Noraa's Mini Normal review, January 2021

[Noraa]

O I didn't know role pms had to be checked :O
haha lol <3333

[Noraa]

yay got my beautiful page top!

[implosion]

Basically it's just good to ensure that the mod isn't misinterpreting any of the roles since a lot of them can be subtle in some cases.

[Noraa]

Oh! Got it that makes sense

[Noraa]

I thought I was a cop last time I was a loyal visitor
I didn't know checker could get even weaker O_O

[Isis]

Normal games are sometimes a player's first mafia game, so the implications of one night, one action, need to be spelled out. Some mods write it as a constraint on the factional NK, some write it as a constraint on the mafia PRs. This is particularly important when you have a non-visiting mafia PR.
I don't know for sure what gunsmith PMs ought to look like, I wake up every day and feel amazed it's a role. If you're minimalist the mafdoctor interaction seems unclear if you haven't seen that movie where the mafia doctor disposes of a handgun because he buys so many poisons he can't afford to keep it loaded all the time, not many people have seen that movie. If you spell everything out it feels like you're modslipping that your game is heavier on the interactions than a VT Goon game, maybe.
Nsg what do you do

You're game has both sides win if the game ends with zero players alive, I have to object to that as a mathy nerdy logician. It's ok if neither win (a draw) but it's illogical that both win. Personally I don't think any game should end in a draw if it can be feasibly designed to produce no draws but that's too peculiar to me to push it in reviews. I -can- push in a review though, that, these would technically be bastard role PMs where both the solo vig and solo goon think the other person's role PM is the one that requires a survivor, so they're the one that gets an exclusive win.
I would remove "to fail" from the alien role PM, it's redundant, but it's the wording out of the two redundant wordings that doesn't track best with how tracking someone who visited an alien'd player resolves.

It would be great if your gunsmith PM made it clear that, like I said before, backup is actually a modifier in normal game mechanics. It's not "someone dies and you stop being vt and become this role", it's, "you are always this role, but you're nervous about using it". The good formattings I've seen describe the action, then say you can't use it until the gunsmith dies. It's important because the mafia gunsmith can check the backup gunsmith for a gun, and the backup gunsmith should expect that to be a guilty.

Some reviewers insist on putting "assuming no interference with your action" in every single role PM but I kind of don't care, and I think I actually don't when I'm running themes or whatever. I get the concept but I feel like playing mafia at a sweet sixteen birthday party and seeing that the doctor can make a kill fail makes for sufficient notice that mafia mechanics disrupt other mafia mechanics sometimes.

[Isis]

I typed this on my phone and the paragraphing looks bad

[northsidegal]

would prefer you separate loyal alien into two sentences, keep up until "targeting them to fail" and then have a second sentence or second line which says "Your action will fail if you target players not sharing your alignment" or something similar. also correct spelling mistake

also probably take "yadda yadda" out? not a huge deal if you want to keep it i guess, but if it's just for us then we should be seeing the final version of your role PMs

don't like the backup gunsmith role PM. again i would prefer the modifier and actual role be put into separate lines, so i might have the first line be a description of regular gunsmith abilities and the second say something like "you cannot use your role until the death of a gunsmith", or "as a backup gunsmith, you cannot...". not mandatory on that one but that's my personal preference. what i would say is mandatory is either listing out every role that has a gun or linking directly to the wiki page where you can see which ones that do

novice 3-shot is worded really awkwardly

didn't notice anything else. the point about a potential "both sides win" is possible but i guess you could just call that situation a draw so i personally wouldn't see a

need

to change that, although you can if you want.

[Isis]

A clearly communicated draw ruling is fine, there's wordings that produce that like "wipe out the town before they wipe you out" or by putting a minimum 1 living member requirement onto both factions instead of just one.

[northsidegal]

yeah i mean it's not hard to do but both sides losing being a draw could really just be the same thing as both sides winning being a draw

[Gypyx]

okay so...

rewirte how modifiers act
alright for taking yadda out
update the wincons
put a link to the gunsmith wiki

[Gypyx]

guess i'll do that then

[Gypyx]

Welcome,

player

. You are

Town Loyal Alien

.

Abilities:

• Each night, you may alien someone, roleblocking them and preventing all actions targeting them to fail
• Your actions may only work of players that have the same alignement as you

Win condition:

• You win if all threats to the town die and there still is a town-aligned player alive

Game thread is here. Please confirm by telling me your alignment and role. Clarify all questions you might have before it's too late

Welcome,

player

. You are

Town Night 1,3 Jailkeeper

.

Abilities:

• On night 1 and 3, you may jailkeep someone, roleblocking them and protecting them from kills

Win condition:

• You win if all threats to the town die and there still is a town-aligned player alive

Game thread is here. Please confirm by telling me your alignment and role. Clarify all questions you might have before it's too late

Welcome,

player

. You are

Town Backup Gunsmith

.

Abilities:

• You may not perform your ability until a Gunsmith dies
• Once you unlock your ability, you may each night, check if someone has a gun in flavor, a list of every role that has a gun may be found on the wiki (link to the article here

Win condition:

• You win if all threats to the town die and there still is a town-aligned player alive

Game thread is here. Please confirm by telling me your alignment and role. Clarify all questions you might have before it's too late

Welcome,

player

. You are

Town Novice 3-Shot Vigilante

.

Abilities:

• On any night after night 1, you may kill someone, you may only perform this action 3 times

Win condition:

• You win if all threats to the town die and there still is a town-aligned player alive

Game thread is here. Please confirm by telling me your alignment and role. Clarify all questions you might have before it's too late

Welcome,

Player

. You are

Vanilla Town

.

Win condition:

• You win if all threats to the town die and there still is a town-aligned player alive

Game thread is here. Please confirm by telling me your alignment and role. Clarify all questions you might have before it's too late

[/quote]

Welcome,

Player

. You are

Mafia Goon

.

Abilities:

• You have a factional nightkill. You may not perform this nightkill along other actions
• You may talk with your partners, Player and Player in the scum PT here.

Win condition:

• You win when only mafia members are left alive or nothing can prevent this

Game thread is here. Please confirm by telling me your alignment and role. Clarify all questions you might have before it's too late

Welcome,

Player

. You are

Mafia Gunsmith

.

Abilities:

• You may each night check if someone posesses a gun in flavor, a list of every role that posesses a gun may be found here
• You have a factional nightkill. You may not perform this nightkill along other actions
• You may talk with your partners, Player and Player in the scum PT here.

Win condition:

• You win when only mafia members are left alive or nothing can prevent this

Game thread is here. Please confirm by telling me your alignment and role. Clarify all questions you might have before it's too late

Welcome,

Player

. You are

Mafia 1-shot Activated Ascetic

.

Abilities:

• You may once during the game make yourself untargetable by non-killing actions for a night
• You have a factional nightkill. You may not perform this nightkill along other actions
• You may talk with your partners, Player and Player in the scum PT here.

Win condition:

• You win when only mafia members are left alive or nothing can prevent this

Game thread is here. Please confirm by telling me your alignment and role. Clarify all questions you might have before it's too late

gunsmith feedback

[TARGET] has a gun

[TARGET] doesn't have a gun

you didn't receive any results, your action failed



this role PM format is pain[/quote]

[Isis]

I can pass this

[Gypyx]

alright

[Gypyx]

uh on second thoughts, noraa did you put multitasking by default for scum?

[Isis]

I passed it without multitasking. I'm not interested in passing it with multitasking. I would be very concerned about gamestates where the ascetic ducks the JK night 3 while successfully performing a kill and gets fake soft cleared.

[Gypyx]

yeah alright

ascetic was more to hint scum of the vig while giving small utility anyways

[Noraa]

uh on second thoughts, noraa did you put multitasking by default for scum?

O_O I can remove that if its a problem.

[Gypyx]

it's kinda problematic yes

[Noraa]

So should I openly state that scum do not have multitasking?

[Gypyx]

They don't by default, but if you'd rather clarify go for it

[Noraa]

do they have multitasking when there's only one member left?

[Noraa]

Ig I could just take that rule out and let them figure it out themselves.

[Gypyx]

That's not a normal thing nope

And you could yeah