Mini #597 - Swift speed: Werewolves (Game over)

[Korts]

Also, forgot.

Mod: please include in the vote count how many votes we need for a lynch. Thanks

Vote count

(3) Phoebus – Chaosweaver, Korts, clammy
(1) Korts – Phoebus
(1) Xanatos Roulette - SleepyPanda
(1) killa seven – donkeyz12212
(1) Shy Guy – Xanatos Roulette
(1) Jenter Brolincani – Mr. Blonde
(1) Clammy - Shy Guy

(1) No Lynch – W!nt3r

Not voting:

Jenter Brolincani, killa seven

(12 players alive = 7 to lynch before deadline)

Deadline:

Tuesday 20 May 11:40 PM

[Mr. Blonde]

korts, post 74:
L-5??

[SleepyPanda]

I have to agree that clammy is suspicious, moreso than Korts. Clammy's unvoting of Korts and voting Phoebus, putting Phoebus at 3 votes and Korts at 1 for the sole purpose of not bandwagoning Korts.
I can see how this leads Phoebus to thinking clammy and Korts are scum buddies. However, from what Korts has said, how clammy is trying to buddy up to him, he voices his suspicious on clammy BEFORE Phoebus points out that he thinks Korts+clammy are working together. Korts is putting clammy under the spotlight first.
I also don't agree with Phoebus explaining the strategy where a scum votes his buddy just so he can later claim that he found him suspicious if he does get lynched. At least not in this case, as clammy voting Korts was purely random (first post) and it doesn't hold merit later on if more obvious connections between them are found as it was just a random vote.

I don't find Korts particularly scummy from Phoebus' argument. Korts vote jumping was still during the random stages and voting donkey's for contradicting himself was more of a reason than any of the other votes at the time. I also find Phoebus saying Korts' contradiction (feeling of looming deadline/not afraid of quicklynch) to be pretty weak.

I also find Phoebus a tad suspicious because of how he's so sure Korts is scum based on his arguments. I just don't see it.

I believe out of Korts, Phoebus, and clammy, only one would likely be scum and the other two are not, just because of the fact of how the game has gone on so far. And I believe that clammy is most scummy, so

unvote, vote: clammy.

[Korts]

korts, post 74:
L-5??

The way I counted, it's 7 votes to lynch. With two votes on me, it would be five votes from lynch, thus L-5 (meaning Lynch -5)

[clammy]

clammy: hmm, unvoting korts for "making sure he isn't quick-lynched" makes sense, but why then vote Phoebus? Would you like to see him quicklynched?

I woldn't not like to see anyone quick-lynched, but i saw danger in the korts wagon as phoebus was, and still is, being incessant in null-tells. Need i mention this applies directly to his case against me and that it's a royal OMGUS to boot? Kinda surprised none of you picked up on that but perhaps you were leaving me to mention it.

That, and why did clammy feel the need to unvote when I was at L-5. Did he feel the points against me were justified? If so, why didn't he leave his vote on me?

I did not feel the points were justified, your pushing on the random vote issue made me raise my eyebrows, but the push back of all the deadline talk and worry over a quick-lynch, i fully endorse your position here as it actually works. The fact that Phoebus was still pushing (and is still pushing) on those buttons is the reason my vote went whee it is.

[clammy]

And Phoebs has made me laugh, if he can find scum based on who posted first good for him.

Phoebus, i emphatically and comprehensively apologise that my timezone makes me look scummy. *rolls eyes*

[SleepyPanda]

Need i mention this applies directly to his case against me and that it's a royal OMGUS to boot?

Are you referring to Phoebus here? He never placed a vote on you, only voiced his suspicions. It seems to me from Phoebus' last post, his top suspect is still Korts.

but i saw danger in the korts wagon as phoebus was, and still is, being incessant in null-tells.

But you do realize that both Korts and Phoebus were both at 2 votes each. Just by unvoting Korts, he'd only have 1 vote, along with like four other people. I don't see this danger you speak of. Only you and Phoebus had votes on Korts at the time, no votes from other players or fos.

[clammy]

I am referring to Phoebus, and a vote is not necessary for a post to be OMGUS. #69 reads to me as

"OMG - i knew clammy was scum when he was the first post, and now he's defended the person i had my vote one - obv-scum!"

I do realise that both had 2 votes, i am far happier being on the wagon of Phoebus at this stage.

[Xanatos Roulette]

What exactly is an OMGUS?

Unvote

[clammy]

wiki link at the top of each page should help you answer that question.

stands for "OMG - You suck!" and is the term used to describe a payback/revenge vote made for no better reason than because a vote was originally placed against yourself.

[Korts]

I woldn't not like to see anyone quick-lynched, but i saw danger in the korts wagon as phoebus was, and still is, being incessant in null-tells. Need i mention this applies directly to his case against me and that it's a royal OMGUS to boot? Kinda surprised none of you picked up on that but perhaps you were leaving me to mention it.

I don't see what you mean by OMGUS, but the case made by Phoebus wasn't "in revenge" as you later clarify. Kinda surprised that you would try to imply that. Anyway, his case against you isn't nulltells, it's theories that can't really be argued with. The case on me wasn't nulltells, either, it was broken logic. NOT the same.

I did not feel the points were justified, your pushing on the random vote issue made me raise my eyebrows, but the push back of all the deadline talk and worry over a quick-lynch, i fully endorse your position here as it actually works.

If you didn't feel the points against me were justified, why did you think it possible for a quicklynch of me to happen without scum outing themselves?

The fact that Phoebus was still pushing (and is still pushing) on those buttons is the reason my vote went whee it is.

I see your reasoning, it's just that by voting Phoebus and taking your vote off me, you've come into a direct contradiction with yourself, and while when your vote was on me, I was only at L-5, with your vote placed on Phoebus he's at L-4, so in fact we're one step closer to a premature lynch than we were while you were voting for me.

"OMG - i knew clammy was scum when he was the first post, and now he's defended the person i had my vote one - obv-scum!"

What the hell? That's not OMGUS. Get your facts straight. You yourself explain it in post 84.

All in all,

unvote: Phoebus, vote: clammy

[Jenter Brolincani]

Gosh, sorry I was out most of yesterday.

Clammy's play is textbook scumbuddying, and he's not clever enough to get away with it either... Korts I think could still easily be town, but clammy is really, really bad...

Other points;
- Changes his argument form 'stopping Korts being lynched' to, when pressured, 'I'm far happier with my vote on Phoebus'.
- Keeps saying the case against him is OMGUS without any mention of the points in it.

vote clammy

[Korts]

Alright, guys, just slow down here. I'd like some more discussion before we quicklynch clammy. He's at L-3 now, and I don't want to go any further before other people put in their two cents worth.

[clammy]

"OMG - i knew clammy was scum when he was the first post, and now he's defended the person i had my vote one - obv-scum!"

What the hell? That's not OMGUS. Get your facts straight. You yourself explain it in post 84.

LOL. so it started with OMG, that's not what i'm calling OMGUS.

If Phoebus is suggesting he suspected i was scum right from my first post, and then fancifully confirms this when i vote him after he attempts to wagon korts, then turns his vote and his story on me after i vote him, that's OMGUS, a vote made where the determining factor was my vote on him and the case he creates is made of "what scum do...", "what scum think..." and "scum-buddies always..."

....

Okay, that's possibly a little of an exageration there, but look at the case a second.
clammy posted first - obvscum!
clammy weighed in to try to help the town - obvscum!!
clammy backed off on his random vote before what he saw as a growing wagon - obvscum!!!1!1one!-!eleventy1billionsquared!!

So yeah, i call that a case of null-tells.

[Jenter Brolincani]

Stop strawmanning clammy, it does your case no good.

I agree a quicklynch is not in order, but at -3 I'm not planning to move my vote.

[Korts]

clammy backed off on his random vote before what he saw as a growing wagon

In fact, that

is

obvscum, considering that you backed straight onto the other wagon.

[Chaosweaver]

The row between Phoebus and Korts has certainly generated posts and analysis. Phoebus does strike me as grumpily defensive, and his case against Korts has in my eyes in large parts been picked apart by others.

While I agree that the votes for quick-lynching Clammy has been falling in fast, I can't but note that the last posts of Korts & Clammy could shake some life into the Clammy-Korts connection...

Okay, that's possibly a little of an exageration there, but look at the case a second.
clammy posted first - obvscum!
clammy weighed in to try to help the town - obvscum!!
clammy backed off on his random vote before what he saw as a growing wagon - obvscum!!!1!1one!-!eleventy1billionsquared!!

Posting first I personally do not see as scumtell, but in post #63 it does look like you back out of random voting just to jump onto another bandwagon...

So with the above, I will

Unvote

for the moment, but I suspect Clammy.

And W!nt3r; Why still a vote for no lynch?


As a sidenote; Two players stand for more than half of the postcount. What I wanted in my first post (#13) was to urge all players to chime in. Some have, some have remained almost silent (me included, granted, but discussions were quicker to pick up than I suspected). Since I didn't express myself clearly, I find that the sarcasm against me back then was at least partly well-deserved.

[Korts]

As a sidenote; Two players stand for more than half of the postcount

/agree

I just have way too much time on my hands right now. We need everyone to post their thoughts.

[clammy]

Jenter, in what way was that a strawman? My understanding of a strawman is that you build one easily defeatable portion of someone's argument up to a focal point and then claim to have defeated the whole argument.

If you ignor my clearly sarcastic commentary how does my representation of the case Phoebus makes against me differ from the case made?

[donkeyz12212]

Gah apologies, this game has picked up immensely quick and I haven't been able to weigh in on my decision.

My first post was on the first page and then BAM, within a day we are on the fourth page already so it definitely was a shocker to me.

First off to Korts, I found it extremely surprising that you ended up voting for me right after pointing out the contradiction to me. You found the flaw in my argument and then when I agreed with you, you simply decided to vote me. This first round really means little as opposed to random voting so I don't find it highly suspicious. What I do find a bit suspicious was your quick action to bring attention to players who have voted you.

In post #20, Korts questions Phoebs as to why his vote for kort was random. Phoes responds by saying it wasn't random and had a reason. It seems also that the manner in which Phoebes responds was kind of hostile, or an attack of sorts. It's probably the way I read it to be honest but still, just the interaction between the two at the beginning leads me to slightly believe one is probably townie, other scum since they were quick to attack each other it seems.

I also think Wint3r's actions on page 2 of this thread is pretty newbish so I'm pretty positive he/she is townie. It might be WIFOM but I just don't think players would randomly posts in the thread without reading, etc. He makes comments such as "I read" and then proceeds to FoS Phoebes with no direct indication as to why. The fact he jumped onto the wagon is something that should be noted.

I also just realized Korts admitted his vote for Phoebs was OMGUS lol. Intense because it seems that Phoebs may have caught Korts in a dandy or something so Korts felt the need to attack back by giving a vote?

And then here's the thing that got me woah:

So phoebes and Korts were at each other throats yeah? And then clammy chimes in and say he doesn't want to be on either bandwagon because he doesn't like the tone and discussion of it. Then he seems to unvote Korts? and chooses to vote for Phoebs instead.

He went from a 2 person vote on Korts to a 3 person vote on Phoebs. So instead of korts being the quick lynch, it is instead Phoebes. Could it be that clammy is trying to protect someone?

That was probably the biggest thing for me so far that pinged my scum radar.

It just doesn't click.

So it definitely draws attention off of Phoebs and Korts so I don't really know what to think now. It was probably a sensible error/post made but with the deadline looming, clammy is most suspect right now.

FOS: Clammy

[Korts]

First off to Korts, I found it extremely surprising that you ended up voting for me right after pointing out the contradiction to me. You found the flaw in my argument and then when I agreed with you, you simply decided to vote me

The vote was because you agreed with me. I found that strange, that you would give up your opinion (even though it was a joke) so easily.

[W!nt3r]

Eww... this clam smells fishy....

[Korts]

Nonono, you got it wrong. The fish smells clammy. And badly.

[Shy Guy]

I also think Wint3r's actions on page 2 of this thread is pretty newbish so I'm pretty positive he/she is townie. It might be WIFOM but I just don't think players would randomly posts in the thread without reading, etc. He makes comments such as "I read" and then proceeds to FoS Phoebes with no direct indication as to why. The fact he jumped onto the wagon is something that should be noted.

Winter has been around this site for about two/three years, and has played in who knows how many games. Why are you defending him for 'being noobish'? I find Winter's contributions thus far fairly suspicious, mostly sheep-ing, and little analysis. He is not a bad scum candidate.

fos: Winter

Phoebus seems to be stretching on korts, reading back over I find korts more town-like than I had previously. I read Phoebus's long post and was not terribly convinced. Besides clammy connections, korts just seems like an uncareful player. I guess that could be called suspicious, but I'm not sure why you would draw that conclusion. What am I not seeing, Phoebus?

clammy, who do you find suspicious, and why?

[W!nt3r]

My comment "*badword* jesters" implies that I think Phoebus may be a jester because it seems like he's either posting entirely made up arguments, or attacking the most miniscule of things, he's dodging questions, and seemingly intentionally trying to get himself lynched...

I've already FoSed him.

Shy Guy is right... My actions are "sheeping" but thats because half of Pheo's arguement is flawed... so there is no reason to comment on it.

My comment: "This clam smells Fishy" is to show that i am aware of the case against clammy but have not yet taken a stand on what his alignment may be. I'm in 4 games here, and 8 devided among a couple of different forums. I agree that I havn't given my normal rather active contributions but I have no clear understanding on clam right at this moment so merely stating my discomfort with his actions should be enough... You all have pretty much given me the answers to the same questions I would have asked him if I were playing as regularly as I usually do.

Your accusation is rather unfair, shy. My contributions may be sheepish but they are founded on the discussions the rest of the group is having. I may not be posting as much as korts or yourself, but i'm learning just as much about the other players as you. Would you rather me come in here and post meaningless banter for the sense "contributing." Because I can do that very well, it just won't help us find scum.