Open 811 - Lovers and Losers [Day 1]

[Vex Vience]

Anastasia and Kerset

Both have displayed signs of having independent agendas without seeking approval and synergy with the partner within the pairings (lacking live day-chat and wanting badly to scumhunt from the get-go results in this) as well as dedication to voting off a scumread that entails willingness to be voted off first or afterwards.

Did you just judge my synergy with Ana, before my appearance?

If you flip it around, yes.

Ana would wait to make such aove and definitely before keeping it going if you were scum together, that's why I townread you two very hard, she kept wanting to vote me through to elimination no matter what I did and only rethought things ironically after I said vote me off and then vote Vex off but that is actually a Towntell to unvote there because Scum is likely to keep tunneling me or after unvoting would turn on the other pair, she just unvoted and stopped posting, indicating genuine authentic confusion and hesitation.

or, get this, maybe both town *and* scum would be confused by the fact you wanted to be eliminated after claiming lover, and when your lover hadn’t posted very much at all? like, i don’t get your logic here at all.

[Vex Vience]

im also currently at work still, so that’s why im posting sporadically anf out of order

[Bingle]

also what the fuck is this post? maybe kerset hadn’t checked the thread yet? you’re assuming these things are townie when there’s another explanation to them that makes more sense

?

RM is assuming that kerset hadn't checked the thread and is saying that Ana being willing to engage as heavily as she did without Kerset's support is a towntell. I disagree, since ime very few people actually coordinate in scum PTs instead of playing an individual game, but you're clearly missing the thrust of his argument.

[Bingle]

The rest of their story feels sus to me still

What part?

[Bingle]

So... I think it's fairly obvious that LF thinks he found a setup exploit. Regardless of whether he did or not, do you think he shares the setup exploit as scum?

I wasn't asking this to hear myself think, I'd actually like answers.

[Vex Vience]

also what the fuck is this post? maybe kerset hadn’t checked the thread yet? you’re assuming these things are townie when there’s another explanation to them that makes more sense

?

RM is assuming that kerset hadn't checked the thread and is saying that Ana being willing to engage as heavily as she did without Kerset's support is a towntell. I disagree, since ime very few people actually coordinate in scum PTs instead of playing an individual game, but you're clearly missing the thrust of his argument.

maybe i am, but the argument doesn’t make very much sense to me anyways.
while i’m here, sell to me the fact your lover is town. i’m making a scum case for them, so i wanna see your side of it

[Vex Vience]

So... I think it's fairly obvious that LF thinks he found a setup exploit. Regardless of whether he did or not, do you think he shares the setup exploit as scum?

I wasn't asking this to hear myself think, I'd actually like answers.

imo yes, because if he says he found it and doesn’t share, we wagon them so they have to share it, and even then, the wagon would probably go through anyways depending on how many people, not to mention they’re single
also because if you’re scum and you share that, odds are you get hard-cleared and deepwolf to melo and win from there

[Bingle]

while i’m here, sell to me the fact your lover is town. i’m making a scum case for them, so i wanna see your side of it

Nothing he's done has actually had a scum motivation? He's barking at squirrels, but it's pretty easy to see that he thinks the squirrels are scum indicative.

Read his ISO and tell me that any of what he's said comes from someone who doesn't 100% believe himself to be right, regardless of whether he is or is not right.

[T-Bone]

Just to center the game for me tomorrow morning when I am reading over morning tea (or energy drink depending on how much sleep I get) before remoting in to work

Lovers:

Jingle-RM
VV-Bambi
Ana-Kers

VT:

Me
Tbone
Klick

Every lover pair needs to summarize their pre-game topic immediately in as much detail as possible that still avoids modkill. To the extent where if you dont you die because of something that im really hoping scum is just realizing.

You all are making me hate this game by the end of the fourth page...

@Tbone - You scum or can we do list mod powers unite and figure this one out?

Liar we're lovers.

O.O

[Bingle]

So... I think it's fairly obvious that LF thinks he found a setup exploit. Regardless of whether he did or not, do you think he shares the setup exploit as scum?

I wasn't asking this to hear myself think, I'd actually like answers.

imo yes, because if he says he found it and doesn’t share, we wagon them so they have to share it, and even then, the wagon would probably go through anyways depending on how many people, not to mention they’re single
also because if you’re scum and you share that, odds are you get hard-cleared and deepwolf to melo and win from there

Why out that he's found a setup exploit at all? Do you think LF thinks someone else is likely to have picked up on the fact the scum sample roles only have one PT link?

[T-Bone]

Anyway I lock town read VV and Bambi. I think the solve is probably Ana/Kerset and then one of Klick/Llama based on 10 pages.

The reason I scumread Ana/Kerset is for this nonsense right here lol

That's actually not helpful in this setup, but my gut is that you're town for it. Congrats.

Okay doubling down is kinda weird.

Oh no, claiming is fine. It's the framing it as this great game-solving move that is super weird.

Double down was the wrong term. Overselling is what I was going for.

I feel you. I get it, easy instinct to have.

Wtf is this appearance? No vote, nothing to work with. Just some mechtalk and disappearance.
VOTE: T-Bone

lol this is what, 15 hours into the game? Please.

VV and Bambi are both pretty obvous town in their posting at this point. RM is being anti-town overall, but I get the feeling based on Bingle's description of their private interaction, RM thinks way too highly of himself as a player, and that's why he's posting the way he's posting. It definitely rubs people the wrong way. But kudos to Bingle and RM if they planned this dissonance, it has me fooled atm.

[Vex Vience]

while i’m here, sell to me the fact your lover is town. i’m making a scum case for them, so i wanna see your side of it

Nothing he's done has actually had a scum motivation? He's barking at squirrels, but it's pretty easy to see that he thinks the squirrels are scum indicative.

Read his ISO and tell me that any of what he's said comes from someone who doesn't 100% believe himself to be right, regardless of whether he is or is not right.

so you think his “elim me then ana” thing before you had a chance to post and his 180 from me being town to suddenly me being scum comes from town?

[Vex Vience]

give me a few to dry myself off and get onto my laptop and i’ll pull up specific quotes i think aren’t townie

[Bingle]

But kudos to Bingle and RM if they planned this dissonance, it has me fooled atm.

FWIW, I knew the dissonance would happen pregame. We wouldn't have had to plan it. It's just a personality thing.

[Vex Vience]

I informed Bingle

that we don't talk past D1's

start as Bingle asked it in the PT and I'd already asked, it was a passing comment among the bigger discussion

hang on, really quickly, as i'm looking through rm's post: "we don't talk past d1s start"
that strikes me as really weird? like, i'd expect it to be phrased as "we can't talk past d1's start" not "we don't talk past d1s start"?
i want everyone's opinion on this as well

[Vex Vience]

Spoiler: lots of quotes

Sure it implies that but you knowing that amd answering so rapidly makes me Townread you now. I am also a lover and my partner I will keep secret for now unless you want me to out him/her/them.

It says that yes, it doesn't say you can't talk further than that.

Rapidly, correctly and even got angry that I'd tedt yoy woth something yoy found trivial for scum to solve. It is all towny

2) i didn't get angry. i don't know where you're getting that from.
3) obviously i'd answer correctly even if i was scum, because if i didn't i'd instantly out the fact i'm scum.

none of this implicates me as town as well. this is all just nai.

Not sure how to reply that you seemed angry and aggressive without indirectly insulting your self-awareness but let's say I'm wrong.

In my wrong interpretation of your response to me, you were aggressive, upset that I'd ask what you find so easy and now furthermore hostile towards me because I townread you for said reaction.

It is indeed alignment indicative, your aggression is what Town has in this setup more than Scum. Town is panicking and alert because it os the equivalent of complete darkness in an environment where only scum has night vosion goggles and unloke other setups, not a single bit of that vision will in any shape or form become passively clearer as things progress via investigation results. This meams Town feels much more pressure to do something and hunt while Scum wants the game as laid-back as possible.

I don't understand Ana's reasoning at all, I believe she's the fake pair at present.

However I don't like Bambi's entry at all, it seems designed to make me feel soothed and remain hostile to the Anastasia lover pair instead

Ok vote me out idgaf, enjoy the loss if you're town and never ever vote someone on this bullshit reasoning again. If you're scum well dome you won by BS reasoning, that is if you aren't voted out next. Do it, vote me, I won't gamethrow amd vote myself.

Vote me. I don't want to be in this shit situation later on where clearly everyone is biased and too incapable to read to townread me and bingle based on bias, better to eliminate me with the free miselimination

This isn't WIFOM eliminate me right now and then eliminate Anastasia's pair, she deserves to lose wothe if Town pushing for no fucking reason

I informed Bingle that we don't talk past D1's start as Bingle asked it in the PT and I'd already asked, it was a passing comment among the bigger discussion

Anastasia pretends to nit understand why I'd panic as a Lover who has someone else dying with me in a setup where only five votes are required to vote me out when two are against me and one of them is a non-lover.

I am now extremely certain I was wrong, when you vote me out vote Vex and Bambi after me. I was incorrect. Anastasia is being cleverly pitted against me and Bambi and Vex are feigning hesitation to justify thebvote one and disassociate later

VOTE: Vex Vince

Ana's pair is the town pair with me and bingle, Vex and Bambi are laughing in scum chat olaying both sides of this, it's very blatant.

I am absolutely certain of this read now.

We aren't friends here, one of our pairs directly wants the others to lose. Stop this act. I don't respect any of you less than any other. You're all trash and all amazing in your own ways, I focus on tells and indication of scum. If I think you're scum, I'll vote a d encourage others to. Idc if I reapect your lover partner like a god, I vote you.

Bambi is trying to seem inquisitive and understanding but if you properly analyse it, it's just positioning the pair of Vex and Bambi perfectly so both lover pairs Ana vs Rational can get voted off.


I have excellent grammar in real life. I rush to type on a smartphone at times here, I also like it as it forces people to read what I'm saying a little harder while deciphering it.

We aren't friends here, one of our pairs directly wants the others to lose. Stop this act. I don't respect any of you less than any other. You're all trash and all amazing in your own ways, I focus on tells and indication of scum. If I think you're scum, I'll vote a d encourage others to. Idc if I reapect your lover partner like a god, I vote you.

Bambi is trying to seem inquisitive and understanding but if you properly analyse it, it's just positioning the pair of Vex and Bambi perfectly so both lover pairs Ana vs Rational can get voted off.


I have excellent grammar in real life. I rush to type on a smartphone at times here, I also like it as it forces people to read what I'm saying a little harder while deciphering it.

1) why is pushing someone who appears to be scummy wanting the others to lose? isn't that the entire point of mafia? to find the scum and push them? yes, obviously not all town will be perfectly townie, and not all scum will be scummy. but trying to push a scumread isn't gamethrowing like you're equating.
2) i really don't like all the spelling errors, because that means i have to take more time to actually figure out what you're saying. no offense to you, but if i'm spending a significant part of my time while reading the game simply trying to figure out what you're saying, i'm going to want to policy yeet you *just* so i don't have to read your stuff.

Yoy didn't push me, you played the middle and still are. Anastasia pushed me even after I said I was willing to go down, meaning it probably does add up that her read was genuine and she was ready to hard-gamble on it. Also Anastasia's responses were solely designed towards further getting others to scumread me which is Towny tunneling, not scummy tunneling as she knew very well if I flip Town how it looks on her. I also like that she did all this without her lover partner being around or backing her up, it is a very Towny dynamic where the Lover pair are running on independent initatives whereas you and Bambi seem artificially united in all ways.

all of these posts i struggle to see how town gets to this conclusion. like, i'm not following this entire thought process of "vex is town, ana is scum" to "i don't like bambi, but i still like vex" to a sudden "ok elim me then" after their scumread pushes them with zero chance of actually being elim'd in that moment to all of the sudden "ok i was wrong after some posts completely irrelevant to who the scum lover is—vex is now scum and ana has to be town"

[Vex Vience]

like, i don't actually see how town can get to that conclusion *this* early in the game

[T-Bone]

People who think highly of their own abilities also tend to do irrational things in the name of being confident in their abilities. It's NAI at best, to be honest imo

[Kerset]

lol this is what, 15 hours into the game? Please

Yea, you struggle as scum and got no idea what to do.

[T-Bone]

Like I know I can be frustratingly (to other people) coy at times, personally.

[T-Bone]

lol this is what, 15 hours into the game? Please

Yea, you struggle as scum and got no idea what to do.

friendo I'm a top kek scum player plz

[Kerset]

I informed Bingle

that we don't talk past D1's

start as Bingle asked it in the PT and I'd already asked, it was a passing comment among the bigger discussion

hang on, really quickly, as i'm looking through rm's post: "we don't talk past d1s start"
that strikes me as really weird? like, i'd expect it to be phrased as "we can't talk past d1's start" not "we don't talk past d1s start"?
i want everyone's opinion on this as well

I have excellent grammar in real life. I rush to type on a smartphone at times here, I also like it as it forces people to read what I'm saying a little harder while deciphering it.

[Vex Vience]

So... I think it's fairly obvious that LF thinks he found a setup exploit. Regardless of whether he did or not, do you think he shares the setup exploit as scum?

I wasn't asking this to hear myself think, I'd actually like answers.

imo yes, because if he says he found it and doesn’t share, we wagon them so they have to share it, and even then, the wagon would probably go through anyways depending on how many people, not to mention they’re single
also because if you’re scum and you share that, odds are you get hard-cleared and deepwolf to melo and win from there

Why out that he's found a setup exploit at all? Do you think LF thinks someone else is likely to have picked up on the fact the scum sample roles only have one PT link?

1) like you said, llama thinks they found one. why lie about it if you're town or scum? i already said why scum and town would do it.
2) if anyone, it would've been me who would've. i didn't care that much about reading the scum pms because i was more concerned with figuring out mech play before the game started, plus i had work so i wasn't able to really sit down and read the game

[Vex Vience]

I informed Bingle

that we don't talk past D1's

start as Bingle asked it in the PT and I'd already asked, it was a passing comment among the bigger discussion

hang on, really quickly, as i'm looking through rm's post: "we don't talk past d1s start"
that strikes me as really weird? like, i'd expect it to be phrased as "we can't talk past d1's start" not "we don't talk past d1s start"?
i want everyone's opinion on this as well

I have excellent grammar in real life. I rush to type on a smartphone at times here, I also like it as it forces people to read what I'm saying a little harder while deciphering it.

grammar doesnt matter in this context kerset. it's the phrasing that matters.

[Bingle]

so you think his “elim me then ana” thing before you had a chance to post and his 180 from me being town to suddenly me being scum comes from town?

I mean... I know it comes from town. I'm an informed party.

I think it's ridiculous, but that doesn't make it any less true.

The question is, does that progression come from scum any more often than it comes from town? To which I think the answer is pretty obvious. If someone is aggressive enough to have the thought as scum they're equally likely to have the thought as town.