976: mystyry box of sylvyr I: isis game. day 3

[Akarin]

I mean, I thought it was totally nuts to crumb my PR in this setup, that wasn't just something I said on the spot.

It was only gonna have any value if I lived to D3 and picked a good target.

[mastina]

Subject: micro 976: ded thred

Ugh Mastina probably shot me so hard. I just don’t get why when she could discredit me

Because while I figured I could convince you I am town pretty easily, you had enough merits to have earned it. Universal townread, active poster who while causing chaos also cut through it, and did manage to catch the scumteam D1 even if you managed to talk yourself out of it. Just, you were on point this game and that made you a threat.

[MathBlade]

Mainly even if Nic was town (in this case he was) his claim was so bad that he needed to be elimmed as he wasn’t following it. While it was possible he was town his claim and actions following it were so bad he couldn’t be allowed to live and was a liability to town left standing. Any argument of Nic town had to supercede that.

[Akarin]

And I thought he was obvtown and didn't need to be eliminated.

[MathBlade]

Subject: micro 976: ded thred

Ugh Mastina probably shot me so hard. I just don’t get why when she could discredit me

Because while I figured I could convince you I am town pretty easily, you had enough merits to have earned it. Universal townread, active poster who while causing chaos also cut through it, and did manage to catch the scumteam D1 even if you managed to talk yourself out of it. Just, you were on point this game and that made you a threat.

Thank you <3

It was nice to see that I was killed for improving on MS.

[mastina]

Subject: micro 976: ded thred

Skye has to do something here if they are town. This game needs content. Mastina is usually good at asking questions but she’s not.

For the record, I am a pretty reactive player--I wasn't lying when I said that I'd love to take charge and be proactive and ask questions, but it's something that's difficult for me to do. I legit struggle when being reactive. If there's content for me to react off of, I am indeed VERY good at asking questions, but if that content is absent, I am utter shit at asking questions regardless of alignment. But, yes, probably worse at it as scum.

[TheGoldenParadox]

i'm like, three levels of confused on why i was killed. i would have defended the scumteam with my last dying breath :/

We made the wrong judgment call on a 50/50 shot to kill the cop.

We knew the cop was either you or Akarin and we thought that you were more likely--I thought that when I mentioned investigatoir, you thought it was suspicious that I mentioned it thus your decrease in townread on me out of you thinking I was breadcrumbing your role; Akarin didn't seem to be breadcrumbing investigatoir; we knew you hadn't acted N1 and thus the possibilities were VT, 1x, or novice when we knew the investigatoir was novice; between these, we thought you were Akarin's role because we guessed wrong in the 50/50. Whooooops.

i mean, right, but even as cop, i would have investigated dunn, probably, maybe skye/akarin

[MathBlade]

And I thought he was obvtown and didn't need to be eliminated.

ObvTown sometimes has to be elimmed. He really wasn’t though. The pattern he did reminds me of so many scum claims and parallels. Bad claim followed by not wanting to step back and reevaluate meant he’d tunnel Dunn all game no matter what or always had an antitown value.

[mastina]

Subject: micro 976: ded thred

How do people not suspect Mastina when she asks for dual role claims from the people at L-2 when she was at L-2 for most of the day. Like how?

I mean, as I said before: I wanted to narrow down who the investigatoir was.

That said, I did have good reason and would've done the same as town--we were near deadline and they were the leading two wagons. When I was at L-2 we were not near deadline. And, I was quite willing to claim. In fact, I wanted to. I just didn't have an excuse to. (I didn't want to claim in lylo, I wanted to claim earlier than that because I thought it'd look better if done pre-lylo.)

[Akarin]

I'm pretty sure he could have been talked out of the tunnel eventually. I don't buy this "had to be eliminated" line of reasoning at all.

That reminds me though, the other thing that was making the game frustrating was you answering for TGP. It really messed with my ability to get a read on TGP at the time. It really felt like you wouldn't let people interact with eachother in ways that didn't involve you and that was very frustrating in the game.

[mastina]

I mean I hinted to you Skye crumbed and you not picking it up was weird.

I'd think that scumastina would be more attuned to picking up 'crumbs than I am as town because as town I've no reason to and this game I did have reason to--I legit didn't see it in spite of being on the lookout for 'crumbs. I was LOOKING for them and didn't see them.

[MathBlade]

Yeah. I can see that being annoying but Nic was in effect scumclaiming in my mind because of how poorly that was played. So you by wanting to hunt elsewhere looked to be trying to escape a Nic elim.

[Akarin]

I mean it wasn't even about hunting. I like 70% expected to come out of talking to TGP with a townread, but I wanted to actually get that read at that stage in the game and you made it impossible.

And I understand that you were passionate about it, but Nic obviously wasn't actually scumclaiming. That's where I felt like there was just no point arguing about it because you weren't willing to really entertain the idea that it could be otherwise and I thought we'd sort of reached the point of... agreeing to disagree? on that?

[MathBlade]

Honestly, this post is just to claim the pagetop, but what part of Tris' post is so Alien to you? Why do you think it is scum?

Because gut?

Do you expect an actual logical reasoned case for a literal page one read?

Hello y'all i'm a kind of reflexive role, could i get visits on me in the coming nights? Kthxbye

Town.

nice try scum pgo

Town?

this kinda pings my gut though I have trouble explaining why
ehhhh
VOTE: skye

Shamelessly upgrading my read on you from Town? to Town.

VOTE: DoubtingThomas
Who, similarly, gets upgraded from scum? to Scum from page two.

Okay I think Mastina and Skye are against each other.

why is town!ari more likely to make that post than tris?

Because tris making that post is probably scum, but Ari making that post is far more likely to be a town-Aristophanes due to Aristophanes being Aristophanes.

You can't expect an action to universally always be scummy or always be townie with 100% accuracy and not take into account specific players. An action that might be generically in-general scummy can be a lock-scumtell for some players or a town indicator for other players even if in general it's scummy; an action that might generically in-general be townie can be a locktown level of town in some players...but also a dead giveaway that some players are actually scum.

25 is a post that, in general, generically speaking, I'd consider to be a scummy post to make.
From tris, I'd go one step further and say it's even a lockscum post.
But from Aristophanes, knowing him as a player, it's actually the opposite, a post that for him, indicates he's more likely to be town.

And this is where I look at Mastina and go ? Uhm what?

Assuming I buy your argument the claims are inverse. And I cannot say why without being proscum/neut.

Town you imho is better at it openly.
Scum you picks it up but doesn’t comment.

So you not even reacting at all was weird:

[Akarin]

And, I mean, I

did

want to prevent a Nic elim. I think I was pretty up front about that so you're not wrong there.

[MathBlade]

I mean it wasn't even about hunting. I like 70% expected to come out of talking to TGP with a townread, but I wanted to actually get that read at that stage in the game and you made it impossible.

And I understand that you were passionate about it, but Nic obviously wasn't actually scumclaiming. That's where I felt like there was just no point arguing about it because you weren't willing to really entertain the idea that it could be otherwise and I thought we'd sort of reached the point of... agreeing to disagree? on that?

And the smart thing to do when you have a guilty scum is give no quarter elsewhere. Especially with a scum like Mastina. I don’t regret the elim happening and if someone claims that badly they should be the elim every time even if town.

[mastina]

i mean, right, but even as cop, i would have investigated dunn, probably, maybe skye/akarin

Yes but an innocent was worse than a guilty (see also Akarin's innocent on Dunn).

An innocent was something we couldn't argue as invalid.

We could argue a guilty wasn't a guilty. E.g. a combined tracker-doctor could look guilty; Gypyx could've modified his claim to be a reflexive role that'd look like a guilty.

We needed to kill the cop not to prevent an investigate on us, but to prevent a hard-inno in lylo that made one player be above reproach.

[mastina]

Town you imho is better at it openly. Scum you picks it up but doesn’t comment. So you not even reacting at all was weird:

Because I didn't pick it up at all.

[Akarin]

If someone is clearly town, they shouldn't be eliminated no matter how badly they claim unless they're like lolhammering other town at every chance. I'd rather eliminate scum.

Although I admit, I don't feel too bad about DT, that did narrow the possible teams

a lot

.

[Akarin]

I wasn't giving mastina quarter by the way. I just didn't have time in the day to get to it and thought I had the time.

[MathBlade]

If someone is clearly town, they shouldn't be eliminated no matter how badly they claim unless they're like lolhammering other town at every chance. I'd rather eliminate scum.

Although I admit, I don't feel too bad about DT, that did narrow the possible teams

a lot

.

I feel the same about Nic.

Mastina imho worked way off of TMI to defend Nic.
She used a similar argument to attempt to elim April in a game and I was scum and just sort of gave it to her. I got literally tired of arguing against it. Miselimming April was a good thing to happen for town though.

Just because town dies doesn’t mean it’s bad. It’s a matter of if scum can breathe.

[MathBlade]

I don’t always view the game as a have to elim scum. (Granted 99% of the time I am on a scumread) but if they end up town it’s not horrible til late game.

[Akarin]

Yes, but I think had a different player than you replaced in, Nic might not have died there and could have been an asset to town.

I think a lot of the issue with Nic was your own set of biases/thought process being very different from his.

And I don't think

that's

an objectively good reason to kill him. AT least not on D1

[MathBlade]

It’s more than thought process though.

He was literally pushing someone against mod confirmed info. That’s not thought that’s scum.

[MathBlade]

If it was a case or subjectivity sure.

This was just “you are literally ignoring what mod told you and refuse to reset” therefore you must be elimmed. I push that every time no regrets.