Mini Theme 2164: Betrayal Mafia I (Game over!)

[Gamma Emerald]

i actually dont check playerlists before replacing into games.

You should NOT be doing this if you intend to maintain a blacklist. The use of a blacklist carries the responsibility to maintain it yourself. I recall in one game RadiantCowbells replaced in when Mathblade, whom he had blacklisted, was already in it. That caused a lot of drama that could have been avoided with a little vigilance.

Though it seems your entire personality is built around being ignorant, with how you refused to read the OP for so long.

[Gamma Emerald]

Subject: Stop getting banned

- If you replace out of a game because you do not like your alignment, this is you tactically replacing out. This is not playing mafia to win, this is tactically replacing out of a game. This is against the rules.

This is where I’m getting the connection between tactical replace-outs and playing to win.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Subject: Stop getting banned

- If you replace out of a game because you do not like your alignment, this is you tactically replacing out. This is not playing mafia to win, this is tactically replacing out of a game. This is against the rules.

This is where I’m getting the connection between tactical replace-outs and playing to win.

This is talking about replacing out upon receiving your alignment, not playing 3 full days and nights.

[PenguinPower]

I’m gonna mostly hold my tongue here, but you replaced into this game knowing I was in it and that I don’t think you’re a mechsolving wizard. Not sure what you expected from me when you tried to posit a mechsolve.

i actually dont check playerlists before replacing into games. Just because I'm not a "mechsolving wizard" doesnt mean i cant make valid points. Not sure what you were looking for from a mechsolve but it sounds more like you just didnt want one at all and/or just don't like me on a personal level and are just using this as an excuse to be an asshole to me. You never offered any solutions only complained so it was also on top of everything just straight up annoying.

I think you need to do some serious self-reflection on how you play this game because it's not conducive to a collaborative approach at all. I don't know you on a personal level so you don't need to play the victim there.

[Gamma Emerald]

I second PP’s comment towards Dk
It doesn’t matter how right you were, people won’t listen to you if you’re a dick about it. RadiantCowbells is an excellent example of that.

[DkKoba]

thats fine but just admit youre not actually trying to win at that point. theres nothing more annoying than a person who makes complaints and offers 0 solutions

[PenguinPower]

Just because I play differently than you doesn't mean I'm not playing to win.

[DkKoba]

i know my approach is aggressive and ive been knocking it down and adjusting it at a game by game basis and its a work in progress but to pretend like im the only one who has faults in every game ever is reductive.

[PenguinPower]

I don't think anyone said you were the only one who has faults.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Dk you played a good game and you'll find it only gets better with more friendliness. Playing to win also means talking to people so they'll listen. You don't solve a game by knowing the answer, you solve it by bringing everyone along for the ride

[DkKoba]

Dk you played a good game and you'll find it only gets better with more friendliness. Playing to win also means talking to people so they'll listen. You don't solve a game by knowing the answer, you solve it by bringing everyone along for the ride

thanks. i feel bad that i fos'd u i was paranoid of literally everyone who was towny bc i was looking for "the voice". i was i guess frustrated to not be trusted with the info i had and the fact i didnt trust the one person who was actually also trying to mechsolve didnt help(cm1).

im working on the friendliness thing, im a bit prideful in how i approach things and i expect people to at least in good faith dissect WHY i might be wrong with something rather than just dismiss me which was really wearing on me ): i was happy to play with u tho, you were a big reason for the town win overall (:

[Bingle]

Bungle how do you rate Dk’s mech play attempts

Honestly didn't pay enough attention to the mech side of things to be able to judge after I died. From what little I did read, it seemed they weren't the best at explaining their solve, but that the premises behind it were fairly sturdy and that they probably would have been a bit more effective if they had someone to play peacemaker and cut down the frustration.

We mostly griped about Noraaslot being townread, sircakez slot not being townread, and everyone limming F&G after I made it a point to make swinging the elimination onto them instead of me nonviable.

FWIW, I don't think ABR replaced out because he was scum or as a tactical move. I think that ABR replaced out because he felt the game was unfairly stacked against him and he was genuinely not having fun. Personally, I would have seen the game through, but I don't really have an issue with people replacing out, even of bad positions, if they're genuinely that salty about the game. I think forcing yourself to stay in and risking your anger making the thread toxic. It's pretty much the exact same thing as happened with LLD and Krazy in AliPine, except they forced themselves to stay in a game that was pissing them the hell off and the game as a whole suffered for it. I don't think forcing yourself to stay in a game you would otherwise replace out of because you're worried it might be seen as tactical is any better for site culture than replacing out as scum because you think you're going to lose/don't like playing as scum/insert other bullshit excuse here.

@DK, if you're trying to work on increasing your charisma in games, I'd suggest two courses of action. Find someone you like/get along with well and hydra with them so they can act as a thread buffer and a venting buddy if you get frustrated, or try to curate games so that there's a critical mass of people you get along with. I've seen both choices chill people out and make them enjoy the game a lot more, which in turn makes it much easier for them to have a friendlier thread presence. I'd offer to sign up for games with you, but I'm being kinda selective at the moment based on busyness IRL and the potential of a long term mafia commitment.

Also, I'm the only one who is allowed to have faults. Fuck all of you, I'm the protagonist in this here story.

[72offsuit]

how are you so scummy every game its wild

lol, interesting. I always read noraa as town

[JohnnyFarrar]

how are you so scummy every game its wild

lol, interesting. I always read noraa as town

I do this also and must stop

[72offsuit]

Some comments on the game:

This was the first game I've ever designed. Like the game it's based on, I think it's very swingy, but the intent was to create a mafia game that was fun/new/cool, and I hope that I achieved that. I apologize if the game didn't feel balanced or felt unfair in design, that was not my intent. Unfortunately I think with a setup like this, with so many variables, true balance may not really be achievable.

I'm definitely open to

constructive

criticism - I'd like to run more of these at some point in the future, and I am woefully inexperienced at setup balance. Some of the things that happened in this game I also didn't foresee, like people being confirmable on whether or not they had destroyed a lab, and that (among other things I didn't foresee) probably led to the game being more townsided than I had intended. Feedback is much appreciated.

Sounds like an awesome setup!
I wish I had been here for the night actions!
Love the flavour of the items and the function matched with the flavour.

As a board game enthusiast I loved the theme of the game, I think it shone though.
I wonder if perhaps keeping stats hidden is an option to make it less town sided?
Town has a lot of info in this setup, usually town is in the uninformed majority, so it fits with that theme.

[72offsuit]

I thought it was really unique and super flavored!
I think scum definitely should be able to destroy labs to avoid the situation this game ran into
And they need more night power

+1 to this

[PenguinPower]

Fuck all of you, I'm the protagonist in this here story.

<3

[72offsuit]

BETRAYAL SQUAD BETRAYAL SQUAD
This setup was an appropriate level of spicy. And given it is a Lilith setup that means it was very, very spicy.

Thank you so much for modding!

+1

Thanks for modding Lilith

And happy cakeday theworst

[72offsuit]

sorry nora

u did really play pro scun wrt mechs and i wanted rly badly to just policy u and i will maintain that

but i really did get hard distracted by ur slot and was missing the bigger picture.

I might be just guessing here, but i think a lot of people dislike mechsolving and that it takes the fun out of the game (to a point)

[72offsuit]

i actually dont check playerlists before replacing into games.

You should NOT be doing this if you intend to maintain a blacklist. The use of a blacklist carries the responsibility to maintain it yourself. I recall in one game RadiantCowbells replaced in when Mathblade, whom he had blacklisted, was already in it. That caused a lot of drama that could have been avoided with a little vigilance.

Though it seems your entire personality is built around being ignorant, with how you refused to read the OP for so long.

+1

[CreativeMod1]

Hello all you wonderful people!!!

So first off, GG everyone!

Lilith, it was a great concept and I love the idea of everything. I do agree that it was a little townsided but I think there's ways in which it can be balanced and I really hope you decide to run this again, if you do then I'm already a pre-in (or I'd love to help moderate it, I'm a massive fan of the game and have some ideas that could help balance things)
I think the biggest balancing issue does come with the night deaths and lack thereof, I think having 1 more scum here and giving them a little more power to do damage could've helped them. 1 idea I think should be explored if you run this again is having a haunt with a monster that scum controls, this can be something that has a higher and unknown strength which can cause more damage, I'd suggest this rather than the anon attack mechanic.
I loved the idea of exploring the house and finding rooms and I loved the use of items. I also loved how each item and career was balanced to make it so that it's useful for both good and evil (although I'd possibly make the careers more specialised towards good/evil if you run this again, it can give evil a bit more power to help them) Also, idk if I got super lucky but I think there was too many items compared to events.
I think the last thing I'd suggest is trying to find a way around leashing people to doing certain actions as this makes things much harder for scum.

As for everything else that's being said by the players. Personally I enjoyed this game.

DK, I'm glad that you're taking on board feedback, I do agree that whilst your mechsolve was good, I agree that the way you went about things wasn't the best. I know I joked about calling you a dictator and I think that was me venting my frustrations. I knew you were a good player but I think it's important to take a step back and let other players contribute towards things.
Part of the reason why I gunned for F&G that day (partially because I thought they could be scum) but also because I was worried that if me/Gamma had died and F&G was scum you would've have ever elim'd them so I wanted to take that possibility off the board

[Albert B. Rampage]

1 idea I think should be explored if you run this again is having a haunt with a monster that scum controls, this can be something that has a higher and unknown strength which can cause more damage, I'd suggest this rather than the anon attack mechanic.

Hmm if there's no guaranteed lethal, then guaranteed damage is a must. The die rolling a 0 cannot be possible. The dice should be like 2-4 for scum. Don't forget town can roll 0-2 and stop some damage, but they should at least be injured and feel like they escaped death by an inch if they survive. Not get off scott free.

I threw 12 freaking dice in one night and wasn't able to do anything!!!

[CreativeMod1]

Whilst I agree with what you're saying Albert, it depends on how true you wish to be to the OG game, idk how much betrayal you've played but in betrayal that happens and it sucks. But you'd have to find ways to work around it.
There's items in betrayal which allow for +x to rolls or allows you to pre-pick a number for your roll or something like that. But a lot of betrayal is luck of the dice and I think that aspect of betrayal should be a key part of the game

[Albert B. Rampage]

The concept of this setup is too town-sided.

All actions are accounted for so scum can't just decide to attack.
If everyone goes to the gym and scum attack, the next day all scum are caught.
If you leash scum to negative utility items, they can't attack.
If they use their 1-shot stealth, they can't attack anymore.
Most of the town had amazing PRs like additional defensive dice or if you fail to kill them (85% of the time), all scum are caught.
When scum damaged a player, that player was healed and became conftown.
Then you have labs that town can easily destroy, activated or not. Town outnumber scum so their actions are always going to defeat scum by sheer math.
They will collect more items, open more rooms, interact with more interesting things, message conftown privately.

People who say it was a little town-sided are wrong, it was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy town-sided to the point that even if there was 4 scum, scum would still lose easily.

Scum being able to destroy labs or fake attacks on themselves is just stupid. Either way its a waste of action and doesnt help scum wincon. Because its too townsided.

Scum could not

[Albert B. Rampage]

...surprise town in any way as our entire role pm was basically public