Newbie 1963 - Game Over

[the worst]

oh hi you guyssss
DMing a dnd game. I'll catch up soon.

[the worst]

before i go:

The replacement is literally the worst! :c

mood tbh

[the worst]

I’m sad there were no rvs wagons. I’ve got a townlean in gardenia a bit. Not crazy about gyros, they need some more tzarziki. Interested to see what fish is doing.

and with that teacher wins my vanity rvs townread!

Fishy vs. Chibiie on pg. 3 is something I'd like to call JUST SILLY. it's such a silly conversation. the silliness is aggressive. as of pg. 3 I have a notable lack of a townread on Fishy. no real read on Chibs through this either but I don't know him as well so idk if I should be forming a read on him this early or not. Are they scum together? Maybe. Is there a townie in this convo? Maybe. Is this convo just silly? Absolutely.

okay speaking non-duck: they both posted quite a lot and imo neither towntold thru the conversation; I'm marking this as weakly +scum

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I might step on your toes a bit, but thats on purpose.

Why would you warn scum and tell them what the questions can be used for? What advantage do you get out of that?

It was unspoken but if you're asking this for the same reason I asked this: the SvS possibility floated past my brain as well

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Crunchy /ˈkrʌntʃi/
Adjective
To defend yourself with aggressive posts.

I coined the term from CapnCrunch, someone in my old newbgames who basically had a "Crunchy" playstyle. The link is actually an ISO.

Mindmeld w the saladman27 here - I didn't really get the "crunchy" thing at first but I like this term

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VOTE: <>{

(this is a fishy - VOTE: formerfish if it's not counted)

at the end of pg 5 and I like this

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Uncrowned and JacksVir:why vote Gyro? (Jacks, if you have reasoning past "not explaining his naked vote on ff" I would appreciate it)

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no

sorry Jacksy - just read this post. mostly wanna hear from Uncrowned aorn.

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Gyro/Fish are a SvS

don't dislike this take - I think in this kind of scenario it's better to stay on the scumbag you're more confident in flipping scum. I don't really have much of a read on gyro atm and I think Fishy is explicitly scummy. I think Gyro's vote makes sense as either distancing, or because he's read the thread, seen that Fishy is a massive scumbag and voted him.

Not town indicative for Gyro
But it makes me want to lynch Mr. Fishy more and work back from there

Just food for thought; I'm seeing trajectory to your Gyro vote.

[the worst]

Fuzanglong - basic tonal read would be town but I don't think they've really done much alignment indicative; good slot to revisit

Gyro Zeppeli - doesn't give a fuck how he's perceived which gives me a bit of pause. mentality is probably town tho. fwiw I've found his posts heavily relatable and think they probably come from a solving mindset who isn't super invested/doesn't feel the need to be townread, rather than a scum mindset who wants to force an agenda but post little enough that he's not mislynched. his takes haven't been popular. they've gone against the grain. but ngl they've aligned more with how I've been seeing things. looks like a dude who's been spending more time looking for scum than sitting on the thread tryna be townread; this is prolly town most of the time.

bugspray - I think bugspray is pretty towny tbh his thought processes don't feel forced. the entire "to defend self or not to defend self?" argument from my pred was not something I was a big fan of and I don't think it was necessary; Bugs if scum also isn't using the situation to try and draw attention to his great towniness!!, nor is he taking notes on how to better handle the town. there's no survivalism there. he's doing his thing. as of d1 scum survival is substantially more important to their wincon than town's is to town's wincon. bugs' iso is just pretty pure. I also think I could see the thought process with his early scumteamreads; it's not a strat that's mathematically valuable in using early-game (just lynch scum!!) but I think the approach is solvey. it also systematically alienates like 4 slots which is... not something a scum mindset usually does. imo the wagon on him was sketchy and the gamestate stalling while he was wagon indicates scum were likely happy with it happening. lots of small things but I think he's probably just town.

Uncrowned - mmm not sure

JacksonVirgo - this is probably town; quoted readlist and realtime interactions smell like real thoughts. I'll check this but feels good.

gardenia - early-game firm townread but I'm not really sure; her attention recently being more focused on shading players when it's in vogue was a bit pingy. need more gard in my life but tentatively >rand town

teacher - normally I'm the one panicking about a "deepwolf" teacher (deepwolf is scum/wolf who is difficult to lynch and/or widely townread) - and I think he's my firmest townread here. unless he's suddenly turning into a strong intuitive scum player I think the reads he's spat out here have been critical in a way I don't think teacher can form as scum as quickly/effortlessly as he can as town. his swiftness in doing it and constant pressure with a tangible trajectory makes me think town.

the worst - is a very cute ducky, give him bread

Formerfish - is top-posting this game yet has done nearly nothing; his reads are superficial and his pushes struck me as constantly being on players who are in vogue to push. he's added pressure to slots sure but he's added pressure to VULNERABLE slots and he's largely done this through a style of snarky shading; he wants to make people look bad but isn't all that interested in actually forcing them to pump out alignment indicative info. he looks like a scumbag. :u



pedit: yoink

[the worst]

Gyro/Fish are a SvS

don't dislike this take - I think in this kind of scenario it's better to stay on the scumbag you're more confident in flipping scum. I don't really have much of a read on gyro atm and I think Fishy is explicitly scummy. I think Gyro's vote makes sense as either distancing, or because he's read the thread, seen that Fishy is a massive scumbag and voted him.

Not town indicative for Gyro
But it makes me want to lynch Mr. Fishy more and work back from there

Just food for thought; I'm seeing trajectory to your Gyro vote.

You are missing a lot and it means you're likely scum here. Town you wouldn't be making this push on me at all.

You wanna die ducky?

was still catchin up qt
wanna jam about stuff I'm missing? I feel like I have a pretty good grasp so far.

[the worst]

{tw}
{teacher, bugsy}
{gyro > jacks, gard}
{fuzang, uncrowned}
{fishy}


keep forgetting fuzang is here that's not good

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Pedit is a preview edit; someone posted before me so I edited my post in preview mode.

In my case I realised fishy took the page bottom post so I edited in a "yoink" for the pagetop.

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That is definitely something I would do as a secret scumbag. Luckily I'm town this time.

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Little stronger town on Gyro

[the worst]

duck quackin'
teacher teachin'
things are as they should be

[the worst]

yeah but mostly at a ~good vibe~ level in the spur of the moment. Putting him a whole tier higher felt kind of weirddd because I don't think he's actually don't things that are super towny and hard to fake as scum, I just see his mindset as more likely town than scum.

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It's hard to townread another slot over yourself tbf but I getchu. I wrote up my paragraph on Gyro last thing before I slipped out of the thread before so I think I've done that thing to myself where my last memory of him was warm fuzzy feelings; still think he's town but I'm also aware I'm slightly tunnelling myself into townreading him tonight.

how are you feeling about Mr. Fishy aorn? any thoughts on my idea of pushing the scum who is easier to read correctly and hunting back from there?

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Yeah nice. Former is scum, friends.

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I think gyro is a mislynch.

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teacher: assuming I die tonight I'm outsourcing powerlynching Fishy to you. please do the right thing by me :<

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VOTE: Formerfish

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I called Fishy out for scumplay and explained why I thought Gyro was a mislynch. Rather than engage with this in good faith, Fishy waits for L-1 then lolhammers to end the phase and cut out conversation.

Coming into d2 he suggests I night-killed Bugspray because I'm scum and I want to set Formerfish up. I can explain why that suggestion is absurd and disingenuous if anyone would like.

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Quacker, I’d rather revisit 575 - that’s a fairly row sided readslist. Could you dig deeper on uncrowned, JV, and fuzzy?

those are the slots I have the least confident reads on; given d1 ended like 12 hours after I got here and coming into d2 two of my townreads are flipped town and my strong scumread is still alive and my surviving strong townread is softing cop I haven't evaluated these like. at all yet.

576 has weighting btw if that helps

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Teacher/Bug lol

You're half right. Touch the wrong half and I'll cut you.

Tone it down, FF. We get it.

Ducky, explain what this post might mean.

you tpr one of bugs/teach? idk. I didn't really clock the post in my catchup and don't see whatever datisi is replying to there, no.

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~ resounding lack of counter-claim ~

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scum ducky is super fun to play with. sorry for being so dry.

I'm not gonna pretend to have god reads off a rushed 12 hour catchup and the fact you expect me to have like read a specific interaction between you and my pred and anticipated it a certain way and also have a scumbuddy who didn't draw my attention to it and also be scum for that is absurd. :/

[the worst]

that is literally "I don't like your behaviour rn therefore you are aligned with the mafia". you also then think datisi was aligned with the mafia. take a step backwards and try harder Fishy. I don't believe town!you gets so caught up about such a silly thing.

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Ducky, understood on the reads. Just know I will be expecting them over the course of today.

wouldn't have it any other way
jsyk I will be partnerhunting for fishy unless he's literally cleared because I am not in a position where I feel even slightly wrong.

[the worst]

that is literally "I don't like your behaviour rn therefore you are aligned with the mafia". you also then think datisi was aligned with the mafia. take a step backwards and try harder Fishy. I don't believe town!you gets so caught up about such a silly thing.

Dont talk down to me about my play, thats not going to end well for you in this game.

You dont realize that you are the donkey at the table and my cards are the nuts. Fold or go all in big guy.

What do you think I'm doing? I looked at your ISO, see an absence of towntells, some real slimy looking stuff, and I think you're scum for it.

My 3 townreads off my rushed catchup are now all confirmed town. if you're town I'm not even close to "99% incorrect"; so I need you to show me. Please cut out the bravado dude. I'll cool it too. We've had too many good games together to play the defamation game.

[the worst]

I don’t have a clear, I have a guilty, so I’d rather you try to read pure to the extent you can because I’m looking at how people play around certain slots (tbc, my result is not necessarily in those three. But I want people to react to those three, for ....reasons..... that are a bit complex)

of course - v easy to find partners on rereads of a d2 guilty.

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What was i in the Ali treestump game, did you read me correctly there?

Yes, then no, then yes, then I suspected you were vig - overall I did fine. You showed some stuff there that's outside of your scumrange and I think your interactions with Chibz here miiiiight have blocked you from exhibiting similar tells here but regardless: I don't think you've done a thing outside your scumrange. And I don't think what you *have* done is actually all that towny.

What are my town tells to you? Because I havent seen you show a proficiency in reading me at all bro.

I'm not interested enough in meta to claim proficiency in reading. I believe that we're friends and I'd rather have a sincere straightforward conversation about what we're seeing here, rather than what we've both been doing: if we're t/t, there's a respectful way to have this conversation without either of us being alien.

Do you think you've shown towntells here which I should have picked up on? (particularly given my dubious proficiency in reading you)

pedit: what he said
UNVOTE:

[the worst]

Again not claiming god reads off a rushed catchup - I like to think my townreads are quite good when I do them firsthand but it can be hard to tell scum from people who aren't doing towny things. if you think I should be seeing something specific point it out - otherwise I'm happy to interact with my nulls and resume this later.

[the worst]

I am too At Work to reread your ISO rn but again, we can resume this later in the phase / d3 (obv. before lylo)

[the worst]

We can resume it when I FEEL LIKE IT fishy

[the worst]

Fishy
chill

we got other slots to handle

[the worst]

How did ducky have such a good townread on that slot when he has admitted his reads are shit so far?

bruh my townreads have been 3/3 so far
like mechanically

not even close to shit: just not confident on the balance. if you wanna sell me that you're town, hmu.

gonna need you to play the game without this confbias nonsense fam bc it's impossible to read you thru it. suspect our 1v1 resolves itself by d3 like clockwork.

[the worst]

Tbh I also agree with Jackson though FF, you're being very aggressive and day 2 barely started,,, esp to someone who called a mislynch on gyro :/
Not voting just yet, but I'm scumleaning FF and will wait for teacher (and others to respond) too

jsyk our townie mindsets show more if we DON'T lean on teacher to produce content now that he's IC'd but has a decent chance of dying tonight - we should be talking amongst ourselves rather than overfocusing on there being a guilty

let's say I have an inno on Mr. Fishy - hypothetically ofc - where would you go in {JV, tw, Uncrowned}?

sounds like you think my read on gyro yday was towny? I think it was but I'm interested to see why you think so.

[the worst]

bruh my townreads have been 3/3 so far
like mechanically

So hard for scum to get trs right...

why are you you being so grating this game dude

[the worst]

Spoiler: fish

What was i in the Ali treestump game, did you read me correctly there?

Yes, then no, then yes, then I suspected you were vig - overall I did fine. You showed some stuff there that's outside of your scumrange and I think your interactions with Chibz here miiiiight have blocked you from exhibiting similar tells here but regardless: I don't think you've done a thing outside your scumrange. And I don't think what you *have* done is actually all that towny.

What are my town tells to you? Because I havent seen you show a proficiency in reading me at all bro.

I'm not interested enough in meta to claim proficiency in reading. I believe that we're friends and I'd rather have a sincere straightforward conversation about what we're seeing here, rather than what we've both been doing: if we're t/t, there's a respectful way to have this conversation without either of us being alien.

Do you think you've shown towntells here which I should have picked up on? (particularly given my dubious proficiency in reading you)

pedit: what he said
UNVOTE:

Again not claiming god reads off a rushed catchup - I like to think my townreads are quite good when I do them firsthand but it can be hard to tell scum from people who aren't doing towny things. if you think I should be seeing something specific point it out - otherwise I'm happy to interact with my nulls and resume this later.

We can resume it when I FEEL LIKE IT fishy

Fishy
chill

we got other slots to handle

How did ducky have such a good townread on that slot when he has admitted his reads are shit so far?

bruh my townreads have been 3/3 so far
like mechanically

not even close to shit: just not confident on the balance. if you wanna sell me that you're town, hmu.

gonna need you to play the game without this confbias nonsense fam bc it's impossible to read you thru it. suspect our 1v1 resolves itself by d3 like clockwork.

these are all attempts to engage with you about the game in good faith rather than trying to advance a pissing contest, Fishy. I don't feel any more onus to "engage with you in [better] faith". If I'm wrong on you and you don't feel it's fair, I'd really enjoy working with you again. I'm not really enjoying your tact this phase.

pedit: I have limited interest in your ISO but will do a reread when I have more time/when it's more urgent to sort you accurately. If we're both town we have a pool to find two scum in. If we scumread each other we have partner hunting to do. There's more important stuff here.

Do you think I'm smart town when I need to be?

[the worst]

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I forgot eth0s is in this game tbh

[the worst]

Sadly hunting for mislynches / town by gamestate isolation ("they have no allies itt therefore they're likely town") doesn't really work after that tell has been discussed in a game. Gyro was that townie this game. We're gonna need to get more creative.

[the worst]

ick

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I'm gonna chill out a bit because regardless of your alignment, the way you're steering the thread atm doesn't interest me. I don't play mafia to try and vca isolated vote counts, or angleshoot scum equity in replacements. There's much more fun had in social deception and looking at contextual vca.

Fishy if you're town you're kind of alienating rn; let's let eth0s get here, and let him and the other newbie slots talk a bit more.

[the worst]

sigh.

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Talking policy for a moment: I know teacher quite well and he's either just a cop, or has been setting this up from the start of day one as scum. If he's also been trying to look as towny as possible (i.e. likely setting himself up to win lylo and endgame), where a cop gambit would be better executed by a more vulnerable scumbuddy. Ergo he's very likely actually claiming cop. Claiming a true guilty d2 is also optimal play as a cop.

Basically we're not doubting teacher d2 at all. If someone can use the setup to counter-claim and prove his role doesn't exist, we can reevaluate. Otherwise we all play the game until he outs his guilty, partnerhunt from there, lynch the guilty, and then town win happy end.

So no shading teach - if you need to counter-claim do it in your next post. Otherwise treat him as conftown and work on the rest of the slots.

[the worst]

I kinda follow you, but I still think it could be a factor? There's something about the pressure on FF that I'm not liking, especially from Fuz, since it's the first time she's coming out to say anything with substance against another player.

This is more creative, and something I agree with. Standing behind a vocal 1v1 (particularly if fishy/me is t/t) does make a lot of sense from scum!fuz.

There's a reason I have her south of null. Imo her play on d1 as well was very passive (I keep forgetting she's here :c sorry Fuz)

@Fuz

- any chance of a full read list? If you have players you're not sure on yet it's ok to mark them null.

[the worst]

From my current point of view, FF seems like the scummiest person here; if you have a problem deal with it
VOTE: Formerfish

just to compare: JV diving in with the vote here is a markerly more aggressive stance. JV also feels generally unapologetic for his read.

Normally I'd pin this is fairly town indicative but the "ig you have a problem deal with it" gives me like the tiniest bit of pause

basically I think JV is townier than Fuz which doesn't really come as much of a surprise to me.

I don't think Uncrowned/Fuz is a likely scumteam after #719 tbf. I think I had Uncrowned down to look at based off partner equity with Fish which I think I still want to be pretty wary of; I think I can say in a world where Fish is town I don't think Uncrowned has a particularly scummy scumbuddy

While I'm at it: sorry to drag you into the fray teacher, do you think I should be townreading Fishy? Not going down trust tell territory but if you think my d1 misread was stupid I'll shelf it.

[the worst]

problem w this is JV is being completely earnest and that still doesn't tell me anything further abt his alignment

[the worst]

their alignment** sorry
mobileposter, kinda went jacks=>he/him in my head

[the worst]

maybe - I agree I don't like the "haha I need to catch up : )" posts but like he actually hasn't been online so I'm not really inclined to bite at the first one.

JV *might* be scum - sights more heavily set on Fuz aorn

[the worst]

I'll explain why post-game Fuz - pretend Fishy and teacher are masons (or fishy and I are masons, if you'd prefer) for a moment. Can you see a scumteam which excludes Mr. Fishy?

[the worst]

@Fuz any chance of a tiered readlist?
If it can incorporate how strongly you feel about your townreads that would help me quite a lot

As a format I often use:

mechanically confirmed town

{names}

townread

{names}

townleans

{names}
null/unsure {names}

scumleans

{names}

scumreads

{names}

confident scum / mechanically scum

{names}

(or a variation on this )
if you don't like this layout that's totally fine, any will do, just I'm mostly interested in seeing the weighting of your townreads right now.

[the worst]

fairly spicy nk

I have a very minor nka theory but I'm holding off til later aorn. It also might make you grind your teeth.

[the worst]

sigh
I have something I'll talk about post-game
it's not interesting/AI just something on my min

[the worst]

What's a mason?

Masons are 2 or more players who are told at the start of the game that each other are town aligned. They share a private topic. So they're like the "opposite" of a scumteam..they're a townteam.

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Also what is NAI

Not Alignment Indicative
means it's inconclusive whether or not someone doing something actually makes them town or scum.

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--on a side note I think this implicates at least one newb as the scumteam, probably 2, because why kill bugspray after they VT slipped?--

Goddamnit eth0s. This was my spicy observation. One more thing to say on the subject.

[the worst]

teacher can we finally move on?

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--on a side note I think this implicates at least one newb as the scumteam, probably 2, because why kill bugspray after they VT slipped?--

Goddamnit eth0s. This was my spicy observation. One more thing to say on the subject.

And that is? Like if I didn’t know better, I’d say you’ve been playing your town game to. T, especially with the welcoming newb/tryharding. But here I do and it’s coming across a little laminate/pockety, ya dig?

I'm waiting for you to be done so I can talk gamestate without ruining what you're trying to do. I agree this hasn't been outside my scumrange. Waiting on you to finish your gambit is kinda boring and I'm not going to towntell by making superficial observations about other players.

I'm trying to draw content out of the slots that are irking me, and holding off on analysis until you're done with the FPS stuff. I can see how I come across as laminate and, I'm going to appear a little 2d when there's certain slots which I'm not comfortable engaging with until you're done.

Not sure "pockety" is fair given sod2 but you do you, bro. Just let me know when you're ready to resume playing mafia.

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Eth0s if you're scum, that opening was very clever.

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It's good if you're town too
but if scum, very very clever

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I know this is a bit unorthodox but can you explain this to me? I know teacher said it but it's about you, you apparently understood it, and I'm more interested in you than him.

I have something I'd like to say about it before the phase ends regardless.

I think he was just commenting that my ~spicy~ factor decreased a lot this phase. I think I see what's going on, so I'm kind of biting my tongue. So I think that's what he's seeing an can understand that. It is valuable in making me look bad but unfortunately not really useful in sorting my alignment.

So I totally get why you're kinda baffled by it as well.

If you're scum I'll commend what I liked post-game I think your catchup comes from town more often tho

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@Fishy I can see why JV is like this, as either alignment. More interested in Fuz rn. I'll circle back to this.

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intent to hammer

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actually
VOTE: jv

I am the doctor.

As there is no cc to teacher he's the cop and this is just scum
d3 party here we come

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N1 kill heavily suggests we're looking at an inexperienced scumteam. Bugs was fairly obvtown and I agree that the flip makes Fishy look slightly bad at an optic level - but realistically bugs had vtslipped and outside of like, me heavily defending him, I don't think bugs was really the type of NK that happens from someone plotting gamestate manipulation or PR hunting y'know?

I agree w eth0s assertion that we're looking at 1-2 newbies as scum. if he's scum himself it's clever distancing from the slot's previous occupant. but I'm leaning town on the slot anyway.

I thought you might be going for a different gambit hence freezing up a bit today. That's why I claimed just now.

I have to sleep rn - whoever is left should be able to find the partner pretty easy in d3.

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@JV: I'll talk more about it post-game. I think this kind of conversation in detail can mess with the integrity of the game a bit more than it should, sorry.

Also sorry you feel salty - I think there's a conversation to be had after the game ends.

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A cop guilty is a cop guilty tbf - I am pretty sure you're also hammered.

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Say we're in twilight - who's scum?

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teacher is like confirmed town via my role existing btw + not having been counterclaimed yet; a scumteam with me in it exists but not one with him in it and he's the one with a guilty on you

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If it's untrue basically he must be gambiting.
Can you see a solve?

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Yeah it's best not to be salty. Sorry if you were unfairly the victim of a gambit but I think there's a Conversation to be had post-game

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Okay, so if newb!scum is true I understand why I am being lynched, I don't believe the red-check was on me as well so the teacher vote on me was likely because of the way I treated the red-checked player or it's a bluff. Fuz/Uncrowned are the only newb players that come to mind so check and get a read on them while I am in the afterlife lol

Sounds good. I'll probably fall asleep soon but hopefully the mod doesn't check in for a while.

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Yes you are allowed til the flip is announced

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It's good times for dramatic fast solving.

@fishy I'm surprised you didn't pick it up in my ISO

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MAGIC

would you mind revisiting those slots you mentioned? even if it's just like the impressions you have on the first few things you see it'll help a lot

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If I'm here d3 I'll avenge the hell outta you <3
but quick before you go help me find the scums

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Fishy you cannot seriously think I'm actually this obtuse as scum

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Reread my ISO around sod2 and if you can't pick the moment I realised you and teacher were masons in realtime you need your lens prescription checked. I literally went from hard pushing you to saying we could resume it when the mood struck me and then asked teacher whether I should be sleeping his townread on you. I have no idea how I could have crumbed it more obviously and tried harder to save your asses from eating a n2.

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Sorry JV you're not hammered. I fakehammered while putting you at L-1. If you're town and want to towntell quickly, just keep posting everything you're thinking tonight. It'll help.

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vote my partner, teacher.

if you think I don't brutally comb rvs for crumbs like this fishy idk what to think. if you think I kill bugs n1 here I don't know what to think. I'm still in awe you missed my crumbing earlier in this phase and *actually* thought I would counter-claim as doctor after realising you guys were masons for any reason other than trying to eat a NK.

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But you’re better than to lose site of the count or think I wouldn’t call out an L-1 in the newb (though tbh I shouldn’t be faking a guilty either).

Were you hammer-testing or did you just give up pushing what you knew you couldn’t lynch and decide to pocket/lamist

Hammertest - the guilty flew. It'd been long enough since a vc I was aware I could get away with faking an intent=>hammer and try to get a reaction outta JV. I'd written up a post about waiting for a vc before placing a vote then went for the fancier Route.

Not super proud of it but yeah. The cop guilty is definitely more irritating in a newbie game.

VOTE: Fuz this one probably actually hits red btw Jacks response is pure unless they realised I was hammertesting. they just need to keep posting imo.

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But here’s the thing, Duck. The doc claim only appears surface level town. Like you could use that argument, just like you did. But it depends on me hitting scum with my “guilty”. And scum!yoh could m ow whether or not I did that before claiming doctor.

indeed
but you accept that it's either

town me trying to eat a NK, or
scum me trying to look like I'm trying to eat a nk

right? do you want me to go through my ISO and show you the moment I noticed you and fishy were masons?

I'm actually arrogant enough to say I think my scumgame is good enough to try and join in your gambit as scum, so I'd call my claim net NAI. We could work off the rest of my play instead?

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cop guilty is definitely more irritating in a newbie game.

Agree. I need to step away for a bit like I did in June. I’ve been unfun recently.

I've been enjoying playing with you a lot, lately, though in fairness we haven't played together prior since like... before June. The crux of what I wanted to say post-game is if I were a newbie in this gamestate I think I'd be a bit disheartened as either alignment. I do think Fuz's posting in particular has had a frozen tonality which I would actually expect from scum who risk being cornered by a guilty - so it might have been of some use

[the worst]

Also, se!scum should theoretically know counter claiming a guilty is the highest ev.

But duck, if the facepalm is when you solved it, why do you think you missed it before? I would have thought the “brother” “master” “robe duty” “mystical” “partner” “wrong half” breadloaves were more than enough for a quacker like you even before FF explained his hammer.

I'm wondering how much we've played together suddenly - I low-key hate combing for mechanical/crumb stuff unless I like explicitly need to. I literally didn't try until fishy hit me on the head with a stale baguette d2. You probably won't take my word for it but it's one of my most insidious towntells.

I just recently finished a game where Egix used a find a word on "MEDIC" in like one of his first posts, I read his ISO like 5 times and still scumread him for it until it was pointed out to me.

[the worst]

cop guilty is definitely more irritating in a newbie game.

Agree. I need to step away for a bit like I did in June. I’ve been unfun recently.

I disagree. We cooked that Gambit up together and I think we have the ability to do that because of our roles. You may not like it, but that's an after game discussion. You could easily be scum here negging our play to pluck our heart strings and AtE the fuck out of us.

...which is why I've downplayed how distasteful that gambit is and focused on solving the game until literally this post.

Sure thing, Fishy.

[the worst]

Me too. I'm just caught up in the flood of Things in this game. It's been bottlenecked for so longgggg we can finally play mafia.

[the worst]

While I'm at it: sorry to drag you into the fray teacher, do you think I should be townreading Fishy? Not going down trust tell territory but if you think my d1 misread was stupid I'll shelf it.

@fishy I'm surprised you didn't pick it up in my ISO

Out of interest did you guys pick up what I was going for here? The claim probably wasn't needed :{

[the worst]

My reads thus far

Town Leans

Datisi

- Liked his slot when Salad was playing it. Unvoted me when fast wagon occured, seemed like a town play. Questions and digs for info in his posts.

FormerFish

- Aggressive townplay imo, made a good connection in post 118 between bugspray's former slot (Chib) and a past game they had played.

Teacher

- I like the logic behind post 102 with the whole idea of "how does this benefit town?". I'm leaning toward Teacher/Fish being a TvT situation.

Gardenia

- After reading back, I like post 150 - except for including Fish in the trio, since he voted Teacher way before back on Page 1. I believe the vote on me was when we started "redoing" the RVS.

Null

Jackson Virgo

- Would like to see more activity. Don't really like his assessment of my vote on Gyro in Post 222 but I don't think that means anything.

Bugspray

- I don't mind this slot, since Chib was at least attempting to get things to progress earlier in the game. Fish's point about this slot in post 118 is a good one, but I'm not certain it's scum indicative.

Scum Leans

Marionette

- Little input, random vote on Teacher seemed out of place. Admittedly, we were redoing the RVS, but Teacher had been one of the more active players up until that point, so voting him without saying anything is odd to me.

Gyro

- Don't like his votes (Teacher, Gardenia) nor his reasoning in Post 140. Seems like a reach. Would like more reads and depth from his posts. A majority of them aren't helpful to town imo.

JV, one question for ya when you're up if you don't mind: you mentioned this being mediocre, could you unpack that a little?

It was posted pretty early in the game so I can understand why it's not a strong, high probability of accuracy readlist for sure. But do you think it's underwhelming in a way that makes it fake, or is it equally/more likely to just come from someone trying their best at a point in the game where there's not enough content to have concrete reads?

Sorry if this sounds a little abstract (and I'm fully risking coming across as condescending here so if I am, just give me a book). So to speak, town wincon is to find and lynch mafia, not to systematically lynch players who are underwhelming/underperforming. Mafia can be found by their need to make shit up in a way which is designed to look towny; the way they manipulate the gamestate in order to make themselves / partners hard to lynch and townies easy to mislynch; etc.

So besides finding the readlist underwhelming. Do you think Uncrowned is doing scummy things or things which benefit scum wincon?

I want a check on this because I like Uncrowned's d2.


pedit: hold on do we have 3 Aussies here? the fuck

[the worst]

We all need to sleep, mornings are the best time to lynch scums

[the worst]

I'm still so sad it was Gyro who died d1. I felt so good about that read :<

[the worst]

Fuz - there is rarely "evidence" that players are scum. That's what makes this game so delicious. At the moment consensus is that you are scum - most of us have spoken a fair bit as to why.

If we're wrong could you help us see it? - excluding yourself, teacher and Formerfish, could you tell me the strength of your reads roughly?

[the worst]

@teach- after the hammertest (JV's reaction wasn't scummy but wasn't super towny either) I literally coached JV on how to respond to what was happening in this thread and they took another path. THAT looked pure to me. No effort to try and pocket me when I reached out or change the way they presented after they were run to L-1 at a point when the thermometer of the game was soaring.

Not powerscum play but I think it comes a lot more often from town who is exasperated/somewhat isolated in the gamestate.

I'm stuck on mobile. was posting too fast to coach them effectively in realtime without a discord. the only suggestion I made was itt to post fast with all of their thoughts.

What's the point of this post? Who knows. JV and I aren't aligned but I don't think they're scum anyway.

[the worst]

Yeah if you have a townread outside of Fishy you have a solve from your pov.

I'm not totally comfortable calling a townread - tentatively it's still JV for sure posting yesterday but I also had Uncrowned town yesterday. I'm Wrong on one of these and I owe this game some more effort.

[the worst]

Yeah if you have a townread outside of Fishy you have a solve from your pov.

I'm not totally comfortable calling a townread - tentatively it's still JV for sure posting yesterday but I also had Uncrowned town yesterday. I'm Wrong on one of these and I owe this game some more effort.

If you're 50/50 of myself and uncrowned, you think Eth0s is scum yeah?

yup rn I'm swingin

{tw,fishy}
{jv}
{uncrowned}
{eth0s}

not in any real hurry though, I have lots of rereading and assertive quacking to do before this phase ends.

[the worst]

@fishy - I don't envy your task here. been in your boots and it stinks picking the entire scumteam with no mechanical advantage. if you still think there's a chance I'm a baddie, I want you to speak up and we can jam about it as soon as we're both on.

I earnestly think we can clean up my slot very quickly here.

[the worst]

Uncrowned doesn't have many posts at all and their readlist is mediocre at best, but I can't say shiz on that behalf lol

Also why are you set on Fuz being town?

This could be somewhat of a bus? I guess?


UNVOTE: FormerFish

So my read on the bluff was correct, and what do you mean by info I shouldn't have had?

List ripped from the alive list and removed all 'confirmed' people mainly the masons and myself.

Fuzanglong - Scum
Uncrowned - Scum
eth0s - Town
the worst - Town

If the scum insists of newb!scum it's Fuz and Uncrowned. And even I wouldn't have attacked bugspray as scum so I doubt the worst or eth0s would have but the other two may as well have.

@uncrowned I think JV had strong posts and posts which gave me pause around the hammer test but there's probably juicier stuff AFTER the hammertest

what do you think of these? can you see anything else in their ISO around here which makes you think they're scum?

agree a lot of YMMV around hammertesting but often posting during excited gamestate (e.g. after the hammertest here) forces townies to think fast and scum to improvise; which one do you think they were doing?

[the worst]

I think I need to dive an ISO to try and sort through my thoughts; I don't have a Strong Feeling the way I usually do at this point so at least one of you two is quite good scum. I think I was sidetracked by tunnelling Fishy d1 and loosely pegged Uncrowned as a potential Fishy buddy but yeah - if I'm not strongly committal on JV vs. Uncrowned in particular rn it's because I've been lax on my legwork.

I'm also fairly keen for Mr. Fishy to check in. Waiting on him isn't good play here it's just a side effect of my vanity.

[the worst]

eth0s I won't be isoing yet because I'm relying on him to come in here and create a tonne of snazzy content if he's town.

[the worst]

I'm gonna probably write up a heap of waffling about ISOs as I go, on a scale of 1 to 10 how much spam would y'all like? (allowing 90%+ of it is really not worth responding to)

[the worst]

ok here's my trello password --

[the worst]

actually given Uncr had an incorrect scumread yday and is forced to reevaluate you today I think the mindset of
"oh by POE I guess JV is scum..."
"oh that's a scumpost"
"oh that could be scum too"
"OH THIS IS SCUM"
checks as a town indicative mindset

obv. i'm not a mind reader (YET) and i'm still building a baseline mindset for uncr - but i don't think the trajectory there is actually scum indicative. him interacting with you like you're town while trying to lynch you defs wld be. but i think the active reconsideration/affirmation could p easily come from town

[the worst]

no dramas
what was your read on JV yday? i'm working thru your iso first so will know l8r but it's more useful to me now but i'm also making dinner

[the worst]

Spoiler: location: inside of duck's head; subject: uncrowned part 1

I think a no lynch is a bad idea, I'd rather get as much info as we can out of the early stage of the game.

I'm putting my vote on someone who hasn't posted yet.

VOTE: Gyro Zeppeli

Also you're a JoJo character so you're already intimidating me, you stud you.

there's a few factors here which make me explicitly not-townread this rvs:
- the nolynch commentary is surface level NAI but also side-steps an invisible 'call to action'. gard did something incorrect at a policy level but not necessarily alignment indicative; rvs is a good opportunity to assign an asinine motivation to such things (e.g. "she is scum because she refuses to alienate people! *vote*" or "i think she's town because scum would try to go with the flow"
- there IS a vote here which is an opportunity to advance the gamestate but it's thrown down without wariness of the gamestate. the vote is also overqualified (i.e. "I'm putting my vote on someone who hasn't posted yet.") and comes with a cute/flirty comment. this kinda equal probability comes from someone who is just cute and flirty or a guilty conscience (a kind of unconscious apology for voting there)

never been great at finding scum in rvs but i'm >rand finding town in rvs
just kinda... flat-to-nullscum on the opener


53 i don't like rqs (don't have much experience with it, normally i'm like "...mm ok?" and haven't really noticed any patterns with how scum/town answer certain things)
interesting takeaway is uncr being a ~kinda~ semi organised player i guess

1: Fish's playstyle is interesting to me, aggressive town is something seen often, but by drawing attention to himself he could be letting his teammate fly under the radar (assuming he has one).

a part of me kinda likes the paranoid waffling here but don't think it's strongly AI

2: Read back a few pages. Teacher, you said you got a townlean from Gardenia. Why?

this makes me want to check uncrowned's gard/eth0s slot trajectory; did a ctrl+f and there's a lot of mentions. kinda might be noteworthy that he talks a lot about gard when she's a hot subject but not when people aren't talking about her. but then he talks quite a lot about eth0s so i don't think this is enough to be A Tell. at this point in uncr's ISO i'd actually have him s/s with JV before eth0s

134 i can kinda feel the wheels turning but i don't think the post really alignment tells; i didn't really like the gyro push d1 bc it was a little purposeless. nullread on gard persists, no trajectory on fishy as of yet

this could be a post sidestepping two people he KNOWS are town or it could be a towny who isn't really sure how to progress the game
checks out from either
i kinda have a policy for forming lazy reads of "if you can see it from a town pov without bending yourself into a pretzel, hey it's probably just town" - at that surface analytical level i could see this as town.

it's kinda worth noting at this point uncr is playing friendly to chib/salad and doesn't ~townread~ fishy but is also playing friendly to him; the gyro SR is pretty easy to have (I think he is scum because he is not helping) and he isn't engaging with gard or JV. he talks around gard a fair bit but it's indirect at the start of the game. using this as framing for the first readlist which i'll talk abt in a bit more length...

I wanted to see your reasoning since I've got Gardenia still in my "null" category for now, at the time I hadn't really noticed anything from her that pointed me in either direction, personally.

As for your answer, it's okay. The reasoning makes sense, but I feel like the vote on Fish is the easiest one to make at the moment, since he's been the most aggressive player thus far.

this is like, worth reading but i don't think AI
will circle back when discussing the readlist

226 defensive tonality and still slowmoving; again could really come from either of {scum not sure how to move, town still tryna sink his teeth in}

Sure. Usually I hesitate to jump on the person who is being the "loudest in the room" as I feel like it's the obvious choice, especially for people who COULD be evil as the louder people are more likely to toss out accusations and make themselves appear more guilty in the process. However, most of my experiences with these aggressive types in other social deduction games is they've usually been either town trying to catch people slipping, or they're a jester (obviously this role list doesn't include that, so that's not a worry here)

However, I want to keep my mind open to the possibility of FF being a distraction for someone else assuming he has one. I see my mistake though, since the only way we'd even be able to figure that out would be via a lynch. Sitting on the fence in that scenario doesn't really make sense. I was hesitant to push since I'm not sure how that sort of thing plays out here. I'll commit to reading FF as an aggressive townie, rather than a scum at this stage.

And you're right, it is a bit odd. My only logic behind it is that Gardenia had been given a TL by two people I believe at that point (Teacher and Salad, who was in your slot before) whereas I had been read as null at that point and hadn't really been asked for my opinions. I'm starting to understand now that it'll be more helpful if I take an actual stance on things instead of waiting for others to do so.

Sure

this post kinda does two things;
firstly: uncrowned is called to evaluate his reads on fishy and gard.
secondly: the stance that pushing fishy as the noisy player was the "easy" thing to do - i actually found fishy's earlygame pretty scummy. it's totally possible this comes from a mindset which is itself nervous to push fishy but equally possible it's just a newbie to forum mafia.


readlist incoming:

My reads thus far

just a synopsis of thoughts:

my slot

- agree salad/datisi did a good job of propelling the game; this is fine/doesn't feel opportunistic or pockety

fishy

- i actually pegged this read for a partner when i was tunnelling fishy :/ the post in question is mason distancing; i didn't really get "aggressive townplay" but as mentioned just now i'm not really sure how i'd feel if i was a newbie in this game

teacher

- 102 is kinda towny on a policy/surface level; i'd actually call the "teacher/fish being a tvt" comment as a crumb he spotted the mason thing but i don't really get the impression he did

gardenia

- this read isn't telling me a lot... uncr sat firmly null on gard until called to action and others explained why they were townreading gard, but the readlist indicates he's felt the need to evaluate the slot firsthand (rather than just sheeping their reads). the qualifier around including fishy in the trio and just the language around "I believe the vote on me was when we started 'redoing' the RVS." might be kind of unintended distancing language but not a strong feeling vs. rest of his iso

JV

- policy level i LOVE jv pushing someone for pushing low activity! i don't expect uncr to like it tho; there isn't really a read on this slot. i feel like the jv post he talks about probably could have invoked some more energy if uncr was being pushed incorrectly. maybe

bugspray

- this nullread is fine

Marionette

- it is an interesting standard that mari is scum for randomvoting teacher but gard is town in spite of randomvoting uncr. ultimately i do agree the vote was kinda offbeat tho.

Gyro

- i don't think gyro really got a fair run d1 but i think i need to accept that the towntell i saw was pretty abstract, and that it's totally fair for town to make this misread.

from a wagonomics pov ultimate lynch wagon had 3+ town on it including the mason duo;

Gyro Zeppeli (5) - Uncrowned,

teacher

, JacksonVirgo,

Fuzanlong

,

Formerfish

so don't have a strong feeling on whether this read was opportunistic or not


this is one of those things the wiki tells us to never post but it's on my mind SO
if i was scum with anyone but uncrowned i think i'd be setting up an uncrowned/eth0s scumteam for the mislynch
the way his read on gardenia is sitting null until he's called to action on it and then pivots to a somewhat overqualified townread just looks v convenient if we operate in hindsight and if JV is town
that being said i don't actually really think the trajectory is super scum indicative; i can also attribute town motive to it so aorn i don't feel like i have a smoking gun

while i'm typing this i'm realising JV who i was hoping to talk to about it has gone afk; fishy still awol; i'll do some housework & resume ISO later.
i'm kinda hoping for a clear or a smoking gun or a partner clear. i kinda want to clear JV/uncr off the last couple of pages but i want to do more work on this. tl;dr working on the first ~10 pages i don't think uncr has strongly alignment told.

uncr if you feel i'm misrepresenting or misunderstanding anything pertinent, please chime in; if it's just playstyle/general mafia theory stuff just maybe have a think about whether it'll help sorting you or whether it's better to wait til endgame

if you're unsure i'd rather have the conversation than not have it

[the worst]

Hey guys, sorry for being away - that earlier thing really killed my mood/motivation for the game :/ I'm gonna try and get back into it though since it looks like things are picking up.

Here's my reads!
townlean
- datisi (Saladman27); salad was lower for me, but your reads/comments boosted you higher! I get good vibes off of you and feel like you're genuinely trying to help out.
- teacher; has asked a lot of questions and done a lot to progress the game. I'm not sure about him but a townlean for now.
- Uncrowned; was eh before but I liked your recent posts!

null/??? people
- bugspray (Chibiie); Chibiie posted a lot I think, but looking back on it, not a lot of it was game related. As for bugspray, I don't have much to go on but would like to hear more about your me and fish being mafia theory? I don't get what you said in 250 (fingers crossed the link works)
- JacksonVirgo (MedicalCoke); basically got a clean slate since coke posted nothing. Hasn't said that much so far so idk.
- Formerfish; Don't know why he's so high on the recent lists? A wildcard for me.

Scumlean
- Gyro Zeppeli; Ok maybe closer to null based on your recent posts, but I kinda didn't like your "haha don't care"ness when you were asked questions earlier (dodging?)
- Marionette; The teacher vote was weird and we still don't have any explanation :/

I probably missed some things so I'm also gonna look through the thread and see if there's anything else I can reply to!

at a surface level I think this is a fairly bad look for eth0s regardless of partner in jv/uncrowned

I'm kinda trotting back and forth around page 10 atm because I have this weird feeling Uncrowned's posts might be townier than I'm giving them credit for at like a pure tone / face value level; pinkie promise I'm going to get back to trying to draw his alignment out of his ISO.

[the worst]

she did the same for gyro and i

[the worst]

@teacher I like the reaction test, seems like a town move.

@gyro This is a game of reads, we need them for early game info.

I'm leaning towards changing my vote to Marionette soon if we don't get any input from her.

The reasoning here is kinda roughly fine but it's fairly surface level; the post @Gyro didn't really contain a call to action of any sort or an effort to prompt him into AI content just sorta... a comment about why he was incorrect. I think gyro largely wasn't given a prompt to play this game and was v much lynched on the basis of playing unconventionally so there is a lack of effort to actively sort Gyro. But I'm not convinced I would expect this of newbies to forum mafia.

Just noting Uncrowned has voted twice this game; and has been on both mislynches. He was first onwagon for Gyro and checking whether he champions the lynch or just kinda waits for it to happen might be valuable

Iirc his vote on Fuz was lateish; I'll check this too

[the worst]

If I recall correctly

[the worst]

VOTE: Fuz

Maybe you're passive town, but your playstyle seems opportunistic to me.

Also still want Ethos to explain why Fuz is "clearly town" from his POV.

third vote incl. Fishy; fishy off then back on; JV with the hammer. trajectory on Fuz up until this is kind of null/undecided but always kinda asking questions/concerned. This was a well setup vote if Uncrowned is scum.

[the worst]

Just checked Fuz ISO and I think I would have struggled if she hit f5; she didn't really engage with Uncr on any of the questions, her read on Eth0s could have come from s/s pretty easily; she never mentioned JV. Perfect partner equity with 3/3 slots.

A part of me wants to ask Uncrowned why he voted Fuz. His read trajectory checks out. Another part of me wants to ask JV why they voted Fuz. They explained it with the vote and (apparently?) accidentally hammered early. We probably could have let the phase run a little longer but I kinda agree with Fishy's take there; always hammer the "lol u can't prove I'm scum lol haha lol prove it" posts esp. when they haven't like really played in earnest

I'm actually getting slightly upset that Gyro was lynched d1 the more I reread d1 that was a lazy town ISO but it was town and often those players try to get spicy later in the game (see: me in large theme games) THANKS FOR LISTENING

[the worst]

Gyro Zeppeli - doesn't give a fuck how he's perceived which gives me a bit of pause. mentality is probably town tho. fwiw I've found his posts heavily relatable and think they probably come from a solving mindset who isn't super invested/doesn't feel the need to be townread, rather than a scum mindset who wants to force an agenda but post little enough that he's not mislynched. his takes haven't been popular. they've gone against the grain. but ngl they've aligned more with how I've been seeing things. looks like a dude who's been spending more time looking for scum than sitting on the thread tryna be townread; this is prolly town most of the time.

Actually rq either of you have any feelings about this? I'm being vain ik but I thought it was a p hot take and no one really reevaluated Gyro's alignment at all late d1


pedit: I'm aware your ISO already explains it. I just said your ISO explains it. :< I'm trying my best ok !!!! the scum in {you, jv} has played well and hasn't been put into a position where they've kinda been 'exposed' so I'm trying my best to work with what we got!

[the worst]

@JV, understand motivation is tough. Sorry for putting you through the ringer. I can tell from your posting today that you've settled on Uncr/Eth0s and there's actually really not much you're saying that doesn't 'make sense'; it's just that I want to cross my ts and dot my is.

if you're feeling burned out engaging with Uncrowned, if/when you have time, would you mind throwing down some thoughts on the gardenia/Eth0s slot? I'm kinda starting to form a pretty strong read on it via rereading in Uncrowned's ISO and I'd be interested to see where your head is.

[the worst]

just like did you see it / did it pique your interest / did you reevaluate Gyro towards the end of d1 much?

I know it was a compromise wagon and the l-1/lolhammer happened via two conftown but it's something to work on which isn't endlessly casing you/Uncrowned in circles.

[the worst]

Other than when you considered pushing Mari for a minute was there another point d1 where you considered voting another slot for pressure?

The standard applied between gard vs. Mari in your readlist is playing on my mind a bit. If you remember d1 well, were you happy to kinda just let Gard keep doing her thing? / were you satisfied with Mari's answers e.g. below?

^ I'm sorry but that rubbed me the wrong way. My vote was a random vote -

I don't want to be put into a wagon.

VOTE: Marionette because you're still the person

I want to talk to the most.

Bolded- why dont you wanna be on a wagon? How are you going to get a read off him without that pressure.

Italics- This is a tactic that new scum often uses because it makes it look like you are being active and are making a pressure push, but you are basically naked voting that slot and saying that you want them to post, which is why you voted them which defeats the purpose of the vote in the first place because now the guy knows why you are voitng him and how to change.

But until then your vote is being used, but in a way that is not likely to do any damage at all.

I agree here in regards to the wagon and vote usage, even if the pressure was being applied on me it's still beneficial to town as we're seeing how people react.

I think Mari is another one of those "easy votes" that I'm not willing to make just yet. That's the second time I've noticed Garden making one of these (the first was on Fish at the start of the game). Would like more of an explanation on that if you could, Garden.

Even though Mari's behaviour has been odd to me, it was only in a couple of posts. Not enough to go off of yet. I'd prefer our votes pressure someone who we know is around and will give their thoughts.

@Uncrowned; Explanation: But your vote is on Gyro? But seriously, I don't see things like that. For example, if you look at my FF vote, I voted him to try and be funny cause he swung at me like 3 times. For Mari, it was just me saying "hey, will you come back and maybe answer my question?" I don't think it makes sense to analyse my votes without looking at the context behind them.

@Datisi and everyone; gard/garden/whatever abbreviation of my name is fine! Or you can call me...GD

Okay, I can see that. I just found your votes on them to be interesting.

As for my vote on Gyro, I've stayed consistent with that. At first, it was RVS. I've kept it on him since then due to his lack of helping town from my point of view. Mari was next in line, but I'll wait for a replacement, and bug is at least formulating a defense and giving his viewpoints now. I don't like how much pressuring it took for him to reach that point, but that might just amount to being new.

I haven't finished deep diving the rest of your ISO (I laid down and now I can't get up being old is fun) but it feels like you kinda give her a free pass in this exchange. Just wondering if you could expand a bit on where your mind was at?

I also like how the worst speaks althought he could just be sucking on a nobs to make us happy while being a secretscumbag

I forgot how spectacular this post was

[the worst]

@JV take care of yourself. Catch ya tomorrow.
Also nobody's lolvoting here. I won't push this to 7 days but I definitely wanna make the scums squirm. Lylo is a lot but it is very fun imo, don't stress yourself out if you can avoid it.

[the worst]

Respect circumstance re 150, rn I'm largely curious how you found gard's slot later in d1 - you mostly talked about her shortly after your readlist.

sorry if it felt like I was asking you to repeat yourself again; I'm trying to focus more on how your reads evolved later in d1.

[the worst]

You know what? I think they were killed n1 to set up Fishy. They were kinda obvtown towards the end but that's not quite enough reason to kill 'em; I'm all in. I think the scumteam probably considered that Fishy would kill bugs.

I just can't think of anything else. Late bugs ISO mostly interacts w masons and they didn't make a tonne of noise about reads for the most part.

Legit think Fishy's sod2 intuition might have been right.

[the worst]

Re. You/gard interactions d1, Uncrowned, I'll need to think on it. Get some rest, have a good night.

[the worst]

Also, Fish is at L-2. Not a fan of that naked vote.

This could be scum shading Gyro (nakedvoter) and the post is defs made at the expense of engaging with Gyro on the vote
It could just be town voting a scumread who's pushing a townread.
not towny but not diabolical.
┐(´д｀)┌

You're chopping and changing a lot, I'm not sure what to make of you.

How so? I believe I've been dead set on TvS FF and SvS Gyro/FF for a while. Have I not made that clear enough?

The Fish vote, unvote, and then revote.

Saying Teacher could take FF"s role in the SvS teams you have listed, and then taking it back a few posts later.

Could just be mistakes or reevaluating, which is fine. I'm pointing it out because it's happened two times in quick succession.

Your TvS and SvS have been consistent, I wasn't referencing those.

These kinds of exchanges w JV are super interesting. I kinda think the 1v1 we've seen today has been brewing since d1; assuming Uncrowned is town for a moment he can see a kind of inconsistency in JV's posting which he's calling attention to but *still* not pushing over Gyro.

The conversation is kinda riddled with misunderstanding tho. There's a conclusion to be reached, this hasn't been a conversation about alignments, just clarifying what each other is saying.

I don't get these two parts. Gyro has been one of the least active players in the game and has provided no insight and made only naked votes. Fish, even if you don't agree with his playstyle, has pressured other players into giving explanations and has made some connections that seem feasible. I think at best Gyro can only be put into the null category due to lack of useful activity. I'm still susp of him though.

Also, where am I on this list?

This kinda think is interesting. I don't think it's like a scum perspective slip necessarily but it is a continuation of a pattern which in a broader context lead to Gyro's ML.

The sentiment here is "you shouldn't townread gyro but you could nullread him but I'm not considering that alignment indicative from you, and will continue to vote Gyro because I suspect him"

Ultimately this increases gyro's lynchability but is still not a conversation about trying to check the Gyro read. something like "oh what scumhunting are you seeing from gyro?" tells you more abt both bugs + Gyro in this situation

Quizzing where he's at on the readlist ~might~ point to a mindset which is pretty aware of how it's being perceived and is anxious to gauge perceptions; I think critiquing a read then asking how his slot is being perceived could be coming from a place of trying to look good while not diving deeper into their read discrepancy on Gyro could be indicative of trying to cruise through to the mislynch.

again not towny but not diabolical; kinda wish this conversation went deeper but I can see some scum equity here.

[the worst]

I don't think Gyro has helped town much, I liked when he asked for Datisi's explanation of why he thought Bug was scum, since that was encouraging discussion and progressing the game, but that's about it.

There's a fair bit I could talk about wrt this post but it just ends conveniently on voting Gyro for reasons which are kinda policyish; they're fine but it doesn't reevaluate other slots (or even Gyro really) - the "I liked x but he could still be scum" kinda rings a similar bell to "I think y is scum, but I could be wrong...." which might be tmi but it's not heavily tmi, kinda same with:

He's not clear scum to me by any means, but I've got more suspicion to him than I do to others.

I'm still just finding it a bit jarring that out of the other slots he's got issues with (JV odd voting pattern, Fuz doing like nothing) that he just left his vote on Gyro for the entire phase. It's fine and maybe not totally scum indicative but it is kinda underwhelming; shifting votes around for pressure and keeping your reads a little intangible can do so much for gamestate at the expense of being townread/slipping under the radar.

On the flipside having stable reads and finding reasons to keep pushing the same slots which are consensus (whether you started the wagon or not) is a great way to slip under the radar

I think uncrowned has admitted his approach has been kinda under the radar so I suppose I'm just qualifying that for myself


Shifting into d2 I believe:

Sadly hunting for mislynches / town by gamestate isolation ("they have no allies itt therefore they're likely town") doesn't really work after that tell has been discussed in a game. Gyro was that townie this game. We're gonna need to get more creative.

I kinda follow you, but I still think it could be a factor? There's something about the pressure on FF that I'm not liking, especially from Fuz, since it's the first time she's coming out to say anything with substance against another player. Prior to this, she's only:

-Said you seem reliable.
-Voted on Gyro (second to last vote)

To me that seems like a reaction based playstyle that's giving me opportunistic vibes, since she only seems to jump in when something has already become somewhat of a consensus among the group (your slot receiving lots of towncred, Gyro picking up votes, and now the pressure on FF).

The issue with the pressure on FF might be tmi/scum motivated; I didn't personally feel like the gamestate made FF feel like scum (that being said, I was championing that so idk) - he starts off the Fuz shading but there's a lack of accompanying vote or like a hard push. Just a statement of why she could be scum.

[the worst]

The reason I didn't bring up JV in 719 is because he's held the same stance on FF for a while now, it's more consistent than Fuz who seems happy to join in on things once other people have brought them up. That's how I'm seeing things atm.

Given Uncrowned is concerned about the sod2 pressure on FF meaning FF might be a mislynch I'm kinda concerned he is giving JV a free pass here - this comes after his and their interaction d1 with the vote pivot where uncrowned was like "hey!!--oh ok" - I think I'll have a better sense of their interactions when I've done JV as well.

problem w this is JV is being completely earnest and that still doesn't tell me anything further abt his alignment

I think JV is being honest, but I also think he's wrong. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and just say it's an incorrect read.

I'm interested in Fuz's response to what I said about her, and also want to see what Eth0s has to say about the game. That slot has also been pretty passive iirc.

This could also p easily be s/s is all - the eth0s call-out is pretty casual and isn't really accompanied by any pressure or call to action; very much a "hey eth0s you should do something". Kinda comes from town trying to get a nullslot or scum coaching scum equally often. It is a bit interesting he's shading Fuz and letting eth0s slide but still hasn't thrown down a vote. Fuz ignored questions directed right @ her and didn't really play the game but eth0s was a firm lurkslot. This isn't totally a doublestandard and makes sense with Uncrowned's read trajectory so could be coincidental but worth noting he's pushing another nullslot over eth0s.

[the worst]

Need more eth0s in my life. Pausing on uncrowned for now. I kinda hate coming out of an ISO so inconclusively but like if Uncrowned is scum he's played it well for a first game and I'm not really sure who his partner would be - he could just as easily be town :/

I think it's one of those situations where reading JV's ISO and commenting thru it with stuff I find AI will probably help with context. Fmpov there's 1-2 scum in JV/Uncr. I'm not seeing obvious scum aorn. So weighing up their respective towntells/scumtells is probably more likely to produce results than assigning an asinine alignment to Uncrowned's ISO and calling it a day.

I think I *could* scumread Uncrowned but..... only kinda

[the worst]

and I don't want to tbh :{

[the worst]

can scum surrender so we can all just be friends thx

[the worst]

I'm p interested to talk about jv/uncr as well tbh

[the worst]

It's gonna work better as a two pronged attack - reread JV's ISO for a baseline then work thru your combined late d2 & d3 interactions. If I can 100% satisfy myself you're not s/s then I can PoE eth0s as scum. Obviously I'll also be looking to work out which one of you is a more likely partner.

I'll get as much done in this phase as possible. We have a bit of time:

The deadline for Day 3 is in 5 days, 6 hours, 33 minutes.

Fishy also hasn't checked into the solving yet and I'm kinda at a point where I'd be comfortable with a jv/uncrowned crossvote but I'm not gonna powerplay this phase solo when we have a confirmed town still alive. I want a second pair of eyes on this.

[the worst]

Could I ask for your reads atm? Fmpov if I can rule out a jv/uncrowned scumteam this game becomes a tonne easier but you have a fairly unenviable position of working out whether I'm a scumbag as well as sorting those 3.

[the worst]

Alright.

[the worst]

Congratulations JV. <3


I'm a tiny bit stuck at the moment as well. Need to get my place clean for family arriving on the weekend, busy one of tomorrow or Saturday night, and will probably start limited access for around 2 wks come Sunday.

If anyone wants to throw me opinions on JV/Uncr s/s that'd help a tonne but like I'd only really value opinions from Fishy and Eth0s and Eth0s is busy and Fishy is waiting on Eth0s and >:c general rawr.

[the worst]

I'm not in any real hurry Eth0s but p keen to pick your brain

[the worst]

I'm totally fine with you and Uncrowned crossvoting.
Good luck with the formal

[the worst]

*glows, radiating towniness*
hope your formal went well, JV.

I need my favourite fish here rn. just posting for posterity/hammertesting mostly.

[the worst]

What did you think of eth0s/jv last page in particular fishy?

[the worst]

It's OK :{
I'll be busy tonight/tomorrow

Given he'd already dived jv's ISO apparently? and come to a net scumlean I found his rxn to being voted by JV kinda disingenuous, the entitlement to be unvoted didn't really feel like it came from a mindset of someone who's earnestly leaning scum on JV and it took like.. ages for him to unvote

given he worked backwards to me and came out at "JV scum, Uncr nullscum, tw obvtown" is kinda like, convenient, but not necessarily scum indicative. in fairness I can relate to being uncertain on Uncrowned, I think he's a tough read

I kinda think he's approached this as scum
don't really think JV/uncr or jv/eth0s read as s/s this phase
the like audacity and confidence in JV's responses don't feel fake and dont feel like they're aligned; JV feels unapologetic for all of their play and like it fully entitles them to be townread

I'm coming out at JV > Uncr > Eth0s again
kinda wanted jv/uncr crossvotr rather than jv/eth0s
JV doing the crossvote which makes them look townier/unaligned while talking about that itt takes unreal confidence as scum, esp. when the more core town are holding their cards close

I don't feel bad about this read at all. I'm kinda annoyed nobody has tried to push me this phase. I have a sneaking suspicion there's probably some lingering paranoia in your mind about me, post-teacher flip.

The main thing I want a check on is if you think JV has a scumbuddy in this phase. They and I are reading roughly the same conclusions and they feel alienated by uncr/eth0s who haven't felt as earnest this phase.

Sorry to handball back to you - you have one more slot to sort than the rest of us - kinda just need to know where you're at and if there's some way we can smooth our brains together here. (without me diving and eating you obviously)

[the worst]

JV/Uncr kinda identitied each other mutually in different ways early but it hasn't really emerged til now - if they're s/s it was very well played esp. for comparative forum mafia newbies who missed a mason crumb - I would like a reality check on this if you have the time (higher priorities) but don't really think it's super urgent compared to just sorting folks

As for the {uncreth0s, jackseth0s} scumteams v much today - yday teacher tinfoiled a worstsonvirgo scumteam and like jv/uncr still had each other null/south but also had each other as Fuz partners. :#

[the worst]

I'm voting eth0s tonight if there's no changes. Less than 12 hours from now. only ~50 hours left in the phase

[the worst]

i'm not sold on the {uncr,JV} situation yet just think there's most likely 1 scum in there and that eth0s is scum
i'll accept "bad play", if you insist. :/ I've been getting ready for family to stay with me.


Uncr I need your take on eth0s, please. in as much detail as possible.

[the worst]

VOTE: Eth0s

Ducky what does why me equal?

defs depends but given the last few pages I don't think it's coming from town; feels lollcatty

[the worst]

Think there's a world where I lynch Uncr today then reevaluate tomorrow but I also think eth0s is probably just more likely to be scum and I'm not totally sure I get him right in 3p if I'm wrong about him here

[the worst]

Mafia gods please deliver us a scumflip

[the worst]

I did no more legwork overnight as I was lowkey paranoid I'd just die.
Uncr ISO incoming.
I'm fine if you guys are interested in crossvoting.
Explaining why you're playing a town wincon is currently more valuable to me than you casing each other. It's hard to believe; one of you is a townie with a guilty and the other is scum who knows who they need to push.

[the worst]

Tentatively: @Uncr, I don't think Eth0s pushed JV in good faith f3 and I think their reaction to this was very honest. Could you talk to me about what you're seeing there?

[the worst]

I haven't been that active, mainly because I had a lot of stuff happening the past day. But here are my current reads. If I missed anyone, they're null.
---- Town ----
Teacher
JV

---- Null ----
Datis
Uncrowned

---- Scum ----
FormerFish
Marionette

Flipped scum missing from this readlist

Because I totally didn't forget their names

This wrt stated nullread on Uncr/Dat but other nulls by default
kinda interesting JV didn't move their vote until after this given they had scummier slots at the time; I believe the reasoning was that they didn't want to risk hammers happening

Before I start, there is absolutely no order in this list outside of the sections (scum, town, null).

My reads as of right now.
Teacher and FormerFish are a TvS

bugspray | Chibiie

Chibiie seemed to answer questions with actual effort making me lean to town.

Gardenia

- They seemed to be reluctant to vote at all at first, which doesn't inherently mean anything but then teacher stated that they wrote that out as scum.

FormerFish

- wanted a lynch wagon on Teacher early on. Then claimed chibiie was scum whether as a joke or otherwise. They're currently a scumlean for me.

Gyro

- Seemed to be lurking could be an SvS with FF.

Datisi | Saladman27

- Salad seemed townie and Datisi seems somewhat null currently so I am townleaning that

Marionette

- Voted without a reason, scumlean

Uncrowned

- This one is null to me.

If I missed anyone, let me know.

TLDR;

TOWNLEAN

• bugspray
  
• Gardenia
  
• Datisi

NULL

• Uncrowned

SCUMLEAN

• FF
  
• Gyro
  
• Mari

This is where they change their vote to Mr Fishy; bases on flips aorn we know that all of their scumreads have been town and their townreads have been scum but that's kind of a common theme on d1 given Gard was quite audacious for newscum

Bugs read is a little surface. Agree w fishy read in context (also didn't realise this was a mason at the time). Other scumreads at this juncture are kinda policy (Gyro lurking, Mari not explaining their vote).

Read on Gardenia is kinda "this should be null but teacher said it isn't so I'm not nullreading it" which is an interesting standard vs. the rest of the reads in the list; JV largely makes an effort to form their own reads otherwise

Oh right, Teacher. I town read them. A TvS with you in fact as I stated.

I relate to this read but just reaffirming for myself that none of the three of us caught the mason breadloafing d1

To put it simply, I voted because I feel they are a TvS with Teacher. The fact Gyro jumped onto that with a naked vote makes me want to get off that shiz as fast as I can.

I don't remember writing that anywhere but yes I feel Gyro/Fish are a SvS and this might be a way of Gyro getting towncred but I also think Teacher/Fish is a TvS.

So currently my reads are FF and Gyro being scum. I left that wagon because I don't want it to be lynched yet.

Gyro/Fishy is kind of an interesting take and I need to check how this developed given they've flipped t/t

gonna hit SUBMIT a bit more in general because my phone battery is v low

[the worst]

Ah yes, I think I missed you asking this. What I wrote about Teacher made me think FF/Teach was a TvS and did not change my read on Gard at all, I wrote that in the wrong spot. However, I TL them because they really haven't given me a reason not too. Probably not the greatest reason but yep.

this feels interesting vs. e.g. reads on Gyro, Mari; latter have been largely scumread for underexplaining/lurking but gard feels as though she's getting a full on free pass into the townlist. yet I don't feel like she had been elaborately explaining at this point either.

Discussion you had with Bugs a bit earlier about "you trying to buddy them" or whatever, you make anything out of that?

Honestly, I've got two total outcomes in my head (probably not the write wording)

Since I am set on TvS {Teacher, FF}. It's either SvS {FF, Gyro} (meaning it could be Gyro/Teacher) or SvS {FF, bug}

I feel bad for being discredity particularly in a newbie game but on reread I'm not sure these are real thoughts - imo bugs was p towny even disregarding FF's ~fancy play~ on day one; I'm not sure substituting {FF,teacher} for each other to create a scumteam with Gyro is actually a particularly earnest solve given Gyro is just scum for lurking and not explaining his vote..

[the worst]

Sorry. Need to work. I'm less sure doing this read through.

[the worst]

Not hammering hi

[the worst]

But what it I secretly AM scum... hhhmmmm...

[the worst]

no.... I just remembered I'm not.... ok, not hammering.

[the worst]

Why unvote there?

[the worst]

How do you feel about fishy dying?

[the worst]

Do you think scum!Uncrowned considers shooting me instead?

I do have a brain but it's roughly the size of an apricot so we'll see what happens

[the worst]

Sure, I respect that play a lot - that lends into a higher level of manipulation skill as scum tho. it's pretty well established whichever of you is teh scum has set this up well. so I'm inclined to be more careful with your style.

Who can convince me that they're town? Just like a clean simple case on "x doesn't come from me as scum here" helps - I'm not taking this at face value obviously but it helps. Think of this like rqs, but like Very Important And Pointed Question Stage. VIAPQS!!!

Loving the 3x Aus lylo btw this is exciting.

[the worst]

JV: what was your moment last night which made you realise I was 100% town?

[the worst]

Sure but when did you decide you were comfortable enough to YOLO hammertest?

[the worst]

everyone.
except us, and uncrowned.

what have you done

[the worst]

i have some stuff i want to do before i make a decision.

this kind of position in lylo is kinda stressful and i want to do more than my usual on-brand lazy decision so i can pretend to be a good influence while welcoming you guys to the site~~!
so sorry if i take a bit of time. i won't lurk this out and won't make the call lightly.

how was your day btw, weather improving over there?

[the worst]

Blegh can relate - we've seen a bit of fire here (thankfully very far north of me), fingers crossed it doesn't get worse. And hopefully the worst is passed for you too.

@Uncrowned needless to say, ditto to you - you're just not in the thread right now.

[the worst]

What game are you guys referencing, just so I can view this stuff for myself?

Uncr, if you remember: what inspired you to ask this/what was your takeaway from the old game?

[the worst]

JACKSON VIRGO WHAT IS YOUR FAVOURITE COLOUR.

i'm working thru this i'm sorry; i think i'm voting uncrowned ultimately aorn but i'm not quite there yet

[the worst]

My reads thus far

Town Leans

Datisi

- Liked his slot when Salad was playing it. Unvoted me when fast wagon occured, seemed like a town play. Questions and digs for info in his posts.

FormerFish

- Aggressive townplay imo, made a good connection in post 118 between bugspray's former slot (Chib) and a past game they had played.

Teacher

- I like the logic behind post 102 with the whole idea of "how does this benefit town?". I'm leaning toward Teacher/Fish being a TvT situation.

Gardenia

- After reading back, I like post 150 - except for including Fish in the trio, since he voted Teacher way before back on Page 1. I believe the vote on me was when we started "redoing" the RVS.

i'd like to crack your brain open on this one
your reads were overexplainy (which i understand is part of your playstyle; that's fine)

the way you've overexplained the datisi/fishy reads is by kind of overqualifying things which aren't really town indicative. e.g. datisi unvoting you isn't towny; i don't really think the connection you mentioned by fishy was all that pro-solvey, just kinda... a thing he said; teacher's "how does this benefit town?" thing is basically a policy stance and doesn't like, show him trying to parse people's alignments, just assists the game into advancing into more interesting states

your read on gard is more in the style of "i like xyz about post 150, but not z" and you've kinda...found an excuse for her dodgy vote (also a sidenote that she listed 3 now-flipped townies as scumreads, but elected to vote you who was not one of her scumreads)

sorry if this is waffly, tryna post fast, BUT:
the read you've described on gardenia is more consistent with the style of your nullreads in this readlist imo. i'm just kinda wondering what inspired you to lift gardenia into your town tier given it sounds like you still had concerns about her play? do you make much of her voting you at the expense of pushing one of her 3 scumreads?

also given fish was like regularly insisting people voted teacher it wasn't surprising to me at all that she included him in the trio

if you could try and lean back into where your mind was at for this i'd appreciate it.



btw: in LyLo it's pretty rare i lean into AtE, generally only if i'm super bored of the game. and i'm feeling spicy here. don't worry about me giving into AtE; i'll be assessing your play this game and making the call from that

[the worst]

Not Voting hasn't been hammered yet, pretty sure they're confscum

[the worst]

@Uncrowned, votes are pretty important. when push comes to shove dayplay orientates around voting..if you aren't using your vote for something, your dayplay is automatically more superficial than someone who is endorsing/pushing wagons. same goes for both alignments.
gardenia chose to vote you while pretending to scumread three town-aligned players, and it's currently my job to make an educated guess at why she did that. it's either because you're town and she thought she could get you lynched/look towny off voting you. or it's because you're aligned with her and she wanted to seem unaligned. it's probably the most substantial part of gardenia's iso.

responses are duly noted - i'm getting a general feeling from you as though you think i'm scumreading you for largely unfair reasons (disregarding the fact that you know your own alignment, and whether i'm correct or not is sadly a postgame discussion only)...do you think that's fair? do you feel as though i'm pushing back on you for silly things?

[the worst]

Gardenia - They seemed to be reluctant to vote at all at first, which doesn't inherently mean anything but then teacher stated that they wrote that out as scum.

and now your turn for torture fire questions via duck, JV:

can you revisit Gard's ISO up to here and talk me through why she was one of your strongest townreads? she joined teacher and my slot in a tier and i'm not sure teacher's alignment when making a policy-related post in another game really fills me with a lot of confidence.

i don't want you to stretch your brain until it hurts but i'd like you to revisit where your mind was at in as much detail as possible, please.

[the worst]

no pressure my new friend. we got time. i'mma keep doin my thing.

[the worst]

good people, moderators and spectators of newbie 1963 (if they exist): i have made my decision.

i'll be hammering in a couple of days max. if you have anything you'd like to say before i lay down the hammer, please say it soon.

[the worst]

i think i've done enough legwork and pondered enough

[the worst]

goin for a pagetop for draaaaamaa

[the worst]

so you're both super dangerous. clearly you both have enough experience to set up a 3p like this but i've seen both associative and agenda tells from one slot which i *think* outweigh those i've seen from the other.

i've documented a final exhaustive reread in a PT which i'll release postgame

[the worst]

just one final prayer for guidance to some awesome scummers

skitter30... may your lylo towning brilliance guide my reread [maybe i should have said this before i started? ah well]
radiantcowbells... may your suggestion to hammer your townread in f3 come in handy
to gyro, bugs, and all the dead of Newbie 1963... i hope that this avenges you all

here goes.........

[the worst]

quack

[the worst]

quack

[the worst]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

[the worst]

*covers face* plsplsplspls

[the worst]

please release me from my suffering

[the worst]

did i lose or

[the worst]

pleaseeee uncrowned the not knowing is a nightmare
i can't take this tortureee

[the worst]

UNCROWNED YOU ARE CANCELLED.

[the worst]

duck's ranting at himself into incorrect confbias thread

[the worst]

am i ok to release that micc?

thanks so much for the late evening endgame micc, great modding.
gg everyone. sorry townies. and well played mafia, particularly uncrowned!

[the worst]

this was a particularly difficult f3, i think. my brain hasn't bent this far in a long time.

[the worst]

don't worry several people did it across the course of the game

[the worst]

uncrowned, you carried yourself *very* well under pressure - endgame narative was pretty silky, too. my townread went like jv jv jv jv jv aaaaa maybe uncr....no jv jv jv but what if it's...hmmm uncr!!!, like, the more i read the more i townread you.

[the worst]

my pt probably gives a lot more on why i ended up making the wrong call but i don't think it was like, a toneread, necessarily. via tone i think i would've got it right. :@

[the worst]

I was following the game for a while, and I think the reason gardenia hid so well for so long, I think, is that they were genuinely interested in playing the game as a social deduction game with people, even when it was all going to crap, and their rep-out was genuinely-townie-feeling because it was actually genuine.

yeah.

i spoke about this a bit in my thread. interestingly the two times they felt really sincere this game was that rep-out post, and when they were pointing out issues with an uncrowned post
arrrgggghhhhh

[the worst]

teacher then eth0s but i kinda immediately knew as soon as i saw it that it came from a newbie scumteam

[the worst]

yeahhh ok fine true :p
i thought it for other reasons tho ok !!

[the worst]

worst man reading through your PT has me feeling anxiety for you even though I know how it ends LOL goddamn this game is stressful

thank you, I'll be here mourning all week, accepting sympathy and pieces of bread

we should hold a funeral for Gyro btw he deserved better

[the worst]

I love Fishy. I have some issues with the masonplay this game (in summary: echo Micc's mod pt comments). But Mr. Fishy is a superstar.

[the worst]

That dead thread was a wild ride!!

[the worst]

Ducky, it was definitely a rough lylo to be stuck in in your position. I'm wondering if you had a main underlying reason for your vote? Like what would you consider the tipping point or best piece of evidence to lynch JV? In retrospect can you unbiasedly give the same reason to choose uncrowned instead?

I'm only asking because I hate being in the position you were in and your thought process is usually quite clear and I want pointers lol

I'd suggest have a squizzy at my pt - I made some "the decision I am making is ___ and I am voting this way because -----".

The crux of it is probably that I was comparing a player who had a lower impact playstyle but clear trajectory, which has a ~tendency~ to come from newbtown. not 100% reliable but without meta to assist in forming like, a personality/mindset baseline, I'm comfortable that it's *usually* a reliable tell.

JV felt like, the opposite, they'd had a lot of stances and done a lot of things but their trajectory was less clear and when they were put under pressure they didn't give the impression they were as confident in their reads; this isn't outright scum indicative but vs. the optimal newbtown profile from uncrowned I was more hopeful it'd flip scum.

Basically the narrative uncrowned laid down at the end seemed like it made a lot of sense. I still maintain it did. He played a really good scumgame.

Probably if I'd made a call earlier (when JV and I were on the same page in real time) I might have hammered Uncrowned but.. yeah my pt will be a bit of a rant but it explains a lot of how I approached sorting them pre lylo which is generally where you catch alignment indicative stuff. Lylo tends to be clashing agendas regardless of alignment. zzz

[the worst]

Wow okay, ducky why?!

I'm sorryyyy I still love you! My pt explains everything :<

[the worst]

You weren't bad either, please don't beat yourself up.<3

Mafia is hard.
There's a LOT to learn and many ways to improve.

[the worst]

Man ducky, I misread you again. I'll try to force myself to stop paranoia'ing you...

Just remember
I have a brain the size of an apricot

Every time you think I'm scum pulling off a master plan look at the duckling and ask yourself, "could that yellow fuzzy dude pull this off?"

If the answer is no then I'm totally town.

[the worst]

I'm probably gonna continue my break from Mafia for a bit but I'll come back one day and I hope we can all play together!

gardenia I think you might be one of the friendliest people I've ever encountered. Some of your plays d1 were seriously cunning as well. I hope we cross paths again, I get really good vibes from you.

[the worst]

Such a precarious balancing act. Trying to gauge how people will go about reading you is also very tough.

I'll take the l here, you both played really well. The error was mine for giving too much credit to certain tells. I have no regrets but I'll learn. <3 I hope everyone learned a bit from this one. Was a very fun game.