Mini Normal 2191 | Endgame


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Post Post #975 (ISO) » Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:32 am

Post by Umlaut »

It occurs to me that we know Fuzzy really does have a PR, whether town or scum, unless he pulled off the luckiest gambit ever by identifying Maxwell as not-PR.

So if Fuzzy is scum the setup is
  • 4x Vanilla Townie
  • 1x Town 2-Shot Cop
  • 1x Town Simple Doctor
  • 1x Town 1-Shot Neighborizer
  • 1x Mafia Multitasking Night 2 Roleblocker
  • 1x Mafia Investigative PR (maybe an actual Neapolitan, why not?)
That setup is... hunh. Not a whole lot of town power, really. For comparison, I think an ungated cop as the only PR is considered relatively balanced and this seems more scumsided than that; the cop is weaker, the scum have some counterplay against it, the neighborizer isn't really helpful and the doctor is
sort of
helpful but I don't think enough to make up for the otherwise weak town. Am I missing something here?
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and the other kind,
’ and those who
don’t
say. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs
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Post Post #976 (ISO) » Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:33 am

Post by Umlaut »

In post 975, Umlaut wrote:identifying Maxwell as not-PR
as not-VT, rather.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
and the other kind,
’ and those who
don’t
say. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs
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Post Post #977 (ISO) » Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:13 pm

Post by Umlaut »

No one has anything to say about this, then?
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
and the other kind,
’ and those who
don’t
say. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs
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Post Post #978 (ISO) » Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:04 pm

Post by Umlaut »

Just noticed the OP still says
In post 0, Sirius9121 wrote:
The game is in
Pregame
.
and felt the need to quote it for posterity
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
and the other kind,
’ and those who
don’t
say. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs
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Post Post #979 (ISO) » Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:45 pm

Post by maxwell »

In post 977, Umlaut wrote:No one has anything to say about this, then?
I guess not, trying to figure things out on setup spec has burnt me pretty bad -

oh, wait, if fuzzy is, say, a mafia rolecop, they'd know I wasn't able to protect cabd anyway, and suddenly the mafia's play yesterday makes sense. Lurker slot is kind of a typical rolecop target, too, which makes more sense than his explanation.
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Post Post #980 (ISO) » Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:54 pm

Post by Umlaut »

That's a point I didn't think of. Rolecop!Fuzzy
would
know that. So I suppose Cabd dying fits with either possibility... though that wasn't really a thing I was questioning? I was just saying that setup itself sounded scumsided.

Did you say who you protected last night, by the way?
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
and the other kind,
’ and those who
don’t
say. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs
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Post Post #981 (ISO) » Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:58 pm

Post by Umlaut »

I feel like both Maxwell's and Fuzzy's new role modifications are too convenient. Fuzzy's allows him to avoid giving a new result until lylo (when he' would presumably red-check Sam or something), and Maxwell's allows him to explain why he didn't stop the Cabd kill.

If the one of you who is town had just
told the whole story
about your role, I would pretty much auto-vote the other today when they tried to change it up. That's what you get for being coy.
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and the other kind,
’ and those who
don’t
say. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs
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Post Post #982 (ISO) » Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:02 pm

Post by maxwell »

I was on clidd, because he was conf town and like I said, I can't protect power roles.

I suppose that is a bit scumsided but it makes some degree of sense, I think? I've clearly gotten very it very wrong on setup spec arguments, though.
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Post Post #983 (ISO) » Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:04 pm

Post by maxwell »

In post 981, Umlaut wrote:I feel like both Maxwell's and Fuzzy's new role modifications are too convenient. Fuzzy's allows him to avoid giving a new result until lylo (when he' would presumably red-check Sam or something), and Maxwell's allows him to explain why he didn't stop the Cabd kill.

If the one of you who is town had just
told the whole story
about your role, I would pretty much auto-vote the other today when they tried to change it up. That's what you get for being coy.
This is understandable, but hopefully you at least understand why I chose to hide that role modifier? I didn't think outing it served potown utility, but I hadn't considered the possibility I'd simply been rolecopped (even though this is the ssecond time I've fallen for a bad vanilla cop claim)
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Post Post #984 (ISO) » Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:09 pm

Post by maxwell »

If I can firm up an answer and get a definite read on the last scum, I don't mind being voted today, can have a laugh with cabd about how stupid we were to tunnel each other.
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Post Post #985 (ISO) » Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:02 am

Post by samantha97 »

neapolitan does make sense as a mafia role, but also 'simple doctor' is the only power role that doesn't have x-shot claimed in this game

also setup would require I ignore posts so I'd rather do fuzzy tomorrow and concede to mafia umlaut
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Post Post #986 (ISO) » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:56 am

Post by TheFuzzylogic99 »

In post 979, maxwell wrote:
In post 977, Umlaut wrote:No one has anything to say about this, then?
I guess not, trying to figure things out on setup spec has burnt me pretty bad -

oh, wait, if fuzzy is, say, a mafia rolecop, they'd know I wasn't able to protect cabd anyway, and suddenly the mafia's play yesterday makes sense. Lurker slot is kind of a typical rolecop target, too, which makes more sense than his explanation.

what???? you straight up said that you would not protect Cabd. . All of a sudden when Cabd dies you throw out the idea that I am a role cop. You drastically modify your role. Doctor to simple doctor is a big drop. When Cabd dies you find a convenient excuse to defend the reason Cabd got killed when it was very likely that you were going to be checked as Cabd seems to leaning scum more toward you than me if I remember correctly.(need to be rechecked) Everything you done today is convenient as anything.
VOTE: Max
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Post Post #987 (ISO) » Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:02 am

Post by maxwell »

Is modifying your claim to be non-consecutive not equally as convenient? Why'd you leave that out when you first claimed?
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Post Post #988 (ISO) » Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:08 am

Post by maxwell »

If umlaut's progression on Maduisha is unusual, fuzzy's is downright non-existant.
In post 138, TheFuzzylogic99 wrote:Maduisha- As I stated it was just first thoughts. Scum like easy targets and since newbie are still adjusting to the new playstyle of a new site ( all mafia sites plays differently) it makes them easy targets. Scum also sometimes like to fish. That is to test the water to see if other players will join in the elimination.A lot of time they do it before voting. On the other hand, I could just be paranoid which for me is very possible.
In post 252, TheFuzzylogic99 wrote:
Dakoba
- the first few post of Koba were blah. 150 is okay I guess. I would like to hear what exactly the approach Zufy took that gave Koba the scum read. I like the pressure she is putting on Madisha here . I read Koba other posts and honestly, there was nothing there. I dont what to make out of her drop in quality
In post 271, TheFuzzylogic99 wrote:all my thoughts are based on page 5 and on....same as the above list

Umlaut

liking the push back on Zulfy here. This is something that needed clarity. is weak.
I am not getting why he is town reading Maduesha . If it because of her previous post there was nothing in particular that would push for a particular alignment. I found her post pretty null.
I think the read needs a better explanation. I would say the same thing about his strong town read on Clidd in . He seems to be interacting with Clidd a lot and I dont know if it because he trying to form a town alliance or if he just budddying him. feels a bit vague. what exactly about Clidds reads that he likes? 248 seems odd to me. He scum reads me then suddenly remember that in my old game I was lunchbait. Not sure what to make of this sudden revelation.
In post 879, TheFuzzylogic99 wrote:Intent to hammer.....

Maduessa seems like frustrated scum then frustrated townie. I been and seen both and from my experience, it seems like she the former more than the latter. I know this is WIFOM but I think that my gut is right on this

will hammer when Clidd is ready
In fact, he never bothers expressing a read on her at all until she's at E-1 and suddenly he's okay with hammering her. Didn't even address her when he was doing individual reads on everyone. Would say this looks like partner avoidance.
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Post Post #989 (ISO) » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:00 am

Post by maxwell »

I think mechanically, voting me today guarantees a 50/50 tomorrow so it's the "safe" vote but give me time to read everyone and make a final call. Fuzzy's drive-by vote is bothersome to me, though.
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Post Post #990 (ISO) » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:21 am

Post by maxwell »

I think, looking back at maduisha's ISO, it makes more sense for her push on fuzzy to be a bus, if we assume i was rolecopped and they knew I couldn't protect the cop, umlaut being scum makes less sense in terms of setup balance and a bus would be risky if it's assumed the cop gets a result. Maduisha mostly just safely townbinned Umlaut and argued with him a few times were with fuzzy she was null, needs to participate more, gave that weird read on him I highlighted that was a hedge, was very cautious around his claim.

Think the response to his claim here:
In post 495, Maduisha wrote:The only way I can work that logic is "it's fine if they cc me, they die the next day for lying." But it would only make sense if it means he is not willing to fight to get the liar eliminated instead...

@Fuzzy please address this whenever you come back.
In post 499, Maduisha wrote:I will vote wherever the majority does, but I still want to hear Fuzzy out if possible because of that confusing cc argument of his that is confusing me in terms of the logic that went through his mind when he typed it the way he did. It's giving me bad vibes combined with Cabd's role existing as I'm not used to PR heavy games or role type overlapping.

I don't really scumread Zulfy, but he's in my pool of weakest reads right now, so if it ends up being like that, I will support it.

I'd like the y/n answers from Nepenthe before the D1 turn ends, too...
Is something like wanting to maintain skepticism of fuzzy but not really push on him.

Maybe I'm crazy, but the push on him look like a bus, like she was trying to catch him out by being clever but it made her look worse instead because the reasoning didn't make sense:
In post 576, Maduisha wrote:Actually, wouldn't it have been more logical for Fuzzy to check whether Cabd was actually PR or lying, considering he made posts like this:
In post 523, TheFuzzylogic99 wrote:Maybe I am wrong but Cabd's claim seems like a bluff or a gambit atp . if that is true I dont know if that makes him town or scum. I would lean town as it would be a wierd gambit /bluff coming town. His action does not seem to match up with what one would expect from a player with that role. I guess he could be a JOAT but I have my doubts atm.
VOTE: TheFuzzylogic99

Why did you think an inactive slot was worth spending your action on instead of a player you were calling out for bluffing like this?

Legitimately the
only
explanation I can come up with for why she ignored the TvT tunneling between me and Cabd was because she wanted to be 'right' with her vote, otherwise why vote one town PR when the other two are fighting? My Guess is it was a bus.

I'll cite posts if you want support for what I'm saying about Maduisha's interactions but I think I'm okay with saying she was trying to bus fuzzy yesterday and he's the last scum.
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Post Post #991 (ISO) » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:28 am

Post by TheFuzzylogic99 »

Why are you pushing I am s role cop when you flat out said you were not going to protect Cabd and when i linked to the post
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Post Post #992 (ISO) » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:34 am

Post by Umlaut »

Hmm. If Maxwell flat out said he refuses to protect Cabd then he wouldn't need to also modify his claim today.

What do you actually conclude from his saying that, Fuzzy?
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and the other kind,
’ and those who
don’t
say. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs
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Post Post #993 (ISO) » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:36 am

Post by maxwell »

Yeah, blunder on my part, but also totally irrelevant, given I didn't say that until the day was ending - scum couldn't have known I wasn't going to do it in spite of my tunneling, unless they had investigated me and knew I couldn't, and from that perspective you bussing makes more sense than umlaut bussing. I can't evaluate people's actions based on things I was going to do in the future.
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Post Post #994 (ISO) » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:44 am

Post by TheFuzzylogic99 »

Also you have yet to accurately explain anything and keep pushing the narrative to me.

Second you are assiming things that fit your narrative. This all feels like a desperate attempt to get elimnted and set yourself with the win tommorow

Umlaut... Not sure.... Guessing it was to make sure all his bases were covered. Even if he is somehow town why claim this. His action do make sense at all and as i said he has done nothing to make people think he is town IMHO
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Post Post #995 (ISO) » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:44 am

Post by maxwell »

In post 763, maxwell wrote:Near absolute certain sam flips town and the game is fast-tracked to a loss when it happens.
Just for the record, I never make this post yesterday as scum when sam was placed at E-1. I know I later reversed my read and that's my bad, but if an opportunity to eliminate town comes up, I say, "sure, let's go for it" and hammer rather than making a stink about it only to freak out when the predictable outcome of my partner getting voted happens instead. I don't necessarily expect that to get believed but that's what we have the miseliminaion for. Just for the record, though: scum rarely ever plays the way I did, because they gain nothing from it.
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Post Post #996 (ISO) » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:47 am

Post by maxwell »

In post 994, TheFuzzylogic99 wrote:Also you have yet to accurately explain anything and keep pushing the narrative to me.
What haven't I "accurately explained"? I'm not "pushing a narrative", I'm speculating as to who the last scum is based on the info I have. You've only responded by making vague attacks and ignoring any of the points I'm making while just making arguments about my claim being "convenient". Tell me again why you didn't mention your non-consecutive modifier earlier?
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Post Post #997 (ISO) » Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:43 am

Post by samantha97 »

unless clidd has a strong opinion that umlaut is mafia the game is already decided anyway

I'll vote fuzzy if it'll end the day faster idc
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Post Post #998 (ISO) » Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:29 am

Post by TheFuzzylogic99 »

Unofficial Vote Count
Fuzzy Logic (1) Max
Max (2) - Sam , Fuzzy Logic

Max- You realize that you are using WIFOM.
Sam- are you trying to lynch scum or just vote to get the easiest lynch bc thats what your last post seems to point to. Honestly i dont like it at all.
VOTE: Sam

Unofficial Vote Count 1.1
Max-Sam
Fuzzy- Max
Sam- Fuzzy

Max is bad but Sam seems optitunist with her last post as she is waiting to get an easy mislim
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Post Post #999 (ISO) » Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:35 am

Post by maxwell »

In post 998, TheFuzzylogic99 wrote:Max- You realize that you are using WIFOM.
What??? Where? How does this address ANYTHING I have said? Why are you avoiding actually responding to my questions?
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