The Root of Toxicity in Mafia Games

[OkaPoka]

just say i smell nice and you will be reformed

[OkaPoka]

See
League is better than Mafia in that
if someone is literally running it down mid in League, they can get banned.
If you rand scum with someone and their first post is:
"I am a town roleblocker that is also a modified paranoid gun owner (I can only kill one visitor per night)."
And then that person proceeds to deathtunnel 1 person while refusing to work with your team and also not even trying to hide that he's scum.

You can't get that person banned. He's trying lmfao.

this sounds very specific i want to read

[OkaPoka]

i think calling yourself obvtown is pretty toxic lets ban that too no kap

[OkaPoka]

I don't understand why people call themselves obvtown

I would be down to policy lynch everyone who calls themselves obvtown

If you are truly obvtown

Why would you need to comment upon that, it should be unnecessary

Like those radio ads where they are selling something and they say they are absolutely certain they do not have enough inventory for all the people who will call to order the product

like in all seriousness yes

seeing someone else say "im obvtown" is the most frustrating thing to see

[OkaPoka]

disagree

the toxicity in league comes from immaturity certainly given that toxicity actively hinders your ability to win games

the toxicity in mafia is a result of a game where there are advantages to being toxic.

Toxic play in mafia gets reinforced with townreads, sheeping, and removed pressure and that makes the behavior more likely to recur

Toxic play in league is only reinforced internally rather than externally

I have no idea about league but I agree with RC here but with an addendum that I think most toxic play of this sort comes as a result of AtE being a major part of the current meta and that that should be phased out as much as possible if you want toxicity in games to reduce

Yeah I agree with this

And I think a huge part of AtE becoming standard town play is the shift from what the role of a townie should be.

I'm young one on this site, but when I first started, the standard for town was basically don't give a fuck about how scummy you are, your job is to scumhunt not look town. Whether you think thats optimal isn't the point of this post. But like, people who townhunted -> PoE was less than people who had a FoS pool to lynch with. And if you did get lynched, it was never your fault for being mislynched, its that the rest of town was bad, except in rare cases where someone is actively trolling.

But now I feel like a huge part of townplay is actually looking townie, like if you get mislynched you share that burden of responsibility. Along w the strat of townhunting/townbloccing ascending in popularity makes its kinda clear to me why AtE is prevalent, since its an easy way to get townread.

[OkaPoka]

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=59578

heres a thread that i think would have very different opinions if posted today

[OkaPoka]

No, you don't know.

But if your EV of hunting scum is average (1/3 in mini) and someone elses is 2/3 outside of the way your own personal feelings about ~your reads~ get in the way why would you go with 1/3 over 2/3

what if your reads are already "weighted" with other people's reads?

like say 2 people with n>2/3 reads rate have x as scum

but 1 person with >n reads rate with y as scum

[OkaPoka]

i think what they mean is that being right on read 1 vs read 2 are independent?

[OkaPoka]

But like in that case maybe if Barry bonds strikes two outs to start he’s having a bad day and should be subbed out?

This also seems like one of those things where playing to probability is arguably against win con vs playing for future wincon

Say someone has an 80% read rate. If you sheep them every game, you should win most games. But if there are outlier games where their reads are really bad too, then in that particular game you wouldn’t be playing to win con by wheeling them, you’d be playing to up your average wins.

Does this make sense? I may be missing something/probably am

they are saying that bad days arent really a thing

its just a string of mistakes is likely to happen eventually based on odds but they isn't a secret bad day modifier that affects read rate %

i think?

[OkaPoka]

This is a huge derail lets talk about literally anything else.

do you think townies should look town

[OkaPoka]

if i get mislynched in a game and we lose

can i blame everyone else for being a shitter who cant read me

or is it my fault for not doing enough to prevent my death

[OkaPoka]

UR MOTHER WAS A MURLOC

[OkaPoka]

OkaPoka smells like a Leper Gnome

root of toxicity /thread

[OkaPoka]

dude i have this really cool strat that will give me a 75% read accuracy rate

[OkaPoka]

because more townies than scum

[OkaPoka]

No. My townread accuracy rate is actually pretty high - higher than average in fact. That’s why I tend to prefer townblocking to scumhunting early game.

an orphan dies every time someone uses this fallacy

What “fallacy”?

You think townblocking can’t be a valuable tool? Why not? I’m far better at correctly identifying town than scum, especially in early game.

So is a random number generator.

random number generator is kinda bad no

better just to mark the entire plist as town

[OkaPoka]

No. My townread accuracy rate is actually pretty high - higher than average in fact. That’s why I tend to prefer townblocking to scumhunting early game.

an orphan dies every time someone uses this fallacy

What “fallacy”?

You think townblocking can’t be a valuable tool? Why not? I’m far better at correctly identifying town than scum, especially in early game.

I think the fallacy is that you know you identify town correctly more often than scum, and you suppose that means your town reads rate is better than your scum reads rate. The error is that there are more town than scum in a game, so your higher correct town reads rate is not statistically significant.

yeah maybe that thinking is a little off but there are certain types of reads that are better y'know. Like I have really weak reads day 1 but I am a lategame carry, in LyLo my reads are 50% accurate even though scum are only about 22% of the playerlist!

the famous "im better lategame"

[OkaPoka]

townread meta is toxic

[OkaPoka]

But scumreading pisses off people, so that's toxic too

maybe just me but i dont mind getting scumread

i get frustrated if you decide that you want to lock the entire playerlist as town and decide ok i guess this person is the least locked town

then i have no tears left to cry

[OkaPoka]

getting scumread by town as town is why mafia is kinda fun

[OkaPoka]

If there was ranked mafia this game would be very toxic too

[OkaPoka]

Generation gap. Average user is different now, much more prone to hurt butts.

Ok boomer