Mini Normal 2159 | Cinder Block Mafia | Game Over!


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Post Post #50 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:26 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

As usual, much of what's been posted so far isn't alignment-indicative, but there are a few people who are possible to get (weak) reads on, even this early.

The first player who caught my attention was SJReaver (newbie greeting tell in #), but they've done it before as town (Newbie 2020). #13 still does seem a little off compared to SJReaver's usual first posts, but that might not be surprising for someone who usually replaces. # also strikes me as a bit strange, given that it's worded as a statement to nobody in particular. I can understand being angry with NM for quickhammering in a game in a past (he's historically done it quite a lot), but #13 isn't anger, and it isn't engaging with the person in question, or stating a read, or anything. It's just a statement, and I have no idea why it was made.

My biggest concern, though, is with RCEnigma. # and # look like the sort of posts made by someone who is trying to be hard to read, for whatever reason. #36 is just a straight-up "help a newbie" post; such posts are generally good for the game, but townies tend to answer them as a side thought while doing something else, whereas scum tend to realise "ooh, this is something I can answer without giving anything away" and just answer them, betraying the fact that they aren't really thinking about the game more generally. #37 is an incredibly guarded answer to RQS questions, and the first time I've seen such questions actually produce alignment-indicative answers.

VOTE: RCEnigma
In post 15, ItalianoVD wrote:1. What is your mafia experience?
2. What is your play style strength(s)? Weakness(es)? Do you know?
3. In your opinion, what is the most important thing to look for while scumhunting? While townreading?
1. I used to play more than I do nowadays, and mostly in small games (newbies, Micros, and replacing in late to larger games when the playerlist has become smaller). That's primarily due to a lack of time; I think it's important to avoid joining a game if you might have to replace out. That said, I am fairly experienced.
2. I'm good at looking town early on in games (even when I'm scum). However, I sometimes struggle with that later on; if I haven't established myself as locktown (or been nightkilled) within the first few days, people start getting paranoid of me. My scumhunting is somewhat spotty; sometimes i can catch entire scumteams (this happens more often than chance would predict), but sometimes I can be utterly wrong all game. Even when I do catch scum, it is frequently the case that my reason for the scum read can't possibly have been correct (I'm probably right for the wrong reasons more often than I'm right for the right reasons). I'm also a very experienced setup reviewer, and can often establish someone as 100% town because the setup wouldn't otherwise be balanced (so far I have a perfect record with this sort of read, although the conditions for it don't come up all that often).
3. Assuming we're talking about reading people from their dayplay, there isn't a real difference between scumhunting and townhunting; you just look at players and try to read them. In both cases, the best results I've had in terms of conscious reads have been from trying to figure out what someone is thinking and following their thought process (e.g. when Not_Mafia actually pays attention to the game and puts in effort, he's fairly easy to read this way).
In post 39, Gamma Emerald wrote:Also, VOTE: CFJ, I hope your play matches up to your role and setup design skills
Huh, have you never seen me play? We've been in enough games together, after all; was I the moderator every single time it happened?
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Post Post #51 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:36 pm

Post by sordros »

In post 15, ItalianoVD wrote:I know a few players in the playerlist (SJReaver, Frogsterking, & Walter)

I don’t know the others, but this is for everyone...

1. What is your mafia experience?
2. What is your play style strength(s)? Weakness(es)? Do you know?
3. In your opinion, what is the most important thing to look for while scumhunting? While townreading?

I’ll go first.
  • - This is my 5th game game onsite, however, I have been playing the wolf/village variation of the game on a forum called WeBL since about 2006. I’m still learning how to play the game on this platform; trying to get the terms down and all that; still learning the roles and alignment s and slots and all that, so by mafia standards I’m still a noob. ;)
    - I’d have to say my strength is the ability to townread players. Because of my overall experience I am right on village/town reads probably about 80-85% of the time all time. It’s obviously not that high on here, but still fairly high enough, I’d say about 55%. My weakness is scumhunting. A large part of this is my overthinking. Many times I’ve talked myself out of scumreads or finding wolves because of this. No matter how much I’ve tried to alleviate this flaw it keeps biting me in the butt, so I figured I’d focus on my strength and try to keep strengthening that.
    - I think looking for inconsistencies and either passiveness or aggressiveness given the context. When I townread, it’s mainly gut sometimes as I can’t point to something specific, but I’d say I look for a player being disagreeable and/or a player who has his own thoughts and mind and doesn’t go with the crowd.
Look forward to your answers.
Hello fellows!
I like this way to get things going.

I’ve played mafia here for a while a long time ago and played werewolf/mafia here and there over the years.
I don’t think I’m introspective enough to know my real strengths and weaknesses, but I guess I’m kind of good at paying attention to detail when I have enough time and spotting inconsistencies, which I think is the best way to hunt mafia scum.
I get a townie vibe from people who participate and keeps things clear, without inconsistencies. Problem is a good mafia player will strive to achieve just that.
That’s what keeps things interesting for this game I guess.

Peace!
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Post Post #52 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:08 pm

Post by ItalianoVD »

In post 30, SJReaver wrote:We don't know anything about the set-up?

No idea how many mafia there are, if there are more than two factions? No idea what roles people might have?

This is weird. I don't like it.
Yeah SJ, it’s an open setup, meaning the roles are not known.
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Post Post #53 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:13 pm

Post by ItalianoVD »

In post 44, BananaCucho wrote:Here's some better questions guys:

1) What do you like most about cinderblocks

2) What is your favorite concrete color mix?

3) When was the first time a cinder block changed your life?

4) What is the capital of Assyria?

5) Do you believe the Church and gospel of Jesus Christ have been restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith?
1. They’re there

2. Other than gray? Psshhh.

3. When I licked it.

4. Tell us, tell us.

5. Nope
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Post Post #54 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:40 pm

Post by Frogsterking »

Heyyy page 3.

RVS VOTE: callforjudgement as a call for peace
Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.
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Post Post #55 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:50 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

In post 54, Frogsterking wrote:Heyyy page 3.

RVS VOTE: callforjudgement as a call for peace
OK, I don't like this. Not specifically because the RVS vote was on me, but because you made an RVS vote in the first place, and labelled it as one.

The whole point of RVS is to get the game started; initially we have no information, a little later we do have information because people have started posting. So the whole point is to do things that people can react to, to do things that let your alignment shine through, to try to pressure people into making mistakes.

If you post an RVS vote labelled as an RVS vote, then:
  • People will know that there's no read basis behind your vote, = you aren't trying to get your vote target voted out, = it doesn't apply any pressure;
  • You're making yourself hard to read, because the post could just as easily be made by any alignment;
  • In addition to muddying the waters about your alignment, you're neither forming reads nor pushing reads. So you aren't doing any of the three things a townie should be doing.
If you're town, this isn't good enough. We're at page 3, there's already alignment-indicative content being posted (and potentially alignment-indicative lack of content), and this should be fairly obvious to anyone reading the thread (I even pointed it out in my previous post!) Your post would be one thing if you planned to read the thread after making it, and immediately corrected the vote to something real. But you didn't say you were going to do that, and it's been 10 minutes since you posted it (easily enough time to read 54 posts). This isn't good enough. Please read through the thread and try to look for reads, don't try to continue RVS once it's already ended.
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Post Post #56 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:51 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

In post 44, BananaCucho wrote:Here's some better questions guys:
When you posted these, how were you expecting players to react to them?
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Post Post #57 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:01 pm

Post by GeorgeBailey »

Votecount 1.2

RCEnigma(3)
~ (3), (6), (3)

Not_Mafia(2)
~ (2), (3)
Nosferatu(2)
~ (6), (8)
ItalianoVD(1)
~ (8)
Gamma Emerald(1)
~ (8)
callforjudgement(2)
~ (1), (3)


Not Voting (2): Raya36(0), sordros(1)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-09-06 11:18:30)
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Post Post #58 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:13 pm

Post by BananaCucho »

In post 55, callforjudgement wrote:
In post 54, Frogsterking wrote:Heyyy page 3.

RVS VOTE: callforjudgement as a call for peace
OK, I don't like this. Not specifically because the RVS vote was on me, but because you made an RVS vote in the first place, and labelled it as one.

The whole point of RVS is to get the game started; initially we have no information, a little later we do have information because people have started posting. So the whole point is to do things that people can react to, to do things that let your alignment shine through, to try to pressure people into making mistakes.

If you post an RVS vote labelled as an RVS vote, then:
  • People will know that there's no read basis behind your vote, = you aren't trying to get your vote target voted out, = it doesn't apply any pressure;
  • You're making yourself hard to read, because the post could just as easily be made by any alignment;
  • In addition to muddying the waters about your alignment, you're neither forming reads nor pushing reads. So you aren't doing any of the three things a townie should be doing.
If you're town, this isn't good enough. We're at page 3, there's already alignment-indicative content being posted (and potentially alignment-indicative lack of content), and this should be fairly obvious to anyone reading the thread (I even pointed it out in my previous post!) Your post would be one thing if you planned to read the thread after making it, and immediately corrected the vote to something real. But you didn't say you were going to do that, and it's been 10 minutes since you posted it (easily enough time to read 54 posts). This isn't good enough. Please read through the thread and try to look for reads, don't try to continue RVS once it's already ended.
Bruh. That's a lot of words.
In post 56, callforjudgement wrote:
In post 44, BananaCucho wrote:Here's some better questions guys:
When you posted these, how were you expecting players to react to them?
There appears to be many UNCULTURED SWINE in this game - nobody so far has answered #4 correctly and I feel dated >:(
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Post Post #59 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:19 pm

Post by WaltertheDunce10 »

hmmm
COJ, you believe we are now out of rvs because of your two posts?
I agree with you on the crap post though by frog but that is because like you said no follow up or anything else.
No reason to label it as rvs agreed.
But your reaction seems disproportionate to the faux paus committed of continuing rvs.
Which italiano also continued with.
I think this is a tl on you for now COJ because you want better posting from people and to move on from rvs.
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Post Post #60 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:20 pm

Post by BananaCucho »

In post 59, WaltertheDunce10 wrote:hmmm
COJ, you believe we are now out of rvs because of your two posts?
I agree with you on the crap post though by frog but that is because like you said no follow up or anything else.
No reason to label it as rvs agreed.
But your reaction seems disproportionate to the faux paus committed of continuing rvs.
Which italiano also continued with.
I think this is a tl on you for now COJ because you want better posting from people and to move on from rvs.
You town lean fluff posts?
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Post Post #61 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:24 pm

Post by WaltertheDunce10 »

It is not concrete banana.
To me it is not the fact that they are fluff but rather the intent.
Move on from rvs and get better posts. I see this as someone who wants to gamesolve rather than joke around.
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Post Post #62 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:25 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

(PEDIT: re #)

Why do you care about whether we're cultured, as opposed to whether we're scum? This is a Mafia game, not a classics exam. (Also, #4 doesn't have a single correct answer; Assyria no longer exists and its capital changed over time.)

There's only one town-indicative reason I can think of to make a post like #, and if it were the actual reason, I'd expect you to have mentioned it.

As for your previous comment: I know I post a lot of text sometimes, but I'm trying to convince people to play in a more town-sided way. In the current metagame, town wins quite easily when townies put in effort, scum win quite easily when they don't. There are a lot of players out there (some of them in this game; hi Not_Mafia!) who are good players when they put their minds to it, but more commonly just end up passively floating through the game and eventually making everyone impossible to read. I therefore see trying to persuade people to get their brains into gear as important, as I'm unlikely to win otherwise.


PEDIT re #: I believe we're out of RVS as soon as anyone posts anything that can be scumhunted from. We were out of RVS
before
my two posts, not
because of
them. That's why I didn't cast a random vote, and why I don't expect any more random voting in this game.
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Post Post #63 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:27 pm

Post by BananaCucho »

In post 61, WaltertheDunce10 wrote:It is not concrete banana.
To me it is not the fact that they are fluff but rather the intent.
Move on from rvs and get better posts. I see this as someone who wants to gamesolve rather than joke around.
The intent? Mansplaining RVS? lol okay
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Post Post #64 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:29 pm

Post by BananaCucho »

In post 62, callforjudgement wrote:(PEDIT: re #)

Why do you care about whether we're cultured, as opposed to whether we're scum? This is a Mafia game, not a classics exam. (Also, #4 doesn't have a single correct answer; Assyria no longer exists and its capital changed over time.)

There's only one town-indicative reason I can think of to make a post like #, and if it were the actual reason, I'd expect you to have mentioned it.

As for your previous comment: I know I post a lot of text sometimes, but I'm trying to convince people to play in a more town-sided way. In the current metagame, town wins quite easily when townies put in effort, scum win quite easily when they don't. There are a lot of players out there (some of them in this game; hi Not_Mafia!) who are good players when they put their minds to it, but more commonly just end up passively floating through the game and eventually making everyone impossible to read. I therefore see trying to persuade people to get their brains into gear as important, as I'm unlikely to win otherwise.


PEDIT re #: I believe we're out of RVS as soon as anyone posts anything that can be scumhunted from. We were out of RVS
before
my two posts, not
because of
them. That's why I didn't cast a random vote, and why I don't expect any more random voting in this game.
bruh
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Post Post #65 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:34 pm

Post by WaltertheDunce10 »

K, that is a point I can respect on the rvs part. Thank you for making that clearer.
pedit one word statements are not helpful.
I was not mansplaining rvs or at least it was not intended.
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Post Post #66 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:36 pm

Post by BananaCucho »

In post 65, WaltertheDunce10 wrote:K, that is a point I can respect on the rvs part. Thank you for making that clearer.
pedit one word statements are not helpful.
I was not mansplaining rvs or at least it was not intended.
I didnt mean you lol! Sorry for the misinderstanding

What I meant is that call's essay about RVS seemed very mansplainy, so I dont see why anyone would town lean off of that post
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Post Post #67 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:39 pm

Post by WaltertheDunce10 »

K, that makes sense.
We are all good.
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Post Post #68 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:40 pm

Post by sordros »

In post 30, SJReaver wrote:We don't know anything about the set-up?

No idea how many mafia there are, if there are more than two factions? No idea what roles people might have?

This is weird. I don't like it.
In post 44, BananaCucho wrote:Here's some better questions guys:

1) What do you like most about cinderblocks

2) What is your favorite concrete color mix?

3) When was the first time a cinder block changed your life?

4) What is the capital of Assyria?

5) Do you believe the Church and gospel of Jesus Christ have been restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith?
1. They are solid.
2. Grayish
3. When it smashed my toes
4. Assur?
5. More input required to compute
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Post Post #69 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:41 pm

Post by SJReaver »

In post 46, RCEnigma wrote:By the end of page 3 I will have caught 1 scum.

Proceed.
This will be impressive if you are team green. Not so impressive if you are red team.
In post 57, GeorgeBailey wrote:
Votecount 1.2

RCEnigma(3)
~ (3), (6), (3)

Not_Mafia(2)
~ (2), (3)
Nosferatu(2)
~ (6), (8)
ItalianoVD(1)
~ (8)
Gamma Emerald(1)
~ (8)
callforjudgement(2)
~ (1), (3)


Not Voting (2): Raya36(0), sordros(1)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-09-06 11:18:30)
This vote count is a thing of beauty.
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Post Post #70 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:42 pm

Post by sordros »

In post 46, RCEnigma wrote:By the end of page 3 I will have caught 1 scum.

Proceed.
Awesome! Looking forward to that!
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Post Post #71 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:47 pm

Post by sordros »

In post 48, WaltertheDunce10 wrote:5.
No.
Here I developed some even better questions!
1. Is it okay to put rotting produce into an uncooked stead as a filler?
What is the cinderblock you would like most as a pet?
Are pineapples good on pizzas?
1. Don’t think so. But I guess it depends on the client
2. One that is curved around the edges
3. Most definitely yes!
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Post Post #72 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:48 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

sordros, are you reading the entire game? Or only the current page?
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Post Post #73 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:49 pm

Post by Raya36 »

Hey VOTE: Not Mafia
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Post Post #74 (ISO) » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:49 pm

Post by Raya36 »

In post 15, ItalianoVD wrote:I know a few players in the playerlist (SJReaver, Frogsterking, & Walter)

I don’t know the others, but this is for everyone...

1. What is your mafia experience?
2. What is your play style strength(s)? Weakness(es)? Do you know?
3. In your opinion, what is the most important thing to look for while scumhunting? While townreading?
I've played a decent amount for about 3 years on and off. I'm better at finding town than I am scum so I tend to town hunt instead. I get quite nervous as scum. I tend to tunnel people I think are scum. Motivation is the most important thing to look for in general in my opinion
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