[Complex] Survivor: Barely Survivor COMPLETE!
- Skelda
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Hi Crazy, nice to see you. I have a question about how you handle "strategic minority votes" i.e. votes that for various reasons are knowingly cast in the minority. A lot of times people are knowingly voting in the minority to send a message or to create paranoia or to pander to the Jury or for any number of other reasons. I know it gets very messy to take these into account, especially if players are voting for the people they legitimately want to see gone, knowing they won't go, but I just wanted to know how you've handled this in the past and how much it should be taken into consideration. I know that split votes in the past have not counted against players, but I wanted to know if this logic extended to other "strategic minority votes".- Skelda
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Silverclaw He/TheyGoon
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I'm not Crazy, but I can help! To put it succinctly, the answer is 'it's a case by case basis.' You can see that in the Shipwreck vote, Bard got a 5 despite voting out of the majority - he was in fact voting Cleric until the last few minutes, when he swapped off to Bonobo to make Monk happy. He knew Cleric was going and had voted for him to go previously. All the signs were there to point to him as someone who would have voted in the majority, so he counted as voting in that majority.In post 50, Skelda wrote:Hi Crazy, nice to see you. I have a question about how you handle "strategic minority votes" i.e. votes that for various reasons are knowingly cast in the minority. A lot of times people are knowingly voting in the minority to send a message or to create paranoia or to pander to the Jury or for any number of other reasons. I know it gets very messy to take these into account, especially if players are voting for the people they legitimately want to see gone, knowing they won't go, but I just wanted to know how you've handled this in the past and how much it should be taken into consideration. I know that split votes in the past have not counted against players, but I wanted to know if this logic extended to other "strategic minority votes".
Monk didn't get the same treatment because he didn't want to vote for Cleric.- Aristophanes
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Aristophanes He/HimMr. Blue Sky
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Hey Crazy, that looks hella cool and I'm definitely going to read into the way you form these stats later!
Fyi you mixed the identities on Gummy Bear and Snow Leopard in the chart there, tho the boot timing and thus the stats should be good still I assume.Half meme, Half real, All Aristophanes ;)- JingleAri has appeared way too competent for me to even pretend to know what they're thinking
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Yeah I like this lolIn post 48, xRECKONERx wrote:I now endorse the Crazy system which has my points at 2nd overall
I'll read the whole scoring thing later, but can someone who understands this sum up why we are so high (for raw score)?- xofelf
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xofelf they/them(also ze/zem or xe/xem)Miss Mash
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You voted correctly(ie, the person who went home) quite often while not receiving many votes against you until leaving. And participated in a lot of TCs that were considered interesting(that part you'll wanna read the scoring for).Xalxe: this is xofelf sometimes we call each other names and other times we share emotions
MattyP: Ur an enigma tho when it comes to circadian rhythm and the traditions we hold dear when it comes to the sun and the moon
Get to reknow a xofelf here
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- Gypyx
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Gypyx She/HerJack of All Trades
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is the first TC only taking into account the landslide rule or something?White Flag : Carebear Edition is in signups ! (9/13) sign up if you want a low pressure, high friendliness game !
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xofelf they/them(also ze/zem or xe/xem)Miss Mash
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Considering that redemption was a whole thing, I am unsure how Crazy scored the early rounds.Xalxe: this is xofelf sometimes we call each other names and other times we share emotions
MattyP: Ur an enigma tho when it comes to circadian rhythm and the traditions we hold dear when it comes to the sun and the moon
Get to reknow a xofelf here
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that's cuz you're listed in our heartWhite Flag : Carebear Edition is in signups ! (9/13) sign up if you want a low pressure, high friendliness game !
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- xRECKONERx
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Blowing Rock isn't on the list either!In post 61, VashtaNeurotic wrote:Yo Crazy, weird question. Are Lake Gaston and Willamette Valley going to end up on the sheet eventually? Neither are on the game list.green shirt thursdays- Silverclaw
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If you send me a voting chart for them, I can forward them off! Crazy doesn't go on the site much, but I'm in contact.- VashtaNeurotic
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It is on the Game List tab, but results are not up for it. Could have sworn an earlier version included the actual scores for it, but I must be mistaken.In post 62, xRECKONERx wrote:
Blowing Rock isn't on the list either!In post 61, VashtaNeurotic wrote:Yo Crazy, weird question. Are Lake Gaston and Willamette Valley going to end up on the sheet eventually? Neither are on the game list.George Bailey- VashtaNeurotic
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Voting chart for blowing rock is here: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ng_HistoryIn post 63, Silverclaw wrote:If you send me a voting chart for them, I can forward them off! Crazy doesn't go on the site much, but I'm in contact.
wouldn't include strategic minority votes though.
I assume Reck/Haschel would have voting charts for Gaston/Willamette respectively?George Bailey- Crazy
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To add to what Silverclaw said, the criteria I use is:Skelda wrote:Hi Crazy, nice to see you. I have a question about how you handle "strategic minority votes" i.e. votes that for various reasons are knowingly cast in the minority. A lot of times people are knowingly voting in the minority to send a message or to create paranoia or to pander to the Jury or for any number of other reasons. I know it gets very messy to take these into account, especially if players are voting for the people they legitimately want to see gone, knowing they won't go, but I just wanted to know how you've handled this in the past and how much it should be taken into consideration. I know that split votes in the past have not counted against players, but I wanted to know if this logic extended to other "strategic minority votes".
1. The player had knowledge of who was actually getting voted off.
2. The player fully approved of the elimination that actual occurred.
3. The vote against the majority was made for purely strategic reasons. (In other words, not out of loyalty or sentimentality.)
This is very much a case-by-case basis as Silverclaw said and is definitely the most difficult part of implementing the scoring system. To add to this, for most recent games I've scored, I haven't accounted for split votes or other strategic minority voting. Really, anything post-One World I'm not confident on, apart from Flash Mob and Barely Survivor. So I may need some insider knowledge on these games at some point.
Thanks, the image is too much effort to fix but I have corrected the mistake in the spreadsheet.Aristophanes wrote:Fyi you mixed the identities on Gummy Bear and Snow Leopard in the chart there, tho the boot timing and thus the stats should be good still I assume.
The first TC was obviously very unusual, so it was a challenge to score. The landslide rule does not apply, though, in any Tribal Council with less than 6 players. And since there was no established minority since it was the first TC of the game, all of the vote-offs there were considered dynamic by default.Gypyx wrote:is the first TC only taking into account the landslide rule or something?
I can certainly score them if anyone has the voting history available. I have lately been considering, though, which games to include as "canon" for the scoring system. I would like to include all long-form forum Survivor games with voting records available, but I would prefer not to include any marathon games. Obviously, the games you mentioned are pretty much in their own league, so I'm willing to follow public demand regarding whether those games should be included in the overall ranking. I do have scores available for Blowing Rock, which I have removed from the overall ranking, but I can easily add them back. Similarly, I also removed scores I had done for Summer of Spookz and my own game Expect the Unexpected, since both of those were essentially Big Brother games.VashtaNeurotic wrote:Yo Crazy, weird question. Are Lake Gaston and Willamette Valley going to end up on the sheet eventually? Neither are on the game list.- Gypyx
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interesting, aren't first tc's often stuff like "all aboard the inactive guy bandwagon"?In post 66, Crazy wrote:The first TC was obviously very unusual, so it was a challenge to score. The landslide rule does not apply, though, in any Tribal Council with less than 6 players. And since there was no established minority since it was the first TC of the game, all of the vote-offs there were considered dynamic by default.
idk, haven't read much survivor, but if that's the case i'd argue it's pretty non-strategicWhite Flag : Carebear Edition is in signups ! (9/13) sign up if you want a low pressure, high friendliness game !
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Generally, yeah, and in many of those cases the votes would be scored as stable. The first TC this game was an exception due to the small tribes. But any vote that ends up being 5-1, 6-1, 7-1, etc. would be scored as stable due to failing the Landslide Test. Even in this game, most of the early pre-merge votes after the first TC were unanimous and thus scored as stable.In post 67, Gypyx wrote:
interesting, aren't first tc's often stuff like "all aboard the inactive guy bandwagon"?In post 66, Crazy wrote:The first TC was obviously very unusual, so it was a challenge to score. The landslide rule does not apply, though, in any Tribal Council with less than 6 players. And since there was no established minority since it was the first TC of the game, all of the vote-offs there were considered dynamic by default.
idk, haven't read much survivor, but if that's the case i'd argue it's pretty non-strategic- Gypyx
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ah okay, thought you meant as a general rule, yeah ok i get it thxWhite Flag : Carebear Edition is in signups ! (9/13) sign up if you want a low pressure, high friendliness game !
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https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ake_GastonIn post 65, VashtaNeurotic wrote:
Voting chart for blowing rock is here: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ng_HistoryIn post 63, Silverclaw wrote:If you send me a voting chart for them, I can forward them off! Crazy doesn't go on the site much, but I'm in contact.
wouldn't include strategic minority votes though.
I assume Reck/Haschel would have voting charts for Gaston/Willamette respectively?green shirt thursdays- xofelf
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xofelf they/them(also ze/zem or xe/xem)Miss Mash
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You rang?In post 66, Crazy wrote:So I may need some insider knowledge on these games at some point.
(no but seriously, I can definitely help you out with this on any game you're unfamiliar with)Xalxe: this is xofelf sometimes we call each other names and other times we share emotions
MattyP: Ur an enigma tho when it comes to circadian rhythm and the traditions we hold dear when it comes to the sun and the moon
Get to reknow a xofelf here
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