Large Normal 228: Bananas - Game Over

[NorwegianboyEE]

You can keep up this circus. I’m taking a break.
A50, if you got any questions then just ask me. Otherwise i’m ready for you to hammer now.

[LuckyLuciano]

I revisited the wagons overnight and it makes sense for Drew to be double bussed given that Norwegian was on early and Nahdia made the mistake of lingering around so she was forced into hammering or looking scummy AF for refusing to.

That part in particular threw me off. I didn't understand why Nahdia needed to be online at this precise time. It may have had to do with that other game I linked, maybe.. but I still think she could have avoided this thread, and especially so if he partner was already on the wagon (thus lynching off the wagon was fine still).

The interesting part is that your slot didn't join that wagon, and -even more interesting- both NKs were on the wagon.

The next night Umlaut (also on the wagon) was shot. Someone was hunting for the SK. If Nahdia had jumped on the wagon knowing her p was also on then it must have been to limit the pool for them to hunt for the SK, but that is certainly not a good reason to hammer your p with as little time left of the day.

Was my slot online during EoD? Also I think Nahdia said she'd be around for EoD, I'd have to check. Either way she did hammer, and the context of EoD iirc was that she was expected to. I don't think having a partner on the wagon changes the fact that she had to hammer.

[LuckyLuciano]

You can keep up this circus. I’m taking a break.
A50, if you got any questions then just ask me. Otherwise i’m ready for you to hammer now.

You weren't ready for him to hammer earlier? Interesting.

[LuckyLuciano]

Hey A50, remember that analysis you thought I was too new to make? That based on wagon dynamics one of Cakez / Nahdia had to be scum? Now that you know that I'm not too new to mafia to be able to make that sort of claim, do you really think I set up that analysis and continually asked people for their opinions on it if Nahdia was my last partner?

[Almost50]

Norwegian is being careful not to upset either of us while also trying to direct both of us towards each other with his questions.

I don't think he was trying not to upset you with those:

Umlaut: how pure is this wagon?

ManateeDude (6) -

bob3141

, Umlaut,

Titus

, Nahdia, SirCakez,

osuka

[L-2]

Personally I'd go for all-town (or -at leat- Mafia-free)

Oh shit.

Well other than THAT, i think A50's ISO is relatively townie and i stand by what i've said regarding him earlier.

And THAT is one reason why I prefer Nor to win if he is not Town. He's playing the correct way (from my own PoV). JV/LL coming at me is really bad play. They should have -at least- considered each other, which they didn't. (JV for no real reason, and LL because he's trying to twist everything into a narrative that fits his agenda and is often retracting when it's made obvious he is going astray)

Yeah this points to scum!LL though.

Are you still standing by your LL scumread?

Then the next thing I see was you voting him.

[LuckyLuciano]

Like, this should be obvious as fuck. We may not have gotten along throughout the game, but at least I've been open with my thought process throughout the entire game. Before everyone decided that despite my constant prodding they just weren't going to do fuck all day 2 I was pretty fucking motivated to get the game back up and running. My play D2 makes no sense for promoting a winning gamestate as mafia. Letting a demotivated town fuck-it eliminate the player I read as doc and then become even more demoralized because they are doing fuck all and getting punished for it is best case scenario if I'm scum. Taking the spotlight to stall that wagon and demand we sort between my partner and a player the IC townreads is dumb af.

[LuckyLuciano]

Norwegian, on the other hand, has been trying to manipulate people for days and trying to keep his reads intentionally flexible.

[Almost50]

(3) Titus is the only NK that allows Norwegian to win. If I die, you and Titus vote Norwegian. If you die, Titus and I vote Norwegian.

I still wouldn't bank on Titus auto-voting Norwee, but OK.

The thing is, he opened the day with caution, which the correct attitude from EITHER alignment. You jumped in with a vote off the gate which is never a town move. Like, forget everything else.. let's talk about how you both entered the game TODAY. Look me in the eye, and tell me honestly that if I had voted Norwee off the game you would have still been confident it's him and not me because Titus was the NK.

Like, why didn't you consider >I< could have killed Titus with as much confidence that Norwee would side by me?

The problem with your arguments (yesterday and today) is that they are always subject to the narrative you want to provide. They do not consider "both sides".

Like, OK. I am the Scum. I killed Titus and I was confident Norwee would never vote me over you. Now kindly prove to me that this is not the case )without using the fact I didn't hammer yet, because you couldn't have known I wouldn't hammer when you voted Norwee)

[LuckyLuciano]

(5) I don't think scum!A50 is as openly hostile towards other players, suicidal, and just a plan asshole. Part of winning is making people like you. You tried your darnedest to make sure that wouldn't happen.

And again, it's more that Norwegian is playing scum ELo 101 than me being convinced you are town. They have done everything they are supposed to do as scum. If you want to hammer me I don't really care, I stopped caring about this game a loooong time ago lmao. Just vote someone so we can move on with our lives.

[LuckyLuciano]

If the condition for you townreading me is me proving that I knew with 100% certainty that you are town, then just hammer me, because it's not going to happen. I don't believe in guarantees in mafia. You only know what's likely and what's not. I made up my mind, so I voted. If you don't like it, oh well.

[Almost50]

(a) If you NK Titus, you lose since, as Norwegian loves to point out, I was leaning you yesterday. If you Norwegian, you risk losing depending on how Titus sways. If you NK me, you just win. This is both the best NK for Norwegian and the worst NK for you. If I'm mafia, I'm NKing A50 and winning by voting Norwegian with Titus.

Not true. Not true at all. My best kill would have always been the IC. The confirmed Townie. Like, I know Norwee would side by me. I also could have killed him and faced you and I never would have lost it despite Titus' natural paranoia of me. I could have killed you and had Titus side by me against Norwee, but that would actually have been the worst option because I benefited nothing from it (it's about what you gain from the LIVING players, and if I had killed you Norwee would know I am the Mafia, so I lost an ally in the process).

You know what would have been really cool? NO KILL. Yep. Make it a 4-way MyLo (what's the new term for that now??) so you would have needed all 3 townies on you. Assuming Titus would still go for Norwee, he thinks it's you, and you go after me, I would trust that she can convince you to vote him, or I could convince her to vote you. THAT would have been MY play.

[NorwegianboyEE]

(5) I don't think scum!A50 is as openly hostile towards other players, suicidal, and just a plan asshole. Part of winning is making people like you. You tried your darnedest to make sure that wouldn't happen.

And again, it's more that Norwegian is playing scum ELo 101 than me being convinced you are town. They have done everything they are supposed to do as scum. If you want to hammer me I don't really care, I stopped caring about this game a loooong time ago lmao. Just vote someone so we can move on with our lives.

Lol nice AtE bud.

[NorwegianboyEE]

"Stopped caring about this game"
*post like 50 posts saying i'm scum*

[LuckyLuciano]

Does explaining what you would do as mafia actually help you work through who you are going to vote? I don't get the point of this, to say that I was wrong to vote Norwegian over you? Stop jerking your ego and vote someone already.

Pedit: "Taking a break"

[Almost50]

Norwegian earlier said that I can't be scum if I actually thought you were doc.

No he didn't. He said you can't be SK, and you even asked him why it didn't apply to you being Mafia. Show me where he responded to that question by acknowledging it did apply to Mafia too. (Then again, even if he did, I don't concur and I already explained why)

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pedit: "Taking a break"

You know, cheap shades like this are one of the reasons i started scumreading you in the first place.

[Almost50]

I don't think scum!A50 is as openly hostile towards other players, suicidal, and just a plan asshole. Part of winning is making people like you. You tried your darnedest to make sure that wouldn't happen.

But you were convinced it was me yesterday, and for exactly those same reasons!

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pedit: "Taking a break"

You know, cheap shades like this are one of the reasons i started scumreading you in the first place.

And i'd imagine it's the same for A50.

[LuckyLuciano]

What are the rules for prodging at ELo? If my vote is down do I have to come back every few days and say "Nowegian is still scum." Or can I just dip out while A50 runs circles around himself?

Pedit: I don't think he responded saying it should apply to me being mafia, he responded by saying he suddenly doesn't believe that I actually thought you were doc anymore. He didn't attack the conclusion of my logic, but tried to attack the legitimacy of my initial read, yet he never responded to the post where I traced me thoughts on you being doc.

Pedit 2: Yep, and then by EoD I realized that I was confbiasing you. Dude, just hammer me if you are so convinced it's me. I really don't care if we win this or lose this. I just want this game to be over.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Dude, just hammer me if you are so convinced it's me. I really don't care if we win this or lose this. I just want this game to be over.

Of course, scum doesn't care if we "win or lose".
Lmao dude, just scumclaim already.

[LuckyLuciano]

Interesting how Norwegian isn't trying to prove I'm scum to A50, but is instead just stirring the pot.

[LuckyLuciano]

Lmao dude, just scumclaim already.

You got me. I'm the Godfather. Sucks to be me I guess. /shrug

[NorwegianboyEE]

Interesting how Norwegian isn't trying to prove I'm scum to A50

Do i need to?
I think it's obvious by this point.

[LuckyLuciano]

Congrats on the win Norwegian. Carried by the SK. Well played.

[LuckyLuciano]

Kinda funny that I thought I'd be Kingmaker in this spot, since it's so fucking obvious that I'm town. Interesting how things turn out.