Micro 1009: Would You Like To Be My Neighbor? [Game Over!]

[Loki Dokie]

it feels like you're trolling me there

You know that’s not true. :/

[Hopkirk]

i've answered that question at least four times tonight. i'm done with this

[Hopkirk]

i actually feel like self hammering right now

[Hopkirk]

i don't think i intend to post in the game any more because you're repeatedly telling me i'm 'dismissing' your arguments or 'reading it wrong' or showing that you clearly aren't accepting basic logical flows like in 1522

[Hopkirk]

you're asking me questions about things that i've explained at least three-five times already. if you didn't like it before but didn't explain why you didn't understand/agree with it then i'm wasting my time here

[Loki Dokie]

for i think the sixth time

- if Emily did not hammer she would have had to push someone else
- we have established and agreed multiple times that Mo was suspicious for pushing other people over Emily
- from this, if Emily did not hammer and hence pushed other people, that reason for sussing Flow would have also applied to Emily

But she didn’t and that slot flipped scum. Why didn’t she try to pivot the wagon to Mo then? Scum!Pooky is extremely adept at doing exactly that. He was nominated in PYP for getting the almost certain hammer on SS switched to mena. And in Isis’ game, he convinced everyone that Ydrasse was scum. Why wouldn’t he have tried that here?

But instead he quickhammers his buddy instead of trying to redirect the wagon? Why?

[Loki Dokie]

i don't think i intend to post in the game any more because you're repeatedly telling me i'm 'dismissing' your arguments or 'reading it wrong' or showing that you clearly aren't accepting basic logical flows like in 1522

I wish could switch places with Vanders rn. Do you have any idea how hard this is for me?

[Hopkirk]

Let's do it piece by piece.

Do you accept that if Pooky tried and failed to redirect the wagon then he would have looked bad for the same reason that Mo did?

[Loki Dokie]

for i think the sixth time

- if Emily did not hammer she would have had to push someone else
- we have established and agreed multiple times that Mo was suspicious for pushing other people over Emily
- from this, if Emily did not hammer and hence pushed other people, that reason for sussing Flow would have also applied to Emily

Why did she have to hammer at the specific time that she did? It was nowhere even close to deadline?

[Loki Dokie]

Let's do it piece by piece.

Do you accept that if Pooky tried and failed to redirect the wagon then he would have looked bad for the same reason that Mo did?

Yes but how is that even in the same ballpark as an insta hammer?

[Loki Dokie]

Emily, please get in here.

[Hopkirk]

question 2 of 3

You have argued - contrary to any available evidence - that Emily was next if she didn’t,

given you accept that trying and failing to redirect the wagon would have made Emily more suspicious, would Emily have been at risk of being the next exile (or the exile after that)

[Hopkirk]

Question 3 assumes you say yes because we voted Mo in a big part for that.

Question 3 is do you disagree that this is evidence that Emily was very likely to be next (or the one after that)
'You have argued - contrary to any available evidence - that Emily was next if she didn’t'

[Hopkirk]

for i think the sixth time

- if Emily did not hammer she would have had to push someone else
- we have established and agreed multiple times that Mo was suspicious for pushing other people over Emily
- from this, if Emily did not hammer and hence pushed other people, that reason for sussing Flow would have also applied to Emily

Why did she have to hammer at the specific time that she did? It was nowhere even close to deadline?

because Flow was at L-1 and she needed to take a stance
if she chooses not to hammer then either

1- she has to push something else and if it fails she loses
2- someone else hammers and she loses (HEM/Mo could also hammer there)
3- she has to hope the wagon falls apart which i think it was clear it wouldn't (this option assumes that you decide to vote someone other than Flow there, despite me and Vanders being in agreement)

the hammer made her look townier than any of those options because you are townleaning her based on it. that's why she chose to hammer. because she had a motivation which has actively paid off.
+ because she didn't think option 1 would work (this would be the only reasonable alternative)

[Hopkirk]

i'm going to be leaving now because i've stayed up an hour and a half later than i intended to and it's half one in the morning and i have plans tomorrow

[Emily]

what do you need from me dear?

[Emily]

I think it's pretty clear from your understanding of my scum meta that I am very very good at getting mis-elims when I am scum.

In the Isis game infinity didn't have to do much, just watch me mis-elim all the townies for her.

This is pretty much true in every scum game I play.

I don't really try to eliminate my teammates unless it's like elo or I am trying to distance while getting eliminated or whatever.

I can tell you with no doubt that if I had replaced into this slot and it was scum, that I could easily flip the elimination from flow onto someone else and then eliminate yet another townie for the win.

You have seen me play scum, I am mostly ruthless and very good at killing townies and setting up my partners to endgame if I should mess up.

I do not do bussing as a matter of pride if anything else.

[Emily]

I can tell you that you will be happier to hammer scum!hopkirk rather than town!emily here.

I am sorry I didn't try harder for you. If I knew you were you I would've probably not messed around this game and tried harder to help you win.

and if you choose wrong I promise to never mention this game again or provide you with the support you need after the game is over, whichever you prefer.

[Emily]

The TM game. Emily can probably respond to this better but you’re not explaining why it’s this game, Pooky suddenly inexplicably busses here and you’re not addressing my points. Monkey voted me because he thought Flow was town. Mo hard defended Flow. Vanders had doubts and Flow’s posting right before that hammer wasn’t bad. If I’m scum!Emily here, I try to read the crowd and see if Flow is possibly savable and I don’t hammer unless I think it’s completely hopeless and I don’t have a no bussing meta, although I personally won’t unless I feel I absolutely have to.

exactly.

Mo townread Flow and would help Flow.

Monkey was on Flow's side as well.

I have a clear path to save flow if I am the partner as I'm undecided.

The person who wouldn't survive if they sided with flow there is Hopkirk since he already committed himself to your side and it would look shady as all hell for him to flip flop.

[Loki Dokie]

I can tell you that you will be happier to hammer scum!hopkirk rather than town!emily here.

I am sorry I didn't try harder for you. If I knew you were you I would've probably not messed around this game and tried harder to help you win.

and if you choose wrong I promise to never mention this game again or provide you with the support you need after the game is over, whichever you prefer.

Well you understood what’s hard is not just being the deciding vote in Elo but that there’s personal feelings involved, so obviously it’s hard to have Hopkirk upset with me when I had been thinking we were in a masonry all game but yeah, everything points to you being town here. I will do a bit more rereading but I don’t see dragging this out much more will do any good and yes your posts definitely help. If you left me to do this all by myself, I might just cave from the pressure and I honestly don’t think I can handle much more of it.

Like it’s like ironically my trying to save Hopkirk and push Gypyx. It made absolutely no sense to do that unless I was town. Ultimately, play is the deciding factor in almost every game or absolutely should be. Flow might have escaped had you not hammered him. Scum almost never does things that are anti-wincon like that. And the best play for scum!you is to keep Flow alive as long as possible because you’d need two less miselims.

I think it would still probably be the three of us at elo but of course you’d be in a weaker position but Hopkirk’s analysis just isn’t supported by the facts and he’s just going to continue to be upset with me but I’m an extremely logical person and emotional displays don’t just make that all disappear, though it does make it harder and then there’s the fact that I feel manipulated by Hopkirk and not you. I should be persuaded by him being right not by his being upset with me. Frustration by itself is just nai. I think if he was in my position, he’d agree with my points but because that’s obviously not the case he can’t. Town!him had brilliant reads in Royalty that were totally based in logic and I think he realizes that I’m making logical sense though he’s trying to convince me otherwise.

[Hopkirk]

'I think if he was in my position, he’d agree with my points'

If you refuse to accept any reasoning is valid accept yours then why are you dragging this out. Everything I say is going to be irrelevant since you're taking the stance that 'Hopkirk disagreeing with my stances is bad' when your main stance is 'Hopkirk is bad.'

[Loki Dokie]

Hopkirk I read your Pooky case from TM and yeah, that’s classic scum!Pooky with the whole pulling at your heartstrings thing but yes, it’s his/Emily’s PLAY I’m tr. All the AtE in the world won’t ever substitute for town indicative play and I also thought Robert was making genuine reads as opposed to confibiasing ones.

The fact is that a bus from you makes way more sense since we shared a PT and you had a great deal of influence over me.

Also you complained a lot about the playerlist and. blamed that on your unhappiness with this game, which I totally believed but I also know you intensely dislike playing scum as well and you have been far more active in elo since it became obvious that I was leaning to hammer you over Pooky. You have been pretty much coasting through this game. Where are the multiple readslists from DC and Royalty? Instead of expressing strong opinions, you have just seemed disengaged. I have probably been overly influenced by your posting in our hood because you’ve done far more there than in the main thread.

It’s one thing for you to trust that I’m town but when do you just autosheep anyone as town? You debated reads in both DC and Royalty, you didn’t just passvely sheep.

[Loki Dokie]

'I think if he was in my position, he’d agree with my points'

If you refuse to accept any reasoning is valid accept yours then why are you dragging this out. Everything I say is going to be irrelevant since you're taking the stance that 'Hopkirk disagreeing with my stances is bad' when your main stance is 'Hopkirk is bad.'

You’re entire reasoning for why Emily is scum doesn’t really make sense to me. Yes, I disagree with it and I withessee scum!Pooky rescue his buddy SS from almost certain death and convince Peta to nuke mena instead. He is extremely good at that and why wouldn’t he try that with Flow who was in a much stronger position at the time he hammered him than SS was in PYP.

So yes, I am extremely familiar with Pooky’s scum meta now where as in Menagerie I hadn’t ever encountered it before then.

You’re also insisting that he’s been making all of these self pitying type posts and I haven’t seen that either. He has to do that when scum because he has nothing else to fall back on.

[Hopkirk]

Atm it feels like you're trying to justify why you're voting me in he situation where you're wrong, buy are confident you're right. I don't care about the outcome, so if that's the case (you're say 80% confident) then I'd much prefer you hammer now

I don't see what you're TRing from Emily. It all seems to be ATE with the absence of literally anything else. I don't think you ever addressed the stuff I disliked about Robert. Self hammers very much annoy me. I've been active in elo for fairly obvious reasons. I sheeped a lot in hectic Vs FL, and any games I've played with hectic

[Hopkirk]

If you're saying Emily isn't being self pittying here then self pittying is a bad/misleading way of phrasing it and you need to think of a better one. If you've got a different definition then let me know