Mafiascum.net

More to do later, but a start: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Draft_Mafia

Also I'm going to run this over the memorial day weekend marathon, so wish me luck

welp, getting 13 peoples together for a marathon seems *quite* hard to me no? i mean, it could always be reduced, but something to think about

Yeah I think it will work fine 7:2 if I have to. Ircher did it for a Grandest Idea game though, so it's at least possible

The harder part is probably randing the setup during a marathon tbh. You should probably try to rand it in advance. Getting 9 players is mildly difficult but feasible, and some marathons have gotten 13 before.

Yeah I will probably code something to do it, tbh

You should make a physical deck of cards anything else is wrong.

I like this concept but dislike the role list for the record

Besides cop, what would you change? Also do you dislike it from a mechanical standpoint or a balance standpoint?

I really hate investigative that are >85 but <100 percent accurate so I don't like ninjas, godfathers, and framers in game design unless it's in an open setup where there is such an abundance of them that investigations start functioning similarly to PT cop guilties with convenient-or-not neighborhood claims and the like where maybe20-30% of the town has that sanity disruption going on and it's reasonable to ignore the mechanic and follow social deduction occassionally. 1/104 cards as godfather is either one too many or far far too few.

What if I told you that the odds that scum has godfather in their first pack is ~14% and the odds that they have godfather or framer in their first pack is about 27%? And that doesn't account for them being in packs that are passed to them (which is controlled obviously.) It's a pretty real thing you have to play around I think, though you could definitely make an argument that towns wouldn't because they see 1/104 instead of 65/104. I could turn the godfather into 1-shot lawyer and then I would feel comfortable having 2 framers and 2 lawyers. The goal of the godfather is not really to allow scum to screw with all the results but to force town to acknowledge the investigations are not 100% and play around them, so if there needs to be more roles for that to be the case I'm down with it. If there's 2 framers and 2 lawyers, the odds that scum gets one in one of their first packs is 46%(!). I kinda like that idea anyway because godfather is low skill compared to lawyer and we are making town be skilled to use their PRs for the most part.

Don't check my math, I was a bit lazy and treated the events as independent when they aren't really (if you get a framer in a scum pack there are then fewer spots for lawyers) but they are close enough to illustrate the point.

It's disingenuous to multiply by 3 for the probability of the entire scumteam having a godfather because a cop check looks at an individual slot. It's 4.8%. Using 14% assumes the scum magically move the godfather card to the scummiest player on their team right before the cop check resolves and they don't.

I guess you're saying Godfather lasts the whole game, I thought it was a 1-shot active to match the rest of the setup, so that's about five times as much godfathering as I expected, but not nearly enough to make me happy.

Idk this setup has so much potential to be very very broadly, broadly appealing and you want to shoehorn in multiple roles that have been banned from the normal queue over the year for negative player experiences and find ways to make them workable when you could be making up more draft specific roles if the list wasn't already diverse enough. Generally people prefer when cop insanity creates false guilties instead of false innocents because ignoring high confidence false innocents in a social deduction game where most people are actually innocent is the most stressful of cases.

Ok I thought about this some more and I decided the best thing is actually just to cut cops altogether as a lot of people don't like them in any situation anyway. If someone wants cops (with godfathers and framers or without) then they can just make a cop pack. I think this is a good change, so thanks

I also cut ninjas, because I agree there are places where that can ruin an endgame. Scum has been given more power in the form of role blockers and strongman shots, and town got another detective and psychologist.

But what about the gunsmith doctor interaction? I think there's enough doc shots where town is forced to play around this and it means there are interesting implications for anyone who has picked up a doc shot. But it is a false innocent, so I'm curious what you think.

When you frame it like that I definitely see putting the investigation integrity roles into a booster pack that can be mod discretion added as a net positive change.

I'm also personally biased to protectives being far more interesting than investigatives, but that's a preference thing and I feel like I'm probably in the minority there.

There's enough doctors in the default pack that gunsmith is like o.k. Fake guilties are better than fake innocents, but either kind are better when they stay away from 90% confidence range and there are so many doctors here that the gunsmith innocents should be weaker than 90%.

This setup temps me to run a game that's not a micro!

I would be very happy if you did that

If you pick a 1-shot doc and use the shot, are you still a 1-shot doc? Or have you "played the role" and no longer have it? This matters for things like gunsmith and rolecop. I'm basically looking for whatever is more natural here (which I am assuming is a permanent role change regardless of shots available) but if anyone disagrees I'm interested to hear.

Confusing interactions have hopefully been clarified on the wiki, but if anyone thinks of any more let me know.

In post 68, MURDERCAT wrote:If you pick a 1-shot doc and use the shot, are you still a 1-shot doc? Or have you "played the role" and no longer have it? This matters for things like gunsmith and rolecop. I'm basically looking for whatever is more natural here (which I am assuming is a permanent role change regardless of shots available) but if anyone disagrees I'm interested to hear.

P sure this interaction already exists in the normal queue due to Doc JOATS that do count as docs after

Intuitively it'd work differently to me, since you're drafting it and becoming a doc for that night and you didn't start as a doc.

By that logic the rolecop would always see vanilla townie

No, because the gunsmith would get an inno on the doctor the night they use the doctor

If I'm the only one who has this intuition you shouldn't design the rules around that though

Yeah this is what I was thinking about. I think it makes sense to frame it as picking role modifiers rather than putting roles into your "hand." That's more consistent with passive roles too. But I'm glad I asked, curious what others think