Open 783: We Need a Fourth (Game over)


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Post Post #50 (ISO) » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:52 pm

Post by A Fourth »

Huh, I think that actually works.
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Post Post #51 (ISO) » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:54 pm

Post by Klick »

You'd have scored a fair amount of town points if you had done it fwiw. :P
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Post Post #52 (ISO) » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:56 pm

Post by A Fourth »

VOTE: Not Known

Okay, I see no reason not to do this. Come in with that HAMMER, Bot.
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Post Post #53 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:18 am

Post by Klick »

In post 46, A Fourth wrote:I can see you both as scum still. If you're both scum, your objective is to distance as much as possible and convince me this isn't a conspiracy. Going with contrasting plans doesn't mean you're unaligned.
That is exactly why you should have supported NK unvoting: if NK and I were scum together, that forces a random 50-50 at best for you. (Before this new plan came up of course)
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Post Post #54 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:08 am

Post by A Fourth »

Funnily enough, if you and Not Known are mafia, the best you can get now is a draw. I'm hoping you didn't realise that lol

But most likely, the bot is flipping scum here since one of you probably would've figured that out.
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Post Post #55 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:51 am

Post by Klick »

How's that? I don't think there's any way this game can end in a draw?
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Post Post #56 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:13 am

Post by Kerset »

Vote Count 1.01With 4 votes in play, it takes 3 to lynch.

Not Known 15 (3): Klick, A Fourth, Bot
Klick (0):
Bot (1): Not Known 15,
A Fourth (0):

Not Voting
(0):


Deadline:
(expired on 2020-06-22 16:00:00).


Mod notes:
-


Not Known 15 was lynched on day 1.

Spoiler: Their role was
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Post Post #57 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:42 am

Post by Kerset »

It is now Day 2


Vote Count 2.00With 3 votes in play, it takes 2 to lynch.

A Fourth (1): Bot
Klick (0):
Bot (0):


Not Voting
(0): Klick, A Fourth,


Deadline:
(expired on 2020-06-24 17:00:00).


Mod notes:
-


Klick have been revealed as member of
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Post Post #58 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:24 am

Post by A Fourth »

So Not Known was bussing the bot lol, that's hilarious.
I wonder why he chose you, I would've had a significant amount of paranoia right now.
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Post Post #59 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:26 am

Post by A Fourth »

In post 55, Klick wrote:How's that? I don't think there's any way this game can end in a draw?
Well, if the bot is town and you two were scum, Not Known 15 would be lynched and reveal me as town. Then, the bot votes you and I decide between you two.

But even if you convince me to vote the bot, we would both die because the bot kills the first two voters. So with everyone dead, it's a draw.
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Post Post #60 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:27 am

Post by A Fourth »

Anyway, it should be obvious I didn't take the lose or draw route as scum.

VOTE: Bot
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Post Post #61 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:46 am

Post by Klick »

In post 2, Kerset wrote:If the bot is lynched and is Town, the Bot will immediately shoot both the players who voted it first and second.
I suppose that's one interpretation of this rule. I took this to mean that the Bot would do this Day 1. Even so, there would be 1 Town and 1 Scum alive at the point we lynched the Bot, leading to a Mafia win.

@Kerset: Does the above rule apply even on Day 2?
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Post Post #62 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:03 am

Post by Kerset »

In post 61, Klick wrote:@Kerset: Does the above rule apply even on Day 2?
It does
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Post Post #63 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:06 am

Post by Klick »

VOTE: Bot

What an odd loophole. :P
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Post Post #64 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:09 am

Post by Klick »

In post 2, Kerset wrote:If the bot is lynched and is Mafia, the partner selects someone to reveal.
I feel like this rule implies it shouldn't work on D2, but I'll take it regardless.
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Post Post #65 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:11 am

Post by Klick »

Of course, one
could
argue that Not Known 15 and A Fourth were the two players to vote Bot first and second, meaning that if Bot is town, I wouldn't get shot.

...right? :P
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Post Post #66 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:29 am

Post by A Fourth »

Trueee, there's so many potential loopholes to exploit here. The rules should be altered if we're doing a round 2, which I'm definitely down for btw.
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Post Post #67 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:30 am

Post by A Fourth »

Maybe we should get A Third in to really spice the game up.
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Post Post #68 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:58 am

Post by Kerset »


Vote Count 2.01With 3 votes in play, it takes 2 to lynch.

Bot (2): Klick, A Fourth,
A Fourth (1): Bot
Klick (0):


Not Voting
(0):


Deadline:
(expired on 2020-06-24 17:00:00).


Mod notes:
-


Bot has been lynched on day 2

Spoiler: Their role was
Vanilla Townie



According to VC 2.01 Klick and A Fourth are first and second players, who voted him and should be immediately killed.
Therefore this game should end in draw according to setup rules.
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Post Post #69 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:59 am

Post by Kerset »

I am not the setup designer but sorry that i didn't check all possibilities correctly. There wasn't any appropriate way to fix this when game was ongoing. Any "clarification" would put scum on disadvantage, because NK was already playing towards present setup win conditions and he would be harmed if he would need to change his exposed strategy. They only way to correct this would be to change rules and reroll alignments.
If you all want a rematch then we can make such, this time with proper rules. If not then this game ends as a draw.
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Post Post #70 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:01 am

Post by Klick »

It was short enough and we've had a chance to get used to the rules - I'd be fine to play again :) don't beat yourself up Kerset.

It should be clear what was intended by the setup!
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Post Post #71 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:04 am

Post by Not Known 15 »

In post 70, Klick wrote:It should be clear what was intended by the setup!
It SHOULD yes. Unfortunately, the clauses are missing Day 1 or In LYLO, whilst others dont.
And the deadline problem is also not resolved in the rules. The setup is far from perfect I am afraid. I won`t do a rematch right now before knowing what the revised rules are... especially about that deadline votes problem.
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Post Post #72 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:08 am

Post by Klick »

Did you actually misinterpret the rule about the Bot shooting on D2? Or did you find that technically it could be interpreted that way and start playing it that way to see if it would stick?
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Post Post #73 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:21 am

Post by Kerset »

In post 71, Not Known 15 wrote:
In post 70, Klick wrote:It should be clear what was intended by the setup!
It SHOULD yes. Unfortunately, the clauses are missing Day 1 or In LYLO, whilst others dont.
And the deadline problem is also not resolved in the rules. The setup is far from perfect I am afraid. I won`t do a rematch right now before knowing what the revised rules are... especially about that deadline votes problem.
Feel free to give your suggestion. Mine would be

Day 1,
If the bot is lynched and is Town, the Bot will immediately shoot
everyone expect person, who placed last vote on him.

Day 1,
If the bot is lynched and is Mafia, the partner selects someone to reveal.

Here, if bot gets lynched with a single vote via deadline, everyone who haven't voted him will die. There is no way players find this optimal way to play. Also if bot gets lynched with a 2 votea via deadline then one person, who haven't voted him basically agrees to die, which is makes no sense for him either.
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Post Post #74 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:06 am

Post by Not Known 15 »

In post 73, Kerset wrote:Here, if bot gets lynched with a single vote via deadline, everyone who haven't voted him will die. There is no way players find this optimal way to play. Also if bot gets lynched with a 2 votea via deadline then one person, who haven't voted him basically agrees to die, which is makes no sense for him either.
Yeah thats what I feared. Scum can still go for the lynch town bot thingy... by not voting and then quickly voting seconds before deadline, making this a speed contest(and in this case, if they feel they would lose otherwise(town partner of bot is convinced of conspiracy). I`d rather not even allow this happening.
Here`s a better idea:
Lynching rules change: If no lynch is achieved at deadline on Day 1, the team controlling the bot wins.
If no lynch is achieved at deadline on Day 2, Mafia wins.(these rules arent even part of the original setup, better to change them majorly...)
Day 1, If the bot is lynched and is Town, the Bot will immediately shoot everyone expect the person who hammered it.
Day 1, If the bot is lynched and is Mafia, the partner selects someone to reveal.
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