Mini Normal 2223 | Town Wins!

[ssbm_Kyouko]

With an inactive N_M as the second scum, the Roden kill was a solo project. It makes no sense for me to have killed Roden, and it does make sense for Math to have done it

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think you're trying to manipulate me into voting Titus with the leading questions tbh. I dont know if it's scum or controlling town though.
Titus, or anyone else with mathblade experience: is this something he tries as town? To "lead a horse to water", as it were, and dichotomize the horse based on whether they drink?

To be clear I have about a billion (hyperbole) scum games.
I am sure if someone wanted to paint me as scum that does a certain thing they could.
When I am scum (again not here), I manipulate the gamestate not people. Townies become scum more than I ever would. In the linked game I had Xlos and DGB were my puppets doing the scummy things I couldn’t. I don’t outright manipulate here. It’s why as scum I am almost never wagoned because I am honest and truthful to a fault and nothing is off limits and I consistently try to bring scum and town meta in alignment to avoid trust tells.

This is the only reply to my 1318, not even Titus replies. Dwlee do you remember this interaction, or do you want quotes of it? I think it's the most concretely scummy thing that pinged me about Math in this game. Most of the other reasons to SR him are contextual I think, but this was an interaction that really bothered me that went largely unnoticed by everyone else, which is evidenced by the fact 1318 got no other replies, but Math replies in a kind of preemptively defensive way. "I'm sure if someone wanted to paint me as scum that does x they could"

Going to sleep

[MathBlade]

My theory is that she knows Roden or she has to be the top dog so getting me and Koba to fight gives her space but that didn’t happen. I don’t know her enough to know which this is

I never tried to get you and Koba to fight so this is just made up. I also had no reason to be threatened by Roden if I was scum. Look at his reads. He trusted me, and he sheeped me.

That’s what you tried to do with the Roden kill.

That’s literally my point.

It wasn’t a fear kill it was a strategic one.

[MathBlade]

I think you're trying to manipulate me into voting Titus with the leading questions tbh. I dont know if it's scum or controlling town though.
Titus, or anyone else with mathblade experience: is this something he tries as town? To "lead a horse to water", as it were, and dichotomize the horse based on whether they drink?

To be clear I have about a billion (hyperbole) scum games.
I am sure if someone wanted to paint me as scum that does a certain thing they could.
When I am scum (again not here), I manipulate the gamestate not people. Townies become scum more than I ever would. In the linked game I had Xlos and DGB were my puppets doing the scummy things I couldn’t. I don’t outright manipulate here. It’s why as scum I am almost never wagoned because I am honest and truthful to a fault and nothing is off limits and I consistently try to bring scum and town meta in alignment to avoid trust tells.

This is the only reply to my 1318, not even Titus replies. Dwlee do you remember this interaction, or do you want quotes of it? I think it's the most concretely scummy thing that pinged me about Math in this game. Most of the other reasons to SR him are contextual I think, but this was an interaction that really bothered me that went largely unnoticed by everyone else, which is evidenced by the fact 1318 got no other replies, but Math replies in a kind of preemptively defensive way. "I'm sure if someone wanted to paint me as scum that does x they could"

Going to sleep

No one replied because people either A> Knew my scum game and knew what I said was right or B> had no idea as they didn’t know me. There’s no defensiveness there just truth.

Want to say I am passive scum? There’s a game for that.
Active scum? There’s a game for that.
Love bussing? There’s a game for that.
Hate bussing? There’s a game for that.

It doesn’t bother anyone when it’s true and I am speaking truth.

[MathBlade]

Way too late for D2 will pick it up tomorrow.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My theory is that she knows Roden or she has to be the top dog so getting me and Koba to fight gives her space but that didn’t happen. I don’t know her enough to know which this is

I never tried to get you and Koba to fight so this is just made up. I also had no reason to be threatened by Roden if I was scum. Look at his reads. He trusted me, and he sheeped me.

That’s what you tried to do with the Roden kill.

That’s literally my point.

It wasn’t a fear kill it was a strategic one.

how does killing Roden lead to you and omo fighting? Was he mediating you two or something?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

testing something

[MathBlade]

My theory is that she knows Roden or she has to be the top dog so getting me and Koba to fight gives her space but that didn’t happen. I don’t know her enough to know which this is

I never tried to get you and Koba to fight so this is just made up. I also had no reason to be threatened by Roden if I was scum. Look at his reads. He trusted me, and he sheeped me.

That’s what you tried to do with the Roden kill.

That’s literally my point.

It wasn’t a fear kill it was a strategic one.

how does killing Roden lead to you and omo fighting? Was he mediating you two or something?

Killing Roden leads to us fighting because Roden said me and omo was either SvT or TvS. If someone pointed that out that causes us to fight. A strategic kill is one that manipulates the gamestate.

[MathBlade]

With an inactive N_M as the second scum, the Roden kill was a solo project. It makes no sense for me to have killed Roden, and it does make sense for Math to have done it

You say “no reason” but that’s exactly why you did it.

I agree it was mostly a solo game so you needed a kill that gets other people suspected.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My theory is that she knows Roden or she has to be the top dog so getting me and Koba to fight gives her space but that didn’t happen. I don’t know her enough to know which this is

I never tried to get you and Koba to fight so this is just made up. I also had no reason to be threatened by Roden if I was scum. Look at his reads. He trusted me, and he sheeped me.

That’s what you tried to do with the Roden kill.

That’s literally my point.

It wasn’t a fear kill it was a strategic one.

how does killing Roden lead to you and omo fighting? Was he mediating you two or something?

Killing Roden leads to us fighting because Roden said me and omo was either SvT or TvS. If someone pointed that out that causes us to fight. A strategic kill is one that manipulates the gamestate.

Did I or N_M point out that Roden was calling you and omo TvS? I dont recall him saying that. Sounds like you're revealing why you would kill Roden tbh

[MathBlade]

My theory is that she knows Roden or she has to be the top dog so getting me and Koba to fight gives her space but that didn’t happen. I don’t know her enough to know which this is

I never tried to get you and Koba to fight so this is just made up. I also had no reason to be threatened by Roden if I was scum. Look at his reads. He trusted me, and he sheeped me.

That’s what you tried to do with the Roden kill.

That’s literally my point.

It wasn’t a fear kill it was a strategic one.

how does killing Roden lead to you and omo fighting? Was he mediating you two or something?

Killing Roden leads to us fighting because Roden said me and omo was either SvT or TvS. If someone pointed that out that causes us to fight. A strategic kill is one that manipulates the gamestate.

Did I or N_M point out that Roden was calling you and omo TvS? I dont recall him saying that. Sounds like you're revealing why you would kill Roden tbh

A smart scum wouldn’t. You sit and wait and see if someone else brings it up then you can join either side if it looks like it will gain steam. I don’t remember whether you did or not and I have to get to work. Roden did say we were TvS or SvT and that’s why he is a good strategic kill for a scum like you.

[MathBlade]

I hate when people say im not solving when clearly i am but in my own way of poking and prodding people for alignment tells lmfao

Not to clear myself, but that might imply uninformed majority if people can't tell if you're solving or not.

anything change since you posted that BTW?

Math jumped up to Null. I think you and Math could be TvS though.

Dwlee and Salsabil swapped places as well. I'll have to reread ISOs but Salsabil's posts have occasionally pinged me when catching up on posts but never enough to keep my attention. And Dwlee really does just feel like flailing town, especially with the weird tunnel on Titus.

Here

[ssbm_Kyouko]

targeting babysitter is dangerous no matter what and im of the belief mafia missed my soft

It seems that way but it could easily be scum that

ignored

your crumb to make it appear that they missed it.

Missed the crumb:
{Max (newb), Salsa (English as a second language), Not_Mafia (not_reading)}

Ignored the crumb:
{Dwlee, omo, Titus, MathBlade}

Marci/Geraint, I don't feel confident putting them in either category. Either way, I think if one scum missed the crumb they both did.

pedit: these wagons are giving me the spooks. omo and dwlee voting together, and Max and Salsa voting together, cross-voting
TvS wagons I think.
UNVOTE:

I agree with like 90% of your prior wall post. I still think if there is a deep wolf they could kill Roden here. Saying more or why stops what I am hunting for.

This post however I find very “off”.

I don’t really think there should be a “missed” or “ignored” category.

Assume Faria is scum. Their buddy could have seen the crumb and interacted with it and then Faria posts asking what a Friendly Neighbor is.

Two, assume I am scum (incorrectly) you can’t seriously tell me that I would be in the ignore column when I have a post telling Titus who claimed babysitter to look at post 45 (which has town buddies -> common FN crumb, page 40 the “friendly” and page 41 where I post a WWF video that has protecting Manatees midway through. Like you could argue I am in the ignore category but you really would need a third category for deliberate manipulation here.

Three, the more I think about it the more I don’t like this sort at all. We don’t know who the scum are or what they are thinking yet.

Using the Roden kill I could paint almost anyone as scum.

But I think we learn more from who scum push.

Four, why are these wagons that stalled TvS yet you’re treating the D1 wagons with Marci and Manatee as TvT?

Fifth, I am pretty unsatisfied with your answer. You seem like a deep player. I get gut vibes Titus is town but a lot better argument Titus is scum is that she argued protecting Manatee was about day claim yet she says she saw the FN crumbs after I pointed them out and was “taking a risk” making her answer about day play wrong or her answers about the video are wrong.

Maybe this is why Roden died?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I haven't quoted 886 in my ISO at all btw

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I haven't quoted 886 in my ISO at all btw

Unless it's inside a spoiler tag, I can check that

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And it's not inside a spoiler either

[MathBlade]

You don’t have to quote it like I said earlier.

That’s the brilliance of a good scum. You kill to make towns do what you want.

Indirect manipulation is a powerful force. You didn’t luck out on it happening but you did take out a top tier town.

Once I was right and the day indicated a deep wolf I became a problem for you which you couldn’t kill so you had to misdirect me.

[MathBlade]

And yes I can paint almost anyone as scum for anything. That’s just generically true because of how much I have played scum and been scum. It’s a reason 1313 is so ewww you literally scumslipped that you ignored Manatee/Titus and shot Roden then never pursued that line of thought ever again.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I pr hunt as scum, you can open any pt I've played scum in and see it

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Other motivations for the kill always come secondary to me

[MathBlade]

You did here, quite blatantly. You just didn’t kill them when you found them.

[MathBlade]

I gotta clock in now

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Nah what I mean is, my kill choice is motivated by pr hunting. I hunt for crumbs as both alignments. One of my biggest weaknesses as town is putting too much stock into something I think is a crumb. Leads me to.incorrectly TR scum sometimes so I'm trying to be conscious of that.

targeting babysitter is dangerous no matter what and im of the belief mafia missed my soft

It seems that way but it could easily be scum that

ignored

your crumb to make it appear that they missed it.

Missed the crumb:
{Max (newb), Salsa (English as a second language), Not_Mafia (not_reading)}

Ignored the crumb:
{Dwlee, omo, Titus, MathBlade}

Marci/Geraint, I don't feel confident putting them in either category. Either way, I think if one scum missed the crumb they both did.

pedit: these wagons are giving me the spooks. omo and dwlee voting together, and Max and Salsa voting together, cross-voting
TvS wagons I think.
UNVOTE:

There's no slip here, and this isn't the only time I bring this theory up. I come back to it many times, it even ties into the conclusion that the Roden kill was a solo decision.

If anything your response was a scumslip, let me grab it

[ssbm_Kyouko]

targeting babysitter is dangerous no matter what and im of the belief mafia missed my soft

It seems that way but it could easily be scum that

ignored

your crumb to make it appear that they missed it.

Missed the crumb:
{Max (newb), Salsa (English as a second language), Not_Mafia (not_reading)}

Ignored the crumb:
{Dwlee, omo, Titus, MathBlade}

Marci/Geraint, I don't feel confident putting them in either category. Either way, I think if one scum missed the crumb they both did.

pedit: these wagons are giving me the spooks. omo and dwlee voting together, and Max and Salsa voting together, cross-voting
TvS wagons I think.
UNVOTE:

I agree with like 90% of your prior wall post. I still think if there is a deep wolf they could kill Roden here. Saying more or why stops what I am hunting for.

This post however I find very “off”.

I don’t really think there should be a “missed” or “ignored” category.

Assume Faria is scum. Their buddy could have seen the crumb and interacted with it and then Faria posts asking what a Friendly Neighbor is.

Two, assume I am scum (incorrectly) you can’t seriously tell me that I would be in the ignore column when I have a post telling Titus who claimed babysitter to look at post 45 (which has town buddies -> common FN crumb, page 40 the “friendly” and page 41 where I post a WWF video that has protecting Manatees midway through.

Like you could argue I am in the ignore category but you really would need a third category for deliberate manipulation here.

Three, the more I think about it the more I don’t like this sort at all. We don’t know who the scum are or what they are thinking yet. Using the Roden kill I could paint almost anyone as scum. But I think we learn more from who scum push.

Four, why are these wagons that stalled TvS yet you’re treating the D1 wagons with Marci and Manatee as TvT?

Fifth, I am pretty unsatisfied with your answer. You seem like a deep player. I get gut vibes Titus is town but a lot better argument Titus is scum is that she argued protecting Manatee was about day claim yet she says she saw the FN crumbs after I pointed them out and was “taking a risk” making her answer about day play wrong or her answers about the video are wrong.

In point two of the response, this may be you slipping that you neither ignored nor missed the crumb, rather you deliberately manipulated. Thing is, "ignored" was the deliberate manipulation, but because you were focused on the crumb when deciding who to kill, you point out that if you were in one of the categories it would have to be a third one for deliberate manipulation

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like it's clear from a town POV that ignored meant "saw the crumb, but didnt act on it", but because your kill decision was centered on the crumbs, you felt that ignored was the wrong word