[Complex] Survivor: Barely Survivor COMPLETE!

For large social games such as Survivor where the primary mechanic is social interaction.
User avatar
Skelda
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
User avatar
User avatar
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
Zee Retiree
Posts: 1384
Joined: July 21, 2013
Pronoun: he/him
Location: Definitely Not Playing an LSG

Post Post #50 (ISO) » Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:57 pm

Post by Skelda »

Hi Crazy, nice to see you. I have a question about how you handle "strategic minority votes" i.e. votes that for various reasons are knowingly cast in the minority. A lot of times people are knowingly voting in the minority to send a message or to create paranoia or to pander to the Jury or for any number of other reasons. I know it gets very messy to take these into account, especially if players are voting for the people they legitimately want to see gone, knowing they won't go, but I just wanted to know how you've handled this in the past and how much it should be taken into consideration. I know that split votes in the past have not counted against players, but I wanted to know if this logic extended to other "strategic minority votes".
User avatar
Skelda
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
User avatar
User avatar
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
Zee Retiree
Posts: 1384
Joined: July 21, 2013
Pronoun: he/him
Location: Definitely Not Playing an LSG

Post Post #51 (ISO) » Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:59 pm

Post by Skelda »

I would also argue that a relatively large percentage of minority votes could be considered strategic, even if that strategy is just "I'm not going to stab my ally or vote for something I don't want to have happen when everyone already knows where I stand"
User avatar
Silverclaw
Silverclaw
He/They
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Silverclaw
He/They
Goon
Goon
Posts: 122
Joined: September 28, 2020
Pronoun: He/They

Post Post #52 (ISO) » Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:04 pm

Post by Silverclaw »

In post 50, Skelda wrote:Hi Crazy, nice to see you. I have a question about how you handle "strategic minority votes" i.e. votes that for various reasons are knowingly cast in the minority. A lot of times people are knowingly voting in the minority to send a message or to create paranoia or to pander to the Jury or for any number of other reasons. I know it gets very messy to take these into account, especially if players are voting for the people they legitimately want to see gone, knowing they won't go, but I just wanted to know how you've handled this in the past and how much it should be taken into consideration. I know that split votes in the past have not counted against players, but I wanted to know if this logic extended to other "strategic minority votes".
I'm not Crazy, but I can help! To put it succinctly, the answer is 'it's a case by case basis.' You can see that in the Shipwreck vote, Bard got a 5 despite voting out of the majority - he was in fact voting Cleric until the last few minutes, when he swapped off to Bonobo to make Monk happy. He knew Cleric was going and had voted for him to go previously. All the signs were there to point to him as someone who would have voted in the majority, so he counted as voting in that majority.

Monk didn't get the same treatment because he didn't want to vote for Cleric.
Formerly animorpherv1.
rgqxi is your answer


User avatar
Aristophanes
Aristophanes
He/Him
Mr. Blue Sky
User avatar
User avatar
Aristophanes
He/Him
Mr. Blue Sky
Mr. Blue Sky
Posts: 17170
Joined: December 30, 2014
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Hiding from Actual Cannibal Shia Lebeouf
Contact:

Post Post #53 (ISO) » Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:31 am

Post by Aristophanes »

Hey Crazy, that looks hella cool and I'm definitely going to read into the way you form these stats later! :)

Fyi you mixed the identities on Gummy Bear and Snow Leopard in the chart there, tho the boot timing and thus the stats should be good still I assume.
Half meme, Half real, All Aristophanes ;)
- Jingle
Ari has appeared way too competent for me to even pretend to know what they're thinking
- MooseEatsBear on discord mafia
it wouldn’t be an ari sig unless it takes up half the screen on mobile - Vonflare
User avatar
MURDERCAT
MURDERCAT
he/him
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
MURDERCAT
he/him
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 11708
Joined: March 18, 2016
Pronoun: he/him
Location: Chicago

Post Post #54 (ISO) » Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:16 am

Post by MURDERCAT »

In post 48, xRECKONERx wrote:I now endorse the Crazy system which has my points at 2nd overall
Yeah I like this lol
I'll read the whole scoring thing later, but can someone who understands this sum up why we are so high (for raw score)?
GTKAMURDERCAT

Retired from playing, find me on discord
User avatar
xofelf
xofelf
they/them(also ze/zem or xe/xem)
Miss Mash
User avatar
User avatar
xofelf
they/them(also ze/zem or xe/xem)
Miss Mash
Miss Mash
Posts: 1766
Joined: May 6, 2008
Pronoun: they/them(also ze/zem or xe/xem)
Location: Herkimer, New York
Contact:

Post Post #55 (ISO) » Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:23 am

Post by xofelf »

You voted correctly(ie, the person who went home) quite often while not receiving many votes against you until leaving. And participated in a lot of TCs that were considered interesting(that part you'll wanna read the scoring for).
Xalxe: this is xofelf sometimes we call each other names and other times we share emotions
MattyP: Ur an enigma tho when it comes to circadian rhythm and the traditions we hold dear when it comes to the sun and the moon
Get to reknow a xofelf here
Discord is faster than PMs or sitechat: xofelf#1697
User avatar
MURDERCAT
MURDERCAT
he/him
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
MURDERCAT
he/him
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 11708
Joined: March 18, 2016
Pronoun: he/him
Location: Chicago

Post Post #56 (ISO) » Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:24 am

Post by MURDERCAT »

That makes sense!
GTKAMURDERCAT

Retired from playing, find me on discord
User avatar
Gypyx
Gypyx
She/Her
Virtute Ex Machina
User avatar
User avatar
Gypyx
She/Her
Virtute Ex Machina
Virtute Ex Machina
Posts: 7266
Joined: March 25, 2020
Pronoun: She/Her
Location: France

Post Post #57 (ISO) » Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:27 am

Post by Gypyx »

is the first TC only taking into account the landslide rule or something?
bottom text
User avatar
xofelf
xofelf
they/them(also ze/zem or xe/xem)
Miss Mash
User avatar
User avatar
xofelf
they/them(also ze/zem or xe/xem)
Miss Mash
Miss Mash
Posts: 1766
Joined: May 6, 2008
Pronoun: they/them(also ze/zem or xe/xem)
Location: Herkimer, New York
Contact:

Post Post #58 (ISO) » Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:32 am

Post by xofelf »

Considering that redemption was a whole thing, I am unsure how Crazy scored the early rounds.
Xalxe: this is xofelf sometimes we call each other names and other times we share emotions
MattyP: Ur an enigma tho when it comes to circadian rhythm and the traditions we hold dear when it comes to the sun and the moon
Get to reknow a xofelf here
Discord is faster than PMs or sitechat: xofelf#1697
User avatar
Haschel Cedricson
Haschel Cedricson
Mr. Know It All
User avatar
User avatar
Haschel Cedricson
Mr. Know It All
Mr. Know It All
Posts: 2954
Joined: May 14, 2007
Location: Cascadian Subduction Zone
Contact:

Post Post #59 (ISO) » Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:36 am

Post by Haschel Cedricson »

I don't see my character listed in the chart.
User avatar
Gypyx
Gypyx
She/Her
Virtute Ex Machina
User avatar
User avatar
Gypyx
She/Her
Virtute Ex Machina
Virtute Ex Machina
Posts: 7266
Joined: March 25, 2020
Pronoun: She/Her
Location: France

Post Post #60 (ISO) » Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:46 am

Post by Gypyx »

that's cuz you're listed in our heart
bottom text
User avatar
VashtaNeurotic
VashtaNeurotic
He/Him
Bullet Trainer
User avatar
User avatar
VashtaNeurotic
He/Him
Bullet Trainer
Bullet Trainer
Posts: 125
Joined: March 11, 2017
Pronoun: He/Him

Post Post #61 (ISO) » Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:05 am

Post by VashtaNeurotic »

Yo Crazy, weird question. Are Lake Gaston and Willamette Valley going to end up on the sheet eventually? Neither are on the game list.
George Bailey
User avatar
xRECKONERx
xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
User avatar
User avatar
xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
GD is my Best Man
Posts: 26087
Joined: March 15, 2009

Post Post #62 (ISO) » Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:29 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

In post 61, VashtaNeurotic wrote:Yo Crazy, weird question. Are Lake Gaston and Willamette Valley going to end up on the sheet eventually? Neither are on the game list.
Blowing Rock isn't on the list either!
green shirt thursdays
User avatar
Silverclaw
Silverclaw
He/They
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Silverclaw
He/They
Goon
Goon
Posts: 122
Joined: September 28, 2020
Pronoun: He/They

Post Post #63 (ISO) » Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:45 am

Post by Silverclaw »

If you send me a voting chart for them, I can forward them off! Crazy doesn't go on the site much, but I'm in contact.
Formerly animorpherv1.
rgqxi is your answer


User avatar
VashtaNeurotic
VashtaNeurotic
He/Him
Bullet Trainer
User avatar
User avatar
VashtaNeurotic
He/Him
Bullet Trainer
Bullet Trainer
Posts: 125
Joined: March 11, 2017
Pronoun: He/Him

Post Post #64 (ISO) » Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:53 am

Post by VashtaNeurotic »

In post 62, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 61, VashtaNeurotic wrote:Yo Crazy, weird question. Are Lake Gaston and Willamette Valley going to end up on the sheet eventually? Neither are on the game list.
Blowing Rock isn't on the list either!
It is on the Game List tab, but results are not up for it. Could have sworn an earlier version included the actual scores for it, but I must be mistaken.
George Bailey
User avatar
VashtaNeurotic
VashtaNeurotic
He/Him
Bullet Trainer
User avatar
User avatar
VashtaNeurotic
He/Him
Bullet Trainer
Bullet Trainer
Posts: 125
Joined: March 11, 2017
Pronoun: He/Him

Post Post #65 (ISO) » Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:00 am

Post by VashtaNeurotic »

In post 63, Silverclaw wrote:If you send me a voting chart for them, I can forward them off! Crazy doesn't go on the site much, but I'm in contact.
Voting chart for blowing rock is here: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ng_History

wouldn't include strategic minority votes though.

I assume Reck/Haschel would have voting charts for Gaston/Willamette respectively?
George Bailey
User avatar
Crazy
Crazy
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Crazy
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 4435
Joined: May 6, 2008
Location: Somewhere

Post Post #66 (ISO) » Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:14 am

Post by Crazy »

Skelda wrote:Hi Crazy, nice to see you. I have a question about how you handle "strategic minority votes" i.e. votes that for various reasons are knowingly cast in the minority. A lot of times people are knowingly voting in the minority to send a message or to create paranoia or to pander to the Jury or for any number of other reasons. I know it gets very messy to take these into account, especially if players are voting for the people they legitimately want to see gone, knowing they won't go, but I just wanted to know how you've handled this in the past and how much it should be taken into consideration. I know that split votes in the past have not counted against players, but I wanted to know if this logic extended to other "strategic minority votes".
To add to what Silverclaw said, the criteria I use is:

1. The player had knowledge of who was actually getting voted off.
2. The player fully approved of the elimination that actual occurred.
3. The vote against the majority was made for purely strategic reasons. (In other words, not out of loyalty or sentimentality.)

This is very much a case-by-case basis as Silverclaw said and is definitely the most difficult part of implementing the scoring system. To add to this, for most recent games I've scored, I haven't accounted for split votes or other strategic minority voting. Really, anything post-One World I'm not confident on, apart from Flash Mob and Barely Survivor. So I may need some insider knowledge on these games at some point.
Aristophanes wrote:Fyi you mixed the identities on Gummy Bear and Snow Leopard in the chart there, tho the boot timing and thus the stats should be good still I assume.
Thanks, the image is too much effort to fix but I have corrected the mistake in the spreadsheet.
Gypyx wrote:is the first TC only taking into account the landslide rule or something?
The first TC was obviously very unusual, so it was a challenge to score. The landslide rule does not apply, though, in any Tribal Council with less than 6 players. And since there was no established minority since it was the first TC of the game, all of the vote-offs there were considered dynamic by default.
VashtaNeurotic wrote:Yo Crazy, weird question. Are Lake Gaston and Willamette Valley going to end up on the sheet eventually? Neither are on the game list.
I can certainly score them if anyone has the voting history available. I have lately been considering, though, which games to include as "canon" for the scoring system. I would like to include all long-form forum Survivor games with voting records available, but I would prefer not to include any marathon games. Obviously, the games you mentioned are pretty much in their own league, so I'm willing to follow public demand regarding whether those games should be included in the overall ranking. I do have scores available for Blowing Rock, which I have removed from the overall ranking, but I can easily add them back. Similarly, I also removed scores I had done for Summer of Spookz and my own game Expect the Unexpected, since both of those were essentially Big Brother games.
User avatar
Gypyx
Gypyx
She/Her
Virtute Ex Machina
User avatar
User avatar
Gypyx
She/Her
Virtute Ex Machina
Virtute Ex Machina
Posts: 7266
Joined: March 25, 2020
Pronoun: She/Her
Location: France

Post Post #67 (ISO) » Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:20 am

Post by Gypyx »

In post 66, Crazy wrote:The first TC was obviously very unusual, so it was a challenge to score. The landslide rule does not apply, though, in any Tribal Council with less than 6 players. And since there was no established minority since it was the first TC of the game, all of the vote-offs there were considered dynamic by default.
interesting, aren't first tc's often stuff like "all aboard the inactive guy bandwagon"?

idk, haven't read much survivor, but if that's the case i'd argue it's pretty non-strategic
bottom text
User avatar
Crazy
Crazy
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Crazy
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 4435
Joined: May 6, 2008
Location: Somewhere

Post Post #68 (ISO) » Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:25 am

Post by Crazy »

In post 67, Gypyx wrote:
In post 66, Crazy wrote:The first TC was obviously very unusual, so it was a challenge to score. The landslide rule does not apply, though, in any Tribal Council with less than 6 players. And since there was no established minority since it was the first TC of the game, all of the vote-offs there were considered dynamic by default.
interesting, aren't first tc's often stuff like "all aboard the inactive guy bandwagon"?

idk, haven't read much survivor, but if that's the case i'd argue it's pretty non-strategic
Generally, yeah, and in many of those cases the votes would be scored as stable. The first TC this game was an exception due to the small tribes. But any vote that ends up being 5-1, 6-1, 7-1, etc. would be scored as stable due to failing the Landslide Test. Even in this game, most of the early pre-merge votes after the first TC were unanimous and thus scored as stable.
User avatar
Gypyx
Gypyx
She/Her
Virtute Ex Machina
User avatar
User avatar
Gypyx
She/Her
Virtute Ex Machina
Virtute Ex Machina
Posts: 7266
Joined: March 25, 2020
Pronoun: She/Her
Location: France

Post Post #69 (ISO) » Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:29 am

Post by Gypyx »

ah okay, thought you meant as a general rule, yeah ok i get it thx
bottom text
User avatar
xRECKONERx
xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
User avatar
User avatar
xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
GD is my Best Man
Posts: 26087
Joined: March 15, 2009

Post Post #70 (ISO) » Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:54 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

In post 65, VashtaNeurotic wrote:
In post 63, Silverclaw wrote:If you send me a voting chart for them, I can forward them off! Crazy doesn't go on the site much, but I'm in contact.
Voting chart for blowing rock is here: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ng_History

wouldn't include strategic minority votes though.

I assume Reck/Haschel would have voting charts for Gaston/Willamette respectively?
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ake_Gaston
green shirt thursdays
User avatar
xofelf
xofelf
they/them(also ze/zem or xe/xem)
Miss Mash
User avatar
User avatar
xofelf
they/them(also ze/zem or xe/xem)
Miss Mash
Miss Mash
Posts: 1766
Joined: May 6, 2008
Pronoun: they/them(also ze/zem or xe/xem)
Location: Herkimer, New York
Contact:

Post Post #71 (ISO) » Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:29 am

Post by xofelf »

In post 66, Crazy wrote:So I may need some insider knowledge on these games at some point.
You rang?
(no but seriously, I can definitely help you out with this on any game you're unfamiliar with)
Xalxe: this is xofelf sometimes we call each other names and other times we share emotions
MattyP: Ur an enigma tho when it comes to circadian rhythm and the traditions we hold dear when it comes to the sun and the moon
Get to reknow a xofelf here
Discord is faster than PMs or sitechat: xofelf#1697
User avatar
Malkon05
Malkon05
He/Him/His
Mashtermind
User avatar
User avatar
Malkon05
He/Him/His
Mashtermind
Mashtermind
Posts: 245
Joined: June 30, 2016
Pronoun: He/Him/His
Contact:

Post Post #72 (ISO) » Sun Oct 31, 2021 9:24 am

Post by Malkon05 »

I was given a good suggestion to put the Character of the Year poll for this game here. Be sure you get your voting in before the end of the year! Only 2 months left:

Post Reply

Return to “ORGs and Large Social Games”