/

Chemist what makes you think this is a plan? You think I planned to bring exactly you two to LyLo? From day 1? Don’t you see how complicated that gets? X_x I am restraining myself from going full blown AtE like I did in baton Pass but ugh. I’ll just repeat it. I hate LyLo.

[Chemist1422]

How can you accuse me of AtE when you just used the most AtE thing in the game :/

Chemist what makes you think this is a plan? You think I planned to bring exactly you two to LyLo? From day 1? Don’t you see how complicated that gets? X_x I am restraining myself from going full blown AtE like I did in baton Pass but ugh. I’ll just repeat it. I hate LyLo.

Yeah we all do

The thing about the plan is that you managed to get an entire wall of thins accusing Elements which is honestly something

[Chemist1422]

Okay I ISO’d Maria in a semi-recent scumgame (MLP mafia) and her treatment of implo there was actually very similar to her treatment of Over this game

I’m not done reading it but there’s similarities with the push on them being the majority of their content, and being willing to switch back and forth but never dropping the scumread

[Oversoul]

But MariaR did drop her scumread on me yesterday didn’t she?

[Chemist1422]

But MariaR did drop her scumread on me yesterday didn’t she?

No she self-voted yesterday