Scum Pooky saving a buddy doesn't lead to scum Pooky being able to and choosing to do the same in ever scenario. I don't understand why you're acting like Emily could always save FL there because I don't think she could.
No and again you misconstrue my point. I believe town!you would agree with my stances and find a way to explain why my conclusions aren’t justified and actually find valid reasons to hang Pooky with but interpreting very clear townie behavior as scummy isn’t the way to convince me.
If Pooky was scum here, you would have no trouble finding those legit cracks in my reads because practically no one plays a perfect scum game - meaning that they obviously can’t because it would be anti-wincon. I’m saying if he was actually scum here, instead of dismissing my logic, you’d find the missing pieces of evidence that I’ve overlooked and be triumphantly swinging at him - similar to how Pyro did to Dunn. Pyro found the smoking gun that confiscumed Dunn but you can’t do that to Emily because it just doesn’t exist.
In post 1548, Hopkirk wrote:Atm it feels like you're trying to justify why you're voting me in he situation where you're wrong, buy are confident you're right. I don't care about the outcome, so if that's the case (you're say 80% confident) then I'd much prefer you hammer now
I don't see what you're TRing from Emily. It all seems to be ATE with the absence of literally anything else. I don't think you ever addressed the stuff I disliked about Robert. Self hammers very much annoy me. I've been active in elo for fairly obvious reasons. I sheeped a lot in hectic Vs FL, and any games I've played with hectic
See it’s posts like these I dislike. I’ve explained my reasons and you just keep invalidating them for reasons that don’t make sense to me.
Why is Emily’s hammer an attempt to get tr and not an actual indication that she’s town? It’s a straight up confibiased read from you, which you wouldn’t do if you were in my exact position here.
If you were trying to decide between me and Pooky, I very much doubt that would be your take.
What logic am I 'dismissing' that doesn't also include 'Hop is scum'. I am disagreeing with your conclusions and the reasons for them and to keep saying it in vague terms. Lay out a list of things I'm dismissing if you want direct responses to a list
In post 1549, Hopkirk wrote:If you're saying Emily isn't being self pittying here then self pittying is a bad/misleading way of phrasing it and you need to think of a better one. If you've got a different definition then let me know
He hasn’t done that here and he didn’t do that in either DC or Royalty. 960 was somewhat of an exception because the entire town wanted to miselim him despite his like gazillion attempts to towncase himself, which continued to get ignored.
I've explained why Emily's hammer is an an attempt to get TR and not a genuine one so many times
- because scum!Emily looks a lot worse by not bussing to the extent she's going to be exiled
- it was rushed in a way that came off as weird. me/hem/Vanders all agree with this
In post 1549, Hopkirk wrote:If you're saying Emily isn't being self pittying here then self pittying is a bad/misleading way of phrasing it and you need to think of a better one. If you've got a different definition then let me know
He hasn’t done that here and he didn’t do that in either DC or Royalty. 960 was somewhat of an exception because the entire town wanted to miselim him despite his like gazillion attempts to towncase himself, which continued to get ignored.
What are you talking about, pooky was town in both of those games
What was this post meant to mean? It doesn't address my quote (what are you saying 'self pittying' Pooky looks like)
In post 1554, Hopkirk wrote:Loki there's literally no way to dispute the premise that 'Pooky will never bus as scum'.
I've explained the incentives to do so
I've shown why the meta is overstated
I've explained why this game is likely to be an exception (secret alt)
What are your 'stances.' like seriously, if your 'stance' is that Pooky wouldn't bus as scum then you can't expect me to agree with that
Why did you tr Vanders for having an antibussing meta then? See another thing. You are saying the exact same thing being town indicative for Vanders isn’t for Pooky. So why is it true for one but not the other?
If you thought antibussing metareads were bad, then why do it for Vanders?
In post 1557, Hopkirk wrote:I've explained why Emily's hammer is an an attempt to get TR and not a genuine one so many times
- because scum!Emily looks a lot worse by not bussing to the extent she's going to be exiled
- it was rushed in a way that came off as weird. me/hem/Vanders all agree with this
Yes and I explained why I disagree also many times. Had Flow actually flipped town, I’d probably agree with this but he didn’t and monkey didn’t have an opportunity to weigh in on that post-Flow flip, so his opinion on that isn’t useful.
As I said twice last night and can quote if you want
- There's two types of bus.
1- actively pushing a wagon by giving reasons for it and hard SRing the slot
2- joining a wagon you think is going to go through for the towncred
1 is what Vanders did because they cased the slot and hard pushed it and said they weren't moving. It's the casing/pushing a partner that I think Vanders wouldn't do
2 is what I'm saying about Emily, and what would also apply to scum!hop here presumably
There's a clear difference between a vote for towncred and hard pushing a partner. Emily's vote here feels the exact same as my crappy bus on w&p in hectic Vs nancy
In post 1557, Hopkirk wrote:I've explained why Emily's hammer is an an attempt to get TR and not a genuine one so many times
- because scum!Emily looks a lot worse by not bussing to the extent she's going to be exiled
- it was rushed in a way that came off as weird. me/hem/Vanders all agree with this
Yes and I explained why I disagree also many times. Had Flow actually flipped town, I’d probably agree with this but he didn’t and monkey didn’t have an opportunity to weigh in on that post-Flow flip, so his opinion on that isn’t useful.
I assume you mean the second point here.
Reread HEm, they're saying it's weird regardless of the flip.
Vanders is saying the same.
Andante was SRing Robert D1 so town can clearly dislike Robert
You've been saying for ages how weird it is youve been left alive when every night a slot that's wanted to push Emily the next day has been the one to die
In post 1406, Hopkirk wrote:loki is still alive at endgame because Vanders said repeatedly in their last posts they would 100% always vote you and you couldn't take that into lylo. it's not as complicated/wifomy as you're trying to present it. if i was scum i'd always kill Loki here
See I don’t see why this makes any sense. Because we’re in a hood and my townflip would put more suspicion on you. Why? Because Vanders knows he’s in a town/town hood obviously and why would scum!you kill the slot that’s been hard tr you all game?
Vanders said. if I die kill Emily, so what if he didn’t die? Do you not think he’d re-evaluate her in light of that? If Emily kills me doesn’t that look far better for her than killing Vanders?
One of us flipping doesn't make the other look worse.it makes the other look better because the Ayer best placed to read them hard TR them and presumably Vanders would factor that in addition to already hard SRing her
Like what kill does Emily make that doesn't result in one-two player who was lockscum on her being in the lylo. There isn't one. No matter who she kills either you or vanders or both are in lylo
In post 1562, Hopkirk wrote:As I said twice last night and can quote if you want
- There's two types of bus.
1- actively pushing a wagon by giving reasons for it and hard SRing the slot
2- joining a wagon you think is going to go through for the towncred
1 is what Vanders did because they cased the slot and hard pushed it and said they weren't moving. It's the casing/pushing a partner that I think Vanders wouldn't do
2 is what I'm saying about Emily, and what would also apply to scum!hop here presumably
There's a clear difference between a vote for towncred and hard pushing a partner. Emily's vote here feels the exact same as my crappy bus on w&p in hectic Vs nancy
But she instahammered Flow while monkey was still getting caught up. Why the rush? W&P were not savable and Dunn was in an extremely strong postion until Pyro inadvertently unearthed that smoking gun.
W&P weren’t starting to look better, they were looking dead in the water and you hardpushed Clidd for really bad reasons, you didn’t push Dunn and there’s only two scum in this game.
If Vanders dies - Emily argues why didn't Loki die when they hard TR hop?
If Loki dies - Emily argues why didn't Vanders die when they hard SR her
Like it's the same logic for either kill. Either one she's going into the lylo knowing the wincon involves changing someone's mind. I was intentionally understating my lockdown of you in the thread to increase the chance someone wouldn't kill you earlier (so it looks more like I could be swayed into voting you), for all the good it did since apparently your meta TR on me being outside my range seems to have disappeared
I hard pushed clidd for intentionally bad reasons btw. I wanted you to conclude that was me fake pushing a partner rather than genuinely trying to get clues exiled which is why I was holding back. I couldn't push him for good reasons because then the associative s make him far more town on my flip.
As in we needed clidd to be exiled after me (clidd and Kidam, so it worked 50%) so it needed to look like I was fake pushing a partner and trying to make it look genuine
W&P I was bussing way before it looked bad for them because you have to be crazy not to sheep hectic when he's obvtowning and efforting in his scumhunting
In post 1565, Hopkirk wrote:One of us flipping doesn't make the other look worse.it makes the other look better because the Ayer best placed to read them hard TR them and presumably Vanders would factor that in addition to already hard SRing her
Like what kill does Emily make that doesn't result in one-two player who was lockscum on her being in the lylo. There isn't one. No matter who she kills either you or vanders or both are in lylo
Except that Vanders never claimed to hard tr you like I did. Emily had to know that what actually happened right in the beginning of elo would obviously happen. She was aware how wedded I was to my hard tr of you. Vanders might have changed his mind if it was me who died instead of him. It’s the same reason why I thought Andante kill pointed to Flow but not Mo, it’s pretty much scum suicide.
The Rush would be
- to prevent other hammers (Mo was an erratic player, Mo might have)
- she genuinely didn't think the hammer looked bad
- she has to say something there. She doesn't need to hammer, but a hammer looks better than saying 'i support the wagon but not voting yet' which is essentially an intent that she can't take back
Both involve a hard read that Emily doesn't want to let into endgame.
Your last post acted like something I just said was wrong and it objectively wasn't.
I don't think the close to 100 posts I made last night and today is something I could possibly do as scum. Like it's more effort than I put into the whole game of Hectic Vs Nancy and WSB combined. I'm way outside of my scumrange right now
