Open 791 | Forest Fire | Game Over

[Bell]

Hiya!
Catching up.

[Bell]

Based off my first 3 pages I feel like pine's current vote was cool and good and do not know why there are not more votes on Ydrasse.
Farren second. Kind of complex headspace there.

Clidd townie. Clidd town. -> Cliid obvtown.
Mena??? Eh. Cool he threw down the policy lurker card, a mena favorite. And Mena Convo with Clidd veered into his principled territory. Probs town. Cool. Two town reads so far.

Mena & Clidd slots can town block with me when they feel like I've earned their recognition.

Morning Tweet: Ydrasse question seems a little bit creative.

Dunstral: Scummeh.
GulityLion. Not familiar with Clidd's sudden read flips or hard town reads based on empathy. Or just trying to break that up. Honest rxn to Farren.
Gamma. Not much to bite into.

Page 1- Page 10.

[Bell]

Isis, why is your vote wrong.

[Bell]

If Ydrasse is in your scum reads why aren't you voting there?

[Bell]

Oh, well okay.
I'm still catching up and I can see how Isis got manipulated there (maybe, if ydrasse is an arsonist anyway).

[Bell]

It's aight Hobbe, I get what you mean.

[Bell]

Case: To put it as simply as possible. Ydrasse is self-narrating, watching and waiting, pocketing Isis in a way that is confusing because Isis should know he's being pocketed.
And a bunch of other minor things.

[Bell]

Think of it as the replace in perspective. To me Ydrasse looks like obvious scum. (inb4 she flips town). But I think my read is quite serious. I'm fine with ending the day now on that elimination and I can case if I want and I don't think Ydrasse could do much to change my mind on their slot because they made too many posts that ping to me.

[Bell]

Going to bed.

[Bell]

i'll be around later tonight/tomorrow to talk more!

@bell: this might be weird to ask since it's about me but could you post some of the things that pinged you abt me?

I slept all day. I'm not sure if I'm happy that happened or worried.

1. This game has angry ghosts. If you push an elimination yourself without a shield the rest of the town is likely to get nagged by vengeful stumps into making you the next elimination.
2. Why would it be weird to be curious about my motivations of my read of you?

[Bell]

Back from walk. Sup?

[Bell]

I want more votes on ydrasse, because I think she’s an arsonist.
That’s uh, that’s pretty much it over here.

[Bell]

Look at those anime eyes and tell me you don’t see a pyromaniac bent on lighting the world on fire.

[Bell]

i’m aware. I appreciate the vote, but what are your reasons if you don’t mind my asking?

[Bell]

i’ll take it.
It shouldn’t change much in terms of my behavior.

[Bell]

Self-narration is when a player trys to construct an accounting of their own internal experience.
Perhaps said differently, it's when a player thinks out loud to get into their town character. The issue is right there in the wording, they don't need to type out their internal reasoning unprompted unless someone asks because they're town already. But a scum player that needs to fake the perspective of a town player might write something like that.

[Bell]

You can see a lot of examples of her talking about her internal reasoning prompted and unprompted. Sometimes she says she doesn't share her change in reads. But she consistently shares what she is internally thinking about whatever topic she's on. By saying 'I think' etc.

[Bell]

Yeah, I don't see you trying to sort anyone?

[Bell]

Talking to people isn't townie if you're at all competent at this game you're aware that doing so is the bare minimum if you care about not getting eliminated. You've mentioned before in other games that A: You were stressed that you were scum and B: That competent scum will change to adjust for their own meta. Isis has looked at A, but either ignored or doesn't care about B.
It's not a town tell and saying it is without explaining why it is, is not convincing me that it's the opposite of what I said.

[Bell]

Oh, I see this is a beeboy vote where you flip them and then sort them afterward.

[Bell]

Yeah, I can see it ydrasse.

[Bell]

Please tell me you can post at times that aren't 12:46am.

[Bell]

Thanks.
I'm turning in.

[Bell]

Aight, trying to learn from my past mistakes here. Hopefully I don't come off as too obnoxious.



Leave the Tea Leaves alone.

[Bell]

The too relaxed to be scum angle is just not enough for me tbh.

[Bell]

Why is farren so low? Just PoE?

[Bell]

It’s all clidd. 4 games, he kind of sucks as scum(no offense Clidd!)

Tea leaves seems friendly though, so I guess that slightly adds to it.

[Bell]

Sorry isis, i don’t See why I should fear the townie.
Misguided tho she may be.
Though you seem a lot less friendly than last time. But mena was town so I don’t quite know what to do with that.
*shrug*

I can’t read dunstral.

Pedit: gamma, it’s short for not really fearing the player list. Or any particular interaction.

[Bell]

Don’t waffle bat friend! Be firm!

[Bell]

Prefer ydrasse.

Will take dunstral for random slim.

[Bell]

Gamma do you prefer playing scum or town?

[Bell]

Tea leaves could you tell me why you aren’t scum this game based on a self meta case?

[Bell]

Yeah. It’s supposed to be wifomy, but I try hard to see the truth of it anyway. Didn’t realize you were an alt.
Just say whatever you personally feel are behaviors you wouldn’t do as scum or things you only do as town etc. from your perspective.

[Bell]

Cool. You’re still town imo.
So that doesn’t really change much to me
Thanks for sharing.

[Bell]

Well, actually it kinda does because you immediately said it which contradicts your self scum meta because it might take you longer as scum to say that.

[Bell]

I scum lean: ydrassed.
I’m neutral on gamma.
I’m neutral on Dunn.
I’m strangely neutral on MT because I keep seeing stuff that feels kind of positiony. But also a lot of proactive effort there. So actually lean town.
I weak town lean: lion and Darren
Strong town lean: isis, tea leaves.

[Bell]

Gunna put MT into the maybe scum pile if ydrasse is actually scum.

[Bell]

Sorry, but you’re both probably town this game and it’s a shame she can’t see it.

[Bell]

So basically when you have free time you prefer to be scum and when you don’t you prefer to be town?

[Bell]

Seems to crave interaction. Kind of nervous when things aren’t happening like he can’t quite get a grip on the game in such a way I Think he’d be unable to emulate As scum.

[Bell]

It’s not the bop it’s that when ydresse got heat you came in with a hard town read.
It has two explanations one is just that she’s topical.
Other is to shift off the weight.

[Bell]

^^^see this kind of post is what makes me think she isn’t sorting people. She just states her opinion and doesn’t really invite challenges minus those question marks. She also focuses on one view and doesn’t try to consider other possibilities. It’s narrow

[Bell]

Tbh, i’m Not sure you’d say “don’t make me look like an idiot ydrasse!!!”
As scum tho.

[Bell]

Alt slip.

[Bell]

I’m going to tell everyone I know.
Scandal of the year.

[Bell]

Dunnstrall is one of those rare players where everyone is scum/null reading him which would normally make him maybe not scum, but if his partner town read him he’d be outted as partner because you couldn’t possibly know that.

[Bell]

^^^ = 3 posts above this one.

[Bell]

So ydrasse is scum, you agree!

[Bell]

No, isis definitely meant to cc arsonist.

[Bell]

I really woupdn’t mT I’d you do another i’ll Be forced to put you into obv town territory.

[Bell]

Farren hasn’t been very vocal about ydrasse?

[Bell]

Maybe you’re scum!

[Bell]

The latter.

[Bell]

Yeah, MT, they’re never muddled. Or at least since I got back they haven’t been.

[Bell]

Mine’s snoopy from the peanuts comics. He is the best dog.

Dunstral’s is from fate/stay/night. The adoptive father of the main protagonist and assassin/the ends justify the means before learning that isn’t cool.

[Bell]

EBWOP - with respect to the L-1 Dunn vote, that was after you posted this whole analysis - wouldn't scum!Ydrasse know that trying hard at that point, especially when dropping an L-1,* is going to stand out?

dropped a comma

Hmm. Maybe?

[Bell]

I’m not entirely sure why people are tone reading gamma at all tbh.

[Bell]

Not me. Here.

[Bell]

Unofficial VC:

Dunnstral - 4 (Morning Tweet, GuiltyLion, tea leaves, Ydrasse)
Ydrasse - 2 (Bell, Dunnstral)
tea leaves - 2 (Isis, Gamma Emerald)
Not voting: Farren


Uh, are you guys not going to unvote here or.

[Bell]

It's just guilty lion left.

THERE ARE 4 HOURS LEFT TILL DEADLINE.

[Bell]

Tea Leaves shook his head.

[Bell]

Let's get Ydrasse.
If her ghost haunts me,
well, I'll deserve it.

[Bell]

Oh.
Cool.

[Bell]

Well, I'll deserve it because she would be town if she haunted me.
If you mean why I think she's scum I already said why. Even if you disagree with my reasons. They're still my reasons.

[Bell]

Also the Haunting thing is kind of what, even she must be aware that she isn't doing a ton to seem town, that's part of the reasons some are town reading her so the contradiction is weird.

[Bell]

Nah, there was an extension but the mod forgot to add the time in.

[Bell]

Gamma, the first post I made was the short version.
1. Self-narration. Someone mentioned that they do this IRL as town, but I'm talking about online mafia.
2. Watching and Waiting.
3. Using Isis as a shield.

I'm not saying I'm 100% confident that she's scum, I just think she's scum.

[Bell]

@Gamma, I just quick iso'd you.
Er, do you have reads?

[Bell]

I feel kinda bad if Dunnstral just gambitted on the deadline for a fake claim and the mod just pushed the chair out from under him.

[Bell]

Why do you suspect Tea leaves if you're just kind of rolling with everyone else's opinions?
Last voice in the room about Tealeaves was me who said town.

@MT: I can't really argue with this. I think she's had one scum game here, yeah? Iso'd her posts there and I agree that if she has not changed at all since that last game then she isn't scum this game. But there's a lot of factors getting in the way of 1 to 1 meta on alignment. Things like mood, attitude, time circumstance etcetera that could probably just as easily explain it?

[Bell]

Isis?

[Bell]

Hi, what're you thinking about?

[Bell]

I feel like you could shut me down and strangle a wagon on ydrasse if you really believed she was town. However, you stated you had a weak read there. Are you just watching and listening and trying to figure stuff out?

Pedit: Ah, I see Gamma. Just for Isis.

[Bell]

Aight. Guiltylion usually posts around now. I think. Or maybe he'll post sometime tomorrow. Thanks for answering.

[Bell]

@MT we all reserve that right lmao.

[Bell]

Wow, where did this Isis conviction come from?

Don't tease.

[Bell]

I'm not sure anyone could scum or town read you.

[Bell]

I like really strongly want to believe that GuiltyLion is about to claim Firefighter here so I don't really want to think about the game as much till that's confirmed/denied

Dunnstral's post looks like how he'd structure a fakeclaim. But I could be wrong; if you're confirmed inno you kind of can devilmaycare if you want to

LET'S GO GUILTY COME ON !!!!! you went to firefighter school didn't you ???

Not that I wont accept Dunn as our saviour and all but like, it'd make the game a lot easier and

me a lot less incorrect

So confusing.

[Bell]

@MT: No, I got that. I just don't know how you could be anything other than neutral on Dunn. I don't disagree on the votes there (besides it being unfortunate he was a PR). Since you have to push there to solve. It's just weird you could heavy scum lean there.

@Pedit: Gamma: I was talking to Isis in that post.

[Bell]

Don't be. My writing can be confusing sometimes.

[Bell]

You had that philosophy this entire game day? If not when did you start thinking that way?

[Bell]

I'm just confused what town or scum Ydrasse gains out of a vote RN.

[Bell]

Have you played elsewhere as scum ydrasse? I see one game here, but there's an implication in your earlier posts that you've been scum more than once. Would you mind sharing?

[Bell]

What do you make of Dunnstral voting you here?

[Bell]

A better player would be able to put together the pieces here and make a decision on Ydrasse's alignment from this interaction.

[Bell]

What do you guys think of Gamma,
If, hypothetically I waffled.

[Bell]

@Farren That's not a likely team. Leaf+Ydrasse.

[Bell]

@Farren That's not a likely team. Leaf+Ydrasse.

Why's that? Specifically that team, or is this another Gandalf invocation?

Interactions don't look like scum on scum to me.

[Bell]

I guess to elaborate Farren,
I don't see much hesitance in/occupation with Ydrasse when responding to Ydrasse.
Likewise he seemed to be getting increasingly nervous as Ydrasse pressured him and scum partners don't usually get nervous when pressured by their scum partners.

[Bell]

i am choosing to townread bell now

It's always nice when my scum reads town read me.

[Bell]

will you take care of my stump, bell? make sure it's pretty? ghosts can't take care of their stumps.

This is scummy no matter which color she flips.

[Bell]

^^ Sometimes when people say this, it's just scum tho.

[Bell]

Going to bed, will be awake at deadline so no worries there.

[Bell]

I understand now why Lion is guilty.

[Bell]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Bell]

in general i think that posting of unsureness/confusion/etc feels townier. it's a vulnerability that scum would be more self-conscious of admitting?

Nope.

[Bell]

I strongly prefer Gamma to Tealeaves.
I would rather Ydrasse than tealeaves too.
It is the opinion of this court that Gamma would be a happier stump than a tree if a tree at all he be.

[Bell]

Than give me a better elimination with a reason.
It's a wrong idea to follow Radiant's footsteps unless you're as accurate as he is.

[Bell]

Why do you think?

[Bell]

I waffled.
That's pretty much the reason.

[Bell]

Why do you think?

I’d guess you’re deflecting from Ydrasse’s wagon.

Definitely not RC.

[Bell]

It's probably something like GuiltyLion + Farren though

Really? Why?

@Pedit: Heh, RC was around back then. I played with him 2-3 times.

[Bell]

Gamma is at E-2.
We have 7 hours? I think.

[Bell]

VOTE: tea leaves
There’s stronger reason imo for Ydrasse to be scum but I’m not gonna let myself get eliminated with how things are going down rn

Er, is there a better time for you let yourself be eliminated?

[Bell]

I'm the waffle master. It's no one's fault but my own if I let Scumdrasse slip through my soft, malleable wafflely fingers.

[Bell]

Well, Dunnstral voted you first.
And Then I did.
Are you saying Isis and Tea Leaves and MT are scum here or.

[Bell]

TemporalLich does too.

[Bell]

But honestly, it makes no sense because the Tree isn't exiled.
They're executed with an axe and then they stay within the community.

[Bell]

You ever get that feeling like you're going to end up regretting whichever person you didn't end up voting to flip.

[Bell]

If I want to change my mind it' literally now or never given the amount of time left on the clock and the people present.
*Phew*

[Bell]

Time for my favorite question:
Gamma, why aren't you scum this game?

[Bell]

Wow, that's one of the worst answers I've ever heard.

[Bell]

Well, I changed my mind and now I'm changing my mind again maybe.

[Bell]

How is it random if I hesitated, suspected you weren't hunting enough,
Isis and I both lent credence to the counterpoint, that actually, scum sometimes are aimless.
Tealeaves was town reading ydrasse
and confirmed town voted you?

[Bell]

That's valid weight heading your way.

[Bell]

I understand it might be hard to swallow with a 2man team, but let’s also consider that it seems like no one has bothered to stick up for me in a meaningful capacity besides myself? At least one Town was closer to elimination than I was if I am scum, why doesn’t the other scum redirect to that Townie? And like I’m pretty sure everyone who hasn’t indicated interest in voting me specifically has checked in.

Hmm.

[Bell]

It's hard to stick up for aimless maybe Tree.

[Bell]

Besides Ydrasse I think she did stick up for you.
It seemed kind of negative toward her win condition. For her, one of the reasons I switched my vote to you was because she was cutting herself off from a wagon that she didn't need to cut herself off from as scum.
Then again maybe it was a soft defense and she just recognized the game state better. *Thinks*

[Bell]

There was telegraphed interest in your wagon when Ydrasse defended you as aimless town.
If Tea Leaves wagon didn't work out, she seemed the next on the chopping block. At least in my view. So not saying "Maybe, Gamma could be scum!" as a second viable wagon would be against her win condition.

[Bell]

Nah, I didn't have negative reactions there was a consistent undercurrent to his suspicions of me.
I had negative reactions to Ydrasse/Bell scum team diversion which was, kinda nuts.

[Bell]

MT, are you being the reasonable scumz RN who knows that we're miseliminating a tree?

[Bell]

What are your scum reads again?

[Bell]

Farren flashwagon anyone? I have a dream.

No thank you,
Maybe later.

[Bell]

Someone hammer. So I can know if I'm dumb or not (I already know I'm dumb).

[Bell]

No. Go for it.

[Bell]

So were you town Gamma?

[Bell]

I really enjoy it when my heart sinks.
Don't keep me in suspense Gamma.

[Bell]

Wow, he's really gunna do it.
He's gunna leave me hanging here.

[Bell]

Sorry Gamma.

[Bell]

VOTE: MorningTweet

[Bell]

By heavy scum lean, I merely mean you voted hI’m up to claim. Which I consider to be a serious vote.
As for why, I think it’s a combination of metaing you., realizing that effort is a thing you do as both alignments and thinking about your positioning on both wagons(or lack thereof) and your reflected attitudes there.

[Bell]

I don’t really think guiltylion is scum based on how he interacted with Gamma as he wagoned him.
I can see Farren. But I think you’re most likely scum out of the two of you.

[Bell]

Also, I feel the question you lodged at me was more to look for cracks than a genuine attempt to read me.
But we’ll see. I don’t think it will be particularly easy to convince other players to vote you.
And you know, i’m Going to think about this one for awhile.

[Bell]

Oh, I thought you ignored me lol. That really triggered my scumdar.

[Bell]

Yeah I thought about and shifted weight from Ydrasse to MT. I thought about end day gamma/Gl interactions and whether it was natural for GL to be as insightful as he was being in regards to me/ydrasse.
I thought about. given my averageness in scum hunting, if I should be looking at my null reads rather than my scum reads more.

Why do you have such a strong read on me Farren?

[Bell]

Oh, you were talking to tealeaves. Woops.

[Bell]

If you guys make an insanely good case on tea leaves i’ll Consider it.
But clidd kind of obvtowns every game he’s in and this game wasn’t an exception to that.

[Bell]

If you guys make an insanely good case on tea leaves i’ll Consider it.
But clidd kind of obvtowns every game he’s in and this game wasn’t an exception to that.

I don't really see how clidd was obvtown, he said his scum reads were Pine/Dunn and gave a locktown read on Menalque, pushed back against me when I voted him but didn't scumread me.

*blink*
And?

[Bell]

AtE, randomly assign lock towns. Be creative and sporadic. Doesn’t share his feelings as much.

[Bell]

I like this game. Everybody is trying.

[Bell]

Why am I and Isis town tea leaves? Guiltylion?

[Bell]

lol this is an interrogation. At least post some cute cat/bat pictures while you're at it

You don’t do well with pressure. Is that typical for you as town/scum?

[Bell]

[Bell]

*melts*

[Bell]

lol this is an interrogation. At least post some cute cat/bat pictures while you're at it

You don’t do well with pressure. Is that typical for you as town/scum?

Nah, I'm fine with pressure. I just find this somewhat funny.

You seemed kinda panicked when ydrasse pushed you.

[Bell]

Interrogation is one possible viewpoint. But there's another possible viewpoint as well.

I don't usually post pictures during the game. There are rare exceptions, but I don't think any of them are likely to come into play here.

Okay, so, Farren; I played with you in your last game here. You took the game seriously in a similar way, but you also joked around some and felt more casual. Is there a reason for this change?

Iso him, he joked around mid-late day and I felt kind of the opposite here where I felt he was contradicting himself when he claimed he would be super analytical all game, but never brought it up until today really.

Sure i’ll Get them.

[Bell]

I explained it as best I could I just felt like voting Farren because I recently saw something from him I disliked and was

feelin

it.

It's not black and white in my mind Ydrasse. I can't say I scumread one more than the other but yes that is something from him I disliked and influenced my vote.
I thought you were townreading me!

I'm sorry if I wasn't playing optimally but I don't think I should be scummy for that! It was just a spur of the moment decision that you're looking into too much.

I just reread the rest of tea’s posts and I don’t see much scummy there tbh.

[Bell]

Happy bday Ydrasse.

[Bell]

It doesn’t sound weird at all. Makes total sense to me. Everything You do and get questioned on you seem to have an answer for. I find skulking around the dunstral wagon to be pretty townie tbh.

[Bell]

So how’d the reread of isis go, and why do you think MT is town?

Ydrasse, farren, Morning.

[Bell]

I'm always going to have vague solviness unless someone directly asks me to quote stuff.
As scum here, I wouldn't respond to this, but I'd be a lot less vague going forward.

[Bell]

My case on MT is fairly simple.
To me it looks like she positioned herself last day phase.
I'm also seeing stuff I might do as scum that she's doing in her chat with Tea to get him pocketed.

[Bell]

^ Somethingawful has a let's play community. Someone translated all the dialogue and made a screen shot let's play. for the first one. Somethingawful has a 10$ registration fee for constant access to the site. Typically, the LP forums is open to anyone, but occassionally the forum is closed to members as a way of increasing revenue.

[Bell]

Yes and no, it was more that you seemed to have no scum reads at all. So, “keep everybody's blood off my wings” would be more accurate. Or perhaps better said, “keep everybody happy with me.”

I think you would have voted him if it got down to it as either alignment. Not sure what your point is there.

[Bell]

It’s not really the same.
Here you’re keeping people happy while in whygun regardless of what your reads were, you were in their face and solving with, for lack of a better word, alacrity. Here you seem more methodical and removed. Something I suspect you’re aware of given your live Mt session with tea leaves.

I think for some inner perspective here on my attitude after messing up on gamma. I think it’s important to just pick yourself up and keep trying to push your scum reads while making extra double sure you listen to everyone else’s POV and seriously consider Sheeping them if you think they have a good case. I’m just mentioning this because I don’t want to seem arrogant or I don’t feel properly embarrassed that I didn't hit scum.

[Bell]

This is really tough.

[Bell]

Am I allowed to use 1410

No.

[Bell]

I need one of Ydrasse, GL, Farren, MT to raise their hands real high and announce they're town to PoE to victory.

@Isis, I don't really know.

[Bell]

Great, let's go down the list and hope we didn't fuck up.

[Bell]

I think you're underestimating the impact confirmed town can have on a game?

[Bell]

I need one of Ydrasse, GL, Farren, MT to raise their hands real high and announce they're town to PoE to victory.

@Isis, I don't really know.

But I'm reeeally short!!

If I assume that pool is right, maybe it's GL/Ydrasse and my meta on Ydrasse is incorrect. Ah but I did look over that earlier i think and it seemed like GL was willing to kill Ydrasse pretty hard. Hm.. who would GL's partner be...

Maybe if I can answer that question with a pool of a couple ppl later today ill switch my vote. Atm unsure

UNVOTE:

Meh, if you're scum this game you're literally thinking one step ahead of me. Who's town, which is scary good emulated town play and out of my league if scum.

[Bell]

why does scum Farren embark on such a pointless exercise that doesn't really have any lamisty shine to it and also doesn't really help him push any chopping in particular

Oh hey.

[Bell]

I kind of hate it when my scum reads just naturally shift to the two least active non-cleared players.

[Bell]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

Okay. He seems to be decent at playing scum. But I can see it after isoing his first 50 posts or so.

[Bell]

I’m going to TRY to read soon, but can I just get the 411 on the GL wagon real quick

He lacks imagination in his first 50 or so posts that I find it difficult to believe comes from town.

[Bell]

No. Isis described it as not being able to feel anything from him.
I would describe it as somebody who knows how to do their job and doesn't deviate from it.

[Bell]

Wait which one of you even is Guilty's partner?

Would be, is, whatever. Bell/Farren aren't really jumping out to me as the greatest candidates. Please don't have it be like Isis or Ydrasse or something. Maybe it would be though

sorry i was busy today, I should have a nice amount of time to devote to figuring this or some other stuff out tomorrow.

This is a good Q. Do you want to dig into this now, or after?

[Bell]

Wait which one of you even is Guilty's partner?

Would be, is, whatever. Bell/Farren aren't really jumping out to me as the greatest candidates. Please don't have it be like Isis or Ydrasse or something. Maybe it would be though

sorry i was busy today, I should have a nice amount of time to devote to figuring this or some other stuff out tomorrow.

This is a good Q. Do you want to dig into this now, or after?

[Bell]

MT herself says that effort is scum indicative for her (in another completed game). But if she's literally thinking what I'm thinking and then looking another step ahead, she might as well be town for all the difference it makes.
Maybe she'll slip up later. But she's doing very solid so far.

[Bell]

How earnest, I admire that. So I guess you do want me to go back and read, even though MT is kinda bussing her partner (or got on this wagon late).
Do you want to keep focusing on associations or would you like to focus on guiltyLion and making sure he's scum/town? I've never been particularly great at finding scum partners pre-flip.

[Bell]

Though, I feel that's a little unfair when I have been reading and rereading and metaing her etc.
Though maybe I think you're accusing me of a lack of effort when you aren't.

[Bell]

Nah, I admire earnestness. I can be sarcastic, so when a genuine compliment comes through it gets muddled sometimes.
Sure I'll read it.

[Bell]

Why not directly ask MT to clear up these questions?
To my knowledge MT has not done a META exclusive scum read on her partner before.

It terms of plausibility? I'm not sure she could read those games, iso those games, get an understanding of those games quote those games and write all that in exactly 45 minutes.
She's self aware enough to know that level of effort makes her look town which is in part why she said she efforts as scum and that's alignment indicative for her. In terms of her angle whether she's being selfless enough or trying to look town hard enough and comparing it to this game. What I can immediately share with you is that she always spoiler tags her stuff when it gets too big.

I think some of the confidence in that meta read is a little strange in how she grasps it but I expect it may just be because she knows the alignment going forward and she's focusing on what's important to HER about Ydrasse. I think you could reach these conclusions she made easily enough even if she wasn't inside this game in particular, it's a bubble space because she's interpreting games that have already happened in the same way someone might comment on a movie, what I mean by this is that she absolutely 100% can have genuine town opinions and it's about whether she manipulated her findings or felt she needed to censor them because, if Ydrasse isn't her partner what if my case makes her look super town as she actually is and I unlock her into obv town to the rest of the town? Or the opposite and she shows her partner to be scum.

Er. I don't know? Those questions are really hard for me to answer.

[Bell]

While reading, I don't know why she would share some parts of the information of her analysis of Ydrasse. She notes that melo/elo Ydrasse cares a lot more as town, while as scum she tends to care all the time. Part of the formula (scum generalized anxiety) is there and can be seen at the time. But she revealed AI information for elo-melo that would be useful if Ydrasse wasn't aware of it .I also don't think she weighed how self-aware Ydrasse is about what is about AI meta information on her. But I rarely am that thoughtful either. Just due to time constraints, difficulty planning, confidence in interpreting what I'm seeing from the plan etc.

[Bell]

My brain is fried.

[Bell]

Re: 1492 - going into details kinda defeats the purpose of doing it.

Consider this though - if you hammer me because my "reaction is bad", I'll be here D3 and I want to understand exactly why you did that prior to my flip

and yes I am calling you scummy based on that post - I don't get the sense you've ever really committed to a firm read on me and it's problematic that you're giving yourself room to hammer in advance of me even posting in thread. If you think I'm town you should be defending me and pushing on Ydrasse/Isis for their garbage votes

Wait, why isn't my vote Garbage?

[Bell]

He's clearly a misogynist.

[Bell]

Hmm. You're right, even ad hom's in jest could be hurtful, I apologize.

[Bell]

Why do you think GuiltyLion is scum Ydrasse? Sorry If I missed it.

[Bell]

guilty feels incredibly fake + exaggerated to me; his outrage now (garbage votes) feels just as insincere to me as he did when he was like "guys... guys look at this!" yesterday.

both of the games that i've played with him he was town, and he wasn't like this in those. granted i am also very different than my previous games but with him it's a more... subtle thing? like, he's trying to emulate his town games fmpov rather than just being town.

I did notice a shift in tone. I don't think you're wrong here and yeah, if GL is town he will be back to end you it sounds like. I wonder. Isis implied she had 2 scum reads but only shared GL, but it doesn't feel really relevant to ask her for it, since I think she's town and she can let us know after/if we flip GL. Or focus on something else. I'm kind of chilling today.

@MT, sometimes, I obvious town. This might be a meta issue down the line for me if I stick around and am active enough here.

[Bell]

I really don't want to put in the insane amount of effort required to go over assuming GT is scum and then working backwards on who his partner is.
Based just on what I've seen in his last posts, he's trying to hint that I AM his partner as mis-execution down the line, but that only really works if he's scum this game.

[Bell]

well, I'm town.
I don't think Isis, Farren or Tealeaves are scum. Or you for that matter.

So, I'd say the odds are fairly good they're not both town, yeah.

[Bell]

Yep. that's the one. It's small ofc.

[Bell]

I’m not.
Deal with it.

[Bell]

Okay. It shows a consistent POV and an internal narrative. I'm not sure what to say about that plan for Tea leaves push. Is guiltyLion inexperienced enough not to know that most town players OMGUS when voted? He pushes back against two players, but not the third one. He's saying he stepped on Tea Leaves toes because he's town, but the votes following that weren't related to Tealeaves push to my knowledge.
I also don't remember him ever stepping on my toes, but this is probably a perspective issue.

It's fairly long sighted his post, yes.

What's townie about it Dunn?

[Bell]

It's so weird to me that Ydraase scum would just hop on a wagon like that unless she was bussing her partner. Like, she would know it's suspicious to do that right? Especially if it flipped town.
I kind of get the feeling we're going to get screwed here unless I do something to solve. But I don't see anything in particular that is screaming scum to me and there really, really should be.

[Bell]

Tweet, everytime you say speak to me in that way, I just think you're playing me for a sucker.

[Bell]

It's like someone in a bowler hat winking at me and saying, where's the scum? Where!?

[Bell]

I say we get rid of guilty or Ydrasse, with that information, I will at least be 100% sure one of my reads is wrong if they end up flipping town. Kind of obvious, but there it is.

[Bell]

Hiya.

[Bell]

Re: 1492 - going into details kinda defeats the purpose of doing it.

Consider this though - if you hammer me because my "reaction is bad", I'll be here D3 and I want to understand exactly why you did that prior to my flip

and yes I am calling you scummy based on that post - I don't get the sense you've ever really committed to a firm read on me and it's problematic that you're giving yourself room to hammer in advance of me even posting in thread. If you think I'm town you should be defending me and pushing on Ydrasse/Isis for their garbage votes

Wait, why isn't my vote Garbage?

this question kinda feels like a grab for towncred

Farren said he was keeping an eye on Isis/Ydrasse slots, but then he had no problem with them voting me. whereas you were his strongest townread. I felt he should have been pushing on them specifically, you have nothing to do with that

You're removing the context of that point in order to ask a "why am I town" style of post

guilty feels incredibly fake + exaggerated to me; his outrage now (garbage votes) feels just as insincere to me as he did when he was like "guys... guys look at this!" yesterday.

both of the games that i've played with him he was town, and he wasn't like this in those. granted i am also very different than my previous games but with him it's a more... subtle thing? like, he's trying to emulate his town games fmpov rather than just being town.

I did notice a shift in tone. I don't think you're wrong here and yeah, if GL is town he will be back to end you it sounds like. I wonder. Isis implied she had 2 scum reads but only shared GL, but it doesn't feel really relevant to ask her for it, since I think she's town and she can let us know after/if we flip GL. Or focus on something else. I'm kind of chilling today.

@MT, sometimes, I obvious town. This might be a meta issue down the line for me if I stick around and am active enough here.

shift in tone compared to my past games? did you read my games with Ydrasse that she's referring to?

I think I'm talking myself into a Bell scumread

why are we sure he's town

I felt good about him D1 too but all he's done today is votepark me

Bullshit.

[Bell]

Guys, please don't partner me with Ydrasse.
I don't consent to this.

[Bell]

Is there some reason you omitted me from the garbage pile? Because you were trying to take Farren's attention there, why weren't you FOSING Farren by noting his lack of hunting in that direction. Instead you seemed fairly obtuse, unless I misunderstood?
@GL: I'm talking about your current urgent, emotional tone. Versus your calmer one earlier on day one.

The self conscious comment doesn't make sense to me.

@Tealeaves, NEVER.

[Bell]

3.
I've been keeping count.
It's probably the most important thing going on in the world right now.

[Bell]

Seriously though, please don't partner me with Ydrasse, it's insulting. If I was scum this game, I would never have been able to pull that off with Ydrasse scum.
At least partner me with someone that makes sense.
Like tealeaves.

[Bell]

That's my peer pressure quotient I'll be forced to riot if there's 4 players in that game and join you.
Please don't.

[Bell]

The distancing MT,
I went out of my way to give my partner a hard time when they weren't under suspicion when I came into the game.
It's just something I would ever do, especially when I have no idea how competent they are or how well they would react to me.
It's wifomy, I know, but to me it's pretty obvious that I just don't do that stuff to untested partners.

[Bell]

never*

[Bell]

It's a pointless gamble and I wish other players wouldn't waste their brain power on it, if you're scum, sure go for it, do your best.
But if you're town it's a waste of bandwidth to consider this weird angle.
I don't know why guiltylion switched from his position day 1 (it makes no sense for me to bus Ydrasse) to proposing a ydrasse/Bell team day two.

[Bell]

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_	_	B	_
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underscores will mark untaken squares, players are not locked to X and O, they may use whatever character as long as it's distinct from what others are already using (I just used X because it's a clear marker versus something weird that might confuse people)