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OutWorldER's Mini Normal Review, January 2021

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:24 pm
by implosion
OutWorldER wrote:Hello, going in for my first moderator game on this site, I got everything ready to review (I think and hope.)

Spoiler: Basic Setup Information:
Player Count: 13

1 Town Disloyal Fruit Vendor
1 Town Loyal Jailkeeper
1 Town Neapolitan
1 Mafia 2-shot Neighborizer
1 Mafia JOAT (1-shot Strongman, 1-shot Jailkeeper, 1-shot Activated Informed)
1 Mafia Goon
7 Vanilla Townie

Activated Informed Information:
There is a Loyal Jailkeeper in the game.

Mechanics:
Days are 2 IRL weeks. Nights are 2 IRL days.
Majority-only elimination mechancis
Daytalk for all PT's.


Notes:
My goal when designing this setup was to make a low-swing setup that gives scum the ability to warlock the game with their neighborizer ability. To counterbalance, I gave town three roles to confirm other townies, one that gets weaker over time due to said neighborizer, the two others whose results may not come or be messed with in the case of the LJK.
The biggest worry I have with the setup at the moment is I'm unsure if said counterbalance is too effective and will lead to town PoEing too easily.
Also looking for feedback on my ruleset.



Spoiler: Role PM's:
Town Disloyal Fruit Vendor:Welcome to Mini [NUMBER]! Your role is
Town Disloyal Fruit Vendor
!

Each night, you may target a player. Assuming no intereference with your action, that player will be told they received fruit (but not who sent it). This action will be blocked if used on a player who belongs to the same faction as you.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with your full role name.


Town Loyal Jailkeeper:Welcome to Mini [NUMBER]! Your role is
Town Loyal Jailkeeper
!

Each night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will be simultaneously roleblocked and protected. This action will be blocked if used on a player who belongs to a different faction than you.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with your full role name.


Town Neapolitan:Welcome to Mini [NUMBER]! Your role is
Town Neapolitan
!

Each night, you may target a player. Assuming no intereference with your action, you will learn if that player is a Vanilla Townie or not.

Possible Results: [Player] is a vanilla townie! // [Player] is not a vanilla townie! // Your action failed and you received no result.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with your full role name.


Vanilla Townie:Welcome to Mini [NUMBER]! Your role is
Vanilla Townie
!

You have no active abilites. Your weapons are your vote and your voice.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with your full role name.


Mafia Goon:Welcome to Mini [NUMBER]! Your role is
Mafia Goon
!

Your teammates are [NAME] and [NAME]. You may talk to them here:

Daytalk is avaliable for all PT's.

Each night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference, that player will die.

You win if at least one mafia member is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

Confirm by replying to this PM with your full role name.


Mafia 2-shot NeighborizerWelcome to Mini [NUMBER]! Your role is
Mafia 2-shot Neighborizer
!

Your teammates are [NAME] and [NAME]. You may talk to them here:

Daytalk is avaliable for all PT's.

Each night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference, that player will die.
Each night, you may target a player besides yourself. Assuming no interference, that player will be added to a private topic that you share with them and any other players you've used this action on. This action can only be used twice per game.

You win if at least one mafia member is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

Confirm by replying to this PM with your full role name.


Mafia JOATWelcome to Mini [NUMBER]! Your role is
Mafia Jack-of-All-Trades
! Your Jack-of-all-trades powers are:
1-shot Jailkeeper, 1-shot Activated Informed, 1-shot Strongman.


Your teammates are [NAME] and [NAME]. You may talk to them here:

Daytalk is avaliable for all PT's.

Each night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference, that player will die.

Jailkeeper: Once per game during the night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference, that player will be simultaneous roleblocked and protected.

Activated Informed: Once per game during the night, you may activate this ability. Assuming no interference, you will learn information about the setup.

Strongman: Once per game during the night, if you are performing a Killing action: That action cannot be blocked or protected against by any means.

You win if at least one mafia member is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

Confirm by replying to this PM with your full role name.


Spoiler: Result PMs:
Neapolitan:

Positive result[Player] is a Vanilla Townie

Negative Result[Player] is not a Vanilla Townie

Action FailureYour action failed, and you received no result


Spoiler: Rules:
Rules

Inspired by Umlaut's ruleset, with some tweaks.
No rules stated here supersede the Forum Rules and Guidelines. If there is a contradiction between these rules and those, please inform me privately so I may correct it.


The Basics
:
  • Days are 336 hours (2 weeks). Nights are 48 hours (2 days).
    Prod timers of 48/24 (hours). The timer pauses during weekends. Naked prod dodges will only be counted the first three times. Players who incur 3 prods will be replaced.
    Standard Majority-only elimination mechanics.
    Daytalk enabled for all PT's.
Conduct:
  • 1. I will be using
    Teal
    for my mod color. Avoid using it.
    2. Play to your win-condition.
    3. You may not discuss this game in any capacity outside of this game until a win-condition has been met.
    4. Mafia can become a heated game. Some measure of insult is allowed. However, excessive insults, ad-hominim attacks, or targeted harrassment will be met with a warning. Failing to adhere to it will result in replacement. The use of slurs/insults/attacks that target minority, disadvantaged, or legally protected classes will result in replacement.
    5. Interpersonal disputes and other outside influences are to be kept out of the game.
    6. Do not quote or misquote private communications from the moderator. Do not quote or misquote any communications from any private topics you be in.
    7. Don't use encryption, tiny/hidden/unreadable text or anything that makes your post illegible in the main thread. All communication in the main thread must be in English.
    8. Images/GIF's are allowed as long as they are not excessively large. As a general rule, avoid using anything that is over 1000 pixels in any dimension. Excessive amounts of GIF's/Images on a single page will result in a warning.
    9. All replacement requests will be taken as serious, irrevocable, and effective once they are sent. Once you have requested replacement, you are disbarred from posting in the main thread. Similiarly, do not declare a replace out in the thread. Do not threaten to replace out. Do not tell another player to replace out, or say that you are considering replacing out.
    10. If you are eliminated from the game through any means, you are disbarred from posting in the thread.
    11. All pretended violations of the above rules will be treated as actual violations. Do not intentionally test the limits of these rules.
Activity Requirements:

Every 48 hours without a post will inquire a prod from me. Once you are prodded, you have 24 hours to post before you are replaced.
The prod timer is paused during weekends.
You may post naked prod dodges, but they will only count the first three times. Afterwards, posts must be game-advancing to reset the prod timer.
If you are prodded three times, you will be replaced.
Vacation/Limited Access: Declare V/LA by bolding Mod: V/LA until [date], if you have to be absent longer than 36 hours. The prod timer pauses completely during this time. If you are V/LA longer than 7 days (168 hours), you will be replaced. If you must be V/LA for that amount of time or longer, I recommend you simply replace out instead.

  • Game Mechanics:


Day:
  • Days begin with a deadline of 336 hours (14 days/2 weeks)
    Days end when one of the following occurs:

    The deadline is reached
    An execution (elimination) or no-execution (no-elimination) is achieved.
    A player of any alignment is modkilled.
    Votes should be made via the vote tag: ["vote]NAME[/vote"] or ["v]NAME[/v"] (without the quotation marks). Full-player names are preferred.
    When more than half of the living players (50% + 1 rounded down) are voting for the same player, that player will be executed (eliminated) and the day will end. Votes are irrevocable once a majority is achieved.
    You may vote not to execute by voting for "No Execution or No Elimination". When a majority is reached on this (50% + 1 rounded down), the day will end without an execution.
    If the day reaches deadline without a majority, there will be no execution.
    Votes must be recognizably the players name, or they will not be counted (e.g typing SpaceHospital when you are trying to vote for OutWorldER will not count.)
    When a majority vote has been achieved but not yet recognized by the moderator, then the game is in Twilight. All players, including the condemned, may continue to post in all related topics until I lock the thread.
    Under certain circumstances I may elect to extend the deadline. I will announce this in thread if it occurs.
Night:
  • Nights last 48 hours, or until all living players have given me approval to end it early.
    During the night, you should be unable to post in the public game thread. If for some reason you are able, doing so is against the rules.
    Mafia night abilities must be submitted in the Mafia's private thread. Factional kills must specify which mafioso carries out the kill.
    Town night abilities should be submitted via PM. If you have a Notes PT, I will allow it to be submitted there.
    Use of active night abilities is optional unless otherwise specified in the role PM; if no action is submitted, no action will occur.
Sample Role PM:

At least one player will receive the role of Townie and the following role PM:

Sample Role PMVanilla Townie:

Welcome to Mini [NUMBER]! Your role is Vanilla Townie!

You have no active abilites. Your weapons are your vote and your voice.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with your full role name.

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:24 pm
by implosion
Primary: mastina
Secondary: Flavor Leaf
(First review of the year!)

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:48 pm
by OutWorldER
ego

also after reading a few more reviews (I read a few before submitting this then read some more in the in-between) I've discovered scum neighborizer is considered (or was considered) far more powerful than I had initially thought.

I'll wait for the reviewers to say more though.

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:13 pm
by mastina
Yeah the game would be scumsided if all three scum were goons, albeit only just. (I'd pass all goons with the three town PRs as being ~56-44 scum-town, scumsided but passably so.)

Disloyal Fruit Vendor, if played well, can get one guilty, but 1: only if played well, and 2: only get that one guilty. It is otherwise worthless. Neapolitan can get innocents, but not guilties. The jailkeeper can't stop scum, but in its protections, ensures the disloyal fruit vendor can't get its guilty and ensures the neapolitan can't get innocents.

But if you want to have scum PRs, the town needs to be much, much, MUCH stronger than it is.

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:10 am
by Flavor Leaf
Yeah, pretty scum heavy right now. I know Disloyal Fruit Vendor is one of those gotcha roles scum hate, but effectively, it's still weaker than a Cop.

Town need some more power against neighborizer/joat.

I'm not the biggest fan of the Activated Informed over just an Informed role. I probably actively wouldn't use it.

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:22 am
by OutWorldER
Alright.

I'm thinking of removing the JOAT entirely and just having another Goon, swapping LJK for Roaming Doc and swapping the Disloyal Fruit Vendor for a different investigative, maybe even a straight Cop of some variety.

But I'm just spitballing here. What are your suggestions?

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:44 am
by Flavor Leaf
Sorry about the lack of being here. I've been mobile posting the past few days.

If you want to keep that low power, then yes, removing the JOAT is a good idea.

Roaming Doctor in place of Loyal Jailkeeper is nice as well.

I think Neapolitan works as a pretty strong investigative if you have a lot of VT's like you do.

If you want to keep the Loyal Modifier somewhere, you could add it to the Roaming Doctor and then add a something like a Voyeur, which if it catches the doctor shot, then it will confirm the player as town based on Loyal only succeeding through if it hits same alignment.

Voyeur
Loyal Roaming Doctor
Neapolitan
7 Vanilla

vs

2-shot Neighborizer
Goon
Goon

Pretty similar to your original setup. Could even add a Simple Fruit Vendor or something like that to town which can have synergy with Neapolitan if you wanted to keep the fruit in there somewhere.

Neighborizer can be pretty strong, and scum have fake claim potential to mess with setup spec.

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:52 am
by OutWorldER
I'll wait for Mastina's input, but I like that setup. Though does Voyeur know the modifiers of the action performed on a player? I assume not, but just checking.

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:56 am
by Flavor Leaf
No, they learn what type of action.

Like if they target the same player as the Neapolitan they would get "Investigative" or same as the Doctor "Protective"

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:34 pm
by mastina
In post 7, OutWorldER wrote:I'll wait for Mastina's input, but I like that setup. Though does Voyeur know the modifiers of the action performed on a player? I assume not, but just checking.
I also like the setup. And per the wiki, we have a page for what results voyeurs get:
Commute
- Commuter
Blocking
- Roleblocker, Rolestopper, Alien
Jailkeep
- Jailkeeper
Protection
- Doctor, Bodyguard, Babysitter (when it protects)
Miscellaneous
- Neighborizer, Friendly Neighbor, Hider, Fruit Vendor, Visitor, Mailman, Checker
Kill
- Mafia factional kill, SK factional kill, Strongman, Vigilante, Babysitter (when it kills)
Role Investigation
- Cop, Gunsmith, Role Cop, Vanilla Cop, Neapolitan, Psychologist, Detective, Traffic Analyst, PT Cop, Finder
Action Investigation
- Tracker, Watcher, Voyeur, Follower, Motion Detector, Role Watcher
(So in this game, the possible results are 'protection', 'role investigation', 'miscellaneous', and 'kill', but you have to be aware of them all as to not confirm what types of actions are in the game.)

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:49 pm
by OutWorldER
VoyeurWelcome to Mini [NUMBER]! Your role is
Town Voyeur
!

Each night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn what type of action was taken on that player, but not who did it.

The possible action types are listed in the spoiler below
Spoiler:
Commute
Blocking
Jailkeep
Protection
Miscellaneous
Kill
Role Investigation
Action Investigation


You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with your full role name.


Loyal Roaming DoctorWelcome to Mini [NUMBER]! Your role is
Town Loyal Roaming Doctor
!

Each night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference, that player will be protected from all killing actions. This action will be blocked on players who do not share the same faction as you. You may only target each player once with this ability.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with your full role name.


Spoiler: Result PM's
MiscYour target had a Miscellaneous action performed on them

ProtectionYour target had a Protection action performed on them

KillYour target had a Kill action performed on them

Role InvestigationYour target had a Role Investigation action performed on them

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:06 pm
by Flavor Leaf
Yeah, looks good. Seems like you have a handle on the voyeur role.

I think if Mastina is ready to pass it, you're good to go.

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:43 pm
by mastina
Almost, but there's a couple of details:
-The mafia 2x neighborizer role should specify it cannot neighborize if performing the factional kill
-There should be a role PM for players recruited to a neighborhood

So, need those small extra, after that we good tho.

Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:04 am
by OutWorldER
Mafia 2-shot NeighborizerWelcome to Mini [NUMBER]! Your role is
Mafia 2-shot Neighborizer
!

Your teammates are [NAME] and [NAME]. You may talk to them here:

Daytalk is avaliable for all PT's.

Each night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference, that player will die. You may not perform this action if you are performing any other actions the same night.
Each night, you may target a player besides yourself. Assuming no interference, that player will be added to a private topic that you share with them and any other players you've used this action on. This action can only be used twice per game.

You win if at least one mafia member is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

Confirm by replying to this PM with your full role name.


NeighborHello [PLAYER]! You have been successfully targeted by a Neighborizer action! You are now a Neighbor in addition to your other roles.

Daytalk is available for all PT's.

You share a private topic with other players recruited into this neighborhood and the Neighborizer, in which you may communicate as long as you are alive. The PT is here:

Your win condition is not affected by this action.

Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:55 pm
by mastina
Good enough for me.
/pass

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:34 am
by OutWorldER
Hi, coming back to this to ask a question regarding flipping Neighborized players.

The wiki says that the Neighborized players do not have their Role Names changed, I assume this means that when a neighborized player is flipped, it does not reveal they are neighborized?

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:37 am
by implosion
Correct.

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:35 am
by OutWorldER
The game is over, this thread can now be opened.