night 3+ doctor is only able to impact the game considerably in the event it is able to get a save on both night 3 and night 4 (or maybe, like, if mafia try to holster one night and use both rolecops to try to get credit for saving someone, or something) which is particularly difficult to do since they have to survive all the way to that point (very difficult - 2 kills and 0-2 rolecop checks are happening by n3. also towns on this site lately have been like "i have to try my hardest to mislynch this mason or else i will die in real life") and then get both of the saves right. oh right there is a backup doctor oops. still kind of hard for both of them to be alive, but if the backup doctor is somehow unclaimed at n3/4 then it's hard for the mafia to play around it
if they only get one save, that doesn't earn town any mislynches - maybe it just lets somebody survive and talk about the game for an extra day which isn't huge
outside of the doctor i'd say the setup is kind of scumsided and i don't think the doctor quite makes up for it. i would say it's probably closer to even if the mason doctor is just ungated - tough call though. if you really like the setup as it is i think it's passable
Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:00 am
by RadiantCowbells
Yeah I think this is pretty scumsided in practice given that I'm not sure anyone believes the backup doctor claim.
Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:25 am
by Plum
Whoa, and here I was thinking this was Townsided. In an earlier iteration I had N3+ Mason Jailkeeper and Backup Jailkeeper instead of the Doctors. How does the setup look that way?
Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:25 am
by RadiantCowbells
It's
Functionally 2 masons 5 vt 2 goons which is slightly scumsided but scum have role cops
Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:28 am
by Plum
I mean I could tone down the Rolecops. I legit thought this was Townsided that's part of why they're there. But let me think a bit.
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:49 am
by Plum
Lol I have an older version in my notes which is
Macho Mason
Mason Night 3+ Jailkeeper
Backup Jailkeeper
VT*4
Mafia Encryptor
Mafia Neapolitan
The idea was same as above, have two Masons, one with a power they can't use until late game, but if you lose that mason, you get an ungated version of the power, and in this case it's Jailkeeper which is quite powerful, especially in late game scenarios. How does this look to you?
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:22 am
by RadiantCowbells
Late game jailkeeper is actually kinda strong unlike doctor :v
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:27 am
by Plum
Yeah. I guess I was worried it was too powerful and retreated into the version I posted first with the Doctors. But are you saying it's too strong, or strong enough to work for balance depending on exactly what scum are given, power-wise?
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:54 am
by RadiantCowbells
I'm just gonna pass the original
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:51 am
by Plum
The version with the Doctors?
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:46 am
by RadiantCowbells
Ya
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:41 am
by RadiantCowbells
It's within standard balance range and if town clears the other doc it becomes townsidedish but within standard balance range in that direction
So overall seems pretty okay
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:06 am
by Plum
Okay, just the first response was that it was pretty scumsided? And if it hinges on "do the Town believe a backup claim" I don't really want that to be the interesting thing about the setup per se, makes me feel like my setups trend really gimmicky. Idk now I'm thinking this setup idea would be better as a Mini with Jailkeepers or something?
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:30 am
by RadiantCowbells
I agree that this is a kind of bad setup and I would prefer an entirely different direction
But I think the doc version is passable
Up to you where we go from here
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:31 am
by Plum
Yeah, based on that I want to go in a different direction or scrap.
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:35 am
by RadiantCowbells
How about
Mason
Mason 2-shot doctor
1-shot neighbourizer
Vt*4
Goon
Goon
Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 2:51 pm
by Plum
Hi, I'm really sorry I haven't been here, I've been overwhelmed IRL. I may ask Micc to put me on hold in the Micro Queue.
Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:46 pm
by RadiantCowbells
Merry Christmas if that's why you're busy
Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 4:00 pm
by Plum
Lol Merry Christmas to you if you celebrate it but I'm observing Chanukah actually