Morning Tweet's Normal Review, August 2020

implosion · Post Post #0 (ISO) » Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:00 am

Morning Tweet wrote:Hello! I've /inned to mod a Normal Mini and I have a design ready to be looked at for balance.

I believe this PM is quoted in the design thread if I'm not mistaken? Here's all the relevant stuff I have created:

Spoiler: The Setup
13p setup

Town Weak Friendly Neighbour
Town Informed Gunsmith (“There is one Mafia Doctor”)
Town Doctor
Town Two-shot Commuter
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie

Mafia Doctor
Mafia One-shot Strongman
Mafia Goon

Spoiler: Design Logic
I want a weak friendly neighbour and gunsmith combo for the investigatives. I like the potential for mafia to have a player that does so well they knock out the friendly neighbour. I like Gunsmith so mafia can attempt to counterclaim the result with vigilante or some other claim, but still will most likely die to a guilty.

Another reason I chose Gunsmith was so there could be one member of the mafia team who gives a false negative so the Gunsmith can’t totally trust his results, but can mostly trust them. I specified to him that there is a single negative result, but I am unsure if this is necessary. I don’t want the gunsmith player to feel cheated by his results since the town already has some swing in the first PR, the worst thing i could see happening is the Friendly Neighbour killing themself -> Gunsmith gets a fake inno. I thought a way to offset this may be to give the Gunsmith extra information.

I am unsure of exactly how to offset the potential death of the weak friendly neighbour back onto an odd number of players. I chose a Doctor because they may get a save which would fix it to odds.

In the event a follow the cop were attempted, even though I’m guessing that’s unlikely, I gave the mafia a one-shot strongman player. It’s mostly just insurance that if an investigative is outted early with the doctor still alive, the mafia can choose to get rid of that player.

I rounded out the town PRs with a two-shot commuter. I’m unsure what a commuters power level is, but I wanted a role that could be quite good in the hands of a skilled player but not as helpful otherwise. It is also a claim that would be likely believed (?) as I dont usually hear Commuter used as a fakeclaim. If any role needs to be drastically changed (such as if the town is too weak which I'm wondering), I would probably change this to a stronger role.

EDIT: It just occurred to me that the Gunsmith is gonna distrust the doctor claim cause he knows theres a scum doctor. That was not intentional so I may have to rethink that.

I'm getting the feeling the setup is town sided because, while I think he's pretty powerful, the weak friendly neighbour has the potential to throw away a ton of towns power if he isnt careful.

If town is too weak like Im guessing I would first like to change the Commuter into a stronger role. Beyond that Im unsure

Spoiler: Role PMs
VANILLA TOWNIEWelcome, Player! You are a
Vanilla Townie
.

You possess no special abilities of your own, aside from your voice and your vote.

You are aligned with the
Town
. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

TOWN WEAK FRIENDLY NEIGHBOURWelcome, Player! You are a
Town Weak Friendly Neighbour
.

Each night, you may target a player. At the end of the night, they will be informed that you are aligned with the town. Furthermore, if you target a non-town-aligned player with this ability, you will die.

You are aligned with the
Town
. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

TOWN INFORMED GUNSMITHWelcome, Player! You are a
Town Informed Gunsmith
.

Each night, you may target a player to learn whether or not they have a gun in their possession.

(All mafia roles have guns except Doctor and Traitor. Additionally, the following town roles have guns: Cop, Vigilante, Gunsmith, Role Cop, Vanilla Cop, Vengeful, Detective, Neapolitan, Backup of any role with a gun, and Jack-of-All-Trades where any component role has a gun.)

You know additional information pertaining to the setup: There is one Mafia Doctor present in the game.

You are aligned with the
Town
. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

TOWN DOCTORWelcome, Player! You are a
Town Doctor
.

Each night, you may target a player to protect them from one kill attempt that night.

You are aligned with the
Town
. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

TOWN TWO-SHOT COMMUTERWelcome, Player! You are a
Town Two-shot Commuter
.

Twice during the game at night, you may choose to commute, causing any actions targeting you to fail.

You are aligned with the
Town
. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

MAFIA GOONWelcome, Player! You are a
Mafia Goon
.

Your partners are Player1,
Mafia Doctor
, and Player2,
Mafia One-shot Strongman
. You may privately speak with them at any time here.

You and your partners share a factional kill. At night, you may designate a player who will perform the kill and on what target. You may not have a mafia member perform a kill and use another action at the same time.

You are aligned with the
Mafia
. You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

MAFIA DOCTORWelcome, Player! You are a
Mafia Doctor
.

Your partners are Player1,
Mafia Goon
, and Player2,
Mafia One-shot Strongman
. You may privately speak with them at any time here.

Each night, you may target a player to protect them from one kill attempt that night.

You and your partners share a factional kill. At night, you may designate a player who will perform the kill and on what target. You may not have a mafia member perform a kill and use another action at the same time.

You are aligned with the
Mafia
. You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

MAFIA ONE-SHOT STRONGMANWelcome, Player! You are a
Mafia One-shot Strongman
.

Your partners are Player1,
Mafia Goon
, and Player2,
Mafia Doctor
. You may privately speak with them at any time here.

Once per game while performing a kill, you may designate your kill as a Strongman kill, preventing your kill from being blocked by any means.

You and your partners share a factional kill. At night, you may designate a player who will perform the kill and on what target. You may not have a mafia member perform a kill and use another action at the same time.

You are aligned with the
Mafia
. You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Spoiler: Opening Post
-= Mini Normal #### | So Many Bats! =-

image here

Modded by: Morning Tweet
Backup Mod: X
Reviewed by: X

Player List

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.

(spoiler=Shot Down)(/spoiler)(spoiler=Still Flapping About)(/spoiler)(spoiler=Vote Counts)(/spoiler)

Spoiler: Rules
-= The Rules =-
rules stolen and adapted from SirCakes and Dannflor

General Rules

1. Obey all site rules, which can be found here.
2. Do not, under any circumstances, quote your role PMs or any other PMs sent by the moderator. Paraphrasing is okay.
3. Do not contact other players to discuss the game outside of the game thread. This includes both PMs and offsite communication.
4. Play to win this game, not your future games.
5. Do not use tiny text, cryptography, invisible text, or anything of the sort. Everything you post should be public info.
6. Do not use provable randomness. This includes dice tags.
7. Do not impersonate the moderator.
This
is my mod colour. Don’t use it.
8. Once you have died, you lose the ability to post. Do not make a “bah” post.
9. When in doubt about the rules, do not hesitate to ask me for clarification.
Voting

1. All votes and unvotes must be put in bold or with VOTE: tags. Vote tags are highly prefered.
2. Votes made in spoilers will not be counted.
3. Abbreviations and nicknames in votes are acceptable, as long as I can clearly tell who you are referencing.
4. When a player reaches a majority of votes, votes are freezed and that player is eliminated. All players may continue to post up until the thread is locked.
5. Players may vote to end the phase without an elimination. Do this by voting for a “No Elimination” with vote or bold tags.
6. The first day phase will have a 10 day deadline. Subsequent day phases will last up to 7 days. Night phases will last for 48 hours.
Activity

1. You are expected to make at least one game-relevant post every 48 hours. Players who go 48 hours without posting will be prodded.
2. If you are prodded, you have 24 hours to post in-thread. Prod dodges do not count. If you do not respond within 24 hours, you will be replaced. Additionally, if you accumulate more than 3 prods, I will force replace you.
3. If you are going to be V/LA, please announce it in thread or PM me. Players on V/LA are exempt from the prod rules for the duration of their V/LA.
Setup Specific

1. Scum have daytalk.
2. Scum do not have multi-tasking.
3. At least one player will receive the following role PM:
(spoiler=Sample Role PM)
VANILLA TOWNIEWelcome, Player! You are a
Vanilla Townie
.

You possess no special abilities of your own, aside from your voice and your vote.

You are aligned with the
Town
. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.
(/spoiler)

(edited as more balancing notes pop up in my head)

implosion · Post Post #1 (ISO) » Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:01 am

Primary: mastina
Secondary: northsidegal

northsidegal · Post Post #2 (ISO) » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:34 am

hello hello

Morning Tweet · Post Post #3 (ISO) » Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:20 am

Hi!! I came up with this and then realized the many nightmares the setup has approximately half an hour later

For instance, I believe I under gauged the amount of power town is supposed to have. I believe the rule was something like "4 decent PRs", but I somehow managed to give every PR drawback

The Weak FN can accidentally kill himself (although it lets him play like an investigative)
The gunsmith has one false innocent (Although I made him aware of it)
The doctor might be in trouble because the gunsmith knows theres a mafia doctor (This I did not realize when I made it)
and 2-shot commuter isnt a very good role, will probably have to swap that one out

>.<

I generally like setups where PRs can be misused if they do not play well (FN has chance to misplay, Gunsmith has to use his judgment since he can only be mostly sure of his innos, commuter has to actively use his ability), but I might have hurt town a bit too much here

Morning Tweet · Post Post #4 (ISO) » Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:54 am

Ah, if its terribly scumsided, I could see changing the mafia doctor to a goon, and removing the gunsmiths information.

northsidegal · Post Post #5 (ISO) » Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:58 pm

so on first glance i don't think it's terribly scumsided although i think some of the concerns you just mentioned might be kinda valid, for instance the gunsmith taking the real doctor as a mafia doctor (although this might arguably be an example of a good red herring)

i like a lot of your thinking in your design logic (and i appreciate you including that a lot – i always end up asking people for it anyways because it helps me know what direction to try to take the setup in). if you want a gunsmith / maf doc combo, i think having the gunsmith be informed of this is a pretty good idea. weak friendly neighbor is a cool role, although personally i consider the "weak" part as less of a downside than you seem to – you say that if one scum is doing well enough that they essentially disable the friendly neighbor, but i think that in a lot of scenarios (at least with a halfway competent FN), that really just means a guilty on that scum member. again, kind of depends on whether a newbie or more experienced player is the WFN, but still

i think the setup is at its weakest with the strongman and the 2-shot commuter, although it being the relative weakest (i.e. compared to the rest of the setup) doesn't mean that it's bad

honestly i think that it's probably passable as is? of course, the evil NRG bureaucrat in me wants to tweak it around and not just pass it as is, but i honestly don't think it's really necessary. of course, if you'd like to talk it through a bit more and if you feel like you might want to change your mind on it i'm open to hearing different ideas, but i

think

that it's passable as is. would like to hear mastina's opinion as well.

northsidegal · Post Post #6 (ISO) » Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:03 pm

realized that i didn't talk too much about the actual balance in that post except to say that it's passable as is. i do think that it's probably on the scumsided end of things given how much the mafia doctor nerfs the power of the gunsmith as well as the swing potential with the WFN – a good or even just halfway decent scumteam could sweep an unlucky town, so if it's unbalanced it's probably in that direction

another thing i just realized is that this setup has the rare honor of having a potential interaction between a strongman and a commuter (which the commuter wins). not really a problem, although i imagine that some newer players or people less familiar with normal rules might get confused / annoyed at that, if it does end up happening.

also a quick check over your role PMs and rules and they seemed fine

northsidegal · Post Post #7 (ISO) » Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:04 pm

In post 5, northsidegal wrote:so on first glance i don't think it's terribly scumsided

In post 6, northsidegal wrote:realized that i didn't talk too much about the actual balance in that post except to say that it's passable as is. i do think that it's probably on the scumsided end of things

can you tell that i'm tired

Morning Tweet · Post Post #8 (ISO) » Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:49 pm

Morning Tweet wrote:I'm getting the feeling the setup is town sided because, while I think he's pretty powerful, the weak friendly neighbour has the potential to throw away a ton of towns power if he isnt careful.

**scumsided

In post 5, northsidegal wrote:i like a lot of your thinking in your design logic (and i appreciate you including that a lot – i always end up asking people for it anyways because it helps me know what direction to try to take the setup in). if you want a gunsmith / maf doc combo, i think having the gunsmith be informed of this is a pretty good idea. weak friendly neighbor is a cool role, although personally i consider the "weak" part as less of a downside than you seem to – you say that if one scum is doing well enough that they essentially disable the friendly neighbor, but i think that in a lot of scenarios (at least with a halfway competent FN), that really just means a guilty on that scum member. again, kind of depends on whether a newbie or more experienced player is the WFN, but still

thank you! I'm glad having the gunsmith aware there's an incorrect result was a decent idea, I don't like the idea of fake results much but I also want the investigative to have to think about his results a little

Ah, I forgot that if the FN is careful they'll make sure town knows who they visited. so that's good then!

In post 5, northsidegal wrote:i think the setup is at its weakest with the strongman and the 2-shot commuter, although it being the relative weakest (i.e. compared to the rest of the setup) doesn't mean that it's bad

I'm unsure how to prevent the investigatives from being invincible after they claim while the doctor is alive. There are already lot of nerfs to town power as it is, so maybe I could give scum something weaker to shut down follow the gunsmith. Would an X-shot roleblocker of some kind be more forgiving for town?

In post 5, northsidegal wrote:honestly i think that it's probably passable as is? of course, the evil NRG bureaucrat in me wants to tweak it around and not just pass it as is, but i honestly don't think it's really necessary. of course, if you'd like to talk it through a bit more and if you feel like you might want to change your mind on it i'm open to hearing different ideas, but i
think
that it's passable as is. would like to hear mastina's opinion as well.

I'm down to tweak it if you like! Anything to make it more fair

I'm mostly attached to the weak fn, the gunsmith/mafi doctor combo, and having a town protective.

I forget if the strongman/commuter interaction was intentional-- i was tired. i like the idea of commuter more than bulletproof since it's an active ability, and more than PGO cause that'd throw the swing out of control

Oh, also I have a question: If the Weak Friendly Neighbour is killed by visiting a mafia-aligned player, can the doctor save them, or is the death unpreventable?

Morning Tweet · Post Post #9 (ISO) » Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:53 pm

In post 6, northsidegal wrote:realized that i didn't talk too much about the actual balance in that post except to say that it's passable as is. i do think that it's probably on the scumsided end of things given how much the mafia doctor nerfs the power of the gunsmith as well as the swing potential with the WFN – a good or even just halfway decent scumteam could sweep an unlucky town, so if it's unbalanced it's probably in that direction

another thing i just realized is that this setup has the rare honor of having a potential interaction between a strongman and a commuter (which the commuter wins). not really a problem, although i imagine that some newer players or people less familiar with normal rules might get confused / annoyed at that, if it does end up happening.

also a quick check over your role PMs and rules and they seemed fine

sweet!

It seems like I could bump the strongman to something weaker (like a JK or alien, maybe 2-3 shot so they can prevent follow the gunsmith but cannot spam roleblocks without a known target) or I could buff the commuter (Not sure what to. I don't want a killer or an investigative, and I already have a protective)

ISO · Post Post #10 (ISO) » Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:19 am

In post 5, northsidegal wrote:so on first glance i don't think it's terribly scumsided although i think some of the concerns you just mentioned might be kinda valid, for instance the gunsmith taking the real doctor as a mafia doctor (although this might arguably be an example of a good red herring)

i like a lot of your thinking in your design logic (and i appreciate you including that a lot – i always end up asking people for it anyways because it helps me know what direction to try to take the setup in). if you want a gunsmith / maf doc combo, i think having the gunsmith be informed of this is a pretty good idea. weak friendly neighbor is a cool role, although personally i consider the "weak" part as less of a downside than you seem to – you say that if one scum is doing well enough that they essentially disable the friendly neighbor, but i think that in a lot of scenarios (at least with a halfway competent FN), that really just means a guilty on that scum member. again, kind of depends on whether a newbie or more experienced player is the WFN, but still

i think the setup is at its weakest with the strongman and the 2-shot commuter, although it being the relative weakest (i.e. compared to the rest of the setup) doesn't mean that it's bad

honestly i think that it's probably passable as is? of course, the evil NRG bureaucrat in me wants to tweak it around and not just pass it as is, but i honestly don't think it's really necessary. of course, if you'd like to talk it through a bit more and if you feel like you might want to change your mind on it i'm open to hearing different ideas, but i
think
that it's passable as is. would like to hear mastina's opinion as well.

Honestly, my thoughts mirror nsg's here. I love your design logic, don't think the setup is massively scumsided, but I do understand the rather valid concern involving the town doctor and the informed gunsmith about a mafia doctor. I'm not as concerned about a weak friendly neighbor, that's an inherent double-edged sword built into the role where it is a considerably strong role with a known drawback to it, and is not a role that takes considerable knowledge/experience/skill to pilot. (Just about any given player given that role can have an idea on how to use it competently. Well-used, the role could snowball to victory off of just surviving and clearing itself and its target, but also gives utility for breadcrumbing a guilty. Poorly used, and it can create a false-innocent* or with bad breadcrumbing, a false-guilty. The latter is much less likely than the former.)

I do think that, thanks to the mafia doctor and the town doctor and the informed gunsmith and the scum 1x strongman, the game

is

slightly scumsided, but as nsg said, within the passable margin of error. (Ideal balance is 50-50. There's a 10% margin of acceptable deviation from a perfect 50-50, where a game can be up to 60-40 town-scum or 60-40 scum-town, and I'd place this at somewhere in the 58-60% scum margin, passable but still scumsided.)

If the setup were to be tweaked, the tweaks would need to be

very very minor

, minuscule ones, because the setup is beautiful, the setup is elegant, the setup is nice, is wonderful, and not atrociously balanced. But I am currently too tired to make any suggestions on any tweak of this nature, if it's even desired. (Soonest I'd be able to do this, if you want it, is Sunday.)

Because as I said above, it's passable in my opinion as-is. Slightly scumsided, scumsided enough to

almost

be outside the acceptable margin of balance, but to just be inside the region. So I'd mostly defer the judgement to the setup designer/mod, if they're okay with the running the setup knowing that it's slightly scumsided. If they are, if you are, then it's fine, but if you're not quite happy with it as it is, then yeah, needs some form of very minor tweak/adjustment.

In post 8, Morning Tweet wrote:Oh, also I have a question: If the Weak Friendly Neighbour is killed by visiting a mafia-aligned player, can the doctor save them, or is the death unpreventable?

*This is the source of the aforementioned improbable, but not impossible, false-innocent, because the answer is yes, a doctor can save a Weak role visiting a scum player.

northsidegal · Post Post #11 (ISO) » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:30 am

In post 10, mastina wrote:
In post 8, Morning Tweet wrote:Oh, also I have a question: If the Weak Friendly Neighbour is killed by visiting a mafia-aligned player, can the doctor save them, or is the death unpreventable?
*This is the source of the aforementioned improbable, but not impossible, false-innocent, because the answer is yes, a doctor can save a Weak role visiting a scum player.

the wiki actually says otherwise

Morning Tweet · Post Post #12 (ISO) » Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:16 am

In post 10, mastina wrote:If the setup were to be tweaked, the tweaks would need to be
very very minor
, minuscule ones, because the setup is beautiful, the setup is elegant, the setup is nice, is wonderful, and not atrociously balanced. But I am currently too tired to make any suggestions on any tweak of this nature, if it's even desired. (Soonest I'd be able to do this, if you want it, is Sunday.)

Lol sweet ty

In post 10, mastina wrote:Because as I said above, it's passable in my opinion as-is. Slightly scumsided, scumsided enough to
almost
be outside the acceptable margin of balance, but to just be inside the region. So I'd mostly defer the judgement to the setup designer/mod, if they're okay with the running the setup knowing that it's slightly scumsided. If they are, if you are, then it's fine, but if you're not quite happy with it as it is, then yeah, needs some form of very minor tweak/adjustment.

I would like to tweak it a bit to make it more balanced, because I don't want scum to win and have the players be like "ya but it was scumsided tho" and have that detract from the scumteam's victory.

Sunday or whenever you're free is cool!

ISO · Post Post #13 (ISO) » Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:26 pm

In post 11, northsidegal wrote:the wiki actually says otherwise

I'm pretty sure the wiki's wrong on that, though, and that the correct interaction of when a Weak role visits nontown and is protected by a doctor is at least

meant

to be that the doctor saves them, though I suppose it would depend on the wording of the doctor PM. (The doctor's PM specifying "one attempt on their life" or something to that effect should still save the Weak player, because the Weak's visit to nontown would be an attempt on their life; the doctor's PM specifying "one nightkill" or something to that effect shouldn't still save the Weak player since the Weak player wasn't targeted by a nightkill.)

Might be something to get an executive call from implosion on. I've always been under the impression that, traditionally, one of the established known weaknesses of the, well, Weak modifier, is that you could get false innocents by visiting scum and being saved, that the design intent of the modifier was for it to have that built-in potential for the unlikely, but still theoretically possible, false innocent, just as the role can produce a false guilty by being nightkilled and/or vigged.

But that aside.

For balance tweaks. There's multiple options.
-Increase the power of existing town. Options include:
*Turning the commuter into a full commuter (effectively making them, in practice, an ungated town bulletproof) (other roles are already as strong as they can get, so the only role which could get stronger is the gated commuter)
*Turning the town doctor into a different town protective, such as rolestopper or babysitter, to avoid the informed gunsmith from running into that issue
*Overlapping with the below, give an existing role some extras.

-Decrease the power of existing scum. Only option here is removing the 1x strongman.

-Introduce extra power to the town. Either give the town's existing roles something extra (e.g. the town doctor being informed scum have a 1x strongman, as an example), or introduce an entirely new, but minor, extra role for the town. Something that gives some tangible benefit, but is not a huge boon.
The stereotypical example is a Voyeur--can't get a hard guilty/innocent, and whose main purpose is to validate existing claims.
Something like a Fruit Vendor or Neighborizer would be other options, though they probably don't add much (aside from helping the Weak Friendly Neighbor hide better).

Basically, roles that don't swing the balance the other way.

These are the options that come to my mind immediately.

I'd think removing the strongman wouldn't be the best, and buffing the commuter probably wouldn't be the best, so the options there would be to change the town doctor into another protective or to add another minor town role. Would like nsg's feedback there as well tho.

Morning Tweet · Post Post #14 (ISO) » Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:59 am

without any further direction I think I'd have the Weak person not die, since I'm wording the doctors role PM as: "protect them from one kill attempt that night" so I would think that counts.

That being said!! I forgot rolestopper is a thing. I do not want the gunsmith to mistakenly suspect the town doctor, that would just be really annoying for them.

Town Weak Friendly Neighbour
Town Informed Gunsmith (“There is one Mafia Doctor”)
Town [Informed] Rolestopper ["There is one Mafia Strongman"] --information part only necessary if town is still underpowered with this setup
Town Two-shot Commuter
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie

Mafia Doctor
Mafia One-shot Strongman
Mafia Goon

I suppose the weak friendly neighbour can still get faked results though, just from their target being rolestopped instead of being healed. Maybe town isn't super better off but it's a start

I like your idea of informing the rolestopper of their counter, just like I did with the gunsmith. It's very symmetrical. Mafia have direct counters to the PRs, but the PRs aren't going to be blindsided by the fake inno and 1-time failure to protect. And mafia do not know they know of course

Do you think the setup is more balanced with or without the rolestopper knowing about the strongman's existence?

Spoiler: ROLE PMS

ISO · Post Post #15 (ISO) » Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:13 am

In post 14, Morning Tweet wrote:Do you think the setup is more balanced with or without the rolestopper knowing about the strongman's existence?

I'd love to have nsg's thoughts on that, but imo that actually swings things in the other direction, towards townsided. Rolestopper and not doctor = no longer contradicts with the gunsmith's info. Info of their own = corroborates the gunsmith's info, and limits the scum. Having both gives the town virtually all of the info in the game while letting them have strong PRs; having only one of the two would be better overall.

implosion · Post Post #16 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:05 am

Pinging this!

Morning Tweet · Post Post #17 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:25 am

hia

I am good with running the original setup with the doctor swapped out for rolestopper, if you think that's reasonably balanced (´･ω･`)

implosion · Post Post #18 (ISO) » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:22 am

Mostly would like to know if this is like, juuust there or if it'll take another iteration or two bc i'm launching NoPowerOverMe's game shortly and either this game or gypyx's will be next based on if this one is ready.

northsidegal · Post Post #19 (ISO) » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:04 pm

sorry, i can take a look tomorrow

ISO · Post Post #20 (ISO) » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:32 pm

In post 17, Morning Tweet wrote:I am good with running the original setup with the doctor swapped out for rolestopper, if you think that's reasonably balanced (´･ω･`)

I do!

implosion · Post Post #21 (ISO) » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:52 am

I'll consider that passed then and put this in signups.

If you want to tweak it before it fills, feel free to, just make sure whatever version of it gets launched is approved!

Morning Tweet · Post Post #22 (ISO) » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:19 pm

Sounds good, thanks!

ISO · Post Post #23 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:23 pm

Technically, should list the rolestopper role, but yes, the setup is good to me.

Morning Tweet · Post Post #24 (ISO) » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:16 am

Here's the post from my mod PT. All the role PMs should be the same except rolestopper which is added in for doctor now

In post 7, Morning Tweet wrote:
Spoiler: The Setup
13p setup

Town Weak Friendly Neighbour
Town Informed Gunsmith (“There is one Mafia Doctor”)
Town Rolestopper
Town Two-shot Commuter
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie

Mafia Doctor
Mafia One-shot Strongman
Mafia Goon

Spoiler: Unnamed Role PMs
VANILLA TOWNIE
Welcome, Player! You are a
Vanilla Townie
.

Aside from your voice and your vote, you possess no special abilities of your own.

You are aligned with the
Town
. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.[/area]

TOWN WEAK FRIENDLY NEIGHBOUR
Welcome, Player! You are a
Town Weak Friendly Neighbour
.

Each night, you may target a player. At the end of the night, they will be informed that you are aligned with the town. Furthermore, if you target a non-town-aligned player with this ability, you will die.

You are aligned with the
Town
. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.[/area]

TOWN INFORMED GUNSMITH
Welcome, Player! You are a
Town Informed Gunsmith
.

Each night, you may target a player to learn whether or not they have a gun in their possession.

(All mafia roles have guns except Doctor and Traitor. Additionally, the following town roles have guns: Cop, Vigilante, Gunsmith, Role Cop, Vanilla Cop, Vengeful, Detective, Neapolitan, Backup of any role with a gun, and Jack-of-All-Trades where any component role has a gun.)

You know additional information pertaining to the setup: There is one Mafia Doctor present in the game.

You are aligned with the
Town
. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.[/area]

TOWN ROLESTOPPER
Welcome, Player! You are a
Town Rolestopper
.

Each night, you may target a player. All abilities targetting that player on this night will be blocked.

You are aligned with the
Town
. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.[/area]

TOWN TWO-SHOT COMMUTER
Welcome, Player! You are a
Town Two-shot Commuter
.

Twice during the game at night, you may choose to commute, causing all actions targeting you to fail.

You are aligned with the
Town
. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.[/area]

MAFIA GOON
Welcome, Player! You are a
Mafia Goon
.

Your partners are Player1,
Mafia Doctor
, and Player2,
Mafia One-shot Strongman
. You may speak with them privately and at any time here.

You and your partners share a factional kill. At night, you may designate a mafia player to perform the kill on a chosen player. You may not have a mafia member perform a kill and use another action at the same time.

You are aligned with the
Mafia
. You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.[/area]

MAFIA DOCTOR
Welcome, Player! You are a
Mafia Doctor
.

Your partners are Player1,
Mafia Goon
, and Player2,
Mafia One-shot Strongman
. You may speak with them privately and at any time here.

Each night, you may target a player to protect them from one kill attempt that night.

You and your partners share a factional kill. At night, you may designate a mafia player to perform the kill on a chosen player. You may not have a mafia member perform a kill and use another action at the same time.

You are aligned with the
Mafia
. You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.[/area]

MAFIA ONE-SHOT STRONGMAN
Welcome, Player! You are a
Mafia One-shot Strongman
.

Your partners are Player1,
Mafia Goon
, and Player2,
Mafia Doctor
. You may speak with them privately and at any time here.

Once per game while performing a kill, you may designate your kill as a Strongman kill, preventing it from being blocked by any means.

You and your partners share a factional kill. At night, you may designate a mafia player to perform the kill on a chosen player. You may not have a mafia member perform a kill and use another action at the same time.

You are aligned with the
Mafia
. You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is located here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.[/area]